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'We believe in generations:' PlayStation argues cross-gen games risk stifling innovation

Vaelka

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Here is another comparison of Miles' character model. I have no idea what people are looking at when they say this looks like the PS4 character mode.



Funny how quickly people forget not to blindly trust marketing material, people are even bringing up the CG trailer lol I mean cmon.

Even so I don't think that his model looks like anything special, then again I am just so fucking bored with '' photorealism ''.
 

Vawn

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Generations are purely marketing poppycock. Just another excuse into forcing your hand into buying new hardware. Sony is a lot like Apple in that sense, so of course they dislike MS rocking the boat too hard.
You sound like parents when the Super NES was announced and they were trying to teach their children it is a scam as there was no difference from the Nintendo they already owned.
 

hyperbertha

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That GoT video is simply sad, the lighting took a huge beating. Wow.
Not just the lighting. The expressions of the old lady at the end, especially after defeat, is a lot less nuanced, and her face lacks the reflective skin. Why do they have to do that? I thought cutscene offered enough memory to not do that sort of thing.
 
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Azurro

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Based on the fact that the games shown at the Sony conference looked mostly cross gen and could easily run on PS4 with downscaled effects, i'd say MS has the right approach and more consumer friendly.
I love it when fanboys use these type of terms, because it shows they have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about, magically know how much work goes in each thread of every game on the CPU side as well as what can be scaled down in terms of GPU. Just with a single look and no need for performance tools and they know exactly how much space assets are taking in memory at all times, incredible.

I really imagine a dumb 13 year old child going "Playstation Mehsmation!! MS Foreverzzz" every time stupidity like this is posted.
 
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Insane Metal

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Not just the lighting. The expressions of the old lady at the end, especially after defeat, is a lot less nuanced, and her face lacks the reflective skin. Why do they have to do that? I thought cutscene offered enough memory to not do that sort of thing.
The horse movement, the way its tail moves in the wind, the grass, it lacks a lot of movement with the horse running through it, a lot of the things shown are downgraded, such a shame.
 
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I love it when fanboys use these type of terms, because it shows they have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about, magically know how much work goes in each thread of every game on the CPU side as well as what can be scaled down in terms of GPU. Just with a single look and no need for performance tools and they know exactly how much space assets are taking in memory at all times, incredible.

I really imagine a dumb 13 year old child going "Playstation Mehsmation!! MS Foreverzzz" every time stupidity like this is posted.
Its not that hard to see that he posts that in EVERY.SINGLE.THREAD.

It's the same line over and over ad naseum:

'Based on the fact that the games shown at the Sony conference looked mostly cross gen and could easily run on PS4 with downscaled effects, i'd say MS has the right approach and more consumer friendly'

Seriously, just have a look at his post history and you will see the above repeated in damn near every post he makes, in any thread. It's trolling in its purest form.
 
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GlassAwful

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Now this is just getting silly. No, i am not buying your assertion that main characters look better than side characters in most games. Thats simply not true. Especially in this game since Miles is one of the three playable characters and is in many scenes with Peter, and it never looks like they are from different games.





Regardless, Miles now looks a gen ahead of the Peter parker character model.

That last Peter Parker image is the only PS4 photo you've posted that isn't riddled with detail blurring compression artifacts and it looks like he would fit comfortably standing next to the PS5 Miles...

There's no generational leap here. An improvement, sure, But a modest one at best, like what'd you'd expect between sequels in the same generation (minus expensive effects like RT and bokeh dof of course).. Anything more than that is fanboy's dreaming up detail that don't exist.

Anyway, the point is Spiderman Miles and other PS5 games are doing nothing impressive with the new tech. They could lower slightly lower detail, remove ray tracing and it would be the same game because that's all it will be, a safe ass boring semi-sequel to what was a safe ass boring open world game.

I remember the past 2 years of nextgen hype talking about opening up world simulations, destruction and player interactivity on a scale we've never seen. That was the argument for the cross-gen cut off on PS5 and I bought into it for the longest time...

