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We arent fat because we eat too much and exercise too little
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Paleo diet, Primal diet, Taubes, and others would say bacon is ok. If anything would be more concerned about nitrates and stuff rather than the fat. Example of a Paleo diet blogs response:
http://balancedbites.com/2011/05/bacon-health-food-or-devil-in-delicious-disguise.html
I'm guessing that's kilos. That's good, lifestyle changes are much better than the quick fix diet plans. Taubes I think would argue though that as you get older it will be harder and harder to maintain.
Fair enough.
This is complete bullcrap.
Because of a disease, all of the food, that I eat, is Ensure+ (it's special medical liquid food) currently. This is the case for 3 years now and counting. Ensure+ contains lots of sugar, because it's easy for the body to use. And I'm even slightly underweight. And because of the disease, I can't even do any sort of sports at all.
I only need around 5 200ml packages per day. 300kcal each. Which means in total I'm getting 1500kcal per day. Each of those packages contains around 50g carbohydrates.
Of course, if I ate double that, I would get fat. Because I would give my body way too much calories.
hockeypuck
Member
Bullshit. Even Gary Taubes' well-done pdf summary of numerous diet trials (can be downloaded from the Reddit link above) shows that study sample sizes are too small, have high drop-out rates, neglect intention-to-treat analyses, and overall do not show anything worthy of applying towards any individual. The problem with nutritional science in its current state is that it's trying to use population-based methods on something an individual can easily test on himself/herself every day. Look at the slew of anecdotes in this thread. It's one thing to design a trial comparing coronary artery bypass surgery versus percutanous stenting for multivessel disease; diet "trials" (especially in non-hospitalized people) is an entire different animal and there is nothing scientific about it. Your thread title should replace "We" with "I."
Karsticles
Member
As someone who lost 100 lbs on a low carb diet, not because I didn't eat, but because I no longer felt like eating all the time, I'm entirely on this bus. My feeling is that the people who doubt the logic in the OP have never gone on a low carbohydrate diet for more than a 1 month period. It's a transforming life experience to not have food dominate your mind, to always feel hungry, even a bit when you are stuffed and feeling bloated.
Also, I drink far, far more water on a low carbohydrate diet than I do on a normal "American" diet. I simply crave water all the time, and it feels good.
Also, I drink far, far more water on a low carbohydrate diet than I do on a normal "American" diet. I simply crave water all the time, and it feels good.
SugarDaddy
Member
Well, 1g carbs is 4 calories. So yes, they do correlate. But the total calories on the nutrition label takes that into account (that's how they calculate the calories). Fat is 9 calories I believe.
Always avoid saturated fats. Monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats are good for you IIRC. Definitely pay attention to caloric values as well as fat %, nothing is unimportant.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Nope. White rice with sugar. All day errday. I do whatta wan.What? Joke post?
Eat brown rice btw, way more healthy...
But I exercise regularly and eat a bunch of fruit and veggies so maybe it evens out. I love my carbs and I'm definitely not a fatty.
Karsticles
Member
I think different people (genetics) and different lifestyles (environment) require different kinds of diets. I would never go to an Olympic athlete and dictate a low carb diet, for example. It has worked for me, and ideally, I'd just like to see people respect it as a healthy, smart option for certain people who live certain kinds of lives.
SugarDaddy
Member
:lol
The main point of the study is sound, but people here are blowing things out of proportion.
You can take that up with Lyle McDonald. I'm personally posting this thread as a conversation starter. I was a proponent of counting calories and calories in/calories out. Still eat oatmeal and grain though I am wanting to stop that for various reasons.
As I say, nutrition info is almost comically contradicting and ever changing. Everyone should be skeptical but it's also good to keep an open mind and hear out a well reasoned, well researched and well supported argument. You can play the dueling studies game or pick apart the ones you feel arent up to snuff, that's fine.
Well that's just poor grammar.
For those people who dont agree with the no grain, no sugar, no processed foods diet, they should actually try that diet for a month and see for themselves
Quite simply, it works. I dont calorie count. I simply dont eat grain, sugar, and processed foods, but eat good food until I'm full, and quite often eat more than I should, and I still lose/maintain weight. Oh, and I dont exercise, at all (though i should lift for my general health)
I also feel better on this diet. I used to constantly get colds. Those are gone now. I also have much more sustained energy and dont get those sugar high/carb crashes anymore. Feeling like a bloated sack of crap if you eat too many carbs? Gone too.
