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[Aquamarine]

Further to Aquamarine's post and before anyone cites the relative installed base of the PS3/360 and Wii U; when Assassin's Creed IV debuted on the PS4 in November it sold >270K and >115K on the XB1, and has now sold >500K on the PS4 and >350K on the XB1.

The game has sold about 3M total, so the PS4 SKU constitutes around 17% of sales on an installed base of 2M systems.

If we were to extend that 1% ratio (1% of 3 million) out to December for Assassin's Creed IV:

PS4 SKU - >500K in two months on a smaller install-base than Wii U

Xbox One SKU - >350K in two months on a smaller install-base than Wii U

Wii U SKU - 30,000 since October...on a system with a larger install-base and an entire year of exposure in the retail market


This is, of course, assuming that 1% Assassin's Creed IV Wii U marketshare didn't shrink to like 0.5% by December...and it may very well have.

 

[Shiggy]

The backlash on The Uplay miiverse section is pretty bad, a number of claims of industry bias against nintendo

Miiverse brings up some of the most childish and biased people. Good that they have been put into their own community now.

 

[enzo_gt]

Before everyone starts blasting Ubsoft, chances are likely that Nintendo told Ubisoft to delay the game and wait for MK8. Iwata has some insane belief that their family friendly first party games will sell more mature third party games this year.

Plus, he doesn't think WatchDogs Wii U is competing against WatchDogs on other systems.

This explains everything. Hopefully in the grander scheme of things Nintendo told every third party to not bother and wait for the Wii U to be phased out in the near future to make room for a competitive console.

Spoiler

Iwata may be that crazy, but he does not step over those specific boundaries

If we were to extend that 1% ratio (1% of 3 million) out to December for Assassin's Creed IV:

PS4 SKU - >500K in two months on a smaller install-base than Wii U

Xbox One SKU - >350K in two months on a smaller install-base than Wii U

Wii U SKU - 30,000 since October...on a system with a larger install-base and an entire year of exposure in the retail market


This is, of course, assuming that 1% Assassin's Creed IV Wii U marketshare didn't shrink to like 0.5% by December...and it may very well have.

I thought X1 and PS4 pretty much outsold the WW Wii U install base in that time too? At least PS4.

 

[Aquamarine]

This explains everything. Hopefully in the grander scheme of things Nintendo told every third party to not bother and wait for the Wii U to be phased out in the near future to make room for a competitive console.

Spoiler

Iwata may be that crazy, but he does not step over those specific boundaries

I thought X1 and PS4 pretty much outsold the WW Wii U install base in that time too? At least PS4.

I'm talking about USA sales (NPD). Ubisoft made 52% of their revenue in North America in Q3.


USA sell-through marketshare at end of December:

Wii U - 2.1 million (425K November launch + 463K December launch + 507K January through October + 223K 2nd November + 481K 2nd December)

PS4 - 2.0 million (1138K November launch + 863K December launch)

Xbox One - 1.8 million (909K November launch + 908K December launch)

 

[John Harker]

Genuine curiosity, when people say wii u so far has had 'some minor successes' - what are they referring to and based on what?

 

[Hermii]

They should delay all the other versions so they can release it on Wii U at the same time.

 

[catmincer]

Genuine curiosity, when people say wii u so far has had 'some minor successes' - what are they referring to and based on what?

Sonic Racing did well on Wii U and uhhhhh Just Dance I would assume did too.

 

[Saty]

Genuine curiosity, when people say wii u so far has had 'some minor successes' - what are they referring to and based on what?

Scribblenauts and LEGO games. Which is why they'll keep being released on the platform and 'core' IPs won't.

 

[The Maverick]

Genuine curiosity, when people say wii u so far has had 'some minor successes' - what are they referring to and based on what?

Well...if companies would stop giving Wii U owners the worst version, they would sell better! As if we can't tell the quality of the game, they should be happy Nintendo even let's these publishers publish on their console. Forget [insert company here].

 

[BGBW]

The game charted pretty high in the UK and still does from time to time. The casuals just buy it because of the branding, why wouldn't that work for the Wii U? Aliens wasn't Ubisoft though, it was Sega.