Apparently developers aren't as imaginative as the fans so we'll have to make do with samey sequels to all the games we're already bored with but now with 4k graphics and Ray Traced reflections some of the time!!!! Wowee wee wow, so innovative! Thanks Sony for showing us the way!

This industry needs an enema.
 

SlimySnake

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That last Peter Parker image is the only PS4 photo you've posted that isn't riddled with detail blurring compression artifacts and it looks like he would fit comfortably standing next to the PS5 Miles...

There's no generational leap here. An improvement, sure, But a modest one at best, like what'd you'd expect between sequels in the same generation (minus expensive effects like RT and bokeh dof of course).. Anything more than that is fanboy's dreaming up detail that don't exist.

Anyway, the point is Spiderman Miles and other PS5 games are doing nothing impressive with the new tech. They could lower slightly lower detail, remove ray tracing and it would be the same game because that's all it will be, a safe ass boring semi-sequel to what was a safe ass boring open world game.

I remember the past 2 years of nextgen hype talking about opening up world simulations, destruction and player interactivity on a scale we've never seen. That was the argument for the cross-gen cut off on PS5 and I bought into it for the longest time...

Apparently developers aren't as imaginative as the fans so we'll have to make do with samey sequels to all the games we're already bored with but now with 4k graphics and Ray Traced reflections some of the time!!!! Wowee wee wow, so innovative! Thanks Sony for showing us the way!

This industry needs an enema.
maybe because the entire point of my post was to compare Spider and Miles in the same game. there is a reason why they are both in the same pic together. I used the high quality pic to make the comparison between Peter and Miles in two different games.

the rest i dont necessarily disagree with. i too was underwhelmed by the graphical upgrade and i too wanted to see next gen simulations, destruction and player interactivity that we didnt get to see from Sony. i hope MS blows us away in four days because sony's conference was super underwhelming.

that said, this discussion started with one guy saying that the PS5 miles character model is basically the same as the PS4 Pro character model. Now thats a load of shit. anyone with a set of eyes can see the improvement. whether or not, it's generational its subjective, but if you think that character model looks the same then you need to get your eyes checked. which is what i was telling the guy i replied to before he brought in peter parker and moved the goalposts.

lastly, we do see some world simulations in the horizon trailer. we see several shots of the eco system in the ocean with thousands of fish. on land, crabs would fight over food, birds would go into the ocean to hunt fish. RDR2 is the only game that even tries to have this kind of wild life eco system and i never saw anything like this.





We also see a little bit of destruction in this Demon Souls clip. Looks far more impressive than anything I've seen on PS4.



But yes, it seems next year is when we will start to get some true next gen games because EA blew me away.

 
Oct 16, 2017
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I love it when fanboys use these type of terms, because it shows they have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about, magically know how much work goes in each thread of every game on the CPU side as well as what can be scaled down in terms of GPU. Just with a single look and no need for performance tools and they know exactly how much space assets are taking in memory at all times, incredible.

I really imagine a dumb 13 year old child going "Playstation Mehsmation!! MS Foreverzzz" every time stupidity like this is posted.
By definition, diehard fans are the last to abandon a console. Xbox know this too, so they know how to target the remaining customers in a way that would not have worked, had they maintained a larger user base.

The down side, is that if you assume you only have diehard fans, then you will not convince anyone else to sign up.
 
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Falc67

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Funny how quickly people forget not to blindly trust marketing material, people are even bringing up the CG trailer lol I mean cmon.

Even so I don't think that his model looks like anything special, then again I am just so fucking bored with '' photorealism ''.
So the Spider-Man trailer is a Marketing CG trailer that we shouldn’t believe is doable, but it’s not even impressive anyway? 😶
 

TheGrat1

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Didn't they once say 10 years of support for every Sony console?

PlayStation - Launched 1994. 2004 - NFL Gameday 2005, MLB 2005
PlayStation 2 - Launched 2000. 2010 - MLB 10: The Show, Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow.
PlayStation 3 - Launched 2006. 2016 - MLB The Show 2016
Pretty sure the PlayStation 4 can count on a MLB game coming in 2023.

