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What makes a perfect RPG?
- Thread starter Walter Matthau
- Start date
viewtifulsub
Member
Altering the Leveling System to make grinding redundant. Oh how much i loved Chrono Cross for the fact that i never had to grind throughout the game at all.
Other than, i think dionysus covered most of the topics for me.
Other than, i think dionysus covered most of the topics for me.
Here's a formula.
-An open world the size of Morrowind/Oblvion, with non-linear progression
-Characters as varied as Dragon Quest 8
-Combat as deep as Devil May Cry 3 PLUS thousands of items, weapons, armor, spells, summons
-A deep conversation system like Bioware's games, also decision system that affects how everyone reacts to you throughout the game.
-Own your own house, customize it however you want
-Dozens of minigames. Not just card games either. Fishing, horseback riding, arena combat
-Recruit party members from thousands of people and creatures you meet
-100 hour main quest spanning varied locations
-A system of law, government, and military alliance that governs every facet of the civilized world
-Can go inside any house, steal things, kill people.
-Non-random dungeons
-Non-random battles
-Beautiful music, art.
-Plant things and watch them grow, cook things and feed the world, create a self-sustaining civilization with your skills of entrepreneurship
-Cinematic story about a boy and his blob
-Have pet dragons, bears, sharks even. Help you fight or just hang around
-Swords, guns, arrows, light sabers, plasma rifles, why can't we have it all?
-Tanks, airships, chariots, horses, cars, again, why can't we have it all?
-Stat whoring. Every character and enemy in the game can gain thousands of levels.
-60 FPS, 1080p with motion blur, spanning 2 Blu-Ray discs or 1 DVD.
This will be a collaborative effort between Bioware, Level 5, Bethesda, Monolith-Soft, Armor Project, Mistwalker, Tri-Ace, Nippon-Ichi, Natsume and Vanillaware
-An open world the size of Morrowind/Oblvion, with non-linear progression
-Characters as varied as Dragon Quest 8
-Combat as deep as Devil May Cry 3 PLUS thousands of items, weapons, armor, spells, summons
-A deep conversation system like Bioware's games, also decision system that affects how everyone reacts to you throughout the game.
-Own your own house, customize it however you want
-Dozens of minigames. Not just card games either. Fishing, horseback riding, arena combat
-Recruit party members from thousands of people and creatures you meet
-100 hour main quest spanning varied locations
-A system of law, government, and military alliance that governs every facet of the civilized world
-Can go inside any house, steal things, kill people.
-Non-random dungeons
-Non-random battles
-Beautiful music, art.
-Plant things and watch them grow, cook things and feed the world, create a self-sustaining civilization with your skills of entrepreneurship
-Cinematic story about a boy and his blob
-Have pet dragons, bears, sharks even. Help you fight or just hang around
-Swords, guns, arrows, light sabers, plasma rifles, why can't we have it all?
-Tanks, airships, chariots, horses, cars, again, why can't we have it all?
-Stat whoring. Every character and enemy in the game can gain thousands of levels.
-60 FPS, 1080p with motion blur, spanning 2 Blu-Ray discs or 1 DVD.
This will be a collaborative effort between Bioware, Level 5, Bethesda, Monolith-Soft, Armor Project, Mistwalker, Tri-Ace, Nippon-Ichi, Natsume and Vanillaware
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Avalon said:Having fun with Etrian Odyssey?
RPG of the year that doesn't have a shitty story rammed down your throat via vomit-inducing cutscenes.
AMAZING AIN'T IT
1. Not being on a console.
2. not being Japanese.
Japanese people make the same RPG over and over again, I do NOT like random encounters with cliched manga characters in a predictable manga story...
Also:
3. be able to create your character (role playing game=playing a role, not just leveling up and fighting goblins)
One of the best RPGs I played, and the best games I played, is Baldur's Gate 2: Shadow of Amn. It was long, had the most awesome characters ever (Minsc and Boo stands ready.), the game had the story of a shitty fantasy book, but that was the whole point, the whole game was based on the feeling of reading some predictable story in the Forgotten Realms world, and you felt like "playing in the book", you could see your character rising from a poor level 1 whatever, to a level 40 GOD. Also, The real fun was, for me, your party. Most games today wither have small partied or boring parties, BG2 had six characters, all were interesting and interacted with each other. They didn't just talk once in a while like in KoTOR, they always talked between themselves and you, they romanced and they advanced their relationships. It felt so good to see this party dynamic and feeling like a group of THE MOST AWESOME GUYS EVER dungeon crawling together. You don't even care about the story being pretty predictable, because it was all tied together to make you feel like some kind of a Forgotten realms hero, like Drizzt or something.
PlaneScape: Torment was also incredibly awesome, story was awesome and characters were awesome.
As long as a RPG allows me to think of my actions as my character and not watch the story progresses, but feel (even if it's an illusion) that I'm progressing the story.
Also, I want my old Bioware back! and the infinity engine!
sounds just annoying to me. What I want is:
1.an over epic game based on Exalted
2. an infinity like engine in 3D. which supports a lot of enemies on screen and huge First Age mecha enemies.
3. about 6-8 part memebers with some 10 to choose from. I want hundreds of Extras fighting me while I use crazy combos and knock them to hell, while a Dragon Blood is on the other side throwing fireballs at me and walking between the hordes of useless extras.
2. not being Japanese.
Japanese people make the same RPG over and over again, I do NOT like random encounters with cliched manga characters in a predictable manga story...
