A Link to the Past
Banned
We haven't seen what happens when billion dollar corporations pressure the police to give a shit, because the industry itself isn't giving a shit.
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Washington Post: horrifying trendy online-harassment tactic ruining careers (READ OP)
- Thread starter maxcriden
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We haven't seen what happens when billion dollar corporations pressure the police to give a shit, because the industry itself isn't giving a shit.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Reddit is notoriously awful about doing anything regarding harassment because they just dismiss it as "the right to free speech".
They have a subreddit that's literally photos of dead kids.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
So scary. I really feel sorry for her. How pathetic do you have to be to not only go after her but her family and all for fking videogames.
Schnozberry
Member
I'd like to see the major publishers and hardware companies publicly get together and denounce these people at E3. It would be a high profile moment for a joint statement forming an organization they all help manage and fund that helps victims of online harassment as a result of their work in the industry.
It would go a long way to show the GamerGate assholes that their tactics will not be tolerated and the victims have full industry support.
It would go a long way to show the GamerGate assholes that their tactics will not be tolerated and the victims have full industry support.
Starfish Hero
Member
Reddit's entire m.o. has been to let anything go until it hurts the bottom line. From child porn to white supremacy to harassment mobs to etc.
HowlingMad
Banned
How so? Nintendo fired her for what are now pretty obvious and understandable reasons. Plenty of people on this forum and in the gaming media jumped all over Nintendo despite not having the facts and are now doubling down rather than concede they were wrong.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That would be a real fuckin' moment. Get the CEOs of many of the major corporations together and outline an actual plan to stomp out groups like GG.
The harassment persisted for months, and got a second wind mainly because of decisions made by Nintendo. As such, Nintendo bears sole responsibility to deal with the harassment in an actual way, not by noting that like every company that isn't run by horrible people, it's anti-harassment. Nintendo fucked up royally, even if you agree that she should have been fired.
Well this is going to be hard to deal with. Harassment in the work place is easier to deal with because you can just get rid of that employee. This is something that doesn't have a magic button.
Stallion Dan
Member
That isn't going to work, because GG will just emerge with a new identity, what needs to stop is the caving in to mass complaints, which parties for pretty much any view are now using as a tactic.
The ones with radical views are easy to ignore, but anything else is pretty much caved in to. Companies and institutions need to stop trying put out a 100% perfect image at all costs and just ignore some complaints except in extreme cases. A single tweet shouldn't get someone kicked out of college or whatever.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
I am really disappointed at the lack of coverage from gaming sites like IGN, Gamespot etc.. Like these sites have the power to atleast make some sort of difference but not a single word...
Very disappointing.It would be so cool if these CEO's said "hey GG fktards stop buying our products. We dont want you as our customers". Now that would be ballsy and awesome.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Yes, we're wrong about thinking it's messed up for Nintendo to do absolutely nothing when one of their employees is getting harassed by a hate group, that pretty much none of the game industry has condemned one of the blackest marks on the community, and that the vitriol and invasions of privacy against her and her family is totally unwarranted.
I seriously wish this would happen because it would be an absolutely glorious and historical moment for the gaming community, and even tech/nerd stuff in general.
The law hasn't even caught up to something as dangerous as swatting. I'm not shocked that this hasn't been addressed yet.
RichiRamjag
Member
I feel the exact same way I did then.
And the site posting the rumors of the second job was exactly what I said would happen. Shameful that people would dig it up, shameful that it's being posted in this article. She obviously didn't want it known.
The comments on that article are horrid.
Gamergate has ways, I.E. Private emails, social media accounts, text messages, ets. etc.
Do you agree the harassment of Alison Rapp and her friends and family are bad.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's the thing though, it's not like this thing is landing in the industry's collective lap - Nintendo and other major publishers have been dodging this issue since it began, and it's only worked to allow the problem to persist.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I am really disappointed at the lack of coverage from gaming sites like IGN, Gamespot etc.. Like these sites have the power to atleast make some sort of difference but not a single word...
These are corporate entites that don't want to feel that anonmyous wrath. Spineless, but that's the coporate trap of these things.
Wickerbasket
Member
How do you stop assholes being assholes though? The anonymity of the internet has made it harder than ever to punish those responsible.
All the CEOs of every games company could condemn them and they'd still go about doing what they do.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
That because a sadly sizable part of their user base probably believe in this shit. Still doesn't make it right.I am really disappointed at the lack of coverage from gaming sites like IGN, Gamespot etc.. Like these sites have the power to atleast make some sort of difference but not a single word...
Their was a video on ign about female characters in a recent movie and comments were real terrible.
Wait (again I say everything in this thread as a person extremely unfamiliar with seeing gamergate do what they do), how is it a "hate" group?
If I understand, don't they just dig up details of her that are freely available on the Internet in an effort to "expose" them and get them in trouble?