Take that for what you will but these are just the Sony published games. PlayStation was still getting games in 2005 and was not discontinued until 2006. :messenger_dizzy:

Edit: Forgot the damn quote! :messenger_downcast_sweat:
 
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DavidGzz

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MS never realized gamepass would break them
Yeah cause we'll all remember the first two years of this gen where XGS made games for two generations. Funny how we went from Xbox has no games to XGS making so many games that aren't using the full 12 TF that it is breaking Xbox. Do you even remember 2013-2015 game wise? Most everything sucked besides Bloodborne. Lol
 
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SlimySnake

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Yeah cause we'll all remember the first two years of this gen where XGS made games for two generations. Funny how we went from Xbox has no games to XGS making so many games that aren't using the full 12 TF that it is breaking Xbox. Do you even remember 2013-2015 game wise? Most everything sucked besides Bloodborne. Lol
actually MS had a pretty decent first two years.

Titanfall was excellent. Sunset too. the rest of the stuff like ryse, dead rising, forza and killer instinct were kinda meh, but Sunset and Titanfall really stood out in a bad year like 2014. though looking back, watch dogs, dragon age inquisition, driveclub, infamous and destiny were not exactly bad games, just underwhelming.

but yes bloodborne was the first truly great current gen game with witcher 3, batman arkham knight and mgs5 following it soon after. rise of tomb raider was excellent too and also came out in 2015.
 
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Ozzie666

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I felt next generation had arrived playing Second Son and Shadows of Mordor, at least for me. Just compare Shadows of Mordor between this generation and the previous. The removal or trimmed down Nemesis system, etc.
 
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ZywyPL

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Yeah cause we'll all remember the first two years of this gen where XGS made games for two generations. Funny how we went from Xbox has no games to XGS making so many games that aren't using the full 12 TF that it is breaking Xbox. Do you even remember 2013-2015 game wise? Most everything sucked besides Bloodborne. Lol
Yeah, PS4 exclusives didn't start to show up until 2016 with UC4, and everyone seem to forgot that during its first 3 years it had to rely on nothing but cross-gen titles, indie ports form PC/smartphones, and remasters, and this gen will obviously be no differ (especially with x86 making everything sooo much easier), no sane publisher will abandon that 150M+ userbase overnight, cross-gen era is about to return once again whether someone likes/denies it or not, but after those initial 2-3 years once majority of the market is onboard of new consoles, this is where the new generation will truly start, and no one will ever remember those initial few transition years.
 
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Sony has released 3 fantastic first party games just this year. and more if you count 3rd party. going into next gen this lends me 0 hesitation to buy a ps5. I'd buy be more inclined to buy into xbox's altruistic dream if they actually substantiated their commitment with investing in the present. with an xbox it feels like its always about what console /service theyre releasing next.
 

Clintizzle

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No.


Next gen Foliage:

Cross gen wild life:

Next Gen Wild life:


Cross gen Character models:

Next gen character models:
That's some wild comparisons there my dude.

I think Horizon looks bloody amazing but that foliage comparison is silly as there are two different art approaches.

As for the character comparison, that is also dumb. Master Chief is and always will be a green blob. No amount of next gen will change that.
 
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Yeah, PS4 exclusives didn't start to show up until 2016 with UC4, and everyone seem to forgot that during its first 3 years it had to rely on nothing but cross-gen titles, indie ports form PC/smartphones, and remasters,
That's like not true at all.

Killzone Shadow Fall
Knack
Infamous: Second Son
Driveclub
Bloodborne
The Order 1886
Until Dawn
Ratchet & Clank

Were all released prior to Uncharted 4, weren't cross-gen, weren't indie ports and weren't remasters.
 

Psykodad

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That's some wild comparisons there my dude.

I think Horizon looks bloody amazing but that foliage comparison is silly as there are two different art approaches.

