MiB is the "higher-up" with clearance who was making changes to Maeve's programming as mentioned in an early episode, right? After the incident in the cabin he saw her as the center of the maze and is doing everything he can to push her towards consciousness?
MiB is the "higher-up" with clearance who was making changes to Maeve's programming as mentioned in an early episode, right? After the incident in the cabin he saw her as the center of the maze and is doing everything he can to push her towards consciousness?
I think it's implied it is Arnold. This episode she makes reference to some old elegant code or something.
MiB's flashback scene to me didn't imply any trickery. He's just a pathetic sadsack looking for meaning after his wife's death. And he killed Maeve because he was curious, nothing more. I don't think we've seen much to suggest MiB is very technically inclined.
We knew from earlier episodes. We saw her in the Ford flashback. What we didn't know was that she was active in MiB's timeframe in an entirely different role (which leads more credence to the flashback theory).
We knew from earlier episodes. We saw her in the Ford flashback. What we didn't know was that she was active in MiB's timeframe in an entirely different role (which leads more credence to the flashback theory).
That's what I'm getting from her storyline as well. She has been traveling alone in the present, retracing the trip that she had with William. In William's story when she flashes back, she's flashing back to the test days of the park. So you got three timelines going on there now
I think there might be more than 3. She has visions of herself dead along her travels, meaning maybe she's made this trip many times and has failed every single time.
Decided to go back and watch from the beginning now that I've read up on a bunch of the theories. I have wondered like everyone about the two timeline theory, Will = MiB, etc. I wanted to find any evidence that didn't make sense.
So, at end of ep3, Delores is alone in the town at night, following Teddy being ambushed by Wyatt's men (one of the marshalls came back and told her what happened). We know in ep8 that
MiB finds Teddy tied up on a post all bloodied, so this is logically the present timeline after the ambush, unless Teddy being on the post is part of some loop that goes on for years. I doubt that though, since we know older Ford gave Teddy his Wyatt background.
The next scene is her arriving at the ranch alone (again, Teddy was ambushed). She hears the shot, goes to her dad, and suddenly has a memory glitch where the new and old father hosts appear. So this is still present timeline.
Then the criminal dude drags her into the barn, where she has another glitch and sees MiB in his place. Still present time...with me so far?
She kills him, then gets away from the others on her horse. After the next scene with Elsie finding the stray who then kills himself, we see William and Logan around the campfire. This is where Delores stumbles toward them and collapses. Even if we believe that this part wasn't actually occuring after her glitch seeing MiB, then what explains her arriving so dazed? These definitely seem like sequenced events. Thus, she had already encountered MiB, and William isn't the same person.
Decided to go back and watch from the beginning now that I've read up on a bunch of the theories. I have wondered like everyone about the two timeline theory, Will = MiB, etc. I wanted to find any evidence that didn't make sense.
So, at end of ep3, Delores is alone in the town at night, following Teddy being ambushed by Wyatt's men (one of the marshalls came back and told her what happened). We know in ep8 that
MiB finds Teddy tied up on a post all bloodied, so this is logically the present timeline after the ambush, unless Teddy being on the post is part of some loop that goes on for years.
The next scene is her arriving at the ranch alone (again, Teddy was ambushed). She hears the shot, goes to her dad, and suddenly has a memory glitch where the new and old father hosts appear. So this is still present timeline.
Then the criminal dude drags her into the barn, where she has another glitch and sees MiB in his place. Still present time...with me so far?
She kills him, then gets away from the others on her horse. After the next scene with Elsie finding the stray who then kills himself, we see William and Logan around the campfire. This is where Delores stumbles toward them and collapses. Even if we believe that this part wasn't actually occuring after her glitch seeing MiB, then what explains her arriving so dazed? These definitely seem like sequenced events. Thus, she had already encountered MiB, and William isn't the same person.
Well, even if you believe the whole "it has to be after MiB" thing, the story itself has played out to reveal Dolores has gone out of her loop before, probably multiple times (since we see flashbacks of her in places she doesn't normally go, like the town with Lawrence's daughter). So what set her out of her loop could be anything. Just like Maeve was set out of her loop with just a few words. It's after all unlikely the MiB is the origin of why that phrase affects the hosts.
Or it could be nothing. It could all just be what Logan said. It's the park recognizing it has a guest that's not participating, and sending the one thing he had interest in toward him to get him involved. We see them do similar guiding storylines like when Hector arrives in town and his guests get arrested but freed by girls bringing them the keys later.
The Flashback theory relies on suggesting this was simply manipulative editing, which the show has clearly indulged in already.
Dolores is shown to be a unreliable narrator. It's not even clear if she's having flashbacks of previous loops, just imagining things, or being fed visions by Arnold. Even she herself claims she doesn't know what's real anymore.
muheh~ TWD is just straight up silly is what i meant.... no one takes TWD seriously, right??? RIGHT???
Westworld is a show that puts itself at a place where it wants to be regarded as legitimate. TWD is parking its butts at probably.... CAMPY, at best.
