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[Entroyp]

Seems to me like recent comments from multiple tech saavy people combined with what Halo showed us confirms Xbone will actually cripple game design for MS studios for a few years.

But subscriptions should go up a notch or two so that’s a good sacrifice to make for MS.

They aren’t getting money from me though.

 

[Vawn]

So being pro-LGBTQ is bad now? Come on Vawn! You're better than this.

No, I'm not.

Be whatever you want. But I'm tired of everyone being required to celebrate it.

 

[mckmas8808]

No, I'm not.

Be whatever you want. But I'm tired of everyone being required to celebrate it.

You aren't required to celebrate it. I'm guessing Phil honestly wanted to wear that shirt for his own personal reasons.

 

[NullZ3r0]

Its amazing how Sony gets a pass when trying to force innovation when MS got skewered last Gen.

This is a BS non-story anyways. Games that really take advantage of these machines are a couple of years out for both machines. None of MS big exclusives are cross Gen either. Hood Spiderman and Ratchet look like PS4 Pro games.

 

[Journey]

This is the right approach but Sony doesn't have 10 million GP subs they need to feed. They would sing a different tune if they had more psnow subs.

It's just another cheap answer to a situation. MGS games will also fully move on to the new generation, just not right away. As for 3rd party devs, it's up to them, no one is forced, this is just more Sony propaganda. I think pretty much everyone agrees with MS's approach to consumers. I'm not saying it won't suck for a little while for early XSX adopters, although not all games will suffer from the initial halt of full exclusivity, its just limited to Microsoft Game Studios, but cross gen is good for consumers overall and not just cross gen, but the backward and forward compatibility mentality including all peripherals working across all machines. Bought a new Elite controller for $150 dollars? Yep, it will work with Series X, MS' got you covered. Want to play Panzer Dragoon Orta at 4K/60 with HDR? just pop the disk in or launch it if you own it digitally. You bought Halo Infinite on Xbox One? You can continue playing it on Xbox Series X with all it's enhancements at no extra cost. Sony's approach on the PS4 was to make you re-buy their games for the enhancements, but everyone seems to have short term memory loss about that. smh

 

[RCU005]

Hood Spiderman and Ratchet look like PS4 Pro games

Come on, man! That’s a blatant lie! You know it! It’s fine to like and defend your console of choice, but don’t do it with straight up lies.

Spider-Man: Miles Morales looks 10x better that PS4’s. Just compare the character model for Miles.

The same for Ratchet and Clank. Compare the character models ffs! The lighting is beyond anything that has been done on PS4. Plus, the gameplay mechanic (dimensional rifts) couldn’t even be done on PS4.

So please, don’t just lie! Have objective and true arguments when wanting to discuss.

 

[ZombieNapoleon]

Spider-Man: Miles Morales looks 10x better that PS4’s. Just compare the character model for Miles.

The same for Ratchet and Clank. Compare the character models ffs! The lighting is beyond anything that has been done on PS4. Plus, the gameplay mechanic (dimensional rifts) couldn’t even be done on PS4.

Amen, and I believe the whole reason development kits have been in the wild for years now is so Studios (1st and 3rd) could create games specifically for these consoles.

The whole stance for Sony is yes, drive console sales with an array of games that are Plan A) Designed exclusively for the PS5 or Plan B) Enhanced by the PS5 (this seems to be Microsoft's Plan A). While there is nothing wrong with Plan B or what Microsoft is stating (because hey, even "losing" the console sales war, they're killing it with GP & GP Ultimate), Sony's position pushes studios away from debacles like, as an example, Destiny. Destiny was a game that came out ultimately almost a year after the PS4/Xbox One launch and yet still had PS3 and Xbox 360 versions. The shackles of designing for those machines rather than focusing solely on the new gen held that original title back in terms of design (the story & characters were a separate issue).

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah sony prefer generations, microsoft is more keen to penetration, always the same stuff.

I'm gonna fully believe this when they are gonna show me massive improvements in physics, ia and world interaction thanks to the new cpus.

Only better graphic is not gonna cut this time, they have zero fucking excuses.

 

[iHaunter]

Google Translate: “We believe in selling more hardware.”