I mean I know that it's rotten to do, but I'm not sure I would call that hate on the level of what a real hate group does (like KKK or something).
Elfforkusu
Member
.
People single out GamerGate for their bullshit, which I'm fine with, but when a homophobe gets internet mob'd out of a job that seems to be considered a victory for social justice. Similar tactics, similar results.
Mob justice ain't justice.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Anti-feminist bias, death threats and constant harrassment will do that.
Starfish Hero
Member
Which is why they should cross their fingers. If the harassers aren't being held accountable, nothing Nintendo would say or do will stop them. I'm not exactly counting on the police to be proactive here, but at the end of the day they are the ones who have the power to end this.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Not only do we know as a matter of fact that ignoring GG emboldens them to action, we have no evidence that condemnation doesn't work because no one ever tries to do it. GG may want to do horrible things, GG may be a group of horrible people, but these horrible people like to be able to pretend that they're good. Members of GG have IIRC donated in the six figures to charity, with the sole intention of creating good PR. Condemnation tells potential new members that they shouldn't join the group, and it tells the victims of the group - the people who most want to see GG condemned - that the industry is at least doing SOMETHING, even if it is lip service.
Ignoring all of that though, there are tons of things that the industry could do. Push anti-harassment laws, be more strict about harassment on their consoles/games, put money into creating diversity in the industry, and make a formal statement that terrorist threats will not be acknowledged or acted upon. I mean, you need to appreciate that condemnation of GG is not about "instantly and automatically stopping GG and everything it is doing", it's about ensuring that organizations like GG and the behaviour GG exhibits becomes officially and universally condemned, and it is about ensuring that female, LGBT, non-white, etc. gamers get to feel welcome in the industry. GG is a product of a permissive industry that was so afraid to say "no" to these gamers that they actually cater to them instead, like when EA banned women from a Battlefield 3 tournament because they were worried that the men would harass them.
Sure. The best thing anyone can do is honestly just make a statement against this. It'll be good for people to know they have the support of the company they work for, but other than that it does very little.
If EVERYONE in the industry came out and said something against GG and what is going on it makes for good optics and is "feel good moment" but GG won't be put off by that alone. Laws need to be created to help combat this stuff and so far the law is so far fucking behind regarding anything to do with the internet.
SolicitorPirate
Member
I feel the I should not have to point out the obvious that it is a Bad Thing to legitimise harassment tactics and create an unsafe environment for your staff, but I honestly can't tell anymore if people like you are just ignorant or trolling.
But since gamergate is apparently just a hashtag movement, how can you attribute some idiots making death threats/harassment as part of the movement itself? Maybe these are just idiots that people roll in to the agenda of gamergate to demonize them further?
Im just being a devils advocate, because I know I've been generalized before for being part of a group just because my opinion was similar to them
For the record, I think digging up people's dirty laundry is terrible because we all have it. Not fair at all, but at the same time I try to be rational in these conversations about who exactly is to blame. Blaming a hashtag movement just feels so vague to me and there's literally no way to combat it like that.
If someone makes a death threat, that specific person should be investigated and taken down for being a dick.
John Kowalski
Banned
It's an organized group that consistently engages in hostile behavior against specified individuals, how is it not a hate group?
Gamespot has made news stories talking about the harassment of people like Brianna Wu before. If a big mainstream media company or a big gaming news media site picks this story up Gamespot will probably post something about it eventually.
Chemtrails logic coupled with clear bigotry+fascism mixed with individuals incapable of empathy and perspective is an incredibly dangerous cocktail.
Then you concurrently have a shit heel games industry that doesn't have any respect or backbone at all and would rather throw their hard workers, especially women and minorities, under the bus than do something good for once.
And finally you have the "neutral" gamers who are just onlookers in their safe and comfortable status quo who think any change to the status quo should be put down or argued against, no matter how many people are harassed or terrorized.
That's quite the trifecta
Then you concurrently have a shit heel games industry that doesn't have any respect or backbone at all and would rather throw their hard workers, especially women and minorities, under the bus than do something good for once.
And finally you have the "neutral" gamers who are just onlookers in their safe and comfortable status quo who think any change to the status quo should be put down or argued against, no matter how many people are harassed or terrorized.
That's quite the trifecta
So, when are we going to get some real legislation and laws passed to curb this shit? The legal system is still in the Stone Age when it comes to the internet and it badly needs to be yanked forward into the 21st century.
Online Harassment Campaigns need to have some serious legal consequences to them for those involved, including real jail time. SWATing needs to be treated as Attempted Murder (given the dangerous state of Police forces in the US).
Are we going to have to have a spree of suicides before shit gets done? Is someone going to have to be killed by a SWAT team? How many people? 1? 5? 50? 100?
