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[KiNolin]

In terms of CG, this looks like it came out before 1995. For a video game, it is amazing, but comparing to even a 1995 CG is grand hyperbole.

The pictures on the left look better. I mean, for the amount of texture details alone games have long surpassed sterile/creepy 90s CG. Toy Story 1 is not a pleasant looking thing.

 

[VariantX]

We're at the point that we can say this is "good enough" I think. It's still quite flat looking compared to the old movie. About a couple of generations of hardware could get us there hopefully.

 

[Falchion]

It does look mind blowing good. Even the fight outside in the grass was beautiful.

 

[Paz]

texture res is much better, geometry detail is close but not there, shadows are a long ways off (especially in terms of interactions between objects and dynamic objects like characters), image quality is maybe half way to where it needs to be.

Overall we are at least one full generation away from reaching Toy Story visuals in every category.

 

[kinggroin]

Environment lighting looks more nuanced in TS1, polygon counts still a lot higher, and shadows (baked or not) look better.


Everything else, KH3 beats it. I'm seriously blown away how far we've come here. Especially materials shading. Geeze.

 

[LordKasual]

Everyone talking about lighting is missing the bigger picture...All things considered, in animation, this game looks alot better than Toy Story 1.

When you look at their facial animation, it becomes alot more apparent

 

[Bubba_Sparks]

Animated movies like Toy Story use ray-tacing correct?

Edit:

Realtime graphics has certainly come a long way though, obviously.

To be fair, this is real-time graphics targeting an Xbox One / PS4 at 1080p. It would be interesting to see a game targeting an i7 7700K, 16Gb of RAM and a GTX 1080 TI. I would imagine you could make it look considerably closer.

 

[lyrick]

In terms of CG, this looks like it came out before 1995. For a video game, it is amazing, but comparing to even a 1995 CG is grand hyperbole.

It's definitely not there there yet.

I guess they'll have to try again in another 22 years.

 

[gofreak]

It looks very good, but there's noticeable image quality differences. Texture clarity (at distance, at least), edge aliasing, shader aliasing, the quality of the depth of field effect are all giveaways, lighting differences aside. The geometry complexity also doesn't seem to be quite there yet. Realtime graphics has certainly come a long way though, obviously.

 

[Nepenthe]

I have to wonder why we keep using Toy Story 1 as the benchmark. Chasing after a standard from 1995 seems kind of...sad?

On top of that, surely in real-time games- not necessarily KHIII- we've achieved graphical fidelity that blows Toy Story out of the water. Like, does Horizon not look better on most if not all fronts?

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I have to wonder why we keep using Toy Story 1 as the benchmark. Chasing after a standard from 1995 seems kind of...sad?

It's not sad at all. Let's step back for a second here.

Toy Story 1 was rendered on huge server farms that could spend DAYS on a single frame.

Kingdom Hearts III is rendered on a single $400 box that must produce 30 frames every second.

 

[McNum]

It's pretty close. But it's no realtime raytracing. The lighting in Toy Story is just not possible to do in realtime yet, mainly because it just doesn't cheat. Material properties and rays of light. Nothing more, nothing less. Rex is the obvious stand out. That's a texture, in the movie, his scales are modeled. And Woody's arms don't look like fabric when really close.

Still this looks pretty impressive for realtime rendering. Good effort and all. And remember we are comparing realtime with "takes several hours per frame" here. Getting this close is commendable.

 

[Damerman]

"WE" DID IT

We're all one race, the human race.

 

[SystemBug]

It's not sad at all. Toy Story 1 was rendered on huge server farms and could spend DAYS in a single frame.

Kingdom Hearts three is rendered on a single $400 box which must produce 30 frames every single second.

Yeah but a lot of things have improved. Modelling toolset has gotten better, texture pipelines have gotten better. Our understanding of CG lighting has gotten better. Toy Story 1 has very basic lighting for the most part with very simple materials and textures.

