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******* vs. David Jaffe - Meltdown
- Thread starter nerbo
- Start date
rollingstart
Banned
this whole story is hilarious
Madman said:
You're kidding, right? Just because Carmack and Wright don't post on GAF, doesn't mean they aren't open about their projects or open with the gaming community. Carmack has historically been one of the most open developers out there. Countless times Carmack has interacted with the gaming community through the development of the Quake games on Slashdot. Wright talks to the gaming community all the time about game design, his thoughts going forward vs what he's done in the past. There's other forums out there, you know.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Jaffe worked on Jet Moto too?!?! DAMN!!!
The problem here is videogames journalism that is very sucky and unprofessional.
What Joy.stick was impying in their article is completely ridiculous. It sounded like a proof they don't really understand how videogames are made and what is the reality of this industry. I understand why their name is banned from here. They've been stupidly judgmental toward Jaffe.
Now people reacting bad to that Jaffe answer or reporting this shit as a news (hello Wired!) are equally shamefull.
Jaffe is just a guy with a blog. It only happens that his job is making games. He can talk about whatever the hell he wants. His reaction there (while being a bit too intense maybe) is totally justified and we should all leave it at that.
I can't such stupidity are making videogame news. Videogames journalist should leave the community stuff aside and do their own thing. They read too much GAF, they read to many blogs and are creating stupidly useless sensationalism with a non-news.
This journalistic style also slowing the process of making this industry more respected and more mature.
What Joy.stick was impying in their article is completely ridiculous. It sounded like a proof they don't really understand how videogames are made and what is the reality of this industry. I understand why their name is banned from here. They've been stupidly judgmental toward Jaffe.
Now people reacting bad to that Jaffe answer or reporting this shit as a news (hello Wired!) are equally shamefull.
Jaffe is just a guy with a blog. It only happens that his job is making games. He can talk about whatever the hell he wants. His reaction there (while being a bit too intense maybe) is totally justified and we should all leave it at that.
I can't such stupidity are making videogame news. Videogames journalist should leave the community stuff aside and do their own thing. They read too much GAF, they read to many blogs and are creating stupidly useless sensationalism with a non-news.
This journalistic style also slowing the process of making this industry more respected and more mature.
bananabread said:
you might be used to be called little girl, but he might not appreciate it. Considering every other article that joycrap writes, i find it hard to believe that explanation.
Not to mention that crying like little girl has been taken from NeoGAF, which is just one of the reason joycrap will stay banned here...
FirstInHell
Banned
distrbnce said:
Profanity aside, do you think it is rational for a grown man to lose it and throw a tantrum when an internet website makes a comment about him?
Look at his blog. Is the profanity necessary? Every other word is profane. It reads as if it is written by a 10 year old who just learned the f-word.
I like the way he insults his focus testers because they do not know how to play his game
1:49- Moving to split screen...man tester #5 is a ****ing dolt!!! What the hell?!?! He is just driving in circles...not even playing the game...is that ****ing spit drooling out of his stupid ****ing mouth!?!?! Ahem,well...anyway....
Ranger X said:
Other parts of the entertainment industry have similar drama all the time. C'mon, Hollywood, anyone? How about the music industry with east coast vs west coast?
Joy.stick is a blog. Yes, they are cheese, yes they are unprofessional and yes, they are relentlessly in attack mode, but they are a gaming tabloid. People read it for the humor that goes with the posting. There's no shame in any of this - be it Jaffe, Joy.stick or Wired. It's drama. So what? Laugh about it. It's not like videogame news was any more mature before. Daily Radar anyone? GamePro?
nerbo said:
They aren't posting here. If everyone feels it's ok for all the devs to not post here and don't care aboput them doing that. then that's their choice. But Jaffe was one of the few major developers that come around here and actually try to keep in contact on a consistent basis. He was honest, straight forward, and tried to keep in contact with the community. Most other major developers don't and if they do, it tends ot be very cookie cutter remarks and responses.
Joy.stick has made a good living chumming the water with badly worded metaphors and ridiculous opinions.
Penny Arcade has bit before, hell GAF has bit many times, and now Jaffe goes sailing up onto the deck with a big hook in his mouth.
"Sensationalist blog causes lame controversy", our top story at 11.
Penny Arcade has bit before, hell GAF has bit many times, and now Jaffe goes sailing up onto the deck with a big hook in his mouth.
"Sensationalist blog causes lame controversy", our top story at 11.
bananabread
Member
Madman said:
It was a pretty poor analogy to choose, I'll give you that. They probably should have qualified the statement as well, although they probably didn't realise what sort of a reaction it would cause if people missed the point.
If they'd said "one of a kind Kratos action figure with over 48 phrases spoken by Mac Daddy Chad Wardenn" instead of "doll", and "auctioned off for millions of dollars" instead of "garage sale", the meaning would have remained exactly the same.