Also:
3. be able to create your character (role playing game=playing a role, not just leveling up and fighting goblins)
One of the best RPGs I played, and the best games I played, is Baldur's Gate 2: Shadow of Amn. It was long, had the most awesome characters ever (Minsc and Boo stands ready.), the game had the story of a shitty fantasy book, but that was the whole point, the whole game was based on the feeling of reading some predictable story in the Forgotten Realms world, and you felt like "playing in the book", you could see your character rising from a poor level 1 whatever, to a level 40 GOD. Also, The real fun was, for me, your party. Most games today wither have small partied or boring parties, BG2 had six characters, all were interesting and interacted with each other. They didn't just talk once in a while like in KoTOR, they always talked between themselves and you, they romanced and they advanced their relationships. It felt so good to see this party dynamic and feeling like a group of THE MOST AWESOME GUYS EVER dungeon crawling together. You don't even care about the story being pretty predictable, because it was all tied together to make you feel like some kind of a Forgotten realms hero, like Drizzt or something.
PlaneScape: Torment was also incredibly awesome, story was awesome and characters were awesome.
As long as a RPG allows me to think of my actions as my character and not watch the story progresses, but feel (even if it's an illusion) that I'm progressing the story.
Also, I want my old Bioware back! and the infinity engine!
Speevy said:
sounds just annoying to me. What I want is:
1.an over epic game based on Exalted
2. an infinity like engine in 3D. which supports a lot of enemies on screen and huge First Age mecha enemies.
3. about 6-8 part memebers with some 10 to choose from. I want hundreds of Extras fighting me while I use crazy combos and knock them to hell, while a Dragon Blood is on the other side throwing fireballs at me and walking between the hordes of useless extras.
polyh3dron
Banned
FauX said:
Yep, get the people together who made Chrono Trigger, and you'd have another perfect RPG. Just don't let Artoon develop it
BobTheFork
Member
Open 1 can of level 5
Pour and serve.
Edit: wow why is story so low on people's lists?
Pour and serve.
Edit: wow why is story so low on people's lists?
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
Gameplay is the most important aspect in any game, but story/ music/ graphics can have a large influence on the quality of the role-playing. So:
Gameplay: 40
Story: 30
Graphics & Sound: 30
-----
More in depth:
Story:
- Concepts & Story: 5
- Characters: 10
- Storytelling: 15
Why? Because although a story might have interesting ideas, themes and concepts, it can't manage to be interesting if the characters are bad or if the storytelling is poor. Story telling is by far the most important aspect, because with a good narrative and presentation, you can make even the most cliche stories and dullest characters interesting. A story might have awesome twists and drama, and you might love the characters, but the storytelling dictates how predictable it turns out to be, how everything is presented, how well it manages the player to immerse in the world and feel attached to the characters, etc. That's why some cliche, simple stories manage to be far more entertaining than some stories with epic, awesome concepts and cool/ badass characters: Because they are actually well-written.
Gameplay:
- Battle Mechanics: 20
- Pace/ balance/ difficulty issues: 15
- Extras for the sake of replayability: 5
Bad pace, poorly-balanced systems and bad difficulty levels can make a big difference, but if the battle system is so awesome by itself, you might still find it enjoyable. Replayability is nice, but no one's will want to replay it if it sucks, and vice-versa as well, many people will be willing to replay the games they love regardless of the lack of any extras.
Atmosphere:
- Visual: 10
- Music: 15
- Sound Effects: 5
Music is half the experience. It can help to give an atmosphere to the world and to the story by its own. Visuals (graphics AND artstyle) also have an important role in immersing the player into the world, and good sounds effects will only enhance everything.
Gameplay: 40
Story: 30
Graphics & Sound: 30
-----
More in depth:
Story:
- Concepts & Story: 5
- Characters: 10
- Storytelling: 15
Why? Because although a story might have interesting ideas, themes and concepts, it can't manage to be interesting if the characters are bad or if the storytelling is poor. Story telling is by far the most important aspect, because with a good narrative and presentation, you can make even the most cliche stories and dullest characters interesting. A story might have awesome twists and drama, and you might love the characters, but the storytelling dictates how predictable it turns out to be, how everything is presented, how well it manages the player to immerse in the world and feel attached to the characters, etc. That's why some cliche, simple stories manage to be far more entertaining than some stories with epic, awesome concepts and cool/ badass characters: Because they are actually well-written.
Gameplay:
- Battle Mechanics: 20
- Pace/ balance/ difficulty issues: 15
- Extras for the sake of replayability: 5
Bad pace, poorly-balanced systems and bad difficulty levels can make a big difference, but if the battle system is so awesome by itself, you might still find it enjoyable. Replayability is nice, but no one's will want to replay it if it sucks, and vice-versa as well, many people will be willing to replay the games they love regardless of the lack of any extras.
Atmosphere:
- Visual: 10
- Music: 15
- Sound Effects: 5
Music is half the experience. It can help to give an atmosphere to the world and to the story by its own. Visuals (graphics AND artstyle) also have an important role in immersing the player into the world, and good sounds effects will only enhance everything.
grenadeguru
Member
Story - 20%
Gameplay - 70%
Graphics - 5%
Sound - 5%
Gameplay - 70%
Graphics - 5%
Sound - 5%
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
What makes a perfect RPG?
-Japanese Character Design, with preferably a female lead.