 

[DemWalls]

Aspects such as IQ will likely never be surpassed by real time graphics, but in general we've been past Toy Story level for years now.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

So how long until the downgrade outrage threads?

 

[kinggroin]

Toy Story 1 wasn't ray traced I thought. Ray tracing didn't start until Monsters University or some such

 

[Piers]

So how long until the downgrade outrage threads?

In some aspects it's already happened a while back with the first E3 trailer, when people realised how low poly the models looked compared to the "Now in Development" teaser.

 

[mickagau33]

It does look amazing but you can see the geometry is not totaly on par yet. Toy Story the movie has some perfecly round shapes...not KH3, you can still see some polygons missing to get that perfectly smooth shape rendering.

 

[Insane Metal]

We're all one race, the human race.

...which isn't a race at all.

 

[stargateheaven]

How come "WE" did it? The consumers have nothing to do with it.

"WE" is not referring to the consumers.

you know "we" landed on the moon right?

 

[Astral Dog]

The lightning is still isn't there (yet).

I think lightning in modern videogames is far prettier than 90s CGI movies.Toy Story or not, though artstyle and inyeraction has a lot to do with it

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Am i the only one who HATED how Toy Story 1 looked? it looked so bad compared to traditional 2d movies...




I can agree on the number of polygons, but all the rest is developer's fault, please don't tell me that modern games can't do something way better looking than that shitty Toy Story bedroom, also with a good use of PBR everything should look better by default.

You're insulting a render from 1995.

There are Gaffers younger than this movie.

 

[Spinluck]

Now work on that CG level lighting.

Spider-Man PS4 has some of the best in game lighting I've seen for a console game.

 

[Blam]

Actually that looks better then Toy Story tbh, but they look bullshit. Unless it's on a PC.

 

[Nepenthe]

It's not sad at all. Let's step back for a second here.

Toy Story 1 was rendered on huge server farms that could spend DAYS on a single frame.

Kingdom Hearts III is rendered on a single $400 box that must produce 30 frames every second.

But Toy Story is no different from any other fully CGI product in that vein beyond simply being the first one to be feature length. Why Toy Story and not something later, or even before like Tin Toy? As I said, hasn't shit like HZD and even Ryse surpassed Toy Story already? What is the logic in using Toy Story as the permanent benchmark for where games are finally "movie quality?"

Spoiler

Especially in a world where pre-rendering is also improving,
thereby making Toy Story the benchmark that much more dated since Toy Story itself is dated as fuck as a result too?

 

[_Rob_]

But Toy Story is no different from any other fully CGI product in that vein beyond simply being the first one to be feature length. Why Toy Story and not something later, or even before like Tin Toy? As I said, hasn't shit like HZD and even Ryse surpassed Toy Story already? What is the logic in using Toy Story as the permanent benchmark for where games are finally "movie quality?"

Spoiler

Especially in a world where pre-rendering is also improving,
thereby making Toy Story the benchmark that much more dated since Toy Story itself is dated as fuck as a result too?

Toy Story was the first proper 3D animated full length movie. Proving that not only was it a possibility, but a profitable new use of technology. It set the benchmark. Sure it's been surpassed since, but to be able to compare a real-time rendered game to something so groundbreaking only 20ish years later is pretty impressive.

 

[Stabby McSter]

But Toy Story is no different from any other fully CGI product in that vein beyond simply being the first one to be feature length. Why Toy Story and not something later, or even before like Tin Toy? As I said, hasn't shit like HZD and even Ryse surpassed Toy Story already? What is the logic in using Toy Story as the permanent benchmark for where games are finally "movie quality?"

Spoiler

Especially in a world where pre-rendering is also improving,
thereby making Toy Story the benchmark that much more dated since Toy Story itself is dated as fuck as a result too?