Beer Monkey
Member
Madman said:
That's cool, but he's still just another human being and when it comes right down to it, Jaffe receives the same treatment here that any other GAF poster would receive. What's unfair in that?
This is a fun gaming forum and all, but it isn't and never has been 'professional' by any means. I don't know what you expect.
FirstInHell said:
I don't see it as a tantrum, I see it as a response. Here he is doing something FOR THE FANS and they try to be cocksmears about it.
Who gives three shits of it's "necessary"? It's his personal ****ing blog and it certainly doesn't affect his games.
I like the way he talks like he's one of my friends.
You know, you're really acting like an old lady. (hey, just an analogy)
nerbo said:
I agree but i am of this point of view that we need to make an extra effort for videogames to at least reach the status of respect music and movies have. Videogames are having a greater image problem than those 2 other medias and this industry is young. Drama for fun about movies and music isn't as damageable as drama for fun about videogames in the mean that it keep our image problems in good shape...
I think that to say Jaffe is a genius is a bit of a stretch, twisted metal black? hell God of War is just absolutely fantastic, if you hadn't played Shenmue previously. I understand why people are bring in Dyackinto this, from reading here its like everyone has a real hard on for insulting someone who wants to have big ideas creating their game (oh noes ambitious ideas FTL, shut up and make it how i wants it NOOB) but has trouble articulating themselves in a way that they find acceptable. Jaffe comes across as a boor, anyone who applauds him for that whilst attacking Dyack when he might come across as over reaching and not necessarily grounded is unfair.
You are right. It would have been the same. Minus the whole insulting and character degrading part. They weren't trying to be philosophical. They were trying to be insulting.bananabread said:
Please, anyone trying to say that ******* (notice how I can't even say the name) was trying to be completely professional and phiosophical should really consider the source. They were trying to insult him. Not make some intelligent point with deep meaning.
:lol My "ownage" of you? You miss the point completely. I was just trying to figure out if the swearing is what really pissed you off. Now it's clear that you're really just mad because he's not a developer who's just a PR suit who never does anything outside of advertising the game.FirstInHell said:
Red Blaster
Member
a.wd said:
Lolz, Shenmue is unplayable guttertrash when compared to God Of War.
SolidSnakex
Member
a.wd said:
What does GoW even have to do with Shenmue. They're about as different as you can get.
Ranger X said:
The more the gaming industry has to worry and police it's own image, the more it will become like Hollywood. That's not a good thing.
If the gaming industry is reduced to worrying about damage control at every turn, it will never earn any respect. As with any medium, freedom of expression should be paramount, regardless of how crude it may be. How can one recognize game development as an art form and worry about it's image being acceptable? The idea has always been to push the boundaries further. The moment we do otherwise is the moment it starts to crash.
I like Jaffe, but Jaffe going "dark" (if he does) is a good thing. Right now, he's taking away from his own game. We talk about Jaffe more than we talk about Calling All Cars. This is not the way it should be. I'm not saying you can't get your face out there and show who you are to the industry.
What I am saying is, while you have a product you're getting ready to put out there and hope people buy, you need to promote the product and only your product. Don't fight with websites, don't do some of the shit he's done. Because when something ****s up, it'll all fall right on him and directly on him.
For example, release dates have been slipping all over for this game. Normally, people wouldn't say much. Happens all the time. No, we go right to him and blast the shit out of him. I'm guilty of it. The date kept slipping more and more. Since he put himself out there, I'm putting my target on him. It's his game, it's his fault. You said it would be this, it's not. So, what else will you say that's bullshit? They had to delay again for some issues a website found. Guess what? That's on him too. I'm not going to pat him on the back. The bugs he describes should have been found long before this. It goes on and on.
Then, when it's time to pony up the dough for the game. People will think twice. Not only will they be questionable about the game itself, they may not decide to buy the game simply because they don't like HIM. That is a problem.
I'll summarize with this. When TWO huge big budget games such as God of War and God of War 2 have had less drama in the industry than a little $10 game, something is wrong.
What I am saying is, while you have a product you're getting ready to put out there and hope people buy, you need to promote the product and only your product. Don't fight with websites, don't do some of the shit he's done. Because when something ****s up, it'll all fall right on him and directly on him.
For example, release dates have been slipping all over for this game. Normally, people wouldn't say much. Happens all the time. No, we go right to him and blast the shit out of him. I'm guilty of it. The date kept slipping more and more. Since he put himself out there, I'm putting my target on him. It's his game, it's his fault. You said it would be this, it's not. So, what else will you say that's bullshit? They had to delay again for some issues a website found. Guess what? That's on him too. I'm not going to pat him on the back. The bugs he describes should have been found long before this. It goes on and on.