-A Sphere Grid like level up system that is restrictive at first, but open later
-Battles on the same map with no transition a la Chrono Trigger
-A Magic system the grows depending on how many times you use it a la Grandia
-A Braching storyline that ultimately changes events of the game and the final outcome
-Music By Yasunori Mitsuda
-A cast of characters I love (Abyss, Valkyrie Profile) as opposed to characters I can't stand (FF12). Likability is important.
So basically....
20 Character design
20 Music
20 Battle System
20 Storyline
20 Level up system
-Japanese Character Design, with preferably a female lead.
-A Sphere Grid like level up system that is restrictive at first, but open later
-Battles on the same map with no transition a la Chrono Trigger
-A Magic system the grows depending on how many times you use it a la Grandia
-A Braching storyline that ultimately changes events of the game and the final outcome
-Music By Yasunori Mitsuda
-A cast of characters I love (Abyss, Valkyrie Profile) as opposed to characters I can't stand (FF12). Likability is important.
So basically....
20 Character design
20 Music
20 Battle System
20 Storyline
20 Level up system
Gameplay should not stop at the battle system. Dungeon crawling should present it's own challenges outside of simply finding the exit, interacting with other characters shouldn't just involve pressing and button and having them repeat the same few lines for the entire game. Leveling up shouldn't be something that's completely automated, it should take time and a lot of effort (such as selecting skills to improve in Etrian Odyssey).
Something I wish Japanese developers would really improve.
Something I wish Japanese developers would really improve.
thestopsign
Member
I guess I'll go on a little different route than most people here.
Gameplay - 35%
The only reason why this is so high is not actually because of the actual battle system, but more of the world design, dungeon layouts, bosses, and towns. The battle system just has to captivate me enough to keep me interested for about the first 10 hours. After the first 10 hours, I tend to just push on even if I'm bored of the system 'cause I'm weird like that. Keep the random-encounter rate down if it does have random encounters, or I'll run away a lot. The dungeons have to be more puzzle oriented than long corridors of nothingness. The bosses should be like Dragon Quest 8's earlier bosses, they should have personalities and be fun to face. I guess I should put that a normal level-up system, and not something like Baten Katos where you have to go to a Church and then level-up.
Sound - 30%
This is probably where I differ with most people. If the music/voice-acting in a game isn't good or even great, I can't play through it. I think the one exception to this rule for me was Tales of Symphonia, which had pretty much the worst voice-actors ever, and somehow I still managed to get through the game. I also get more excited about stuff whenever I hear great music playing through a cut-scene, it pumps me up and makes me want to keep on playing the game.
Story - 30%
If the gameplay is sub-par, story becomes more important for me. If an RPG doesn't have game-play or story, you can just forget about it. The story can be simplistic like Dragon Quest 8's, or it could be more on the end of Final Fantasy XII's, with politics and other stuff going on. Just don't ****ing bring religion into the story. That just completely ruins it. We all know the Church or whatever religious regime that is in place is either a) corrupt b) evil c) being used by the evil people for some purpose, or d) all of the above.
Graphics - 5%
As long as I can make out what that blob is on the screen and read the text I'm ok. It is a nice edition to the game when done right though. I'm really enjoying Final Fantasy XII's graphics right now, I'm sort of wondering how that was done on the PS2 right now. Good interesting character design is better than any graphical achievements though.
Gameplay - 35%
The only reason why this is so high is not actually because of the actual battle system, but more of the world design, dungeon layouts, bosses, and towns. The battle system just has to captivate me enough to keep me interested for about the first 10 hours. After the first 10 hours, I tend to just push on even if I'm bored of the system 'cause I'm weird like that. Keep the random-encounter rate down if it does have random encounters, or I'll run away a lot. The dungeons have to be more puzzle oriented than long corridors of nothingness. The bosses should be like Dragon Quest 8's earlier bosses, they should have personalities and be fun to face. I guess I should put that a normal level-up system, and not something like Baten Katos where you have to go to a Church and then level-up.
Sound - 30%
This is probably where I differ with most people. If the music/voice-acting in a game isn't good or even great, I can't play through it. I think the one exception to this rule for me was Tales of Symphonia, which had pretty much the worst voice-actors ever, and somehow I still managed to get through the game. I also get more excited about stuff whenever I hear great music playing through a cut-scene, it pumps me up and makes me want to keep on playing the game.
Story - 30%
If the gameplay is sub-par, story becomes more important for me. If an RPG doesn't have game-play or story, you can just forget about it. The story can be simplistic like Dragon Quest 8's, or it could be more on the end of Final Fantasy XII's, with politics and other stuff going on. Just don't ****ing bring religion into the story. That just completely ruins it. We all know the Church or whatever religious regime that is in place is either a) corrupt b) evil c) being used by the evil people for some purpose, or d) all of the above.
Graphics - 5%
As long as I can make out what that blob is on the screen and read the text I'm ok. It is a nice edition to the game when done right though. I'm really enjoying Final Fantasy XII's graphics right now, I'm sort of wondering how that was done on the PS2 right now. Good interesting character design is better than any graphical achievements though.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
I think there are many ways to make RPGs closer to perfection. As long as all of its aspects are well thought-of, deep, polished and creative, they should be amazing.
- It does not needs a gigantic, explorable world. If all the perfect RPGs were like that, then the writers would be very limited.
- It does not need thousands of items, weapons, armor, spells, summons. Shadow of the Colossus isn't a RPG, but it proves that a game doesn't needs countless stuff to be enjoyable. But it NEEDs to be deep.
- A perfect RPG does not needs dozen of mini-games, not even dozens of sidequests. Quality over quantity.
