Bobo Dakes
Member
I'm still scratching my head at this.
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What developer/publisher has fallen the furthest from grace?
- Thread starter daTRUballin
- Start date
I'm still scratching my head at this.
flipswitch
Member
Polyphony Digital.
Edit: I'see that it has been mentioned already.
Edit: I'see that it has been mentioned already.
I cannot believe this thread has gone nine pages when objectively there is only one answer.
Objectively.
Think about what Konami gave you over the last four decades.
Now consider that the company bases its entire business on real estate holdings, mobile software and gambling with traditional video games a distant fourth tier.
Objective truth.
Objectively.
Think about what Konami gave you over the last four decades.
Now consider that the company bases its entire business on real estate holdings, mobile software and gambling with traditional video games a distant fourth tier.
Objective truth.
daTRUballin
Member
There's a lot of repeating answers in this thread. It's not a big deal if you mention a company that someone else has already mentioned.
NascentGecko
Member
[removed]
Last edited:
No where does OP say that would disqualify a dev. Bioware used to be a name to trust, now it's a developer I ignore.
To little to late I guess.. they were also working on Grabbed by Ghoulies. It's amazing MS let that even get released.
daTRUballin
Member
I remember reading it was going to be a drastically different game on the GameCube. It was supposed to be a 3D platformer instead of a beat em up. What's to say it wouldn't have been better on the GC? We don't know.
Lister
Banned
What the he'll does that haved to do with the topic? And over 5 million is the estimated sales for the franchise BEFORE re-releases and remastered. I don't think that's "poorly" for a pc exclusive in the early 2000s.
We will never know cause Nintendo didn't buy them..
SliChillax
Member
Polyphony Digital
I've seen this posted a few times is the new GT bad or something?
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
For me, it's -
1. Konami
2. Capcom
3. Square Enix
4. Rare
All anyone has to do is look at their games the last two to three generations and compare them to the SNES/PS/N64 generations and well, enough said.
1. Konami
2. Capcom
3. Square Enix
4. Rare
All anyone has to do is look at their games the last two to three generations and compare them to the SNES/PS/N64 generations and well, enough said.
SliChillax
Member
They release games once in a lifetime with not much progress in between them. They haven't released a game for the PS4 yet. GT4 is the last great game they made, the content and graphics were mind blowing at the time. Then came GT5 on PS3 6 years later using PS2 models for cars and and overall lack of polish. GT6 came out 3 years after that and was more of the same. Let's see if GTS will hold up to the hype but it's not a proper GT7. Who knows when GT7 will come out? How Sony has tolerated them for so long is beyond me, they need a kick in the butt to wake up
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
Publisher: MS
Developer: Rare
Developer: Rare
Konami - This studio used to dominate during the 8-bit and 16-bit era. Every console no matter if it was the NES, Master System, Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis, PC Engine, or an Arcade cabinet, Konami was supreme. However, when 3D began to get all the rage the company gradually lost footing.Truth be told, Konami was a traditional gaming company through and through and the move to interactive and cinematic type games didn't really work for them. Yes, Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill worked well for that era, but besides those titles there really wasn't anything else that hit it big. As time went on, Konami gradually became known as the company that makes above average handheld titles, Metal Gear Solid, and PES. Then they went from basically being the Metal Gear and PES company. Now their pretty much just a pachinko company.
Rare - I don't care what Microsoft diehards say about the company. Rare never even got close in reaching their former glory after they left Nintendo.Sure, Nuts and Bolts and Viva Pinate are good games. However, they weren't THAT good. Few people would say they were amongst "the game of the generation" and their sales weren't too hot either. Since making Donkey Kong Country, the studio was known for highly influential and beloved games and their titles being blockbusters. Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Diddy Kong Racing, Goldeneye, Banjo & Kazooie, Perfect Dark, are just some examples of blockbuster well received titles that are still talked about until this day. Hell, even the games that "bombed" in the charts are remembered more fondly and talked about than their newer titles, such as Conker's Bad Fur Day and to a lesser extent Jet Force Gemini.
