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VR not a focus of Project Scarlett, says Phil Spencer

Shmunter

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Aug 25, 2018
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Nobody expects MS to develop their own VR solution. For Sony it was a logic step, they already make sensors, cameras and screens, the amount of R&D was much less.
MS just needs to support one or more existing VR solutions and allow devs to port their games to the new console. Launching Xbox Two (or whatever) with a "Compatible with Oculus Rift models x/y" would already be a win over Sony that is only releasing PSVR2 in 2021 or after.
The only potential issue is that valve and oculus don’t make money on the hardware, it’s having their stores that tax 30% on each game sold what counts.

How does that fit in with the Xbox store??
 

Flintty

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Vr is a nice thing, very nice. Truly the next big step. Technically it is not good yet. Big glasses, maybe cables. You need a very strong hardware.

I see it in ten years.. When you can get 4k native on both eyes with 90-120fps with all bells and whistles.

This in a very comfortable piece of hardware without cables priced around 150 bucks....

... Maybe 15 years...
I don’t buy that. It comes down to the old 60fps argument. We did that generations ago but it is hard to maintain when modern processing power is used to make things more pretty. 15 years from now we will absolutely have the compute to make today’s games run 4K 120fps in VR. But try getting a new VR game in 15 years to run at that benchmark with all setting dialled up and you’ll be disappointed.

Case in point, NMS on Rift S is a fantastic experience but I need to dial the settings back a bit to get it to run perfect. This will likely be the case with games in 15 years time, unless they make it not so pretty.

Am I making sense? It sounded right in my head.
 
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Ar¢tos

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The only potential issue is that valve and oculus don’t make money on the hardware, it’s having their stores that tax 30% on each game sold what counts.

How does that fit in with the Xbox store??
Yeah, I guess the manufacturers not wanting to make a deal with MS is probably the main reason. I'm sure MS would want a slice of the VR pie too if it was easy. At the moment, it's easy to understand MS not wanting to invest in their own VR tech.
 

blly155

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i don't know if VR will ever replace controllers + a TV but i really do hope it sticks around.

VR has still got a way to go in terms of both hardware and software but it adds a completely new experience.

i'm not saying it should become the default way to play games but i think they are making a huge mistake by not investing in VR.
 

Flintty

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Yeah, I guess the manufacturers not wanting to make a deal with MS is probably the main reason. I'm sure MS would want a slice of the VR pie too if it was easy. At the moment, it's easy to understand MS not wanting to invest in their own VR tech.
Perhaps the biggest blocker getting something like the Rift on Xbox is the Rift Store. Facebook probably want to run it as it’s own app on its own terms. I’m speculating.
 

Ar¢tos

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i don't know if VR will ever replace controllers + a TV but i really do hope it sticks around.

VR has still got a way to go in terms of both hardware and software but it adds a completely new experience.

i'm not saying it should become the default way to play games but i think they are making a huge mistake by not investing in VR.
I don't think it will ever replace flat TV gaming, nor it intends to.
It's a complement to normal gaming.
 

Wonko_C

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I don’t buy that. It comes down to the old 60fps argument. We did that generations ago but it is hard to maintain when modern processing power is used to make things more pretty. 15 years from now we will absolutely have the compute to make today’s games run 4K 120fps in VR. But try getting a new VR game in 15 years to run at that benchmark with all setting dialled up and you’ll be disappointed.

Case in point, NMS on Rift S is a fantastic experience but I need to dial the settings back a bit to get it to run perfect. This will likely be the case with games in 15 years time, unless they make it not so pretty.

Am I making sense? It sounded right in my head.
Yes, VR has heavier requirements, there's work on changing that:

 

Vawn

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So anyone who doesnt like VR either has never tried it, or is poor?. Nice to see your drive by trolling has improved with age.
The vast majority of naysayers have not spent any significant amount of time with VR. And the main reason is the high costs involved to give it a chance.

You don't have to be poor to not have the kind of money to spend to try something new and completely unproven to you personally.
 

lukilladog

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The vast majority of naysayers have not spent any significant amount of time with VR. And the main reason is the high costs involved to give it a chance.

You don't have to be poor to not have the kind of money to spend to try something new and completely unproven to you personally.
That´s like saying you can´t make arguments against drugs just because you have not given them an opportunity. Are you addict to VR?.
 