How do you want them to do it without selling new hardware? Have a dumpster fire like Infinite? No thanks. I'd rather they ONLY develop games for new hardware without wasting resources optimizing and re-developing for old shit.

 

[geordiemp]

This thread aged well.

Anyone who thought Jaguar and HDD will impress gong forward is drinking that PR ....

Hopefully Jaguar can now rest in piece,

 

[ACESHIGH]

After flight simulator Sony statements look ridiculous. In theory FS is a cross gen game. And no way it's being limited by base Xbox one.

 

[LittleBusters]

So basically cross-gen-gate is another way Sony has found to destroy Microsoft in the upcoming generation.

 

[LittleBusters]

After flight simulator Sony statements look ridiculous. In theory FS is a cross gen game. And no way it's being limited by base Xbox one.

That's because Flight Simulator studio are not idiots, they know how to create the layers in the game so that they can be turned off for lower-power hardware. Apparently 343i has no idea how to do that.

 

[SlimySnake]

After flight simulator Sony statements look ridiculous. In theory FS is a cross gen game. And no way it's being limited by base Xbox one.

Flight simulator runs at 1080p 30 fps on a 6 tflops 580 lol. And thats with a modern CPU. Running it on a 1.3 tflops GPU would require them to cut resolution down by more than 4x. So sub 500k pixels or lower than 540p, the base resolution of the vita and half of 720p.

And again, this is if the jaguar CPUs can handle it which they wont. Watch the dictator video and see the CPUs hes running. those CPUs are far more powerful than the Jaguar CPUs.

We are looking at 480p if we are lucky. And i can promise you, they will NOT port it to xbox one. You can bookmark this post and feel free to serve me crow if they are able to port this to xbox one at anything above 720p.

 

[Entroyp]

So basically cross-gen-gate is another way Sony has found to destroy Microsoft in the upcoming generation.

It turns out 343i is just bad at game graphics...

 

[MasterCornholio]

So basically cross-gen-gate is another way Sony has found to destroy Microsoft in the upcoming generation.

Actually Microsoft did that to themselves with the expectations that they've set.

All Sony did was show games running on a PS5. That's literally it.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

But we've already seen Halo Infinite? Twice.





There aren't clear answers as to what was running what of each trailer, but both were cinematics made with the game engine. And both clips are a year old, so things have probably changed, but that's the engine at least.

Halo is going to look great, but everybody pinning their hopes that some future show is on the horizon which will display "the true next-gen power" of either Xbox Series X or PS5, how about we start living in the now for now...



To be fair, Halo Infinite hasn't shown it's 2020 build, and it might be significantly better again. That said, the idea that MS would have shown Halo Infinite in either 2018 or especially 2019 using Xbox One X-spec footage (it would have been PC/devkit with either example) when the next-gen was being talked about, that doesn't make much sense.

This didn't age well now did it

 

[LittleBusters]

Actually Microsoft did that to themselves with the expectations that they've set.

All Sony did was show games running on a PS5. That's literally it.

It's easier for Sony because they already know PS5 will be a hit out of the gate and don't need to kowtow to PS4 owners. Microsoft can't afford to alienate their smaller install base with the same approach. However they still should have built Halo: Infinite in such a way as the Series X version wouldn't suffer.

 

[CamHostage]

Come on, man! That’s a blatant lie! You know it! It’s fine to like and defend your console of choice, but don’t do it with straight up lies.

Spider-Man: Miles Morales looks 10x better that PS4’s. Just compare the character model for Miles.

The same for Ratchet and Clank. Compare the character models ffs! The lighting is beyond anything that has been done on PS4. Plus, the gameplay mechanic (dimensional rifts) couldn’t even be done on PS4.

Yeah, if somebody wanted to say these games look to them like "PS4 Pro-Pro" or "PS4 Pro X" or something imaginary like that, I guess?

Both are very likely being made with variants of old engines, and just on resolution and texture quality increase, the step up is not necessarily unlike what you'll be getting from cross-gen Xbox Series X games (or cross-gen PS5 games, for that matter.)