- It does not need 100-hour long quest. All it needs is a well-written and well-presented quest, regardless of how big or small it is (It also depends on the kind of story)
- It does not needs a gigantic, explorable world. If all the perfect RPGs were like that, then the writers would be very limited.
- It does not need thousands of items, weapons, armor, spells, summons. Shadow of the Colossus isn't a RPG, but it proves that a game doesn't needs countless stuff to be enjoyable. But it NEEDs to be deep.
- A perfect RPG does not needs dozen of mini-games, not even dozens of sidequests. Quality over quantity.
- It does not need 100-hour long quest. All it needs is a well-written and well-presented quest, regardless of how big or small it is (It also depends on the kind of story)
Walter Matthau
Member
Hcoregamer00 said:
Without killing the plot, what makes the characters in FFXII unlikeable? I was planning on getting that when it hit $20.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
The FFXII characters are not any better of worse than your typical JRPG characters, the problem is that they weren't very well implemented into the story in the last 2/3s of the game. In the first 1/3 part of the game they were well written, though, so they managed to be interesting during that part.parathod said:
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
parathod said:
I don't know, there is something about them that is not really that likable.
Likability is a subjective experience, but I just didn't like the cast of FFXII.
Um, if they had to focus on all aspects to the detriment of others, then Story 40, Gameplay 30, Aesthetics 30 (15/15). Aesthetics are considered relative to time of release.
Story and gameplay are both very important, but if a game has great gameplay and a nonexistent or weak story, I have less interest in it than in the converse situation, where gameplay is mediocre and story is grand. Every now and again I have a hankering for a straight senseless dungeon grind, but what really got me into RPGs and still draws me to them today are great stories.
Planescape (Torment) and Baldur's Gate 2 represent my ideal blends. In truth, Torment represents more of a 60 / 20 / 10 / 10 blend given that it does nothing special with the Bioware Infinity engine formula and rarely provides innovation or challenge in combat... but who cares because the best part about advancement is advancing the story.
Really, those Black Isle games are pretty much perfect if you look at them as a trio - you've got Icewind Dale for the pure dungeon crawlers, Planescape: Torment for the people looking mostly for a strong narrative, and Baldur's Gate shooting right down the middle.
Also, FF4, DQV.
Story and gameplay are both very important, but if a game has great gameplay and a nonexistent or weak story, I have less interest in it than in the converse situation, where gameplay is mediocre and story is grand. Every now and again I have a hankering for a straight senseless dungeon grind, but what really got me into RPGs and still draws me to them today are great stories.
Planescape (Torment) and Baldur's Gate 2 represent my ideal blends. In truth, Torment represents more of a 60 / 20 / 10 / 10 blend given that it does nothing special with the Bioware Infinity engine formula and rarely provides innovation or challenge in combat... but who cares because the best part about advancement is advancing the story.
Really, those Black Isle games are pretty much perfect if you look at them as a trio - you've got Icewind Dale for the pure dungeon crawlers, Planescape: Torment for the people looking mostly for a strong narrative, and Baldur's Gate shooting right down the middle.
Also, FF4, DQV.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
widgetraf said:
That's true, on the other hand I know what I like the cast of Grandia 1, Skies of Arcadia, Chono Trigger, and Tales of the Abyss.
Grandia 1 had a very human cast and Justin was a very likable lead that wouldn't let stuff get in his way. Feena was amazingly developed and so was the rest of the entire cast. In skies of arcadia each character was unique and they had a group dynamic that worked. In Chrono Trigger all the characters are well developed and happy go lucky and determined.
Tales of the Abyss has a great cast period. Luke was a prick that changes into one of the most memorable characters out there. Tear is easily one of the best female leads because of the dynamic she presents to the party. Guy is the typical Bishie with a problem and a past that is quite sympathetic. Anise is a likable girl that acts slutty but has a heart of silver somewhere down there. Jade was just an awesome character, PERIOD. Natalia is awesome because of her past and how she maintains her regal personality. The cast of villians are also as memorable, too bad they didn't get more of the spotlight.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Gameplay has to be simple to ease yourself into, yet complicated and varied so you can customize to your heart's content. Story has to be engrossing for me–you have a boring story, you can a game I won't be able to play through.
Basically, Final Fantasy VI, Paper Mario, and Chrono Trigger are the perfect RPGs to me.
Basically, Final Fantasy VI, Paper Mario, and Chrono Trigger are the perfect RPGs to me.
For me it was the sense of adventure, traveling to multiple towns, helping out the residents, buying new items and then going off and exploring a world I would actually want to live in or defend, not the more sterile dark and depressing worlds they usually make today. I actually like to escape into a better world then one I got thanks. A sense of exploration, great music, intelligent themes even if in simplistic forms.Story and characters just like novels are important to me, or were I guess when I still gamed regularly.
Since repetitious combat is a core of rpgs, you either have to have a combat gameplay engine good enough for 40-80hrs or you need to mix it up few times into the game and refresh it. I think for me alot this stuff was lost the last few years as market expanded and they catered to teens of playstation era instead, not folks that you would find reading novels or that look at games like artwork like around snes era. Al Lowe once said that adventure games were the perfect genre for 80s as you had to like using your higher functions back then to even figure out how run a pc like with editing auto exec.bat and con fig.sys, etc. Its good point as we traded in reading good dialogs for below average voice acting, traded in good puzzle and adult themes for more twitchy violent game play.
