It's the big compromise. It's shitty and exploitative, but at least it doesn't completely destroy sections of the game.
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Waypoint: 'Shadow of War' and 'Forza 7' Are Poisoning the Concept of Loot Boxes
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
It's the big compromise. It's shitty and exploitative, but at least it doesn't completely destroy sections of the game.
I'm a player who would be interested, but don't like Reaper's default design even though I like his playstyle.
There are plenty of costumes I like, and I'd absolutely be willing to pay like $2.99 or $3.99 for one. But wait, I can't, instead I have to gamble and hope I don't get some sticker bullshit or a Junkrat skin. Either I do this for hours upon hours upon hours until I get what I want or I spend $whofuckingknows until I get what I want. Oh, but I can also get duplicate shit even if I pay, so I better hope I don't get that.
I don't play Overwatch.
SavoyPrime
Member
Fuck this game. No way I'm purchasing this now that the crap about the true ending being hid behind a mode I have no interest in is out in the open.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
I play Overwatch but you're not wrong. I'd much prefer to simply earn gold for my playtime and use that to buy the skins I want.
...in fact, I'd go so far to say as I felt better about what the save-earn-buy loop of progression taught kids while they were playing games, as opposed to the gamble-gamble-gamble progression loop we see everywhere now.
Zombie James
Banned
Is that with or without the tax evasion?
Games which include loot boxes need to be AO-rated (18+) or the equivalent in whatever ratings system your country uses. If that was the case,the problem would likely take care of itself.
It is unacceptable that children are being exposed to this, and conditioned to think that it is OK.
If $60 games are unsustainable without the inclusion of things like loot boxes, developers need to think about scaling back their budgets. They seem to be ballooning out of control.
If loot boxes belong anywhere in gaming, it is only in free-to-play games, and at the very least, the odds need to be present.
It is unacceptable that children are being exposed to this, and conditioned to think that it is OK.
If $60 games are unsustainable without the inclusion of things like loot boxes, developers need to think about scaling back their budgets. They seem to be ballooning out of control.
If loot boxes belong anywhere in gaming, it is only in free-to-play games, and at the very least, the odds need to be present.
.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Remember when we used to complain about on-disc DLC?
We were sweet summer children back then.
We were sweet summer children back then.
Yekshemesh
Member
Destiny 2 isn't in the op. I love the shoot bang parts as much as the next guy but Destiny 2 has some of the most useless shit in their loot boxes.
In the case of Forza it seems questionable that budgets are ballooning. It is a biannual game, that can afford plenty of asset reuse. Previous iterations didn't need such aggressive systems and they would seemingly cost the same amount to develop and maintain.
Why can't the game be supported with cosmetic DLC that you can choose to buy?
Plague Doctor
Member
So either they need RNG Microtransactions to stay afloat and they are only willing alter game design to use manipulative practices out of necessity... or... they aren't effecting gameplay, game design, and you aren't being directed there which means they don't need them at all.
Which is it?
Which is it?
texhnolyze
Banned
Do people realize that loot boxes have already been regulated in a certain country?
It's not something that you should defend, just wake up already.
It's not something that you should defend, just wake up already.
semiconscious
Member
basically, this. pretty poorly-titled article, implying there's such a thing as 'good' loot boxes
...I think Paragon offers this, but it's a free to play game though.
Also the lootbox system is a little bit more complex. It has chests that gives out cards, gems, boosts, reputation points, keys and lootcrates. The latter are rather rare. In order to open lootcrates you need keys, so it's a double wall. Obviously only lootcrates offer Skins and banners from what I've seen.
The card economy can be completely ignored when you are focused on pvp, due to balancing reasons. So that's a plus.
Plague Doctor
Member
Sorry for another post so quickly but I got to say this.
For many of you, you seriously rock! I am usually pretty jaded but many of you are taking a legit issue in gaming and calling bullshit on it. This isn't debating the amount of pixels or whatever, this is straight up anticonsumer shit and many of you, articles, and youtubers are calling them out. Complete respect.
For many of you, you seriously rock! I am usually pretty jaded but many of you are taking a legit issue in gaming and calling bullshit on it. This isn't debating the amount of pixels or whatever, this is straight up anticonsumer shit and many of you, articles, and youtubers are calling them out. Complete respect.
2blackcats
Member
Well, the fact that the Destiny 2 loot boxes are full of useless shit is an argument in their favour in this particular debate.
Also agree with the poster above you who says any game with loot boxes should be rated 18s or adult only. Would be a start anyway.
Maybe we could contact the ratings board and make the suggestion.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
i really wish loot boxes were regulated the same way as gambling when real cash is involved, because that's what it is
The disconnect may be determined by what game mode they play the most. For example, in sports games I generally sway towards Be A GM/Franchise and straight up team verses modes (whether offline or online). Both of these mode types are generally unaffected or are not affected to the same degree to something like 2K's MyCareer or EA's Ultimate Team game modes.
Also, sports games tend to favor casual play in that you play a few matches, then go on to something else. That's not to say that nobody dedicates considerable amount of time to a sports game like NBA or FIFA, but I would not be surprised that the vast majority of gamers who buy and play sports games do so to play something more casually between big releases that require a larger time commitment like Breath of the Wild for instance.