That's what i mean...
also i am not a fan of TWD. never really posted at the threads for the show, either, but i am also not a fan of people elevating one show by rubbishing another because i think it's kind of snobbish behaviour. that's all.
Edit: Sorry missed a reply cuz the quote tag was borked:
How is the show trying to be more clever than it really is? Seems like its more of a case of people making up a lot of fan theories, determining which one SHOULD be canon, and then complaining when they didn't "figure out" the show.
SRSN, I just get the feeling a lot of westworld's contrivances (specially with maeve's arc) shows that the writers don't think very much of an average's viewer abilities to question the failure in westworld's internal logic. maybe i phrase it badly :3 but i feel like a lot of westworld's 'plot holes' shows that it's not as clever as it needed/wanted to be.
but hey, it's an opinion. and as i have said previously, thandie newton is a great actor, she's selling the heck out of her parts with great skills, but the writing in her parts really let her down (for me, for me). I can give credits where they are due though, and she's not the weak parts of the series. the writing of her parts, however, leave A LOT to be desired.
It was apparent from the scenes with the bird. The whole point of those scenes was a) to show Felix's level of empathy and even love for artificial constructs (note his child-like glee and wonder once the bird starts to fly around the room), and b) his particular skill at programming for someone at his position, which Maeve herself later remarked on. It's clear why he has such difficulty with the idea of basically killing what he progressively sees as more and more human, if he felt that way about a simple robotic bird. One of the show's major themes is that being alive is tied to the act of remembering, so wiping a host's memories in Felix's eyes (which is what formatting her would do) is akin to killing them.
I also don't get the hatred for those scenes. Maeve was literally designed to be a master manipulator since her brothel character is to persuade and effectively control guests, usually men, and that was before all of her upgrades. She directs her threats and manipulations in a very calculated way, reserving the violence and overt threats for Sylvester, who would only ever respond to such things, and otherwise playing on Felix's empathy. She was able to quickly read them both and adapt what she says and does to get them to do exactly what she wants. It's important to remember that Maeve was superhumanly intelligent and capable even before they boosted her intellect further. Felix noted that she was like a human in every way except that her brain works much more quickly, and that she can be controlled. When she can't be controlled so easily, what's left is that she's vastly more capable than any human, thinking several steps ahead without effort. Is it such a surprise that two relatively regular Joes are like putty in her hands?
Not to say that there haven't been issues with the Maeve plot (main issue for me: red-headed guy's insanely awful acting). But despite that it's one of my favorite plots in the show.
I can buy Felix working with her out of curiosity and empathy, not so much Sylvester. It's not like they are with her trapped in a room or something, this is taking place over weeks or at least several days, there's very little incentive for him to have not attempted some sort of plan to get out this. Like his plan this episode, given his character, probably would have happened after the first time. The threat of violence should only really work the one time with a character like him.
Honestly I think this probably should have just been Felix's story and not have Sylvester be involved. Would make a lot more sense.
I don't think he's "on the board" now because they seem to be moving in a different direction from prior leadership. I think he is/was the CEO and they're looking for a change now. If he is indeed William, than the woman he married is the daughter of the founder/owner of Delos. Hale also mentioned that one of her predecessors was responsible for allowing Ford to lock up 35 years of valuable data in the park. I think that's William/MiB. And I don't think it was an oversight.
Not to say that there haven't been issues with the Maeve plot (main issue for me: red-headed guy's insanely awful acting). But despite that it's one of my favorite plots in the show.
I don't even think that he's doing an awful job acting, but the part is written so incredibly unbelievably. Like, the character should've made the call on that shit about 4 episodes ago. I can actually understand the Asian tech getting suckered into it, because that's a believable, realistic character trait that could maintain consistency as it's drawn out, and Maeve is absolutely designed for that sort of thing. But you just can't drag out "No fucking way, man! We need to end this!" through five or six different points of escalation and expect anything but an eye roll.
I can buy Felix working with her out of curiosity and empathy, not so much Sylvester. It's not like they are with her trapped in a room or something, this is taking place over weeks or at least several days, there's very little incentive for him to have not attempted some sort of plan to get out this. Like his plan this episode, given his character, probably would have happened after the first time.
Honestly I think they probably should have just been Felix's story and not have Sylvester be involved. Would make a lot more sense.
So, thanks to my own stupidity, I lost my shit when the blonde girl at the fire said "welcome home Theodore" or whatever, thinking William's name was Teddy and confirming the timeline theory.
That last about two seconds before the camera panned down and I was like "Ohhh right THAT'S Teddy".
kinda disappointed in this episode. so much info dump. and people just coming out with it.
you've been waiting this whole time for all these answers and now we are just going to explain a bunch of stuff. just not handled well. expecting good things from the finale tho
Well, even if you believe the whole "it has to be after MiB" thing, the story itself has played out to reveal Dolores has gone out of her loop before, probably multiple times (since we see flashbacks of her in places she doesn't normally go, like the town with Lawrence's daughter). So what set her out of her loop could be anything. Just like Maeve was set out of her loop with just a few words. It's after all unlikely the MiB is the origin of why that phrase affects the hosts.