As for the character comparison, that is also dumb. Master Chief is and always will be a green blob. No amount of next gen will change that.
There's the bearded dude in the Halo trailer though. Doesn't look as good as Aloy.
Also, the animations in the Halo trailer look mediocre.
 
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Falc67

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That's some wild comparisons there my dude.

I think Horizon looks bloody amazing but that foliage comparison is silly as there are two different art approaches.

As for the character comparison, that is also dumb. Master Chief is and always will be a green blob. No amount of next gen will change that.
That’s not true. Think about the materials master chief is made out of. It would actually be ‘easier’ to make that look more realistic than say a human character model.
 
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Sony's approach generates a worldwide hype, generate tons of impressive games, it gives me a reason to buy their console and makes me have a unique feeling of appreciation for sony and playstation.

Whereas every time I see something new from xbox, my heart says... I have a gaming pc so whatever and I continue my day either disgusted or like nothing changed.. on top of that i only see a dry line up of games from their studios and if I like something from them it feels like a multiplatform game.
Its not that hard to see that he posts that in EVERY.SINGLE.THREAD.

It's the same line over and over ad naseum:

'Based on the fact that the games shown at the Sony conference looked mostly cross gen and could easily run on PS4 with downscaled effects, i'd say MS has the right approach and more consumer friendly'

Seriously, just have a look at his post history and you will see the above repeated in damn near every post he makes, in any thread. It's trolling in its purest form.
Reviewing people's old posts is the first sign of you being a psychopath. Get help..
 

Redlancet

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But we are still going to release PS3 and PS4 remasters at full price.
ok lets see shadow of the colossus remake was amazing and was a lot of work,they charged way less than full price..nintendo just sell you the wiiu game on switch more expensive..so..
 

JCK75

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XBone and PS4 were the first generation where we saw a huge power/quality bump mid way through the generation, that made me question of generations need to continue being a thing at all when you can just keep with regular upgrades and in time phase out extremely old hardware. Keeping mixed generation makes total sense if you have an Xbox One X, less so with the One/OneS
 
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XBone and PS4 were the first generation where we saw a huge power/quality bump mid way through the generation, that made me question of generations need to continue being a thing at all when you can just keep with regular upgrades and in time phase out extremely old hardware. Keeping mixed generation makes total sense if you have an Xbox One X, less so with the One/OneS
NOW is the time to phase out old hardware. If you are not ready to buy a new machine yet, then just don't buy one yet. It is not Sony's job to only phase out old hardware when you personally decided to move on.

Right now current gen ARE "extremely old hardware". What else are you going to call them? And even Microsoft has discontinued the 1X. Because mid gen upgrades were always meant to be temporary.
 

ZywyPL

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one and PS4 were the first generation where we saw a huge power/quality bump mid way through the generation, that made me question of generations need to continue being a thing at all when you can just keep with regular upgrades and in time phase out extremely old hardware. Keeping mixed generation makes total sense if you have an Xbox One X, less so with the One/OneS
I think that was even one of the main points when considering switching to x86 during PS4/XB1 development, the ease of development for the devs not only for current, but also future consoles and between the platforms was obviously a no-brainer.
 

MrMiyagi

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I still don't get why any gamer would be okay with not having any next gen exclusives for 2 freakin' years. Maybe, Sony's exclusives won't push the ps5 to its limits in the first 2 years, but there IS at least a chance that there will be jaw dropping next gen experiences early on. This is why there's excitement whenever Sony shows something. MS approach to next gen is downright boring and they're taking the whole next gen thrill away from us. I mean how exciting are we supposed to get about next gen when we know for a fact that anything coming out of a MS studio for the next 2 years could have been an Xbox One game, minus the 4k and 120fps.
 