I would be very curious to see that actual statistics on which game modes are played the most by the majority of gamers who purchase sports games. Just because publishers like EA or 2K are making a killing on those game modes with a heavy emphasis on MTs does not mean that they are the most popular game modes, it simply states that those who enjoy those modes are the same types who may be more influenced spend a few dollars on VC or UT packs.
2blackcats
Member
So smart I'm actually amazed it isn't already a thing.
To be fair, this game will very likely be $20 in two months, lol.
Agree with all of this.
I kind of have problems with people under 18 playing games that have these gambling elements and/or are begging kids for money at every turn in game.
It sets a bad precedent and really preys on the mental immaturity of people whose brains arent fully developed. When you sit and think about it for even a few minutes, its really gross.
Nobody thinks its a good idea to let a 14 year old play keno, but gambling on overwatch skins is perfectly fine.
Duchess O'Death
Member
I hope they don't ruin lootboxes forever! I like cosmetic lootboxes.
that's the most depressing part.
physical loot crates and digital loot crates are only superficially similar. The concept of random prizes changes drastically when you have 24/7 instant access to it and automated storefront iteration cycles that are able to target people on an individual level. Nothing like that exists in the physical world.
Banderdash
Member
"True Endings" can fuck off and all.
Even the japanese with all of their gacha draw in their mobile games, have the decency and self-respect to not put it in their pay to play. People keep turning blind to this predatory practice because they think this doesnt affect them is disgusting. Not affecting me my ass, you better ready for free to play grinding in your 60 dollars games.
IISANDERII
Member
Battlefront 1 was also pay2win so it doesn't surprise me.
McStickenstein
Member
The concept of loot boxes itself is poisonous. I don't care how you pay for it, earn it, what's inside.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
The extra ending and Shadow Wars sounds kinda cool, actually... sort of like a MGS Peace Walker or MGS V sort of deal. Chapters 1-4 and Chapters 1 respectively being the main story, but then a sort of bonus epilogue ending with a bonus ending.
That said, balancing it in a way that heavily promotes RMT to buy loot boxes sounds lame but... I suppose that's subjective, too. What one person feels as grindy and promoting RMT, another gamer may feel is not all that bad of a grind. Some people said MGS V did this and I never once felt that way; in contrast, GTAO does it heavily (at the start) even if you're a pretty hardcore grinder. So we'll see how it goes I guess.
If it ends up being a case like DX Mankind Divided where it's sort of pointless, it's still regrettable though because why even include it then. Guessing it'll be more like a case of MGS V where it's pointless for the story but promoted for the FOB endgame.
That said, balancing it in a way that heavily promotes RMT to buy loot boxes sounds lame but... I suppose that's subjective, too. What one person feels as grindy and promoting RMT, another gamer may feel is not all that bad of a grind. Some people said MGS V did this and I never once felt that way; in contrast, GTAO does it heavily (at the start) even if you're a pretty hardcore grinder. So we'll see how it goes I guess.
If it ends up being a case like DX Mankind Divided where it's sort of pointless, it's still regrettable though because why even include it then. Guessing it'll be more like a case of MGS V where it's pointless for the story but promoted for the FOB endgame.
Emulated Hype
Member
It's more like a festering infection on the fang, really.
2blackcats
Member
Well, I contacted PEGI. I'll update if they get back to me.
Darkstorne
Member
This. SO MUCH THIS. What is wrong with these guys?
If you want to supplement a game's income by selling cosmetics, then fine, create a store and sell me some cosmetics. If I like what I see, and I want to support the game, I'll happily buy them. But don't bundle the one cosmetic I'm interested in with a plethora of wank that I'm not interested in and expect me to happy about gambling for it. Fuck that venomous business practice, and fuck your game if you choose to adopt it. Having no respect for consumers like that means you get none from me.
No, it doesn't. There are much fairer ways for them to sell cosmetics to their players and still turn a colossal profit, and none of you should be happy that Blizzard are deliberately screwing you over like this. You wouldn't be happy if a restaurant showed you a menu and said "you pay $20, and you get one of these meals. No, you cannot choose, and you cannot ask for a refund, but if you don't get the meal you want you can always pay another $20 to try again," so don't put up with this bull from games either.
2blackcats
Member
^My brother runs a restaurant where there is a surprise menu. It's their best seller by far.
Darkstorne
Member
Then we're all doomed =P
But presumably that's an option, and you also have the option of buying the meal you actually want, right? It would be interesting to see a video game trial that actually. Loot boxes alongside being able to buy exactly the cosmetics you want. Maybe the loot boxes would still be popular just for the gambling sensation?
Who will pay for servers? There aren't many subscription online games lately.
Loot boxes in single player should die but I'm ok with them in f2p online only games. If its the way to generate revenue to support the game let them be or just ignore the game if you hate them so much.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Wait is this sarcasm? You know PS+ and Xbox live exist right?
Optional game boosters makes the game p2w and its worse than for example skins in loot boxes.
matrix-cat
Member
I'll keep enjoying the dozens upon dozens of games that release every year at $60 or lower and don't include any of this bullshit. Where does this "Just lie down and take it" mentality come from? A handful of games try this shit and we should just immediately accept it?
Yup, ideally none of this but I am fine with Option A. Sadly AAA publishers can't help themselves and they had to push it way further than is reasonable.
Agreed. I loved the first game, but loot boxes made me cancel my pre-order, and being forced to play multiplayer for campaign story content just makes me want to avoid it altogether. Plenty of games to play besides this.
Preach.