Or it could be nothing. It could all just be what Logan said. It's the park recognizing it has a guest that's not participating, and sending the one thing he had interest in toward him to get him involved. We see them do similar guiding storylines like when Hector arrives in town and his guests get arrested but freed by girls bringing them the keys later.
The Flashback theory relies on suggesting this was simply manipulative editing, which the show has clearly indulged in already.
Just getting through ep4 now. A "coordinator" comes up to Stubbs and says Delores is deviating from her normal loop. He's in present day so again we see indication that her thing with Will is happening presently. Not discounting your response, but the idea that this short scene is simply another manipulation seems unlikely. I think it's directly referring to Will and Delores' experience...after all, Ford did reference Occam's razor.
Just getting through ep4 now. A "coordinator" comes up to Stubbs and says Delores is deviating from her normal loop. He's in present day so again we see indication that her thing with Will is happening presently. Not discounting your response, but the idea that this short scene is simply another manipulation seems unlikely. I think it's directly referring to Will and Delores' experience...after all, Ford did reference Occam's razor.
They said nothing about William. The same scene specifically has him ask if she's with a guest, and they said they can't tell. It's the show hinting to the audience that Dolores in the present time is retracing the journey alone, but confusing it with her memories of William.
So, thanks to my own stupidity, I lost my shit when the blonde girl at the fire said "welcome home Theodore" or whatever, thinking William's name was Teddy and confirming the timeline theory.
That last about two seconds before the camera panned down and I was like "Ohhh right THAT'S Teddy".
will there ever be an explanation for why the maze image was inside that guys scalp and how mib knew about it, or was it just something cool and gruesome to show
will there ever be an explanation for why the maze image was inside that guys scalp and how mib knew about it, or was it just something cool and gruesome to show
kinda disappointed in this episode. so much info dump. and people just coming out with it.
you've been waiting this whole time for all these answers and now we are just going to explain a bunch of stuff. just not handled well. expecting good things from the finale tho
Yea there's too much coding magic going on. The over-reliance on everyone being a superhuman coding genius and coding acting like Hideo Kojima's NANOMACHINEZ explanation is really off-putting for me.
This show is blowing my mind as it races to the finale. I was sweating as things kept unveiling. Haven't felt the intensity of a tv show like this one in a long time. Next two episodes are going to be a hell of a ride.
I try to come up with a quick timeline of the church village
- so, first stage, the village is being populated and prepared for a narrative and Dolores shoots it up at some point
- sometimes later, the village is empty?
- William timeline, the village is buried underground
- modern timeline, iirc Ford has dug it out for his new narrative, which presumeably is going to be the place for the conclusion of MiB's quest
This Asian tech lab is a horrible person. First he put hundreds of lives in jeopardy by refusing to shut Mavea down when he had the chance.
Then he just stands there and does nothing while his friend is bleeding to death and goes to save him only after mavea tells him to so so.
- Is William MiB?
- What are the different time periods Dolores sees and how do they line up?
- Who is MiB today?
- What is in the 35 years of data Delos wants to extract?
- Does Maeve's escape plan work?
- Who is Arnold?
- What is the nature of Ford's new narrative?
- What does the maze mean?
- What happened to Elsie?
All these questions will be answered by the end of the season finale.
- Is William MiB?
- What are the different time periods Dolores sees and how do they line up?
- Who is MiB today?
- What is in the 35 years of data Delos wants to extract?
- Does Maeve's escape plan work?
- Who is Arnold?
- What is the nature of Ford's new narrative?
- What does the maze mean?
- What happened to Elsie?
All these questions will be answered by the end of the season finale.
I feel this is something they might answer or they might tease instead, because the outside world is clearly something they're setting up for future seasons in their mystery box, so it's not really relevant to the mysteries in this season. They might have teaser scene showing outside without context, to get people talking between seasons.
I feel this is something they might answer or they might tease instead, because the outside world is clearly something they're setting up for future seasons in their mystery box, so it's not really relevant to the mysteries in this season. They might have teaser scene showing outside without context, to get people talking between seasons.
They could literally end the season with Maeve or Dolores walking outside and seeing the outside world. If it is Maeve, she explodes. If it is Dolores, it will be a devasted landscape somewhere.
There are things in this episode that would not make sense if they were at the same time.
Ford is currently excavating the buried town, which we saw William and Dolores in in this episode.
William's greeter is now involved in Wyatt's campaign. This would either mean William has been in there for fucking ever, or that is some incredibly fast turnaround. Granted, that actually IS possible, but it stretches incredulity that William keeps being involved with hosts that have their roles changing. Not to mention, if they aren't going for that, why even bother having it be her? She's not a known actress or a developed character. She is introduced in that moment specifically to get you to go "Wait, that's the girl that was acting as the escort for William." There's no other reason for that actress to play that role.