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lukilladog

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Do you want to try again? I can't imagine you read this and don't realize how stupid of an analogy that was.
It´s not, you are basically saying that you need to experience the thing in order to criticize it fairly.
 

Elenchus

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Today I give thanks for all the AAA 1st party games Sony has made for PSVR and all the dedicated VR studios Sony has making even more AAA VR games. Thanks also for following through on all that post launch support you promised for Riggs! Gamers are marveling at all those free maps even as we speak!

 

Vawn

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It´s not, you are basically saying that you need to experience the thing in order to criticize it fairly.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm sorry this isn't obvious.

Comparing it to something like drugs which is highly addictive and can ruin people's lives is a stupid comparison. I'm sure there are hardcore drugs that are really fun. I can't tell you personally, I don't do them.

I haven't seen anyone OD on VR or become dependent on it to the point where their life has been ruined. If you think that's a real possibility, then, yes stay far away.
 

Vawn

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Today I give thanks for all the AAA 1st party games Sony has made for PSVR and all the dedicated VR studios Sony has making even more AAA VR games. Thanks also for following through on all that post launch support you promised for Riggs! Gamers are marveling at all those free maps even as we speak!

Blood and Truth, Concrete Genie and Everybody's Golf all came out this year.

I do wish we had more PSVR games, but there all still games being released, even as the gen winds down.

Hopefully PSVR 2.0 launches with Astrobot 2.
 
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Freedom Gate Co.

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Havent all the VR sets combined not been able to sell more than 8 million units despite all these years of hyped up marketing and retail demos?

I mean, PSVR was only able to sell 4 million with years of demos, marketing, price cuts, and giveaways. This is a console with a 100million units sold.

Then after that who's next? Samsung with just over a million despite being relatively dirt cheap?

Xbox has the user base, soon to sell 50 million, the issue is VR was a flop and everyone said this before but all the people who fell for the hype insulted or dismissed us.

VR as of now is just a niche product, the initial enthusiasm was gone years ago, how many Xbox scarletts in 2020 and 2021 would VR move if MS spend millions in R&D and marketing to be competitive?

It's time to admit years later that VR is and was a fad that's now slowly dying outside a niche enthusiast base.

I mean it's nice that there are options for those that want it, but we dont need new players unless someone found a way to put VR in a pair of sun glasses. It's like movie 3D, short term appeal and not enough quality content to keep it going so people grow disinterested overtime. There's a reason why people kept exaggerating Astro Bots quality.

I think AR or AR/VR hybrids like Hololens will be the future 10+ years from now anyway. Stand alone VR likely won't be a thing then.
 
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Freedom Gate Co.

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The vast majority of naysayers have not spent any significant amount of time with VR. And the main reason is the high costs involved to give it a chance.

You don't have to be poor to not have the kind of money to spend to try something new and completely unproven to you personally.
VR as of right now is nearly dead, the old excuses need not apply, it's barely selling.

Even dirt cheap mobile VR is dead, all VR combined likely havent sold 8 million combined, maybe less, and theres a lot of them.
 
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SleepDoctor

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Havent all the VR sets combined not been able to sell more than 8 million units despite all these years of hyped up marketing and retail demos?

I mean, PSVR was only able to sell 4 million with years of demos, marketing, price cuts, and giveaways. This is a console with a 100million units sold.

Then after that who's next? Samsung with just over a million despite being relatively dirt cheap?

Xbox has the user base, soon to sell 50 million, the issue is VR was a flop and everyone said this before but all the people who fell for the hype insulted or dismissed us.

VR as of now is just a niche product, the initial enthusiasm was gone years ago, how many Xbox scarletts in 2020 and 2021 would VR move if MS spend millions in R&D and marketing to be competitive?

It's time to admit years later that VR is and was a fad that's now slowly dying outside a niche enthusiast base.

I mean it's nice that there are options for those that want it, but we dont need new players unless someone found a way to put VR in a pair of sun glasses. It's like movie 3D, short term appeal and not enough quality content to keep it going so people grow disinterested overtime. There's a reason why people kept exaggerating Astro Bots quality.

I think AR or AR/VR hybrids like Hololens will be the future 10+ years from now anyway. Stand alone VR likely won't be a thing then.

Yet by fanboy logic, its cuz ppl are too poor to afford vr.