Plus games got alot more complex and detailed and I wonder if it was better being more simple, light, fun and left alot more to your our imagination. Plus the bad ass-dark-emo-kill matrix nonsense now I don't find them as engaging. For example it is common in rpg now to be on rails limiting your pathways and alot stuff you cant interact with. They traded that in for fancy 3D visuals instead which makes the world remind you every step -of the that this is just video game and believable immersing world. Its like we take step forward in one area and two back in others.
Since repetitious combat is a core of rpgs, you either have to have a combat gameplay engine good enough for 40-80hrs or you need to mix it up few times into the game and refresh it. I think for me alot this stuff was lost the last few years as market expanded and they catered to teens of playstation era instead, not folks that you would find reading novels or that look at games like artwork like around snes era. Al Lowe once said that adventure games were the perfect genre for 80s as you had to like using your higher functions back then to even figure out how run a pc like with editing auto exec.bat and con fig.sys, etc. Its good point as we traded in reading good dialogs for below average voice acting, traded in good puzzle and adult themes for more twitchy violent game play.
Plus games got alot more complex and detailed and I wonder if it was better being more simple, light, fun and left alot more to your our imagination. Plus the bad ass-dark-emo-kill matrix nonsense now I don't find them as engaging. For example it is common in rpg now to be on rails limiting your pathways and alot stuff you cant interact with. They traded that in for fancy 3D visuals instead which makes the world remind you every step -of the that this is just video game and believable immersing world. Its like we take step forward in one area and two back in others.
Short answer:
Story - 1
Graphics - 5
Gameplay - 57
Sound - 37
Medium answer:
Story:
Because there's no such thing as an original story or character in any form of writing, this is only relevant to the extent that I'm not be playing as characters I can't stand, such as Cloud or Squall. I don't need emotional involvement, just not an outright turnoff. Even if story was very important, though, I often find that even a bad one can seem interesting once an awesome soundtrack is behind it.
Graphics:
Again, if they're not a turnoff, they're good enough. This gets a higher score than story because it's much harder to give me a story turnoff than a graphical one. That said, if it's 3D from the PS1 or N64 era, or DS, I probably don't like it. If it has jaggies, I probably don't like it. Rare exceptions can be found.
Gameplay:
See long answer.
Sound:
Music has the capacity to make gameplay feel better than it actually is because of the atmosphere it provides. (It can also make it feel worse. Sure did in Yoshi's Island DS.) And, like I said earlier, it can also improve the story--or at least seem to. Great music is a pivotal component of a quality RPG.
Long answer:
Note that this is a really idealized perfect RPG, to me. I can consider an RPG about as good as it gets as long as it meets even 80% of these. Some aspects such as a great soundtrack and good graphics go without saying, so they won't appear on the list; this is more for specifics.
-Either character creation or a minimum of thirty characters. Odds are that I can find some sort of likable team with a cast of that size; with character creation it's guaranteed. (See Fire Emblem.)
-Loads of outfits. Aids enormously with replayability, so I don't have to stare at the same sprite/model all the time. (See Tales, or most things with character creation.)
-No useless moves in battle. If a spell exists, it had better have a use--and no, being able to use Sleep on one boss in the game out of fifty-eight doesn't count as a use. Every attack should be viable. (See Pokemon, Final Fantasy Tactics.)
-A large variety of moves. Unless it's an action RPG (and maybe not even then), the game should include something beyond the basic categories of Attack, Defend, Attack Spell, and Healing Spell. Multi-target doesn't count as a new category. If there are no stat buffs and status effects at minimum, it's probably not worth playing. Skills are better yet. (See Pokemon, Final Fantasy Tactics, Star Ocean 2.)
-Motoi Sakuraba (see hear Tales, Baten Kaitos, even GBA Mario Tennis) or Yasunori Mitsuda (hear Chrono Trigger).
-Japanese developer. No, really.
-Visible characters, at least outside of battle. This instantly dooms most dungeon crawlers and a decent number of western RPGs, yes, but it's my bias. I don't like first-person shooters much, I don't like first-person RPGs much, and to be honest I don't even like first-person novels that much. I already live life in first-person; I don't need to carry that over to a second meta-level in video games.
-Some sort of system in place to involve the battlefield. That's really broad, I know, but I don't really care how it's done as long as it's there. Fire Emblem uses terrain to change hit percentages; Star Ocean and Tales let you move around; Chrono Trigger has area-based damage; Pokemon and some Dragon Quest games have systems to allow most characters on the team to be withdrawn and safe from damage at any given time; Valkyrie Profile involved timing as each successive attack moved the enemy further back. I just don't want to be standing in one place at all times, stepping forward only for a moment to attack and then returning to my original position.
-Enemies, or at least bosses, relatively on par with you. If bosses are worse than you in every stat except that they have twenty times your HP, as it went in Mario & Luigi 2 and tends to go in Final Fantasy, it's less than perfect. Alternatively, if bosses and sub-bosses are better than you in every stat and you end up relying on critical hits, as it went in 7th Saga, it's also less than perfect. It should be the player's skill in balancing characters, moves, roles, etc. that determines who wins and loses a battle, never luck or broken stats. (See Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force, Fire Emblem, almost every other strategy RPG, Dragon Quest, multiplayer Pokemon.)
-The game should use one of two options for dealing with weak enemies:
1) Weak enemies are auto-defeated. (See Earthbound.)
2) Once a dungeon has been beaten, enemies never reappear there. This is only applicable to games where unused characters level up like the rest of the team, or where the team is tiny to begin with.
