I think people are missing that Elsie discovered something else when she was grabbed, even after naming Teresa.
It's possibly Ford or Bernard's culpability.
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
I think people are missing that Elsie discovered something else when she was grabbed, even after naming Teresa.
It's possibly Ford or Bernard's culpability.
Hector was in the room with Theresa and Hale during that conversation.
MiamiWesker
Member
Oh you know what I mean. How can the grand majority be super positive last week and now be very negative right after. We go through some extreme mood swings at times, not just this thread of course.
They'll probably reveal that full interaction with Bernard. Or maybe she is the copy?
Things little talked about this ep
- security guy clearly knew Bernard and Theresa were shaggin . Looks like Ford cleaned the tracks too well. First mistake I've seen
- Maeve fighting back even before Arnold intervention, getting memory erased, but then coming back on remembering.... means these problems with hosts have been going on for at least a year before fords update
- teddy remembering shit he's not supposed to implies this is happening to all hosts to some degree
Can't wait for Arnold reveal. It's the one mystery that still seems hard to call at this point. Not enough info
Operations
Member
Because she found out that someone with very high level access was tampering with the hosts?
andythinkpad
Member
The more I think about the Bernard firing event, the more I think Theresa going along with Bernard doesn't make sense. Theresa is part of the hostile take over fraction who used tricks to get Bernard fired.
Maybe Theresa doesn't know Bernard would get fired, but it doesn't matter. The moment Bernard gets fired is the moment Team Ford and Team Board go to war. Bernard got fired percisely becuase he is a (potential) member of Team Ford. And girl you have already out yourself as part of Team Board. You can't go back and pretend you are still friend with Bernard and hang out after work!
As far as corporate politic goes is very sloppy. Also the writing is sloppy in the sense that Theresa is clearly missing a tech pawn in the storyline to reprogram the robots for her. She is clearly not a tech.
A lot of this sci-fi show's problems are from the writers who don't appear to have tech backgrounds.
Maybe Theresa doesn't know Bernard would get fired, but it doesn't matter. The moment Bernard gets fired is the moment Team Ford and Team Board go to war. Bernard got fired percisely becuase he is a (potential) member of Team Ford. And girl you have already out yourself as part of Team Board. You can't go back and pretend you are still friend with Bernard and hang out after work!
As far as corporate politic goes is very sloppy. Also the writing is sloppy in the sense that Theresa is clearly missing a tech pawn in the storyline to reprogram the robots for her. She is clearly not a tech.
A lot of this sci-fi show's problems are from the writers who don't appear to have tech backgrounds.
Curt Baboon
Member
Ed Harris is amazing, too. The acting in general is THE thing about the show so far.
Seeing dipshit Logan return as the leader of the Confederados got a big laugh out of me for some reason. I think he's the second dumbest character after the redhead butcher. So of course he returns as the leader of the guys who were gonna kill him. And of course he's in love with it because he's a total moron.
At least we won't lose all the best actors in shock deaths like in Game of Thrones.
Mr. Bad Example
Neo Member
"You know, Maeve, we really are the Arnold of us."
elrechazado
Banned
I really like Ed Harris, but beyond liking him I don't see much amazing acting there personally. He's pretty incredibly one-note. Bernard and Hopkins and papa Abernathy have been my personal acting standouts. And Evan Rachel wood.
I asked this before. But which are the same people being super positive last week and very negative this week?
elrechazado
Banned
I mean, isn't that what the park is supposed to do? If that was a quest in red dead or mass effect, of course you could black hat your way to leading that gang.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I don't get why Ed Harris would open up to the hosts, knowing that he's basically divulging information to Ford, who we assume he is working against, in the process. I understand he has close attachment to a bunch of them and pities them - but it still seemed out of character.
So I finally caught up to the show last night.
I see the theories and see how William is probably MIB but I don't get why MIB would torture or rape Dolores in the current timeline if he actually fell in love with her 30 years ago?
I get all the complaints about the Maeve storyline too and the complete lack of security or oversight while complete oversight over issues like spilled milk. Still show is fascinating and I can't stop watching.
I see the theories and see how William is probably MIB but I don't get why MIB would torture or rape Dolores in the current timeline if he actually fell in love with her 30 years ago?
I get all the complaints about the Maeve storyline too and the complete lack of security or oversight while complete oversight over issues like spilled milk. Still show is fascinating and I can't stop watching.
Moff
Member
we didn't actually see him do that. we will probably see in the finale what really happened in that barn
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
MIB confirmed there are other Westworlds last night, right?