Online Harassment Campaigns need to have some serious legal consequences to them for those involved, including real jail time. SWATing needs to be treated as Attempted Murder (given the dangerous state of Police forces in the US).
Are we going to have to have a spree of suicides before shit gets done? Is someone going to have to be killed by a SWAT team? How many people? 1? 5? 50? 100?
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Part of the problem is beyond assholes, but the people who are neutral, apathetic, or easily-swayed.
GG became big at least partially because the "ethics in journalism" angle swayed a lot of naive, non-malicious people who either didn't care so much or genuinely thought they were doing something good.
It's often the flexible fence-sitters, the ones who seem like "a regular person like you and me" who are some of the most influential in a community. If a large portion of this crowd can now recognize, "yeah, we shouldn't stand for this as a community", then that creates subtle shifts in the structure as a whole.
It's kinda like the concept of microaggressions, when unsavoury aspects of society are reinforced so often that they become normalized. Reducing them helps people recognize that these things they take for granted are wrong.
You have a lot of research about GG to do. They started in order to torment and dox a female developer based entirely on something that didn't happen. Then they moved onto other targets.
They've forced multiple people out of their homes and as you can see by this thread, they have forced one to lose her job and now are targeting her family.
Maybe you don't consider that action extreme enough to be "hate", but it's sure not justified or heroic. Especially when the only reason it happens is because they have a vendetta against someone for daring to be feminist online.
The only way they stop 'em - pool their money towards a task force, charged with providing the FBI with evidence linking GG'ers to crimes. Harassment's a given, hacking where appropriate. Due to GG's decentralized nature, they'd need a lot of manpower to take out a lot of people. And that's in addition to a judicial system that understands and prosecutes online harassment, assuming the people they find are in the US in the first place.
If there's a way to stop GG (or online harassment in general) while retaining a free internet, it'll take a much smarter man than I to find it.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Sure you do.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
Sad but true. Terrible situation all around. I think she should just delete her social media accounts. I know people might say she should not cower down etc.. but I think its a blessing in disguise. Nothing good comes out of Social Media these days any ways with racists, misogynists etc.. just trolling and hurting people every chance they get.
Who cares what degree of hate it is or how it compares to the KKK. They are causing women and their families unnecessary mental trauma. It is pathetic and condemnable.
There's two forms of Gamergate. The social movement which are for the most part mindless and inoffensive, and the calculated group who started it all. That group is what we refer to as Gamergate. Overall though, they were founded to harass and attack a woman because she slept with someone for an imaginary review they made up and their targets so far have been women, minorities, and allies who lean left of the political spectrum.
SolidSnakesMyStepDad
Member
The internet hive mind is never good. It always just ends up with thousands of people bullying a single person whether or not they did anything wrong. It can ruin careers and lives. It is on of the most despicable things about internet communities.
A Link to the Past
Banned
GG began as a group that intended to harass and threaten women in the industry. Any person in GamerGate who engages in death threats is doing only what the group is trying to do.
Also, GG has actively engaged in attempts on people's lives, such as a successful attempt at phonejamming a trans suicide hotline.
Deleting her social media accounts won't stop the harassment.They have already gone out of the social media sphere and are trying to mess with her and anyone else related to her in real life.
UnemployedVillain
Member
This is what I don't fully understand. Yes she was fired, but it wasn't because of any views she had that her harassers thought were deplorable and it didn't cause Nintendo to do anything with regards to how they localize games, so how did this legitimize them or count as a "win"?
Her being fired was because of their actions, and I can understand that, but it wasn't for any of the reasons they argued for. If this is a group that supposedly believes they're fighting for a righteous cause, then this wouldn't have really counted as anything, would it?
I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around what GG even thinks they're fighting for
NinjaCoachZ
Member
All I can really say is it might not be wise to play devil's advocate toward something you don't fully understand. That's when you start heading into dangerous territory.
I highly implore you at least look up what GG is before coming to a conclusion, instead of conclusions first, questions later.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
I know. I meant for her mental peace. Deleting accounts should help somewhat. I mean I just read some of the replies to one of her tweets. They are so disgusting. I would not want to wake up seeing shit like that in the morning if I were her.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
But that's problem it's hopefully "eventually" because most of time it's never. And I follow these people on Twitter and see that care about this sort of stuff but I rarely see it reflected on their websites or YouTube channel. Along with these companies, they are also failing to anything about this.
I don't want these old folks in the government, especially in the US, doing much on laws for the internet. I'm sorry but these folks don't understand the internet and will likely make things worse.
The biggest hurdle in America is the first amendment.
Also, you Swatting thing will never happen lmao. You expect the government to admit their security forces are too violent? Come on. Swatting should be punishable by at least 5-10 years in prison.
mugurumakensei
Member
No, they do coordinate. I'd rather not link to the site. 8ch and kiwifarms are pretty much their base. On kiwifarms, the victims to be are called lolcows.
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