Since being with Microsoft the studio has created nothing noteworthy. They began with Grabbed by the Ghoulies which was a laughing stock.Then moved on to a psuedo-remaster of Conker's Bad Fur Day, which actually was inferior to the Nintendo 64 version to most. They then moved on to the very mediocre Perfect Dark Zero and the merely "good" Kameo. After that they created Nuts & Bolts and Viva Pinate, which while are good games in their own right, they aren't "Rare quality". Past that were terrible Kinect game nobody remembers.
Really, the only game Rare has "made" since moving on to Microsoft that has anywhere near the respect of their Nintendo era titles is Killer Instinct. It is widely respected in the fighting game community as it is a very tight and unique fighter. But even then this likely doesn't even count due to the fact that not only did Rare not even make it, Double Helix did almost all the work, but when they were even somewhat involved with it in the beginning, the game crap. Killer Instinct was very mediocre until the much more seasoned Iron Galaxy studio took full reign on the series.
I always laugh out loud when Nintendo fans claim that the company trading away Rare was a bad idea. It was easily best studio sale in all of gaming history. Most of Rare's talented staff left at the dawn of the new millennium and thus they lost their magic. This is even seen with the Gamecube's Star Fox Adventures. When Microsoft bid to buy Rare from Nintendo, it was as if the company won the lottery.
It's pretty unfortunate, as judging from Free Radical's demise and their less than stellar track record as they only arguably made two good games, Yooka Laylee being received poorly, and modern Rare being...well modern Rare, it seems that the studio we all grew up with is truly dead. These creators worked fabulous together but apart...not so much. Definitely one of the definitions of "there's no 'I' in team".
Sega - Really needs no introduction.To be fair though, I feel that Sega is a lot like Konami. They are studio that were lost in time during the late 90s to mid 2000s. They still made incredible games, but they weren't what the public wanted. The Sega Saturn has a great library, but almost all of the best games were 2D at a time when 3D was the new de facto standard for console titles, especially big budget ones, that has held to this day. They also focused on arcade style games, in which when the arcades were dying in most parts of the world. Even their non straight arcade games were very arcade-like, such as Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5, Rez, and even the 2K series. This was a time when cinematic and realistic games dominated the market. People were no longer lining up to play Sonic and Street Fighter, they were lining up to play Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. Crazy Taxi wasn't going to cut it in a Grand Turismo World. Sure there were titles like Skies of Arcadia, Headhunter, and most notably Shenmue, but it wasn't enough.
Contrary to popular belief, Sega didn't die when they were brought out by Sammy. Sammy was actually pretty lenient toward the company initially, so that their plan titles were released. Hence why the years after the merger we received Jet Set Radio Future, Gunvalkyrie, Toe Jam & Earl III, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Shinobi, Nightshade, House of the Dead III, and Outrun 2. However, with the sole exception of Shinobi, all of these titles either underperformed or flatout bombed. As a result Sammy completely restructured the studio and more or less killed Sega. As time goes on there are few titles that pop up that capture the studio's "magic" such Valkyrie Chronicles and the Yakuza series, but they are few and far inbetween. Outrun 2 was essentially Sega's last breath.
Rare - I don't care what Microsoft diehards say about the company. Rare never even got close in reaching their former glory after they left Nintendo.Sure, Nuts and Bolts and Viva Pinate are good games. However, they weren't THAT good. Few people would say they were amongst "the game of the generation" and their sales weren't too hot either. Since making Donkey Kong Country, the studio was known for highly influential and beloved games and their titles being blockbusters. Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Diddy Kong Racing, Goldeneye, Banjo & Kazooie, Perfect Dark, are just some examples of blockbuster well received titles that are still talked about until this day. Hell, even the games that "bombed" in the charts are remembered more fondly and talked about than their newer titles, such as Conker's Bad Fur Day and to a lesser extent Jet Force Gemini.