GarthVaderUK
Banned
In their first scene together post firing, Bernard tells her he knows what she did to try to get rid of Ford (clearly Bernard was not her intended target so it's not like she really hates him) and then he drops the info that he knows Ford is up to something and he needs to show her. Her aim and the aim of the board is ultimately to find a way of getting rid of Ford while preserving the host data, so that's why she goes with him - to see if he's got something on Ford that she can use. Plus, we then discover Bernard is only saying this because Ford told him to, in order to get her out on her own for some clobberin' time. She has no reason to hold resentment towards Bernard, so hears him out because she thinks he can help with the Ford problem - if Bernard had his own free will he probably would resent her and maybe wouldn't approach her with the info, but he's simply doing as instructed by Ford.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
It never actually showed him torturing or raping her - we don't know what happens in that barn. But I think that the trauma allows them to remember past iterations and his ultimate goal is setting them free.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
OK, I wasn't feeling this episode that much. The MiB exposition seemed out of place for some reason. I hope it makes sense when more information is revealed later.
The Maeve story hit a high point back in that episode where she discovered all of her previous drawings of techs in suits. Very creepy and a great "oh shit!" moment. Everything after that has been a little lackluster, however. Thandie's acting is superb but I wish that they wrote it in a different way.
The handling of Theresa post-death was a little odd too, I thought. Hopkins and Wright's acting is great, but the coverup scenes and other accompanying scenes felt off to me. I was hoping they were going to go with a kind of body-snatchers type of story by replacing Theresa with a host.
The Maeve story hit a high point back in that episode where she discovered all of her previous drawings of techs in suits. Very creepy and a great "oh shit!" moment. Everything after that has been a little lackluster, however. Thandie's acting is superb but I wish that they wrote it in a different way.
The handling of Theresa post-death was a little odd too, I thought. Hopkins and Wright's acting is great, but the coverup scenes and other accompanying scenes felt off to me. I was hoping they were going to go with a kind of body-snatchers type of story by replacing Theresa with a host.
TimeEffect
Member
Ah I guess it's Elsie that is being made in Ford's basement. Though everything pointed to Theresa, since Bernard studied her so...intimately
sems4arsenal
Member
Agreed that the whole MIB=William thing was too expected and a bit of a letdown to see it confirmed.
Wonder what happened to Logan though.
I have no idea what happened when dolores and William went the that old town that wasn't built yet, is that the maze?
Wonder what happened to Logan though.
I have no idea what happened when dolores and William went the that old town that wasn't built yet, is that the maze?
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Yes, big time, and I was just thinking it gets the same feels out of me as The Leftovers earlier when watching the latest ep.
Loving this show, does my head in.
yeah that's what I am thinking now. She needs to be back so Hemsworth can be appeased.
Operations
Member
Is it confirmed though? We see Dolores having flashbacks in William's timeline. So unless there are three timelines something doesn't add up.
Jag
Member
I'm starting to get more of a BSG type vibe. With the hosts as cylons and plots within plots ultimately pointing to the fact that the writers will eventually paint themselves into a corner they can't get out of.
Loved BSG and still love WW, just seeing some parallels.
Yeah it really isn't confirmed.
And honestly the scene with the church being buried sort of suggests william /= mib.
That whole sequence is weird though. Dolores is clearly a very unreliable narrator by her own admission. She doesn't know what's real so it's hard to make any definitive conclusions about any timelines.
The entrance host being a part of the new narrative also doesn't confirm anything. She may have been role swapped specifically for the new narrative.
My money is on the Dolores william timeline not being 30ish years ago. There is an alt timeline but mib isn't william.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Or he uncovers everything and then says "Doesn't look like anything to me."
Maintenance
Member
Kinda starting to believe that too.
...
They are going to do that aren't they?
Hahaha damn you guys are cynical about the show right now.
I don't think there will be another "___ is secretly a host" reveals. You can't go back to that well.
Discotheque
Banned
if anybody would be a believable android it is a hemsworth brother.
Teletraan1
Banned
Perhaps they don't need as much micro security on the site because there is a seemingly effective macro security in place which has been hinted at by the butchers and reinforced by the fact that this IP has not been stolen in 30+ years. This is probably a very remote location (possibly off world) requiring transport to and from. It was Hovercrafts (lol) in the the original movie. It isn't like getting fired from some corporation in NYC and be right out the door with whatever if they had no security.
MiamiWesker
Member
Well if it's different people it's different people. Still there is a general mood if you frequent these threads and last week was very positive and this week seems mostly negative. Going outside this topic, this kind of stuff happens with games where a few months in it's mostly positive on a game then months later or a year later it seems everyone hates it. Clearly it could be different people commenting but I can usually feel the mood of any given topic after reading a few pages.
Yeah I was a bit extreme in my post trying to sway the mood back the other way.
TimeEffect
Member
One of the contradictory points is that MiB said when he first came, he opened a host and saw he was made up of robot parts. But Im pretty sure when William is around, the hosts are made up of bio-synthetic materials.
Also, I can buy the two losers in the Maeve storyline being hosts too. That's the only redeemable way to make sense of this awful, awful storyline. Ive never really watched a show that was bordering on all-time great, get dragged down by something that seemed completely below average.