So outta 100 million consoles, only 4 million bought into vr. So that means 96 million ppl are too poor to buy vr lol. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

Vawn

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VR as of right now is nearly dead, the old excuses need not apply, it's barely selling.

Even dirt cheap mobile VR is dead, all VR combined likely havent sold 8 million combined, maybe less, and theres a lot of them.
That's weird seeing as Sony has stated PSVR has surpassed original expectations and is fixing to launch PSVR 2.0 for next generation.

That's weird since VR technology just got Valve to resurrect Half-Life in a new AAA game.

It is also weird we are seeing some of the best games continue to come out pushing the platform such as Blood and Truth, Asgard's Wrath, Concrete Genie, etc.

Of course, I'm talking to Freedom Gate Co. here....
 

Blam

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Yeah. Even as someone who support VR, Xbox is not in a position to spend resources on virtual reality right now. They need a stable user base first.
It sucks that the VR is already been built into The X and was a thing they wanted to support for Scorpio and above.
 

magnumpy

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Virtual reality is either an important, transformative technology or a niche innovation that’s destined to be subsumed into “mixed reality” — no one’s quite sure yet. But two of the industry’s biggest players are now taking opposing positions on the subject, as executives from Microsoft and Sony have shared thoughts on whether users are actually interested in VR, and fans are weighing in with their own views.

The flashpoint was a comment from Microsoft’s Xbox chief Phil Spencer, who reportedly downplayed VR as an “isolating” experience, and said that “nobody’s asking for VR” — at least, from his customer base. “The vast majority of our customers know if they want a VR experience, there’s places to go get those,” he explained, though he also said “nobody’s selling millions and millions” of VR headsets. For these reasons, the company isn’t planning to support VR on its next Xbox console, codenamed Project Scarlett.
 
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Pallas

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Disappointed since I feel like Microsoft could give that big extra push that VR really needs to break open from just being niche gaming platform but the Windows mix reality headsets shows that they see something in it

I wouldnt be surprised at all to learn PS VR outsold Xbox one this year world wide. Seriously
Has PSVR sold more than the Wii U?

I'm not sure why posters are comparing Vr and Kinect?

Kinect:

  • Cash grab to bring in some of the Wii-Pie
  • No games, almost literally, came out for Kinect, not even a Time Crisis or House of the Dead copy
  • Studios butchered and forced to make what little content there was for it (Fable: on rails)
  • Technology didn't work, objectively and most of the showings at E3 were rehearsed, not using a live Kinect
  • Didn't work with black people
  • Required a large open space and didn't offer sitting down experiences
  • A spy device, always listening, always watching
  • Borked the Xbox One due to required connectivity at all times
  • Gamers didn't want, it was forced on them, escpecially with the launch of the Xbox One
Vr:

  • Optional peripheral
  • 1000's of games, mods and educational software available, often free (Go fly around the solar system in VR)
  • Studios free to add VR or not (No Man's Sky)
  • Technology can cause nausea, sea-sickness in a minority set of cases.
  • Works with black people, doesn't work with blind people
  • Some games require a large space, some require motion tracking. The majority offer sofa play with a controller
  • Not a spy device
  • Helped PS4 sell more consoles and games
  • Gamers want it as an option.
Apples and oranges if you ask me.

I expect Microsoft to be watching HR:Alyx and PSVR2 very closely. They will grab a piece of that VR pie if the pie gets large enough
I think they are wary since VR hasn’t taken that large leap into mass marketing yet, despite PSVR, it’s still a expensive piece of technology for most, and add in other deliberating reasons(like motion sickness) but things seems to be getting better as technology improves and becomes cheaper!

Real innovators don't wait for the market to be begging for something before you do it. If you believe in the product or vision, you make it happen and then wait for the consumers to "buy" in. Steve Jobs didn't wait until the world was begging for an iPad. They just made it. Same for smart watches.
I agree that they should jump in now, but saying they aren’t real innovators because they aren’t at the forefront of VR is silly. I consider Azure pretty innovating and a very lucrative market. VR is innovating but not very lucrative


VR >>>>>>>>>>> Streaming

Phil showing his true self, full of shit.
lol Did Phil shit in your cornflakes again?
 

JustP_Gaming

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He said a while ago that MS wouldn’t pursue it for consoles until it was fully wireless and I still think that’s the right call.

