The Albatross
Member
Also, WaveBird controller was truly advanced. The competitors on other consoles from Logitech, and whoever else, were all really shitty in comparison.
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What really went wrong with the Gamecube?
- Thread starter RedSwirl
- Start date
This was an interesting section, as it holds true for me. I went from an N64 to an Xbox, opting not to buy a PS2. (I did however have an original PS)
It's also funny that Goldeneye was the game I was playing most of the time on my N64. In my case anyway, this assessment seems to be pretty accurate.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Don't disagree with any of that. I think there are a lot of good, legitimate reasons for why the Gamecube sold poorly, and its poorer quality sports releases is definitely one of them,
I've just been of the opinion that the positives (like holy shit dat library) should have translated more commercially. And even though I understand why it didn't, I think its a real shame and says much more about the industry and its mainstream audience than I care to admit. Games like Wind Waker and Metroid Prime are pinnacles of game design and excellence, but not the type of games that can carry a console, even with their franchise pedigree ...
---
Regardless, sales considerations don't exclude the Gamecube from its rightful perch among the greatest consoles. As badly as the market treated it, the little lunchbox never stopped loving us back. And it ought to be recognized as such. It has a hell of a library, its Madden ports notwithstanding
Purple lunchbox, Celda, and Mario "Sunshine" gave it a massive kiddie stigma.
More than that though they stopped being aggressive towards Western developers, both externally and internally (as that recent Howard Lincoln article highlighted). NoA's management shuffled up in a bad way in their largest market.
More than that though they stopped being aggressive towards Western developers, both externally and internally (as that recent Howard Lincoln article highlighted). NoA's management shuffled up in a bad way in their largest market.
It suffered from an image problem its entire lifespan, mainly due to the reasons already mentioned in this thread. Once the public perceives a product a certain way, it's a major uphill battle for a company to overturn the negative perception. Not to mention the PS2 was just a beast, which didn't help matters.
Nintendo tried to turn it around with the "Who are you?" marketing campaign, but it was too little too late. If they had done something like that at launch and used the black/platinum system in the promo ads, it would have done a lot of good for the system.
Also, never forget this abomination:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WPteMFkI2k
Nintendo tried to turn it around with the "Who are you?" marketing campaign, but it was too little too late. If they had done something like that at launch and used the black/platinum system in the promo ads, it would have done a lot of good for the system.
Also, never forget this abomination:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WPteMFkI2k
The PS2 was a terrible system, but I'll still say it was the best system of all time too. The generation was over before it even began. It had about 16 months on the Cube and 18 months on the Xbox. As those two finally hit NA(And one launched anywhere in the world a few months earlier). PS2 already had or would have; GT3, DMC, MGS2, FFX, GTA3, Ace Combat 4, Silent Hill 2, Onimusha, Red Faction, Jak and Daxter, Twisted Metal Black, and early copies of Madden, THPS3, and all the other major multiplatform titles.
How was Nintendo or MS going to compete with that?
How was Nintendo or MS going to compete with that?
Naked Lunch
Member
Outside of F-Zero, pretty much every 1st party Nintendo Gamecube sequel was better on the N64. Every single one. Mario, Star Fox, Zelda, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, you name it - all worse than the N64 version. Simple as that. Gamecube was the last straw for Nintendo with me.
Jake Tower
Banned
revolverjgw
Member
Yellow rubber nipple stick, fuck that noise
Yeah, getting 4 GBAs together is pretty unlikely. Luckily, you can use multiple GCs and TVs.
I don't know anyone whoever successful did this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3NNZ65Z0IyE
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Yeah, getting 4 GBAs together is pretty unlikely. Luckily, you can use multiple GCs and TVs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3NNZ65Z0IyE
I remember Miyamoto and Iwata justifying Nintendo's no online approach with the GCN/GBA connection. LOL! Terrible decision.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Nintendo didn't sell Rare, they elected not to buy them.
So did adults. I was 27 when it came out.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
Nothing wrong with the gamecube. It had paper mario 2, wind waker, metroid primes, baten kaitos series, dk jungle beat, pikmins, mario sunshine, tales of symphonia, resident evils and great star wars games. Nothing wrong with gamecube. Maybe it wasn't good compared to the ps2, but what system can compete with the ps2 in great software quality games? Not even the PS3.
Neff
Member
Poor launch lineup, console was too colourful for superficial image-conscious buyers, Super Mario Sunshine was a significant downgrade from 64 in terms of gameplay, design, and creativity. Wind Waker was plainly unfinished and lacked challenge.
RE4, REmake, Metroid Prime and Brawl were the best things to happen to it, but ultimately a less-impressive incentive pool than N64 had.