-Fixed stat growth. Makes for a more balanced game.
-Lots of female characters. >_>
-Battles are either not random or can be warded off with an item of some sort. (See Chrono Trigger--eh, honestly, see most RPGs.)
-Replayability. If it's awesome but I can only enjoy it once, it's not perfect. Meeting all three of the character creation, large variety of moves, and no useless moves criteria tends to grant replayability by default. Alternatively, give me multiple endings or post-game rewards or a matchmaking system or something like that. (See Star Ocean 2, Chrono Trigger, Tales of Symphonia.)
-Varied cast. That could mean either in terms of personality or in terms of species. The casts of Shining Force or Suikoden 2 have next to no personality, but they're loaded up with bizarre characters. Baten Kaitos Origins somehow managed to pull off a varied cast in both senses with a team of only three.
-Puzzles in an RPG with difficult puzzles and a New Game+ option should be skippable. I've never seen a game actually do this, but they should. There's usually not much of a sense of achievement in solving the same puzzle a second time, which just reduces the experience to tedium.
-The battle system is fun from the beginning. It might almost be one of those things that should go without saying, but a lot of games seem to think that it's okay to have some sort of painfully slow start and let you ramp your way up from there. I think it should start off perfectly fun and still get progressively refined as you move through the game.
I could probably think of more if I wanted, but I'm tired for now.
Story - 1
Graphics - 5
Gameplay - 57
Sound - 37
Medium answer:
Story:
Because there's no such thing as an original story or character in any form of writing, this is only relevant to the extent that I'm not be playing as characters I can't stand, such as Cloud or Squall. I don't need emotional involvement, just not an outright turnoff. Even if story was very important, though, I often find that even a bad one can seem interesting once an awesome soundtrack is behind it.
Graphics:
Again, if they're not a turnoff, they're good enough. This gets a higher score than story because it's much harder to give me a story turnoff than a graphical one. That said, if it's 3D from the PS1 or N64 era, or DS, I probably don't like it. If it has jaggies, I probably don't like it. Rare exceptions can be found.
Gameplay:
See long answer.
Sound:
Music has the capacity to make gameplay feel better than it actually is because of the atmosphere it provides. (It can also make it feel worse. Sure did in Yoshi's Island DS.) And, like I said earlier, it can also improve the story--or at least seem to. Great music is a pivotal component of a quality RPG.
Long answer:
Note that this is a really idealized perfect RPG, to me. I can consider an RPG about as good as it gets as long as it meets even 80% of these. Some aspects such as a great soundtrack and good graphics go without saying, so they won't appear on the list; this is more for specifics.
-Either character creation or a minimum of thirty characters. Odds are that I can find some sort of likable team with a cast of that size; with character creation it's guaranteed. (See Fire Emblem.)
-Loads of outfits. Aids enormously with replayability, so I don't have to stare at the same sprite/model all the time. (See Tales, or most things with character creation.)
-No useless moves in battle. If a spell exists, it had better have a use--and no, being able to use Sleep on one boss in the game out of fifty-eight doesn't count as a use. Every attack should be viable. (See Pokemon, Final Fantasy Tactics.)
-A large variety of moves. Unless it's an action RPG (and maybe not even then), the game should include something beyond the basic categories of Attack, Defend, Attack Spell, and Healing Spell. Multi-target doesn't count as a new category. If there are no stat buffs and status effects at minimum, it's probably not worth playing. Skills are better yet. (See Pokemon, Final Fantasy Tactics, Star Ocean 2.)
-Motoi Sakuraba (
-Japanese developer. No, really.
-Visible characters, at least outside of battle. This instantly dooms most dungeon crawlers and a decent number of western RPGs, yes, but it's my bias. I don't like first-person shooters much, I don't like first-person RPGs much, and to be honest I don't even like first-person novels that much. I already live life in first-person; I don't need to carry that over to a second meta-level in video games.
-Some sort of system in place to involve the battlefield. That's really broad, I know, but I don't really care how it's done as long as it's there. Fire Emblem uses terrain to change hit percentages; Star Ocean and Tales let you move around; Chrono Trigger has area-based damage; Pokemon and some Dragon Quest games have systems to allow most characters on the team to be withdrawn and safe from damage at any given time; Valkyrie Profile involved timing as each successive attack moved the enemy further back. I just don't want to be standing in one place at all times, stepping forward only for a moment to attack and then returning to my original position.
-Enemies, or at least bosses, relatively on par with you. If bosses are worse than you in every stat except that they have twenty times your HP, as it went in Mario & Luigi 2 and tends to go in Final Fantasy, it's less than perfect. Alternatively, if bosses and sub-bosses are better than you in every stat and you end up relying on critical hits, as it went in 7th Saga, it's also less than perfect. It should be the player's skill in balancing characters, moves, roles, etc. that determines who wins and loses a battle, never luck or broken stats. (See Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force, Fire Emblem, almost every other strategy RPG, Dragon Quest, multiplayer Pokemon.)
-The game should use one of two options for dealing with weak enemies:
1) Weak enemies are auto-defeated. (See Earthbound.)
2) Once a dungeon has been beaten, enemies never reappear there. This is only applicable to games where unused characters level up like the rest of the team, or where the team is tiny to begin with.
-Fixed stat growth. Makes for a more balanced game.
-Lots of female characters. >_>
-Battles are either not random or can be warded off with an item of some sort. (See Chrono Trigger--eh, honestly, see most RPGs.)