Guess there's no accounting for taste. But I'd say Wii U's small userbase is likely going to consist of more knowledgeable consumers who were aware Aliens was a bad game so it's reputation wasn't going to do it any favours especially since it wouldn't benefit from blind preorders like it did on the other systems.

My mistake on the UbiSoft/Sega mixup, result of this thread being about Ubisoft meant I only had the one name on the brain.

 

[raschi]

Further to Aquamarine's post and before anyone cites the relative installed base of the PS3/360 and Wii U; when Assassin's Creed IV debuted on the PS4 in November it sold >270K and >115K on the XB1, and has now sold >500K on the PS4 and >350K on the XB1.

The game has sold about 3M total, so the PS4 SKU constitutes around 17% of sales on an installed base of 2M systems.

The PS4/XB1 has the best version of the game, while Wii U has the worst version. You can't move sales to new systems with lower quality versions of your games. Ubisoft can't expect, and doesn't deserve success with their efforts on the Wii U so far.

 

[BowieZ]

I reckon it's subterfuge; let the hype dissipate after the release of the main versions, then later down the track quietly confirm development has been indefinitely postponed.

 

[Exile20]

Genuine curiosity, when people say wii u so far has had 'some minor successes' - what are they referring to and based on what?

Rayman

 

[cyberheater]

I reckon it's subterfuge; let the hype dissipate after the release of the main versions, then later down the track quietly confirm development has been indefinitely postponed.

Yep. I can't see how this would play out any other way.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Stupid Ubisoft forcing Nintendo to prioritise things the market doesn't care about, providing no impetus for generational transition, making hardware that's difficult to port to and not doing the technically impossible and making the Wii U version on par with the PS4 version. That's clearly why the software sales are abysmal and it has nothing at all to do with there being a lack of audience for the titles they make within the tiny installed base of connoisseur elites.

 

[SmokyDave]

The PS4/XB1 has the best version of the game, while Wii U has the worst version. You can't move sales to new systems with lower quality versions of your games. Ubisoft can't expect, and doesn't deserve success with their efforts on the Wii U so far.

That's the Wii U fucked then. Can't blame the devs though, they can only work with what they're given.

 

[Steroyd]

The PS4/XB1 has the best version of the game, while Wii U has the worst version. You can't move sales to new systems with lower quality versions of your games. Ubisoft can't expect, and doesn't deserve success with their efforts on the Wii U so far.

Well unless Nintendo put in a secret GPU that really made it as powerful as the Xbox One, that's not really Ubisoft's fault.

 

[Saty]

The PS4/XB1 has the best version of the game, while Wii U has the worst version. You can't move sales to new systems with lower quality versions of your games. Ubisoft can't expect, and doesn't deserve success with their efforts on the Wii U so far.

Right. Cult-hit exclusive, great platformer,as-good-as-you-can-expect AC4 and Splinter Cell.. And EA sure did 'deserve' success for how it launched BF4 on XB1\PS4. And 'success' != not being even close to breaking even on a 'low quality' version + Ubisoft does find success with Just Dance of the Wii and the Wii U - i bet those are stellar products in your eyes that deserve selling in millions?

 

[BGBW]

Stupid Ubisoft ... not doing the technically impossible and making the Wii U version on par with the PS4 version.

Is anyone asking for that? People just want the Wii U version to be on par or better than the PS360 versions. And this applies to all third party games, especially as they tend to charge more for the Wii U version (at launch).

 

[$h@d0w]

Oh dear, I forsee this thread will become - Watch Dogs no longer coming to Wii U.

 

[raschi]

Well unless Nintendo put in a secret GPU that really made it as powerful as the Xbox One, that's not really Ubisoft's fault.

I'm talking about building a userbase from the start. Wii U should have gotten the best multi-platform versions from the beginning.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Why? Because releasing esoteric hardware marginally better than what's on the market coupled with a poor platform holder history of software sales with such titles is a sure fire recipe for success and entitles significant investment?

Is anyone asking for that? People just want the Wii U version to be on par or better than the PS360 versions. And this applies to all third party games, especially as they tend to charge more for the Wii U version (at launch).

Silly unprincipled PS3 owners buying inferior ports for eight years.