Then, when it's time to pony up the dough for the game. People will think twice. Not only will they be questionable about the game itself, they may not decide to buy the game simply because they don't like HIM. That is a problem.
I'll summarize with this. When TWO huge big budget games such as God of War and God of War 2 have had less drama in the industry than a little $10 game, something is wrong.
nerbo said:
Movies had to fight for almost 50 years to be respected. We are not done yet with videogames. Anything to accelerate the process. Those stupid non-news surely aren't helping anything.
But about Joy.stick, i thought they were also the guys from the mag of the same name. If they are only knowned or respected as a blog only, i don't see it as really harmfull to anything. Wired reporting this all is useless though and only put blogs and forum on a level they shouldn't reach imo.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
SolidSnakex said:
Yeah, posters these days are just bonkers.
Ranger X said:
Joy.stiq is not related to the mag, it's an offshoot blog by the company that runs the Engadget blog.
I'd argue that the movie industry is losing respect at this point, if anything. People are sick of the MPAA's antics, a flawed and biased ratings system, greedy studios with over-reaching anti-piracy measures that don't work and make criminals out of innocents. Modeling the gaming industry's battles after the movie industries is just asking for hurt and eventual implosion
Sure, movies had to fight, but they also fought during far less open times than we live in now to release some of the pictures they did. The gaming industry has it easy by comparison. Now is not the time to pull in the reigns, it is the time to say screw that, we are going to make the games we want to make, however we want to make them, because it's our damned right to do so. Same applies to who and how we report on those games.
bananabread
Member
Madman said:
It was an incredibly poor choice to lead off with the analogy, absolutely no context or anything. "Like a little girl blah blah...David Jaffe" in the very first sentence is pretty horrible writing and it should have been fixed up in editing. I'm not denying that this is a bad article or that the site in question is a horrible site who basically troll the entire internet to get hits. What I'm saying is that the article, while poorly written, was not created with the intent to directly insult David Jaffe.
The little girl thing is a metaphor. This means it does not need to have any relation to the real world beyond the analogy it describes. The analogy in this case being that Jaffe loves CAC so much that he doesn't want to let go of it.
If they'd wanted to insult him they'd have just come out and said "Whiny little baby girl David Jaffe realised his crappy game wasn't good enough for release so he had to go back and try and make it marginally less crappy at the last minute. Also he is a little girl and you should all point and laugh at him".
I like the way Jaffe rolls. I like the fact that he swears as much as I do and that he doesn't bother with PR speak. It makes me feel like he understands where I'm coming from when I play his games. This latest case either smacks of a guy who is desperately insecure and immature or a guy who has deliberately established a persona as a way to garner publicity for his games. If it's the former then the guy needs to grow up and deal with his issues, because there are many things in the world more important than what some useless blog may or may not have indirectly implied about your masculinity.
If you were out with a group of friends and an outsider came up and started chatting and then jokingly mentioned that one of your friends had girly looking hair, and then that friend proceeded to go totally apeshit at the guy and start frothing at him, you'd probably be pretty freaked out. I'd like to think that most of us would just laugh the comment off or think up a witty comeback. Why is Jaffe getting applauded for the internet version of the violent lunatic here?
bananabread said:
Man, you are trying really ****ing hard but it just isn't working.
If your group of friends scenario took place I wouldn't expect "frothing", as none of my friends do that, but the response David Jaffe gave would definitely be acceptable and expected.
You're over-exaggerating his response, and downplaying *******'s insult. It's obvious and strange.
Ranger X said:
I don't see why people lately have been making this push to get respect for the videogames industry. I mean we should get rid of a bad image, created by sensationalist media outlets, but that's about it. What's in it for us? Seems to me the more notoriety the industry has gotten the worse the drama and all the shit that goes with it that we don't want. I think the craziest part about this is that if you ask a casual gamer if they even know who Jaffe is they'll probably say no. Casual gamers, not even normal people don't really know about this drama that explodes across blogs and forums. What's the big deal?
WasabiKing
Member
Might just give a $10 shot in the arm, don't you think? No, I'm not saying this is all intentional, but don't you think this publicity will garner some attention for a game?Kintaro said:
Same could be said for that website in particular. *puts on tinfoil hat*
bananabread said:
Do you really think that ******* was trying to not be insulting? They said Jaffe was a little girl and that his game was garage bin material. Sure, it can be spun to say that it was purely metaphorical and in no way they were trying to draw similarities or analogies between anything, but that's nothing but pure spin on the situation.
I'll just say I wouldn't laugh it off if someone called me a little girl. To me, that would be calling me a bitch and I would respond accordingly.
thanks said:
What?
The more your medium is respected, the greater your liberty of expression. This means publisher would take more risk and gaming would probably be better.
Videogames could also become a real "2 crowds" industry like movies and music.
Commercial shitty hollywood stuff one side, daring and more artistic game the other side.