But then you look at what the games are doing and the complexity of the character models for Ratchet and Clank (it's still shocking that it's possible an order-of-magnitude improvement could be made over the already-gorgeous PS4 R&C) and then absolutely the gameplay of Rift Apart, it's a generational difference that even another mid-gen console upgrade couldn't bring without a divide of the architecture.



(Sharing this mostly for the thumbnail, but it looks like it does a good job lining up comparison shots)

This didn't age well now did it

Ha, I suppose not...

My point, though, was that expecting Halo Infinite to blow away anything in either Sony or Microsoft's previous showcase was senseless since we had already seen what Microsoft was targeting for Halo Infinite. Little did we know how badly they would miss the target.

 

[Geki-D]

I expect Halo Infinite to be the console's visual showcase at launch

I was so, so wrong. I take it all back.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I was so, so wrong. I take it all back.

I was wrong as well. I was actually shocked at how undeveloped the game looks.

 

[RaySoft]

This "We believe in Generations" talk from Sony would hold a lot more weight if the games releasing on PS5 this Holiday didn't just look like higher resolution PS4 games. Hell, the most anticipated upcoming PS5 title is Spiderman: Miles Morales which by all intents and purposes is a glorified expansion that will be approximately 1/3 the content of the first game. Look at the screenshots of the game and tell me it can't be done on PS4.

PS5:

PS4 PRO:

You compare a PS4 Pro pic against a launch PS5 pic and states it only looks like higher resolution. I guess the first spiderman game uses checkerboarding, but compared to a raw 4K image it's not that noticable difference. Maybe, just maybe, there are other effects that makes you perceive the PS5 pic as "just" higher resolution?

 

[danielJackson]

So being pro-LGBTQ is bad now? Come on Vawn! You're better than this.

Imagine that tall people would start to have parades, people would spam tall-people-flag all around, demanding more for them than short people. Calling out people as tallphobic whom dont praise tall people.

That is lgbtq basically (turning something normal into abnormal)

They want to be normal/treated as normal, yet also Screaming for attention "we are not normal!"

At least in my country 95% dont care whom you like or what you wear, so it is ridiculous attention whoring to spam their agenda like religion.

So yeah, it can be bad, because this movement wont care about anything else but getting attention, not about being treated like others, as they already are

(Tall, fat, skinny, ugly, stupid, smart, all get shit equally so they should not be exception, it is normal to get some shit in life no matter what you are. Taking it too personally makes it stupid).

I dont care what people like or are, but I dislike people whom try to make themselves better/more special than others, which that movement does

On topic: generations are what pushes games and tech, not sticking to old hardware and dragging it along.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah sony prefer generations, microsoft is more keen to penetration, always the same stuff.

I'm gonna fully believe this when they are gonna show me massive improvements in physics, ia and world interaction thanks to the new cpus.

Only better graphic is not gonna cut this time, they have zero fucking excuses.

Horizon is doing A LOT of improvements in physics and A.I. World interaction remains to be seen, but if these are all simulations instead of just faked texture effects then you are going to see these simulations with proper physics properties.

For instance, look at the ocean in this scene. Yes, the water looks amazing, but look at the waves. if those are actual waves governed by a simulation then they will have an impact on Aloy as she tries to go deeper into the ocean.

In this shot, we can see that the thousands of fish grouped together and they disperse as they should.

You can see some fancy cloud simulations here. This is clearly more than just volumetric clouds, and likely governed by a cpu simulation.

So it's not like they are not doing anything with the CPU. I just think they arent ready to show it all off yet. I also want to see destruction on a massive scale in Horizon. I want trees and foliage catching fire, getting torn apart and just all around carnage when im done fighting some dinobots.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Welp, Halo Infinite (cross gen) will finally be unveiled in about 5 days. What will be the excuse if it ends up looking better than any game shown at the sony event?

Also, nothing at the sony event wowed me. Most of them looked like cross gen games that could easily run on a PS4 with downscaling of effects,loading etc.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it will.

As of right now this "We believe in generations" stuff is bogus from Sony. Maybe we'll see some Forbidden West gameplay in August that makes us believe them.