No, people don't want Wii U versions, period. At least not in sizeable quantities. If they did they would perhaps, I dunno, buy them?

 

[Can Crusher]

Honestly, why not just buy it for the PS3 and Xbox 360? I bet it's going to be near identical.

 

[Huff]

Miiverse brings up some of the most childish and biased people. Good that they have been put into their own community now.

But I thought Wii u owners were classy and proper unlike those rogues on xbla and psn

 

[raschi]

Right. Cult-hit exclusive, great platformer,as-good-as-you-can-expect AC4 and Splinter Cell.. And EA sure did 'deserve' success for how it launched BF4 on XB1\PS4. And 'success' != not being even close to breaking even on a 'low quality' version + Ubisoft does find success with Just Dance of the Wii and the Wii U - i bet those are stellar products in your eyes that deserve selling in millions?

Yes Rayman and Just Dance has sold well compared to the other versions, but they were also on par/better than the others. Coincidence? Maybe. As for Just Dance deserving sales in the millions? If they are good games for their target audience, sure.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Can't say I care.

Ubisoft hasn't made a game that's anything other than medicore in the past 8 years.

 

[Huff]

The bad/late port talk is ridiculous. That was the ps3 for the first half + last gen

 

[BGBW]

No, people don't want Wii U versions, period. At least not in sizeable quantities. If they did they would perhaps, I dunno, buy them?

Why would I buy an inferior product (hurr durr Wii U)? I'm not a charity, I don't award publishers for just throwing me a bone. I have a choice of what to spend my money on and a gimped game isn't one of them. I know Watch_Dogs graphically will not be on par with the XBone/PS4 versions, I would't expect it to be. However if it performs worse than the PS360 versions I'll likely just shrug it off and buy something else/buy it for the system where is performs better.

 

[raschi]

The bad/late port talk is ridiculous. That was the ps3 for the first half + last gen

I believe the majority of Wii U owners also own a PS3 or 360. I also believe almost all PS4/XB1 owners also own a PS3 or 360. So then we have PS4/XB1 owners buying PS4/XB1 versions of multiplatform games, and Wii U owners buying PS360 versions of multiplatform games.

 

[nampad]

Yes Rayman and Just Dance has sold well compared to the other versions, but they were also on par/better than the others. Coincidence? Maybe. As for Just Dance deserving sales in the millions? If they are good games for their target audience, sure.

They didn't sell better because the Wii U version is better, they sold better because they fit the audience better.

Nintendo platforms are traditionally good for platformers and Just Dance has always been only successful on the Wii.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Why would I buy an inferior product (hurr durr Wii U)?

I don't contend that anyone should and that wasn't what I was getting at in my post. I do contest, however, the idea that constantly crops up that this is the driving reason behind the terrible sales of Wii U SKUs of multiplatform titles like Assassin's Creed, while titles like Just Dance perform comparatively better.

The former is not selling on the platform because by-and-large the people who have bought the platform do not want the game or games like it. While the latter is selling, alongside things like Scribblenauts, Sonic, Rayman, Lego because there is a more substantive audience for it.

 

[Steroyd]

I'm talking about building a userbase from the start. Wii U should have gotten the best multi-platform versions from the beginning.

Oh boy, this is where it gets tricky.

I agree that the Wii U should have got the best multiplatform versions of games, that should have been a given considering the hardware is a bit better than PS360, where I disagree is that that would have built a userbase for those types of games for the future, look at the top selling titles on the Wii, it's absolute Nintendo domination and they lean towards the platformer/Action Adventure genre more than anything else, the PS3 got shitty ports and still managed to sell enough for publishers to invest more in the platform, hell the Xbox 360's first year was fucking shit in terms of non-feature parity to PS2 with Fifa and Madden, hell the PS4/XB1 versions of Fifa 14 are missing some modes from the PS360 versions I believe (the fact that EA sought not to release a Fifa this year on Wii U speaks volumes when even the Vita got a damn 2013 reskin, holy shit), and released a broken ass piece of shit game that didn't work in BF4 despite all that EA are sitting nicely on 30% total of next gen software sold.