The reason why people are advocated this diet is that they have tried it and it has worked for them. It has worked for a lot of people, and it is EASILY sustainable. A calorie deficit diet with more exercise simply isnt.
You can eat dairy. And Quinoa, beans, and brown rice arent bad for you. they simply arent good for you
Quite simply, it works. I dont calorie count. I simply dont eat grain, sugar, and processed foods, but eat good food until I'm full, and quite often eat more than I should, and I still lose/maintain weight. Oh, and I dont exercise, at all (though i should lift for my general health)
I also feel better on this diet. I used to constantly get colds. Those are gone now. I also have much more sustained energy and dont get those sugar high/carb crashes anymore. Feeling like a bloated sack of crap if you eat too many carbs? Gone too.
The reason why people are advocated this diet is that they have tried it and it has worked for them. It has worked for a lot of people, and it is EASILY sustainable. A calorie deficit diet with more exercise simply isnt.
You can eat dairy. And Quinoa, beans, and brown rice arent bad for you. they simply arent good for you
Always-honest
Banned
They need the extra energy.
hockeypuck
Member
And I'm arguing that there's nothing well-researched in this field.
But at least it would be more accurate and less misleading.
Oh I definitely wouldnt go that far. I think you can eat all of that in moderate amounts and be just fine. Fat free cheese though sounds a bit ... bleh... to me, but i digress. I think the point is how inundated our diets are with sugar and processed foods and what effect that has on us.
yankeeforever2
Member
............Please tell me you are not at 6 foot 1 inch and 102 pounds.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Cut carbs to lose weight???? WOW THIS IS SO NEW AND EXCITING
Wafflecakes
Member
Cheese (why on earth would you eat fat free), and cottage cheese are encouraged on most low carb diets. Milk and Yogurt are allowed on some.
TBH there are some nutty diets out there. What you NEED to learn is the basics of the diet.....(for example if the goal is to avoid processed foods and stay under 50g of carbs a day) they work towards that goal. Rather than getting too caught up in details.
Taubes is calling for more research. I believe he intends to work towards those studies himself.
The title is meant to be provocative, but you should read it in the context of: we (generically) are getting fatter, in the US and elsewhere. Not by a little, and not over a long period of time. It's not that we are suddenly doing less, exercising less, or eating more calories. It's that what we are eating is making us fatter.
Cottage cheese and milk are actually quite protein heavy and very much allowed on a low-carb diet. Cottage cheese for one is an amazing protein source.
Tragicomedy
Member
The Atkins diet works based on the simple concept of causing ketosis in your body, thus leading your body to consume fat via lipolysis. There aren't many long-term medicinal studies that point it out as a particularly healthy or effective long-term diet. The whole, "My buddy worked out and cut carbs and is now shredded!" is meaningless, aside from the fact that it worked out for your buddy.
Calories in versus calories out is the MOST important factor, bar none. Your resting metabolic rate dictates what you need to eat every day. If you're gaining weight, it means you are consuming more calories than your resting metabolic rate. It can't be any simpler than that.
The macro-nutrient composition of the calories you eat plays a role in terms of how quickly they can be accessed by the body for energy (carbs are an instant insulin spike, whereas protein and fat not so much). They can also have a multitude of other factors on your overall health (you won't get a healthy balance of your body's vitamin and amino acid needs if you eat sugary crap all day). But in terms of weight gains and weight loss, it's calories in / calories out.
Remember that guy who ate crap like Twinkies all day to get his necessary caloric intake for the day? By reducing the number of calories he took in, he lost weight and was generally speaking healthier on an all-Twinkie diet.
Calories in versus calories out is the MOST important factor, bar none. Your resting metabolic rate dictates what you need to eat every day. If you're gaining weight, it means you are consuming more calories than your resting metabolic rate. It can't be any simpler than that.
The macro-nutrient composition of the calories you eat plays a role in terms of how quickly they can be accessed by the body for energy (carbs are an instant insulin spike, whereas protein and fat not so much). They can also have a multitude of other factors on your overall health (you won't get a healthy balance of your body's vitamin and amino acid needs if you eat sugary crap all day). But in terms of weight gains and weight loss, it's calories in / calories out.