I don't think there's any logic behind using "Toy Story" as the quintessential benchmark besides a quote or two from the early 2000's saying the hardware could do Toy Story in real-time.

so basically it's a running joke

 

[Piers]

But Toy Story is no different from any other fully CGI product in that vein beyond simply being the first one to be feature length. Why Toy Story and not something later, or even before like Tin Toy? As I said, hasn't shit like HZD and even Ryse surpassed Toy Story already? What is the logic in using Toy Story as the permanent benchmark for where games are finally "movie quality?"

Spoiler

Especially in a world where pre-rendering is also improving,
thereby making Toy Story the benchmark that much more dated since Toy Story itself is dated as fuck as a result too?

I think the logic is mostly what the poster had said — it took ages for a single frame to render what Toy Story had, so people can't believe that today's current hardware can match the same visual tech back then at 30x in one second.
To put it another way it's a debate between tech vs visuals.

 

[Kyonashi]

For reference, this is the Toy Story game that came out on Mega Drive/SNES in 1995:

 

[2+2=5]

You're insulting a render from 1995.

There are Gaffers younger than this movie.

Innovation/power and aesthetics are 2 very different and unrelated things, i will never deny the importance of Toy Story, but don't ask me to say it looked good.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Aspects such as IQ will likely never be surpassed by real time graphics, but in general we've been past Toy Story level for years now.

Never? Of course they will, look at how far we've come in the past 20 years.

But Toy Story is no different from any other fully CGI product in that vein beyond simply being the first one to be feature length. Why Toy Story and not something later, or even before like Tin Toy? As I said, hasn't shit like HZD and even Ryse surpassed Toy Story already? What is the logic in using Toy Story as the permanent benchmark for where games are finally "movie quality?"

Spoiler

Especially in a world where pre-rendering is also improving,
thereby making Toy Story the benchmark that much more dated since Toy Story itself is dated as fuck as a result too?

I think it all started back in the PS2 days when Sony advertised that it was capable of producing "real time" Toy Story like graphics.

 

[LeleSocho]

Toy Story level? sure if you are blind i guess.
I could fool the random bystander but as soon as you look into it a bit deeper you can see that stuff like polycount is still far far away.

Looks good enough to make it look like they almost reached that level though.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Stop talking about Lightning it's Toy Story not Cars.

 

[msdstc]

LOL "literally"

The reactions in this thread are exactly like any target render vs. actual game discussions, most notably the motorstorm e3 05 and final release, and of course killzone 2 comparisons, complete with "the final product actually looks better! The render was ugly!"

 

[almostjuliuscaesar]

KH3, history maker

 

[kinggroin]

I think lightning in modern videogames is far prettier than 90s CGI movies.Toy Story or not, though artstyle and inyeraction has a lot to do with it

Wtf is lightning? What lightning?


I see this a LOT here. People referring to lighting as lightning. Is this a meme?

For reference, this is the Toy Story game that came out on Mega Drive/SNES in 1995:

Better shadows than KH Toy Story.

 

[jett]

The grass and textures are definitely better than 1995.

Near everything is better than 1995.

People getting hung up on a few details are missing the forest for the trees. The overall picture is frankly aeons more pleasing to look at than the original Toy Story.

 

[kinggroin]

Near everything is better than 1995.

People getting hung up on a few details are missing the forest for the trees.

Those few details equate to massive gains in overall image quality and complexity. Literally no one is taking anything away from the game's impressiveness, just simply challenging what the OP asserted. We are geeks, and this is a fun exercise after all.

The overall picture is frankly aeons more pleasing to look at than the original Toy Story.

I respectfully disagree.

Parts are better (outside grass, materials shading), but it's way flatter looking on the inside room scenes and gives it a very drab and dull look.

 

[Chezzymann]

When talking about lighting people need to realize that in games lots of this stuff is baked in, yeah sure artistically its better simply because new technology and techniques in modern day allow for more creative freedom. But we're still not at the point where you can render the equivalent of one toy story frame 30 times per second.

 

[Philippo]

I expected this thread the moment they announced the world lol

 

[jett]

Those few details equate to massive gains in overall image quality and complexity. Literally no one is taking anything away from the game's impressiveness, just simply challenging what the OP asserted. We are geeks, and this is a fun exercise after all.