Since being with Microsoft the studio has created nothing noteworthy. They began with Grabbed by the Ghoulies which was a laughing stock.Then moved on to a psuedo-remaster of Conker's Bad Fur Day, which actually was inferior to the Nintendo 64 version to most. They then moved on to the very mediocre Perfect Dark Zero and the merely "good" Kameo. After that they created Nuts & Bolts and Viva Pinate, which while are good games in their own right, they aren't "Rare quality". Past that were terrible Kinect game nobody remembers.
Really, the only game Rare has "made" since moving on to Microsoft that has anywhere near the respect of their Nintendo era titles is Killer Instinct. It is widely respected in the fighting game community as it is a very tight and unique fighter. But even then this likely doesn't even count due to the fact that not only did Rare not even make it, Double Helix did almost all the work, but when they were even somewhat involved with it in the beginning, the game crap. Killer Instinct was very mediocre until the much more seasoned Iron Galaxy studio took full reign on the series.
I always laugh out loud when Nintendo fans claim that the company trading away Rare was a bad idea. It was easily best studio sale in all of gaming history. Most of Rare's talented staff left at the dawn of the new millennium and thus they lost their magic. This is even seen with the Gamecube's Star Fox Adventures. When Microsoft bid to buy Rare from Nintendo, it was as if the company won the lottery.
It's pretty unfortunate, as judging from Free Radical's demise and their less than stellar track record as they only arguably made two good games, Yooka Laylee being received poorly, and modern Rare being...well modern Rare, it seems that the studio we all grew up with is truly dead. These creators worked fabulous together but apart...not so much. Definitely one of the definitions of "there's no 'I' in team".
Sega - Really needs no introduction.To be fair though, I feel that Sega is a lot like Konami. They are studio that were lost in time during the late 90s to mid 2000s. They still made incredible games, but they weren't what the public wanted. The Sega Saturn has a great library, but almost all of the best games were 2D at a time when 3D was the new de facto standard for console titles, especially big budget ones, that has held to this day. They also focused on arcade style games, in which when the arcades were dying in most parts of the world. Even their non straight arcade games were very arcade-like, such as Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5, Rez, and even the 2K series. This was a time when cinematic and realistic games dominated the market. People were no longer lining up to play Sonic and Street Fighter, they were lining up to play Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. Crazy Taxi wasn't going to cut it in a Grand Turismo World. Sure there were titles like Skies of Arcadia, Headhunter, and most notably Shenmue, but it wasn't enough.
Contrary to popular belief, Sega didn't die when they were brought out by Sammy. Sammy was actually pretty lenient toward the company initially, so that their plan titles were released. Hence why the years after the merger we received Jet Set Radio Future, Gunvalkyrie, Toe Jam & Earl III, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Shinobi, Nightshade, House of the Dead III, and Outrun 2. However, with the sole exception of Shinobi, all of these titles either underperformed or flatout bombed. As a result Sammy completely restructured the studio and more or less killed Sega. As time goes on there are few titles that pop up that capture the studio's "magic" such Valkyrie Chronicles and the Yakuza series, but they are few and far inbetween. Outrun 2 was essentially Sega's last breath.
UberTag
Member
Not that I disagree but Ubisoft is one of those companies that is wisely shifting with the market to focus on more profitable gaming experiences with an emphasis on cultivating social experiences and marketing over product quality. Can't really fault them there. I see Square Enix moving in a similar direction.
daTRUballin
Member
Do explain then. When Nintendo sold them, Rare was 1) unable to finish their games and 2) couldn't make top quality games anymore anyway.
daTRUballin
Member
1. The reason why they couldn't finish their games was because of the Microsoft buyout. They literally had no time to work on the GameCube, so they only released one GC game before leaving for MS.