Hobbygaming

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Yeah, PS4 exclusives didn't start to show up until 2016 with UC4, and everyone seem to forgot that during its first 3 years it had to rely on nothing but cross-gen titles, indie ports form PC/smartphones, and remasters, and this gen will obviously be no differ (especially with x86 making everything sooo much easier), no sane publisher will abandon that 150M+ userbase overnight, cross-gen era is about to return once again whether someone likes/denies it or not, but after those initial 2-3 years once majority of the market is onboard of new consoles, this is where the new generation will truly start, and no one will ever remember those initial few transition years.
Killzone was there at launch, Infamous Second Son came out in 2014, Until Dawn, The Order 1886 and Bloodborne in 2015.

The same thing will happen that happens every generation. 1st party studios (for Sony) will make next generation exclusives and most 3rd party studios will make cross-gen games for the 1st few years
 
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ZywyPL

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ne was there at launch, Infamous Second Son came out in 2014, Until Dawn, The Order 1886 and Bloodborne in 2015.

The same thing will happen that happens every generation. 1st party studios (for Sony) will make next generation exclusives and most 3rd party studios will make cross-gen games for the 1st few years
IMO Sony should release PS5 patches for their PS4 titles, to fill the space before they can start rolling out their PS5 titles, I think many people would like to go back to their beloved games but with something like a 60FPS mode, or added RT effects, or stuff like that, while people who completely missed the PS4/XB1 era would have a nice portfolio of "PS5" titles to play.
 

Hobbygaming

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IMO Sony should release PS5 patches for their PS4 titles, to fill the space before they can start rolling out their PS5 titles, I think many people would like to go back to their beloved games but with something like a 60FPS mode, or added RT effects, or stuff like that, while people who completely missed the PS4/XB1 era would have a nice portfolio of "PS5" titles to play.
While it would be nice, I'd be fine with no enhancements just more stable performance for PS4 games. I'd rather all of the time be spent on new PS5 exclusives
 

Psykodad

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NOW is the time to phase out old hardware. If you are not ready to buy a new machine yet, then just don't buy one yet. It is not Sony's job to only phase out old hardware when you personally decided to move on.

Right now current gen ARE "extremely old hardware". What else are you going to call them? And even Microsoft has discontinued the 1X. Because mid gen upgrades were always meant to be temporary.
The funniest thing is that back in 2013, PS4 and XBO were already considered "obsolete hardware" by many gaffers and other tech-fetishists.
 

splattered

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There's the bearded dude in the Halo trailer though. Doesn't look as good as Aloy.
Also, the animations in the Halo trailer look mediocre.
So you're comparing MS earlier in engine footage to HZD more recent CGI footage? Nice.
 

supernova8

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As much as it's annoying ,I doubt we'll see anything game-changing for a while regardless of what Sony and Microsoft say is their policy on cross-gen. If what we hear about the next gen is true, it means game design will change in a profound way, and once that change is compete, we'll see some truly breathtaking stuff.

We can all agree that the jump from Uncharted 3 to Uncharted 4 was amazing, but more interesting is the visual jump from Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 3 despite being on the same platform.

PS4 didn't really have any zingers for a while, although I'd say Infamous Second Son blew me away personally. It's going to be a while before games look massively better.
 
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supernova8

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So you're comparing MS earlier in engine footage to HZD more recent CGI footage? Nice.
I expect they were both in-engine (and both pre-rendered running on target hardware) so it would be a far comparison.

Doesn't mean Xbox Series X is less powerful, more a reflection of the development teams surely?
 

JCK75

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NOW is the time to phase out old hardware. If you are not ready to buy a new machine yet, then just don't buy one yet. It is not Sony's job to only phase out old hardware when you personally decided to move on.

Right now current gen ARE "extremely old hardware". What else are you going to call them? And even Microsoft has discontinued the 1X. Because mid gen upgrades were always meant to be temporary.
It's fine if you want to feel that way, I just have always noticed that many major third party devs have historically wanted to hit the biggest market possible and tended to release a version of the game on existing platforms as well as next gen, the only thing that suffered of was held back was the previous gen version usually being uglier. While I think it may be a mistake to demand they make for both but I don't see it being an issue of the newer gen version suffering or being held back, especially when most third party titles were already being aimed at current gen.
 