Fun fact: the original Toy Story was rendered at a resolution lower than 1080p (1,536 by 922 ) when it was originally released. If we actually had this available (and not the re-rendered blu-ray) I think the image quality side of the conversation would be different.

 

[Krayz]

Toy Story 1 has no ambient occlusion

That alone to me, makes KH3 look better.

 

[Greenzxy]

In terms of ploy count, reflections, and darker shadows, sure toy story 1 has it made.

But when it comes to global illumination, animation, and general aesthetics, I'm going to obviously give it to KHIII.

There's no way this looks like something that came out in 1995, FOH with that nonsense. It looks like toy story 3 if you were to drop settings on medium.

 

[nOoblet16]

This is not news, people should've taken hints that we've surpassed it in several easy back when Ratchet and Clank came out.

It's pretty but the lighting doesn't quite look the same.

That's what I was thinking as well.

That's because lighting and materials in the original is dated and the game actually has more advanced lighting/materials with PBR and such. Over time lighting in CG industry improved to account for proper materials and such. Compare it to Toy Story 3 and you'll see the point I'm trying to make.

Current gen graphics easily surpass Toy Story 1 in terms of textures, materials, lighting, shading and shadowing. The only area where it still has it best is geometry and that's because Toy Story doesn't really uses poly counts and as such direct comparisons can't be made but in terms of how 'round' something looks you'll still find Toy Story 1 to be 'round'.

In terms of ploy count, reflections, and dare shadows, sure toy story 1 has it made.

But when it comes to global illumination, animation, and general aesthetics, I'm going to obviously give it to KHIII.

There's no way this looks like something that came out in 1995, FOH with that nonsense. It looks like toy story 3 if you were to drop settings on medium.

Toy Story 1 actually has quite mixed quality shadows, self shadows are nice as are a lot of other shadows, but often you'll also come across really poor shadows (especially outdoors). The others I'll give it to you. Reflections in Toy Story isnt much of a reflection but rather just redrawing what they have twice. Games can do this and many do, but not everywhere as it's obviously expensive. As for polycount..I talked about it in the previous part.

 

[Host Samurai]

Crazy how good U4 engine looks compared to U3 from an aesthetic standpoint.

 

[Astral Dog]

We're at the point that we can say this is "good enough" I think. It's still quite flat looking compared to the old movie. About a couple of generations of hardware could get us there hopefully.

Just imagine the time and budget it would take D:

 

[nOoblet16]

Animated movies like Toy Story use ray-tacing correct?

The first Pixar movie (and perhaps the first feature length CG movie) to ever use ray tracing was Cars. They didn't use it in movies before that. Toy Story 1, Toy Story 2, Finding Nemo, The Incredible certainly do not use ray tracing. TS1 also lacks ambient occlusion and any form of GI.

 

[kinggroin]

Fun fact: the original Toy Story was rendered at a resolution lower than 1080p (1,536 by 922 ) when it was originally released. If we actually had this available (and not the re-rendered blu-ray) I think the image quality side of the conversation would be different.

I'm aware it was that resolution on release, but it was also going to be played on sub-HD equipment. There was no mainstream HD option, so rendering higher wasn't necessary. Even still, it had zero aliasing and all the other things that put it up over the PS4 version.

On the surface, they are close to each other. At least with what little we have to compare.

If there was a PS4 version of the film rendered in real time, but with these newer models, I'd say it would have more victories over the original than it does atm. So there's that.

Right now we are just comparing this slice.

Honestly, I find something like say, Zero Horizon more impressive anyway.

Edit: a God of War movie done with the new engine on PS4 would smoke Toy Story 1. So the point is, overall, we surpassed OG TS1. This thread is just a continuation of a silly benchmark. Like, "Can it run Crysis?".

 

[mnannola]

It's always the lighting / shadows that seems to give away these types of comparisons. Everything else is spot on.