And even when Criterion (RIP T_T ) actually did put effort in NFSMW to build a userbase, they got just as shit sales as the other titles where devs gave Nintendo the shaft in feature parity.

And to be honest, I have absolutely no fucking idea what Nintendo could do to change the type of userbase they attract, I'm not seeing a third party breaking through on a mature title on a Nintendo console.

 

[krizzx]

Unless the Wii U version comes with more content than the others, no one is going to bother with it. There will be too many better games out of the Wii U by that time just like with Rayman Legends.

 

[Father_Brain]

And to be honest, I have absolutely no fucking idea what Nintendo could do to change the type of userbase they attract, I'm not seeing a third party breaking through on a mature title on a Nintendo console.

With enough time and money, and enough of a philosophical shift on the part of NCL, they could eventually. Provide competitive hardware performance; provide an online ecosystem with feature parity with XBL/PSN; provide core-oriented exclusive content compelling enough to make XB/PS owners consider switching platforms.

However, I only believe the first of those three is achievable in time for the launch of their next console (assuming that's by the end of 2017), so core third-party support is most likely a lost cause and they'll have to go another direction.

 

[Effect]

.

And to be honest, I have absolutely no fucking idea what Nintendo could do to change the type of userbase they attract, I'm not seeing a third party breaking through on a mature title on a Nintendo console.

Provide similar experiences with their own IPs and not simply make them one shot deals per system or one shot deals period. Nintendo shelved a number of IPs when they moved from GameCube to Wii, that were arguably more western appealing, that can be used to help correct this problem. This was Iwata's doing because he wanted to centralize everything within NCL.

I would argue the reason they didn't work before was due to the low frequency in which they appeared (one per system) and the lack of push by Nintendo itself in terms of advertising of the games and importance they placed on them. This is a problem with Nintendo in general. They do know how to advertise their own products and it gets worse when you move beyond products that aren't aimed just as kids but instead teens and perhaps adults. That's been the case for a long time and was a big part of what was wrong with the GameCube and their messaging.

This is how Nintendo starts to fix this I think. It's a long term investment though. It took years (over a decade) for us to get to this point. For people to slowly leave and not come back and even now the more hardcore to get to that breaking point. For them to allow an entire generation to grow up without owning Nintendo hardware because they didn't actively engage certain markets and countries. Otherwise they would need to champion a third party game as if it was there own, at the expense of their own title and actively push customers toward it. That's more risky because if it works then that customer could jump ship and not look back. Which is why Nintendo needs to make the push with their own IP or something that is 100% exclusive.

The problems can't be fixed within the Wii U's life. Hell maybe not even in the lifetime of the next system as far as home consoles go. Doesn't mean they can't start addressing it now. However my big take away from the investor meeting and Q&A is that they don't have any desire to address it. Instead they rather venture into a new field and industry to find better success.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Well...if companies would stop giving Wii U owners the worst version, they would sell better! As if we can't tell the quality of the game, they should be happy Nintendo even let's these publishers publish on their console. Forget [insert company here].

All last gen all we heard about was how the ps3 version of some major releases (red dead, bioshock, Skyrim) were inferior yet third parties didn't have trouble moving software on that system. The audience is just not there on Wii u and never will be, regardless of how good the ports are. It's time to just admit that. AC4 could have been the best version around and it still would have sold like crap.

 

[Bgamer90]

I believe the majority of Wii U owners also own a PS3 or 360. I also believe almost all PS4/XB1 owners also own a PS3 or 360. So then we have PS4/XB1 owners buying PS4/XB1 versions of multiplatform games, and Wii U owners buying PS360 versions of multiplatform games.

This is a good point.

 

[MercuryLS]

All last gen all we heard about was how the ps3 version of some major releases (red dead, bioshock, Skyrim) were inferior yet third parties didn't have trouble moving software on that system. The audience is just not there on Wii u and never will be, regardless of how good the ports are. It's time to just admit that. AC4 could have been the best version around and it still would have sold like crap.