Nonsense. Most of the games shown at the sony event could have been mistaken for cross gen games. Many of those games could run on PS4 with downscaling of resolution, loading,no ray tracing etc..

Halo Infinite(cross gen) is proof of this if it actually ends up looking better than any of the games shown at the sony event, including 1st party. I have a suspicion that it will.

So these all aged SPECTACULARLY.

 

[NEbeast]

After flight simulator Sony statements look ridiculous. In theory FS is a cross gen game. And no way it's being limited by base Xbox one.

Isn't FS PC then XSX at a later date.

 

[The Hamburglar]

So these all aged SPECTACULARLY.

I’m convinced Eastwood is the biggest xboy on here

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Reviewing people's old posts is the first sign of you being a psychopath. Get help..

Yeah i've reported you to the mods. Seems you have a history of antagonizing others.
Thanks for making this process easy.

 

[Lestat Phoenix]

Yeah i've reported you to the mods. Seems you have a history of antagonizing others.
Thanks for making this process easy.

Just speaking the truth Tiny Tim.

 

[GymWolf]

Horizon is doing A LOT of improvements in physics and A.I. World interaction remains to be seen, but if these are all simulations instead of just faked texture effects then you are going to see these simulations with proper physics properties.

For instance, look at the ocean in this scene. Yes, the water looks amazing, but look at the waves. if those are actual waves governed by a simulation then they will have an impact on Aloy as she tries to go deeper into the ocean.

In this shot, we can see that the thousands of fish grouped together and they disperse as they should.

You can see some fancy cloud simulations here. This is clearly more than just volumetric clouds, and likely governed by a cpu simulation.

So it's not like they are not doing anything with the CPU. I just think they arent ready to show it all off yet. I also want to see destruction on a massive scale in Horizon. I want trees and foliage catching fire, getting torn apart and just all around carnage when im done fighting some dinobots.

dude, not to sound rude, but i don't give 2 fucks about clouds, sea simulation and fish IA and if they are using the cpu for this instead of other major things like destruction and the stuff you suggest i'm gonna be VERY disappointed.

they need to have their priorities straight and clouds\fish\sea is not how you show a damn ryzen cpu at work imo, these are secondary if not tertiary things.

give me every rock and trees and small structures completely destructible, give me dynamic dinobot destruction (with proper ragdoll this time), give me massive battles between tribes or dinobot with many ia on screen, give me a major dinobot ecosystem not the damn fishes with 200 of IQ.

 

[Esca]

There's nothing to believe in. It's simple there are new generations. Just because ms is trying some weird market tactic to make people think they aren't a thing is nuts, didn't mean that generations don't exist

 

[SlimySnake]

dude, not to sound rude, but i don't give 2 fucks about clouds, sea simulation and fish IA and if they are using the cpu for this instead of other major things like destruction and the stuff you suggest i'm gonna be VERY disappointed.

they need to have their priorities straight and clouds\fish\sea is not how you show a damn ryzen cpu at work imo, these are secondary if not tertiary things.

give me every rock and trees and small structures completely destructible, give me dynamic dinobot destruction (with proper ragdoll this time), give me massive battles between tribes or dinobot with many ia on screen, give me a major dinobot ecosystem not the damn fishes with 200 of IQ.

It all adds up. If they are adding all those simulations, i am guessing they are doing it for the sake of immersion. It would be weird to go through all the trouble of creating all that and then skimp out on destruction.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So these all aged SPECTACULARLY.

How so? Nothing has changed.

 

[LittleBusters]

You have to hand it to Sony. Thin gruel this time, finding a wedge against Microsoft with cross-gen-gate. Nothing like the ICBMs Microsoft gave them in 2013, but still weaponized.

 

[GymWolf]

It all adds up. If they are adding all those simulations, i am guessing they are doing it for the sake of immersion. It would be weird to go through all the trouble of creating all that and then skimp out on destruction.

maybe creating this stuff in the trailer is easier than making all the stuff i cited (it most probably is)

 

[DeepEnigma]

I’m convinced Eastwood is the biggest xboy on here

I wonder if his first name is Colt?

 

[Vawn]

This didn't age well now did it

"Sure. It's not game play, but it's in-engine, so this is what will look like."