-Replayability. If it's awesome but I can only enjoy it once, it's not perfect. Meeting all three of the character creation, large variety of moves, and no useless moves criteria tends to grant replayability by default. Alternatively, give me multiple endings or post-game rewards or a matchmaking system or something like that. (See Star Ocean 2, Chrono Trigger, Tales of Symphonia.)
-Varied cast. That could mean either in terms of personality or in terms of species. The casts of Shining Force or Suikoden 2 have next to no personality, but they're loaded up with bizarre characters. Baten Kaitos Origins somehow managed to pull off a varied cast in both senses with a team of only three.
-Puzzles in an RPG with difficult puzzles and a New Game+ option should be skippable. I've never seen a game actually do this, but they should. There's usually not much of a sense of achievement in solving the same puzzle a second time, which just reduces the experience to tedium.
-The battle system is fun from the beginning. It might almost be one of those things that should go without saying, but a lot of games seem to think that it's okay to have some sort of painfully slow start and let you ramp your way up from there. I think it should start off perfectly fun and still get progressively refined as you move through the game.
I could probably think of more if I wanted, but I'm tired for now.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
1. Characters -- great characters can actually make up for the next most important thing:
2. Story -- you gotta actually go somewhere.
3. Gameplay -- in here falls battle systems, boss battles, battle frequency, leveling/upgrading, and control
4. Style: Music, Setting, and Artwork. We've all seen King Arthur come lately clones. What else you got?
Nail these above all else. If you hit these you will have a perfect RPG on any system. After that, you can think about the final polish, like graphics, cinematic presentations, mini-games/side quests, multiple endings, etc.
2. Story -- you gotta actually go somewhere.
3. Gameplay -- in here falls battle systems, boss battles, battle frequency, leveling/upgrading, and control
4. Style: Music, Setting, and Artwork. We've all seen King Arthur come lately clones. What else you got?
Nail these above all else. If you hit these you will have a perfect RPG on any system. After that, you can think about the final polish, like graphics, cinematic presentations, mini-games/side quests, multiple endings, etc.
Effulgence
Member
Story - 25 - Needs to be good. Gameplay may be fun, but if the story is boring I don't get hooked into playing through tough parts of the game. Also helps make the game memorable and worth a replay.
Sound - 30 - Sound is the biggest key in making a memorable game for me. Music that will stand the test of time and bring out the emotions of the story and situational gameplay is extremely important.
Graphics - 25 - Graphics need to be sharp and varied, otherwise can effect story and gameplay. They really don't need to be groundbreaking, but nice spell effects and awesome battle scenes can really add a lot to the game
Gameplay - 20 - As long as the world exploring is somewhat interesting and you dont need to spend hours and hours grinding in the battle system, its fine by me.
I guess I like my games pretty well rounded.
Sound - 30 - Sound is the biggest key in making a memorable game for me. Music that will stand the test of time and bring out the emotions of the story and situational gameplay is extremely important.
Graphics - 25 - Graphics need to be sharp and varied, otherwise can effect story and gameplay. They really don't need to be groundbreaking, but nice spell effects and awesome battle scenes can really add a lot to the game
Gameplay - 20 - As long as the world exploring is somewhat interesting and you dont need to spend hours and hours grinding in the battle system, its fine by me.
I guess I like my games pretty well rounded.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
PantherLotus said:
Bingo, good characters make a game good. Bad characters can make a good game bad.
I love grandia 1 because it has such a good linuep of characters and the cast were so memorable. In contrast I hated Grandia 2 so much because all the characters were jerks and pricks and you didn't care about them, even if the game had better pacing.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Zzoram said:
So basically you think a perfect RPG is a Western RPG.
For me, I break it down like this, as far as JRPG's go. Western RPG's and MMO's are a different breed of animal.
Story/Characters - 50%
Graphics/Sound/Presentation - 45%
Gameplay - 5%
The Gameplay just has to not suck. I don't play JRPG's for the amazing raw gameplay. I play JRPG's for the Story, Characters and Presentation. Those are what drive the gameplay. In just about any other genre, it's the opposite, but not for RPG's and specifically JRPG's.
If you take away the Story, Characters and Presentation from any of the great JRPG's, you're basically left with Grinding and Stat Twinking. And to me, that's not very fun.
Story/Characters - 50%
Graphics/Sound/Presentation - 45%
Gameplay - 5%
The Gameplay just has to not suck. I don't play JRPG's for the amazing raw gameplay. I play JRPG's for the Story, Characters and Presentation. Those are what drive the gameplay. In just about any other genre, it's the opposite, but not for RPG's and specifically JRPG's.
If you take away the Story, Characters and Presentation from any of the great JRPG's, you're basically left with Grinding and Stat Twinking. And to me, that's not very fun.
I can't deal with boring gameplay (FFXII, Kingdom Hearts) a horrible story (Disgaea 2) or bad music (nothing comes to mind here thankfully). Graphics can be SNES-level as long as they're charming.
It's rather important to me a game an RPG have random encounters (I don't like having to walk circles around enemies everywhere I go) and turn-based battle systems (no button-mashing plz) but I can live without those two elements if the rest is good.
Looking at those qualifications I don't know why I played Tales of Symphonia 2.5 times I guess I just thought it was pretty. Or I was bored.
It's rather important to me a game an RPG have random encounters (I don't like having to walk circles around enemies everywhere I go) and turn-based battle systems (no button-mashing plz) but I can live without those two elements if the rest is good.