Also, I can buy the two losers in the Maeve storyline being hosts too. That's the only redeemable way to make sense of this awful, awful storyline. Ive never really watched a show that was bordering on all-time great, get dragged down by something that seemed completely below average.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
As far as I can tell, there's a pre-William timeline (church isn't buried, early hosts are getting dancing lessons, something happens with them all laying dead and Dolores committing suicide, maybe linked to Arnold and Ford's disagreement and ending with the apparent death of Arnold).
Then there's a William timeline (pre-Teddy being Dolores' love interest, 30 years before present time, church is now buried after whatever happened in pre-William timeline, park is losing money and about to be bought by the company William works for)
There's the present MIB timeline (30 years after William timeline, with MIB hunting for the maze and the church being dug up again by Ford for his new narrative, which probably ties into Dolores, Arnold and the MIB. The park is owned by MIB's company and Teddy is now Dolores' love interest, which is potentially to help keep her from wandering off her loop like she did in William timeline).
Plus there's one year before MIB timeline (when MIB returned to the park after his wife died and he decided to act the bad guy by mercilessly killing Maeve and her daughter, which is what set him on his path to discover the maze and Arnold's deeper game - maybe he seeks to right a wrong that occurred in the William timeline when he was with Dolores).
Then there's a William timeline (pre-Teddy being Dolores' love interest, 30 years before present time, church is now buried after whatever happened in pre-William timeline, park is losing money and about to be bought by the company William works for)
There's the present MIB timeline (30 years after William timeline, with MIB hunting for the maze and the church being dug up again by Ford for his new narrative, which probably ties into Dolores, Arnold and the MIB. The park is owned by MIB's company and Teddy is now Dolores' love interest, which is potentially to help keep her from wandering off her loop like she did in William timeline).
Plus there's one year before MIB timeline (when MIB returned to the park after his wife died and he decided to act the bad guy by mercilessly killing Maeve and her daughter, which is what set him on his path to discover the maze and Arnold's deeper game - maybe he seeks to right a wrong that occurred in the William timeline when he was with Dolores).
Have we seen him open up one?
Not yet. But even when he does in Ep. 9 with MiB's knife, there will be those who won't believe he's MiB.
MiamiWesker
Member
I figured that was the arnold death event. Which is about 3-4 years before William got there. She is flashing back to that incident.
The transitions between scenes at times have been brillliant. There was a scene where Ford was discussing how the robots would sometimes go off their loop and try to find themselves or something to that effect and it transitions right to Dolores. Also we get the discussion Maeve has with the butchers about how the hosts memories work and how it's real to them. Then later we see that at work with Dolores.
mikespit1200
Member
I watched the latest episodes last night. A little underwhelming but I think it's expected given that that every week can't be a huge revelation. Pacing is a factor in this show clearly. Nothing has really been confirmed in regards to MiB=William. I'm personally a little more convinced but I wouldn't bet money on it. We also know that pretty much every POV in the show is an unreliable narrator there's room to work with the information the show is giving us. I don't think the show is going off the rails as some posters would have you believe.
Also, returning to the gunplay vs. hand to hand combat for a moment. It's been covered but obviously the further outside sweetwater you get the more dangerous it is. The analogy I used for a friend was that West World is a recreational Danger Room. The variables are dynamic to increase/decrease challenge for the guests while keeping them alive. Obviously all firearms have built safeties and jam mechanisms and can have their ballistics altered depending on the target. So, while I guest is technically shot, it wouldn't be lethal. Look up simunition. The hosts can also physically assault guests, but we assume they have primary directives that preclude say lethal blunt force head trauma, stabbing, etc. It's kind of like when you take a boxing class or something. You sign a release that you understand you are putting yourself at risk. The establishment will go to great lengths to insure your well-being but they can't guarantee your absolute safety.
Also, returning to the gunplay vs. hand to hand combat for a moment. It's been covered but obviously the further outside sweetwater you get the more dangerous it is. The analogy I used for a friend was that West World is a recreational Danger Room. The variables are dynamic to increase/decrease challenge for the guests while keeping them alive. Obviously all firearms have built safeties and jam mechanisms and can have their ballistics altered depending on the target. So, while I guest is technically shot, it wouldn't be lethal. Look up simunition. The hosts can also physically assault guests, but we assume they have primary directives that preclude say lethal blunt force head trauma, stabbing, etc. It's kind of like when you take a boxing class or something. You sign a release that you understand you are putting yourself at risk. The establishment will go to great lengths to insure your well-being but they can't guarantee your absolute safety.
MiamiWesker
Member
I loved that there was a big boss fight in this episode. MIB needed NPC help to take it down.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
This dude is about to become a god-prophet.
Mighty Chin
Banned
I believe he was chosen because he looked liked the freshest Host she came upon. They others looked gooey from years of storage.