Gee, what other game do we hear this about? Maybe one that will be in an engine that won't even be available until 2021?

 

[DarkBatman]

You have to hand it to Sony. Thin gruel this time, finding a wedge against Microsoft with cross-gen-gate. Nothing like the ICBMs Microsoft gave them in 2013, but still weaponized.

You know MS also tried to weaponize the NEXT-GEN ONLY strategy against Sony, right? All the talk about "console exclusives were counter to what gaming is meant to be about."
So it's basically the good old console war marketing talk, so it's not like Sony is the only company trying to attack the opponent.

 

[MasterCornholio]

How so? Nothing has changed.

What hasn't changed?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What hasn't changed?

Sonys PS5 games showcase.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sonys PS5 games showcase.

What exactly though because I'm not following you.

 

[Journey]

How do you want them to do it without selling new hardware? Have a dumpster fire like Infinite? No thanks. I'd rather they ONLY develop games for new hardware without wasting resources optimizing and re-developing for old shit.

Halo Infinite is a dumpster fire now? Holy shit, the trolling level has reached "Infinite"

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What exactly though because I'm not following you.

My original statement was in reference to Sony's PS5 games.

They looked like prettied up PS4 games, and then people would say "Not Ratchet!" and then I would say "Looks like more Ratchet to me."

Now apparently, after the XBox show, Sony's games don't look like prettied up PS4 games? Not sure how much thinking is going on here.

 

[Azelover]

Optimization can make a difference. That's something I have been thinking about, ever since MS announced they would do the cross-gen thing.

 

[MasterCornholio]

My original statement was in reference to Sony's PS5 games.

They looked like prettied up PS4 games, and then people would say "Not Ratchet!" and then I would say "Looks like more Ratchet to me."

Now apparently, after the XBox show, Sony's games don't look like prettied up PS4 games? Not sure how much thinking is going on here.

I think that's all subjective. I watched Sonys PS5 reveal and I do believe they have next gen looking games in it. Like Ratchet and Horizon Zero Dawn for example.

When it comes to Microsoft event their biggest title doesn't even look like a current gen game in many ways in my opinion. However they did have other titles that looked better than it.

Unfortunately the biggest difference between the two is that Sony made the claim that everything was captured on a PS5. With Microsofts event I haven't seen any claim that the game was running on the XSX. That alone makes the Sony event more interesting to me because I have an idea on what the games will look like on the actual hardware.

Just my opinion though.

 

[JTCx]

I’m convinced Eastwood is the biggest xboy on here

Hes pretty tame compared to some of the other folks here

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Scaling across major disparities in GPU power can waste cycles with pipeline stalls, effectively leaving teraflops on the table with the next generation. This is one of the possible side effects of a Lockhart + XSX strategy. This generation asynchronous compute was used for all sorts of tasks from animation and simulation to procedural placement, which of course improves GPU utilization. Not all workloads will scale well because they do not all depend upon the pixels pushed, effectively limiting innovation.

Pipeline stall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ShadowWolf712]

My original statement was in reference to Sony's PS5 games.

They looked like prettied up PS4 games, and then people would say "Not Ratchet!" and then I would say "Looks like more Ratchet to me."

Now apparently, after the XBox show, Sony's games don't look like prettied up PS4 games? Not sure how much thinking is going on here.

You said you had a suspicion that Halo was going to reveal Sony's "We believe in generations" talk to be nonsense when it looked even better than their games.

...which has aged poorly.

And honestly, you really think Ratchet & clank could be the same game without the rapid loading? The game's being built around the concept, fam. They'd have to make an entirely separate game, a completely different experience, on PS4.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You said you had a suspicion that Halo was going to reveal Sony's "We believe in generations" talk to be nonsense when it looked even better than their games.

...which has aged poorly.

Yeah Halo was supposed to be proof that you can support both gens and still have a Next Gen looking game on the most powerful system.

 

[Freeman]

Imagine if PS2 games were crossgen with PS1 or PS3 games were crossgen with PS2.

I like the concept of generation and I'll take as little crossgen as possible please, only release crossgen games that were already long in development for current gen.