Remember that guy who ate crap like Twinkies all day to get his necessary caloric intake for the day? By reducing the number of calories he took in, he lost weight and was generally speaking healthier on an all-Twinkie diet.
Bullshit. An all twinkie diet calorie in/calorie out diet is simply unsustainable. All sorts of crazy diets can work in the short term. The reason why the no grain, no sugar, no processed food diet works is because its easily sustainable for the rest of your life.
Seriously, I eat a TON of food. I just eat the right food and i am able to lose and maintain my weight. I honestly have no idea how much calories i eat, but that is another positive thing about the diet. You dont have to worry about that crap. You should have to worry about what you stick in your mouth, not how much
Seriously, try it for yourself before you knock it. A no grain, no sugar, no processed food diet definitely wont do any damage, no matter your views on diet
Taubes talks about this a bit in his books. Basically, if you are eating less, you're also eating less carbs, because carbs make up a certain percentage of your diet, and if you cut food, you're cutting everything. Also, when people go on any diet, they usually cut down on obvious problem foods (soft drinks, sweets) right away, and for some people that is enough.
Some people are only slightly insulin resistant, and they can get away with only making slight changes.
Fat doesn't energize the brain IIRC. You need at least some carbs for that.
And you can get those from veggies, dairy, or fruit. You dont need to eat grain, and definitely do not need/want sugar
Calories in, calories out. Don't eat too many. Sure, eat veggies and meat. It will keep you full for longer, and you will break down the fat more slowly.
Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. It IS complicated, but we don't have a nation of fat people due to complicated nutritional concepts. We eat too much, and we don't move enough.
That being said, I know i'd feel much more full from a steak when compared to a big bowl of french fries.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3820/2 4x 174 calories (696) if you are eating a 12 oz steak. that's fairly filling. I probably wouldn't have to eat too much for the rest of the day if I ate that.
compare that to a large mcdonalds french fries. 574 calories and it's so easy to pack away. Quickly metabolized and you are hungry again! I know I am anyway.
Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. It IS complicated, but we don't have a nation of fat people due to complicated nutritional concepts. We eat too much, and we don't move enough.
That being said, I know i'd feel much more full from a steak when compared to a big bowl of french fries.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3820/2 4x 174 calories (696) if you are eating a 12 oz steak. that's fairly filling. I probably wouldn't have to eat too much for the rest of the day if I ate that.
compare that to a large mcdonalds french fries. 574 calories and it's so easy to pack away. Quickly metabolized and you are hungry again! I know I am anyway.
Mook1e
Member
Yeah, that's not entirely true either.
http://www.policymic.com/mobile/art...ot-bad-for-your-brain-and-you-ve-been-lied-to
Tragicomedy
Member
I'm not claiming the Twinkie diet is sustainable, silly goose. I'm saying that a scientific researcher was able to lose weight eating nothing but that kind of junk by limiting his caloric intake to under his metabolic resting rate. That supports what every nutritionist and dietitian in the world has known forever: calories in/calories out is what matters.
I'm happy you've found an Atkins-style diet that you can maintain for the entirety of your life. Unfortunately, there isn't long-term research that proves the diet is healthy for you. The founder died of heart disease. The over-reliance on foods heavy in fats and cholesterol is particularly worrisome for me.
I have done the Atkins diet in the past, and felt sluggish and generally bad while doing it. It was only for a month, but that was enough for me. I used it to get cut up for a summer beach season. It worked but I'm never going back.
There are lots of different diets that work for different people. The key is making sure you meet your body's nutritional (vitamins, calories, amino acids, etc.) needs. If you're checking off those boxes, you're good to go. I've been a vegetarian for awhile now and it works for me. I am at an ideal weight, I feel energetic and great all day long, and I'm never hungry. That's sustainable for me.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Yep. I've actually reversed my diabetes by reducing my carbohydrate consumption. The trick, for me anyway, was to find the proper sustainable amount for myself at my current weight.
Lately, I've been taking in around 125-150 grams per day (oops had it wrong) and I'm loosing weight. It's a slow and steady weight loss, but this is with no exercise, no calorie counting, and no cravings. I loose around 1lb a week or so. The issue is the cost of food though, since I'm eating so much meat now. I still eat my bread and potatoes though, got that Irish in my blood, but I just try to smart about it.
CornBurrito
Member
You also can't eat peanut butter I believe.