Exactly, people just don't want to admit that the Wii U isn't a good place for many 3rd party franchises. What titles did ok on Wii U? Family friendly fare, 3rd parties notice this so I'd imagine you'll see more stuff like LEGO, Skylanders, Just Dance, etc. on the system but the vast majority of core titles will pass the system. Nintendo's done this to themselves by focusing so heavily on family friendly games themselves, they used to publish a wide variety of games in different genres (many from 2nd parties), but over the last few years they've doubled down on the family friendly titles and have pushed themselves into a corner. The market that's interested in a lot of 3rd party titles aren't buying Nintendo consoles anymore. What you're left with is a system for kids and that market is increasingly into stuff like Minecraft, tablet/phone gaming and playing what the big boys play like COD/GTA.

 

[shinra-bansho]

With enough time and money, and enough of a philosophical shift on the part of NCL, they could eventually. Provide competitive hardware performance; provide an online ecosystem with feature parity with XBL/PSN; provide core-oriented exclusive content compelling enough to make XB/PS owners consider switching platforms.

However, I only believe the first of those three is achievable in time for the launch of their next console (assuming that's by the end of 2017), so core third-party support is most likely a lost cause and they'll have to go another direction.

Those would contribute towards, but would in themselves be insufficient philosophical shift imo. But they're really just expectations taken for granted these days. And ultimately wouldn't position the product towards the market for COD or AC, and thus may not adequately build a market for third party products like those titles.

Nintendo is conservative and risk averse, especially when it comes to potentially harming the value of their properties. They've spent decades building an image/brand that is inclusive towards younger audiences and families. Setting aside the most dedicated of Nintendo's fans, their major properties play best with those audiences. They position their console products as toys*, rather than home entertainment electronics as the other two do. Ultimately they make systems to sell their software first and foremost, and the types of games they make are not like COD.

The changes they need to make go beyond just making a first party FPS or fixing their network problems/account systems. Competitive hardware wouldn't have fixed their third party problem; ACIII being a resolution bump wouldn't have made PS360 users jump ship. And these are changes that they will not make.

*I personally have no problem with the assertion that games and game consoles are toys, but as a generality I don't think the 20-something male that is the target audience for COD is looking to furnish his apartment/dorm room/house/flat with a "toy."

 

[John Harker]

Sonic Racing did well on Wii U and uhhhhh Just Dance I would assume did too.

Well that really depends if you consider 150kish good on a platform with a multi million install base and a franchise that even its "Worst" entries sell close to or above a million. Xbox one version of just dance has out sold wii u.... Think about that. Also Lego and scribblenautts same rough ceiling, on multi million selling franchises ::shrug::

I guess I just dont see these "some success" - but all things are relative, and need context to be understood. I think Lego city stories is a phenomenal game for the record.

 

[Huff]

I believe the majority of Wii U owners also own a PS3 or 360. I also believe almost all PS4/XB1 owners also own a PS3 or 360. So then we have PS4/XB1 owners buying PS4/XB1 versions of multiplatform games, and Wii U owners buying PS360 versions of multiplatform games.

exactly. so why even put out a wii u version.

who was the wii u built for?

 

[Saint Gregory]

Well that really depends if you consider 150kish good on a platform with a multi million install base and a franchise that even its "Worst" entries sell close to or above a million. Xbox one version of just dance has out sold wii u.... Think about that. Also Lego and scribblenautts same rough ceiling, on multi million selling franchises ::shrug::

I guess I just dont see these "some success" - but all things are relative, and need context to be understood. I think Lego city stories is a phenomenal game for the record.

Yeah, when I was talking about modest successes I probably should have put in in the context of overall software sales on the platform. The Wii U is showing unprecedented apathy towards software in general which I think gets lost in the low hardware sales which makes me question once again what the few people buying it are using it for? When the PSP was in a similar situation we knew that it was most likely being overrun by piracy but that can't be the answer here.

exactly. so why even put out a wii u version.

who was the wii u built for?

No one seems to know, not even Nintendo. The lesson that I hope they learn from this is don't build hardware without a sound vision of what you plan to do with it. I think that the original Wii motion controller was a brilliant concept but I couldn't help but feel that after Wii Sports was done even Nintendo couldn't figure out what to do with it leading to stuff like Wii Music.