2. What's your basis on this? Because if it's Star Fox Adventures, then that's stupid. SFA was literally one game made out of several different teams at Rare. The game also suffered from Nintendo's meddling. Much more so than their previous games. It was also rushed so that it could release before the buyout happened, and the game's quality obviously suffered from all of this.
Pointing to one game and saying that it proved Rare couldn't make good games anymore doesn't make any sense. All developers occasionally release games with questionable quality. Guess what game came before SFA? Conker's Bad Fur Day, a highly regarded classic. Guess what games came out before CBFD? Banjo Tooie and Mickey's Speedway USA. The former is considered to be a great sequel, while the latter is seen as mediocre. Guess what came before those two? Perfect Dark. Not much explaining needed for this one. And what came out before that? DK64, a game that a lot of people aren't exactly too fond of (although I personally thought it was a decent game), etc. etc.
How do we know if Rare wouldn't have released any good games for Nintendo after SFA?
It's LITERALLY in that posters post you keep praising.
And even during the N64 era, Rare began to fall. While Donkey Kong 64 was received well critically, it was received very mixed by the gaming community. Jet Force Gemini was good, but just that "good" hence it's above average critical scores and people bringing it up only from time to time.. Mickey's Speedway USA was so-so and quickly forgotten. Then Star Fox Adventures came and was seen as disappointing. The only universally agreed quality titles after the time Goldeneye came out were Perfect Dark, Banjo Tooie, and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Which isn't bad, but the company was already no longer at the former glory, and this was before the second (third?) big exodus.
Sure, but they haven't done anything like those games since.
polyh3dron
Banned
Publisher: Konami
Developer: BioWare
Developer: BioWare
Octavianus
Banned
daTRUballin
Member
So here's the thing: Yes, Rare was already having some employee turnover back during the Nintendo days, but not to the extent that everybody seems to believe. The only team at Rare that lost any substantial number of people was their FPS team. The rest of the teams remained mostly intact, and it wasn't until the late 2000s/early 2010s when most of their key people started leaving due to being forced to work on Kinect games. Hell, even the Stampers were still there up until 2007. A good chunk of the Playtonic devs were still working there as late as 2014. Most employee departures happened after the buyout, not before. So unless you think that Rare's FPS team was the only important team at Rare, then it doesn't make sense to say they were going downhill before the sale.
Also, no. Conker and PD weren't the only post-Goldeneye games that were seen as good quality. Did you forget about Diddy Kong Racing, Banjo Kazooie, and Tooie? Also, I don't think Jet Force Gemini was really seen as "mixed". It didn't sell as well as some other Rare games, but the people that actually bought it and played it seemed to generally like it. I'll give you DK64 though. Although that game was still critically acclaimed and sold in the millions.
EDIT: Just saw your edit. You already pointed out and acknowledged some of the things I pointed out in my post, so that's good.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Sadly I have to agree with the latter. It seems in the same time period of the 360 that the X1 is at now we were getting more 1st party titles. I do enjoy a lot of what MS has put out this gen, but there is less and there are holes. No 1st party title to fill Fable's place stings. Crackdown 3 and maybe SoD2 might help this.
RVIDXR
Member
Rare: For the many reasons I agree with in this thread.
Polyphony Digital: I prefer quality over quantity, but it shouldn't have taken this long to make a new GT.
Ubisoft: Nowadays it's almost like I'm playing the same game with different skins sometimes. R6: Seige stands on its own.
Microsoft: Went from taking risks for the Xbox brand to deliver strong, unique first party content to coasting on Halo, Gears, and Forza. Delays and cancellations pepper the landscape. I remain optimistic, though.
Konami:
Polyphony Digital: I prefer quality over quantity, but it shouldn't have taken this long to make a new GT.
Ubisoft: Nowadays it's almost like I'm playing the same game with different skins sometimes. R6: Seige stands on its own.
Microsoft: Went from taking risks for the Xbox brand to deliver strong, unique first party content to coasting on Halo, Gears, and Forza. Delays and cancellations pepper the landscape. I remain optimistic, though.