Exactly, I don't want to eat foods that aren't exactly bad for you but also aren't really good for you, so I guess I'll just cut them out of my diet.
I do eat all that in moderate amounts and I'm quite lean but I also exercise a lot, however I might try getting rid of al grains to see how I feel physically, though the last time I tried doing it I felt quite weak because I didn't really replace the calories from the grains with anything so I was a bit depleted on calories.
I don't really eat a lot of cheese, I just eat the fat free shredded cheddar cheese as a snack since I get a lot of my fats from avocados, nuts, and fish. I love cottage cheese but I try not to eat too much because it has so much sodium. I have to drink milk, I just have to, should I replace dairy milk with something like almond milk?
You'll be hard pressed to find a study that links fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol with an increased chance for heart disease. What increases your risk is carbs and especially sugar.
Seriously though, if your Adkins diet was you just eating meat and veggies, well, I can see why you'd get sick of it. I dont eat more meat since ive changed to this diet, though there is nothing wrong with that. Ive simply been eating more dairy, fruit, and especially more dairy.
But hey, if you feel full and healthy on a vegetarian diet, more power to you. Personally, I couldnt do it because it takes a hell of a lot more work to make sure you get proper nutrients and I highly doubt i would feel full without meat
If you cut carbs, you should 'replace' the carbs with fat. so drop the fat free cheese for full fat, etc
By the same token a guy eating his normal 3000kcals per day, and expending his normal amount of calories in activity, changes his food from pizza and soda to grilled chicken and broccoli and loses 20 pounds very quickly. So clearly it's not only calories in calories out.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
That's reasonable. I just get uptight when people construct a message that demonizes a macro-nutrient without contextualizing it. Like the "all sugar is poison" guy. It's not that simple. There's no magic bullet or one size fits all solution to maintaining a healthy body.
And ignoring "calories in / calories out" is just throwing the baby out with the bath water. That model can be tailored to fit an individual's goals as well. Fats and proteins aren't a get out of fail free card. You can easily gain weight on that. I've bulked up before by mostly eating natural peanut butter.
hockeypuck
Member
FWIW, I will continue to eat whole grains to help reduce my chances of getting colon cancer, the second most common cancer-killer in the U.S. Unlike weight-loss studies, the consistency amongst multiple studies showing the protective benefit of dietary fiber, specifically from grains, is actually convincing.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I'm an athlete, Soneet. We typically ignore this type of bullshit.
I'd disagree with this. In addition to the influx of refined sugars in the Western diet, there's an argument that it's coincided with an increase of daily consumption of overall calories and a far more sedentary lifestyle for the general population.
I don't have any studies offhand, but if anyone could find the number of hours in front of a monitor or television your average American spent in 1980, 1990, 2000, etc. I'd wager there was an upward trend. This gives them ample opportunity to consume more calories and more of those refined sugars that everyone is fussing about. It's a two-pronged assault on the waistline. You have additional time and opportunity to eat.
ShinNL
Member
Good for you, but do realize that the average person isn't. I see you in every carb thread trying to demonize (as you say it) the posters who encourage avoiding carbs. That doesn't help make the world better.
Sigh. It's not about complicated biochemical science. The main barriers are Social Determinants of health.
from the wikipedia page "They are risk factors found in one's living and working conditions (such as the distribution of income, wealth, influence, and power), rather than individual factors (such as behavioural risk factors or genetics) that influence the risk for a disease, injury, or vulnerability to disease or injury. "
For the most part, if you are fat and unhealthy, it is because there is a problem of sorts in the social determinants of health that shape you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_determinants_of_health
I strongly support this idea.
from the wikipedia page "They are risk factors found in one's living and working conditions (such as the distribution of income, wealth, influence, and power), rather than individual factors (such as behavioural risk factors or genetics) that influence the risk for a disease, injury, or vulnerability to disease or injury. "
For the most part, if you are fat and unhealthy, it is because there is a problem of sorts in the social determinants of health that shape you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_determinants_of_health
I strongly support this idea.
Well, i have some bad news for you. Want you want is soluble fiber, not insoluble fiber. Whole wheat has insoluble dietry fiber. Insoluble just makes you crap more often. The best source of soluble fiber is green veggies, fruit, and legumes. So yea, just eat Spinach and fruit and you are good to go
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