SlimySnake

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As much as it's annoying ,I doubt we'll see anything game-changing for a while regardless of what Sony and Microsoft say is their policy on cross-gen. If what we hear about the next gen is true, it means game design will change in a profound way, and once that change is compete, we'll see some truly breathtaking stuff.

We can all agree that the jump from Uncharted 3 to Uncharted 4 was amazing, but more interesting is the visual jump from Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 3 despite being on the same platform.

PS4 didn't really have any zingers for a while, although I'd say Infamous Second Son blew me away personally. It's going to be a while before games look massively better.
Right off the bat, Ryse, KZSF blew me away and then infamous a few months later.

Then DriveClub and Unity later in the fall, then Batman AK (couldnt get over the witcher 3 downgrade) and then almost a year later Uncharted 4 and Ratchet. And we were already in 2016 by then. That's what 6 fancy looking games in 3 years?

now what's going to happen when one of the biggest first party publishers simply doesnt turn up for the first two years? Wouldnt that be worse than current gen? Games also take forever to make. So if they release their first game 3-4 years into the gen, is that the only next gen game they will release this gen?

Also, last gen Sony had several of their AAA studios release games in 2013. SSM made Ascension, Quantic Dream made Beyond, ND made TLOU, and PD shockingly released GT6 after the PS4 launch. This time around most of their studios are already working on next gen games. PD should have GT7 ready by launch or by 2021. insomniac will have Spiderman ready this year and ratchet done by next year. Bluepoint and GG should have their games ready by next year. that's five AAA next gen exclusives in the first year. Sony had only three last gen.

GoW2, Death Stranding 2, Days Gone 2 should be ready by 2022 after having been in dev for 3 years. Add in Silent Hills, and whatever that new studio is working on in San Diego and you have 10 AAA exclusives in the first 2 years compared to just 5 AAA exclusives they managed to release in the first two years of the PS4.
 

MrMiyagi

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It's fine if you want to feel that way, I just have always noticed that many major third party devs have historically wanted to hit the biggest market possible and tended to release a version of the game on existing platforms as well as next gen, the only thing that suffered of was held back was the previous gen version usually being uglier. While I think it may be a mistake to demand they make for both but I don't see it being an issue of the newer gen version suffering or being held back, especially when most third party titles were already being aimed at current gen.
Cross gen games aren't exactly a new phenomena. It's pretty much what's to be expected from the 3rd party developers early on. However, it should be up to the the 1st party studios to showcase what the new hardware is capable off and get us all excited. Even something like Ryze was exciting when we first laid eyes on it. Because when next gen consoles come out, we all want to see them eye-ball-melting next gen games that would set our current console on fire if you tried to run it on there. Not the same stuff we've been playing for 7 years with a bump in resolution and framerate.
 
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BlueXImpulse

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Based on the fact that the games shown at the Sony conference looked mostly cross gen and could easily run on PS4 with downscaled effects, i'd say MS has the right approach and more consumer friendly.

What are people going to say if Halo Infinite(cross gen) looks better than anything shown at the sony event that supposedly can only be done on PS5?
I suppose we'll never find out.

*P.S. Sorry if it's against the rules to bump threads.
 
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I believe in Generations but I disagree that it stifles Innovation.

End of Gen/Cross Gen games tend to create more Innovative games because by this point, they know the Hardware enough to try new things and the Budget would decrease from the pace of knowing how to use the Software over the years.

I would say the beginning of the new Gen is when you see so many safe bets as to get their investment back whilst they learn how the New Consoles and Software works.
 
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mckmas8808

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I have a sneaking suspicion that it will.

As of right now this "We believe in generations" stuff is bogus from Sony. Maybe we'll see some Forbidden West gameplay in August that makes us believe them.
This post did age well.

He's wearing an LGBTQ Xbox shirt? I thought Sony were the woke ones.

I guess Nintendo is our last hope.
So being pro-LGBTQ is bad now? Come on Vawn! You're better than this.
 
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