Konami:
How could I forget Falcom.
Sen, Tokyo Xanadu and Ys8 all have been extremely disappointing.
I just have to look at the main female characters to see how bad the situation is.
After the really nice Estelle and Ellie, we get 3 very poor tsundere basic girls.
It's really sad considering I really liked the kiseki/trails series and liked how Ys felt different too.
Sen, Tokyo Xanadu and Ys8 all have been extremely disappointing.
I just have to look at the main female characters to see how bad the situation is.
After the really nice Estelle and Ellie, we get 3 very poor tsundere basic girls.
It's really sad considering I really liked the kiseki/trails series and liked how Ys felt different too.
Nostremitus
Member
Silicon Knights still technically exist, right?
They went from the team that made Eternal Darkness and MGS:TS to.... ...a salty guy filing for bankruptcy indebted to Epic.
They went from the team that made Eternal Darkness and MGS:TS to.... ...a salty guy filing for bankruptcy indebted to Epic.
Muffdraul
Member
I'm 48 and I had a front row seat to the whole thing. The thing about Atari in this context is, they were just one company going down among many. The Great Crash took down most if not all of the US companies back then. Atari was the king, but it wasn't so much the end of Atari as it was the end of an era. It's very different from more recent falls like Square and Konami, who seemed to go as far out of their way as they could to shit their own bed and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Some of the hot takes in this thread are real head scratchers.
It's a shame that Rare couldn't produce the titles they used to back in the day; but I'm not going to write off their new games - there's still talent at the company. Very much looking forward to Sea of Thieves.
The glory days of Joe Danger and Joe Danger 2?
It's a shame that Rare couldn't produce the titles they used to back in the day; but I'm not going to write off their new games - there's still talent at the company. Very much looking forward to Sea of Thieves.
The glory days of Joe Danger and Joe Danger 2?
Bioshocker
Member
Sega.
The downfall of this once great company is painful to watch, especially for me as a former Sega fanboy. I remember the Mega Drive/Genesis age, but most of all I remember what Sega did during the short but intense Dreamcast years. What incredible lineup they put out in just a few years. Shenmue, Sonic Adventure 1-2, Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Space Channel 5, Seaman, Rez, Sega Rally 2 (yeah, I liked it), Skies of Arcadia...
Now these days are definately gone. Sega took great risks back then and it didn't pay off. I understand why they can't do it anymore. It still makes me sad, though, to see what's become of Sega.
The downfall of this once great company is painful to watch, especially for me as a former Sega fanboy. I remember the Mega Drive/Genesis age, but most of all I remember what Sega did during the short but intense Dreamcast years. What incredible lineup they put out in just a few years. Shenmue, Sonic Adventure 1-2, Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Space Channel 5, Seaman, Rez, Sega Rally 2 (yeah, I liked it), Skies of Arcadia...
Now these days are definately gone. Sega took great risks back then and it didn't pay off. I understand why they can't do it anymore. It still makes me sad, though, to see what's become of Sega.
Jetboxx
Member
Itagaki and Valhalla Game Studios >>>>> Team Ninja Dog.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
1. Atari
2. Sega
3. Konami
2. Sega
3. Konami
Interfectum
Member
Valve and Bioware for me.
Valve no longer makes games that made me a fan to begin with. Bioware makes sloppy, hollow versions of games they used to make.
Valve no longer makes games that made me a fan to begin with. Bioware makes sloppy, hollow versions of games they used to make.
QuantumZebra
Member
That would be Squaresoft
BUT I do agree - Rare definitely wins this award. Bioware may take that if the next Dragon Age faceplants.
High profile doesn't mean they had a good reputation. It just means that the game had developed a high profile at a certain point. The only reputaion you could say they had was whatever their previous games had made for them at that point, and their reputation after NMS came out. But during? You could say people were discussing their reputation at best.
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