Looking at those qualifications I don't know why I played Tales of Symphonia 2.5 times
I guess I just thought it was pretty. Or I was bored.
Walter Matthau
Member
Jiggy37 said:
I honestly think that alone would fix the problem I have with half of the RPGs I played. I build up half of my characters like gods for a harsh battle that will never take place or to learn abilities/spells. By the time I am ready to move on i've grown too bored to continue.
favouriteflavour
Member
steady story progression instead of big chunks of story spaced between x hours of boredom.
Actual decision making- I don't want to simply WATCH my characters interact; I want to impact their lives with MY choices.
Little to no grinding (or leveling for that matter)- There is absolutely zero fun in repeating the same thing over and over. Grinding too little results in challenge that doesn't stem from an actual need for skill and grinding too much results in a complete lack of necessity for skill.
Choosing the right "time" for your battle system- If a RPG developer chooses to have their battle system be turn based, there should be enough options in battle and enough of a need to evaluate those options in each and every encounter (VERY important) to actually need time stopped. (I can think of very few games that actually accomplish this. Final Fantasy Tactics is one of the only examples I can.)
If a system is real time, the controls need to be able to intuitively access most abilities, enemy AI needs to be responsive enough to require speed, and one should not be able to mash through the game.
Good dialogue and characters- Perhaps more important than the plot itself, dialogue is what sells or kills an RPG's story for me. Poor writing and stereotypical characters have been the bane of many an RPG.
No Random Battles- Seriously. I can't think of a single reason to have them. You should ALWAYS have enemies visible on the map. Then, if the player needs to fight (for whatever reason) they can simply initiate each fight instead of running around in circles. Not only that, but trying to get from place to place becomes much less frustrating. Finally, if you want that difficulty preserved, simply give enemies an aggro radius and adjust their attack behavior accordingly.
Little to no grinding (or leveling for that matter)- There is absolutely zero fun in repeating the same thing over and over. Grinding too little results in challenge that doesn't stem from an actual need for skill and grinding too much results in a complete lack of necessity for skill.
Choosing the right "time" for your battle system- If a RPG developer chooses to have their battle system be turn based, there should be enough options in battle and enough of a need to evaluate those options in each and every encounter (VERY important) to actually need time stopped. (I can think of very few games that actually accomplish this. Final Fantasy Tactics is one of the only examples I can.)
If a system is real time, the controls need to be able to intuitively access most abilities, enemy AI needs to be responsive enough to require speed, and one should not be able to mash through the game.
Good dialogue and characters- Perhaps more important than the plot itself, dialogue is what sells or kills an RPG's story for me. Poor writing and stereotypical characters have been the bane of many an RPG.
No Random Battles- Seriously. I can't think of a single reason to have them. You should ALWAYS have enemies visible on the map. Then, if the player needs to fight (for whatever reason) they can simply initiate each fight instead of running around in circles. Not only that, but trying to get from place to place becomes much less frustrating. Finally, if you want that difficulty preserved, simply give enemies an aggro radius and adjust their attack behavior accordingly.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Here's how it goes for me:
Gameplay: 50
A no brainer. Seriously, if you're more interested in the other aspects moreso than this than just stick to movies.
Story: 30
A bad story can SERIOUSLY drag an RPG down. A great story can accent the gameplay quite nicely.
Sound: 15
Catchy/Good/Memorable music heightens the experience, much moreso than graphics.
Graphics: 5
Seriously unimportant as long as they don't make my eyes bleed.
Gameplay: 50
A no brainer. Seriously, if you're more interested in the other aspects moreso than this than just stick to movies.
Story: 30
A bad story can SERIOUSLY drag an RPG down. A great story can accent the gameplay quite nicely.
Sound: 15
Catchy/Good/Memorable music heightens the experience, much moreso than graphics.
Graphics: 5
Seriously unimportant as long as they don't make my eyes bleed.
Actually, I like at least some randomly generated battles, I prefer turn-based or ATB, I think that level grinding is an appropriate and essential part of the RPG experience. I like my games to require grinding to the maximum level in order to have a chance of beating the end boss, or at least some worthy side boss.
Furthermore, I like rigid character classes (with maybe a little bit of customization, like skills, feats, perks - whatever the game system wants to call them).
Traditional RPG characteristics ftw. Modern RPG trends ftl.
My sweet spot in RPG gaming is anything that is highly traditional with a good / great story. DQ VIII was right up my ally.
* * *
Just ordered Etrian Saga - should be right up my ally, even though I surmise that like its western forebearers, it will be light on plot.
Odin Sphere is the most recent RPG I've played, and it had weak gameplay, but it had amazing presentation and a well-crafted story - if only it were harder.
Furthermore, I like rigid character classes (with maybe a little bit of customization, like skills, feats, perks - whatever the game system wants to call them).
Traditional RPG characteristics ftw. Modern RPG trends ftl.
My sweet spot in RPG gaming is anything that is highly traditional with a good / great story. DQ VIII was right up my ally.
* * *
Just ordered Etrian Saga - should be right up my ally, even though I surmise that like its western forebearers, it will be light on plot.
Odin Sphere is the most recent RPG I've played, and it had weak gameplay, but it had amazing presentation and a well-crafted story - if only it were harder.
Bidermaier
Member
I love turn based gameplay. It is perfect when i don't feel like playing something that requires too much concentration.
It like dogfighting, but legal.
It like dogfighting, but legal.
dannybaccala
Member
The Pokemon formula. Collect monsters and battle. Seems to be pretty popular.