It just too much work for the average consumer to set up and maintain as it stands. Whether it dies (for the 3rd time in my lifetime) or continues to grow is going to be wholly dependent on what leaps they make with the tech and what developers show they can actually do with it.
I wonder how far away we are from a wireless headset that makes sense price wise?
 

nikolino840

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Blood and Truth, Concrete Genie and Everybody's Golf all came out this year.

I do wish we had more PSVR games, but there all still games being released, even as the gen winds down.

Hopefully PSVR 2.0 launches with Astrobot 2.
Do you really care if Xbox Scarlett have or not the VR?
That day that they add the VR you have to buy Scarlet then...if this Is the only big loss of Scarlett
 

Shmunter

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It sucks that the VR is already been built into The X and was a thing they wanted to support for Scorpio and above.
In all honesty VR could never come to Scorpio if it could not run on base Xbox one. The install base would not support it.

With a new gen however there is a big reset button. However again, Sony will enter with a massive VR library from PS4 compatibility, vs MS starting from 0.
 
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Vawn

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Do you really care if Xbox Scarlett have or not the VR?
That day that they add the VR you have to buy Scarlet then...if this Is the only big loss of Scarlett
I don't care. But, Scarlett doesn't need VR for me to bite, it needs games. I bought Xbox One near launch assuming the games had to come eventually. I learned my lesson.

Now if Scarlett had VR AND great VR exclusives, I'd have to jump in.
 
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Shame because having a VR option is definitely better than no option at all Phil. It doesn't have to be the main focus, just having it opens up more options for players.

Sony has done pretty well with PSVR, considering the smaller market for it and their VR game attach rate is really good, so they are making money, a reason why they are continuing to support VR on PS5.

PSVR also didn't take Sony's focus away from their big AAA exclusives, so no reason why MS couldn't do both too.
 

SleepDoctor

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Shame because having a VR option is definitely better than no option at all Phil. It doesn't have to be the main focus, just having it opens up more options for players.

Sony has done pretty well with PSVR, considering the smaller market for it and their VR game attach rate is really good, so they are making money, a reason why they are continuing to support VR on PS5.

PSVR also didn't take Sony's focus away from their big AAA exclusives, so no reason why MS couldn't do both too.

Thing is I don't think they know how to focus on both. Look how they went about with kinect.

I'd rather nothing than us getting some half assed games for vr (it will probably take awhile before they release any decent games on it) and weak AAA focus.
 

Vawn

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Thing is I don't think they know how to focus on both. Look how they went about with kinect.

I'd rather nothing than us getting some half assed games for vr (it will probably take awhile before they release any decent games on it) and weak AAA focus.
Looking at their exclusives over the last ten years, I don't know see how not having VR has helped at all.
 

Mass Shift

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I'll say it again. Xbox gamers really aren't asking for this. It's just not high on their list of priorities.

I hear Xbox fans asking for Fable or even another Banjo before ever mentioning a VR headset.
 
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Larogue

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They could have started with Xbox one X by now. It's already powerful enough for VR.

Such a waste not allowing all that power for VR, like supporting Oculus Rift for example, if they are too cheap to develop their own thing.
 
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Mass Shift

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I expect Alyx to be playable on PS5 at some point, likely after psvr2 launch with new controllers . Valve isn't against consoles, and it would boost overall vr adaptation which is what Gabe wants.
Well I hope for the sake of those who really want to play this in the VR space that Valve does boot it over to PSVR for you. You might have to be patient though.
 
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Well I hope for the sake of those who really want to play this in the VR space that Valve does boot it over to PSVR for you. You might have to be patient though.
Not PSVR. PSVR2. The PSMove is inadequate for what Alyx needs. I am expecting PSVR2 to not be out for at least two years after PS5 launches.
 
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TBiddy

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One thing that MS fans seem to agree on, is the myth of the infinitely large war chest. That is why it became necessary to put down VR; because if MS has an infinitely large warchest, then there would have been no harm for Xbox to pursue both traditional gaming and VR.

The only way to justify MS not spending money on VR, is to claim that VR is worthless. Because the alternative is to admit that Xbox has a finite budget and can't afford to just spend their way out of trouble.
Not many companies like throwing good money after bad. Hence, even if your war chest is a lot bigger than your competitions (which is it, in this case), it would be a terrible business decision to spend a lot of money developing something that noone outside of a small niche gives a shit about.
 
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