 

[Mithos]

All last gen all we heard about was how the ps3 version of some major releases (red dead, bioshock, Skyrim) were inferior yet third parties didn't have trouble moving software on that system. The audience is just not there on Wii u and never will be, regardless of how good the ports are. It's time to just admit that. AC4 could have been the best version around and it still would have sold like crap.

Maybe they shouldn't have so low expectations/requirements (the Playstation, XBox gamers).

I agree even if AC4 whould have been flawless, gfx, performance price, dlc, date etc etc it would not have been much more successful.... Maybe if AC5, AC6, AC7 would have continued to be as good or better it might have built a fanbase.

 

[jroc74]

The bad/late port talk is ridiculous. That was the ps3 for the first half + last gen

Silly unprincipled PS3 owners buying inferior ports for eight years.

No, people don't want Wii U versions, period. At least not in sizeable quantities. If they did they would perhaps, I dunno, buy them?

I don't contend that anyone should and that wasn't what I was getting at in my post. I do contest, however, the idea that constantly crops up that this is the driving reason behind the terrible sales of Wii U SKUs of multiplatform titles like Assassin's Creed, while titles like Just Dance perform comparatively better.

The former is not selling on the platform because by-and-large the people who have bought the platform do not want the game or games like it. While the latter is selling, alongside things like Scribblenauts, Sonic, Rayman, Lego because there is a more substantive audience for it.

All last gen all we heard about was how the ps3 version of some major releases (red dead, bioshock, Skyrim) were inferior yet third parties didn't have trouble moving software on that system. The audience is just not there on Wii u and never will be, regardless of how good the ports are. It's time to just admit that. AC4 could have been the best version around and it still would have sold like crap.

Yea....I think its time to give the late, bad port excuse a rest. I honestly didnt know the PS3 multi plat games were inferior to 360...until I started hanging out in gaming forums like this late last year. One thing dont do is play my PS3 and 360 side by side....so I wouldnt really know unless somebody told me or I visited gaming sites like this.

Which goes back to my point about do Wii U owners really do that much in dept research about games? Not just Wii U owners...but owners of any console. We have to remember the majority of sales goes to the general public that might not now sites like this, Eurogamer, Digital Foundry exists.

Even with the reversal of the XBO policies...I wonder how many ppl off line even know there was a reversal or why it happened....

 

[Recall]

Ubisoft will wait until after April to announce that the Wii U version is cancelled. Can't go upsetting share holders just yet.

 

[Steroyd]

Ubisoft will wait until after April to announce that the Wii U version is cancelled. Can't go upsetting share holders just yet.

Upset shareholders? Nothing of value is lost if they announce the cancellation of the WiiU version tomorrow. Infact they'd probably be relieved that they're no longer sinking money into something with no payback.

 

[BGBW]

Since the 360 and PS3 are in a different gen to the Wii U you'll probably find the ratio of Wii U owners who also own a PS3 or 360 is greater than PS3 owner who also owned a 360. It's not really comparing like with like.

 

[jroc74]

I believe the majority of Wii U owners also own a PS3 or 360. I also believe almost all PS4/XB1 owners also own a PS3 or 360. So then we have PS4/XB1 owners buying PS4/XB1 versions of multiplatform games, and Wii U owners buying PS360 versions of multiplatform games.

I believe this too. And just based off how the Wii multi plat versions looked....Wii U owners that have other consoles might have that in the back of their minds.

I really do believe many Wii, WII U owners had/have other consoles. It would explain alot.. If all Wii, Wii U owners only had a Wii, Wii U....console sales and game sales would be different. The Wii console and games sales started falling off in 2009, that really hasnt happened with the PS3 and 360.

 

[Castef]

Upset shareholders? Nothing of value is lost if they announce the cancellation of the WiiU version tomorrow. Infact they'd probably be relieved that they're no longer sinking money into something with no payback.

The best thing the could do is to announce a digital-only distribution of the game on Wii U.

This, if the work in this version is actually at a good point.

Otherwise I soooo see this version canceled before the end of march.

 

[Shiggy]

Ubisoft will wait until after April to announce that the Wii U version is cancelled. Can't go upsetting the Wii U defense force just yet.

Fixed, shareholders won't have an issue with the cancellation of a potentially still coming Wii U version.