PS2 dominated planet Earth and Xbox laid crucial foundations for robust, effective online console gaming. The Gamecube never had a shot of being a mainstream console. It was a secondary luxury.
RE4, REmake, Metroid Prime and Brawl were the best things to happen to it, but ultimately a less-impressive incentive pool than N64 had.
PS2 dominated planet Earth and Xbox laid crucial foundations for robust, effective online console gaming. The Gamecube never had a shot of being a mainstream console. It was a secondary luxury.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
The same was true for me and all my friends. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark defined the N64 for us, and Halo was our best option the following generation. And once Xbox Live came out, there was no way we'd ever go back.
Chittagong
Gold Member
We have done this before, but
1. Purple lunchbox with handle
2. Retarded mini DVD with no media capabilities
3. Shit launch advertising with samurais dancing in glass cubes
4. Win button kids controller
5. Microsoft with Halo, PGR, Rallisport, Panzer Dragoon, MM, SW KOTOR, JSRF and other teen titles
No single factor, but all of them combined resulting in a massive failure. 3rd party support was best Nintendo ever had since Super NES even, but it could not offset these five circumstances.
1. Purple lunchbox with handle
2. Retarded mini DVD with no media capabilities
3. Shit launch advertising with samurais dancing in glass cubes
4. Win button kids controller
5. Microsoft with Halo, PGR, Rallisport, Panzer Dragoon, MM, SW KOTOR, JSRF and other teen titles
No single factor, but all of them combined resulting in a massive failure. 3rd party support was best Nintendo ever had since Super NES even, but it could not offset these five circumstances.
Alias Greed
Neo Member
Private Server ? No way the server still active
tassletine
Member
Xbox aimed it's self at american college kids. The dudebro thing started there. It takes an American company to understand that market and capitalise on it. To this day that market thinks that Nintendo are immature.
Males of a certain age (me included) put the blinkers on. It's how the government tricks us into the army. We get kind of lost at a certain age and just want challenge and intense violent thrills. When your mates are all doing it you never want to leave.
Males of a certain age (me included) put the blinkers on. It's how the government tricks us into the army. We get kind of lost at a certain age and just want challenge and intense violent thrills. When your mates are all doing it you never want to leave.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Indeed.
Xbox managed to get the FPS crowd from N64 as well which Nintendo abandoned after Iwata's came to power and became japanese centric.
In addition to other things mentioned (such as the purple lunchbox, online, the strange controller), I would add poor developer support, and the development landscape (These days engine development is very multi-platform focused, however back then, each console supported was a much larger investment)
... seriously. It's such a good game too !
GameCube was basically dead by the time Guitar Hero came out.
Interesting, did Sony at the time have a larger first party output? I always picture Nintendo as at least excelling in that department, but was their studio/game count actually smaller? Is that still true today?
H_Prestige
Banned
The ps2 was too huge. Nothing was going to stop that train.
Version 3.0
Member
The PS2's success was the Gamecube's biggest problem, no doubt. But Nintendo made all kinds of bone-headed decisions that hampered its struggle to be a viable 2nd-place system.
Nintendo refuses to get with the times:
They pushed GBA connectivity while not just ignoring (mostly), but actively bashing online.
The controller has 2 fewer buttons than the competitions' controllers.
The disc capacity and memory card capacity (initially) were smaller than the competition.
Nintendo inexplicably didn't sell component cables in stores - and then removed the port in a later console revision (citing low adoption).
- All these factors were mentioned by developers at one point or another, and also constantly harped on by the gaming press.
The "kiddie" factor:
The system design (although cool to me) shouts "toy" while the others look more like "electronics".
The Gamecube's Zelda game, initially shown as a "mature"-ish concept, was re-designed to an off-putting "toddler" design. Wind Waker was a great game, with incredible cel-shading, but it was also a banner declaring the Gamecube, and Nintendo, were still "kiddie" - a curse they've been stuck with since SEGA painted them with that brush back in the 90's.
Mario Sunshine - the flagship Mario title - also had cloying "kiddie" marketing.
Lack of uniqueness:
Though there was little NoA could do about finalized system design, they refused to present the Gamecube as a unique system, and try to turn its flaws into strengths.
They put the games into DVD cases nearly indistiguishable from PS2 games on store shelves. I would have put them into smaller cases (like the Japanese ones), instantly making them stand out at retail, and then push the system's small size and weird handle as assets - semi-portable and unique-looking.
Still hanging on to former market dominance:
Did you know that the royalty or license fee to make a Gamecube game was higher than that of the PS2 or Xbox? Their 3rd party relationships, outside of some other Japanese publishers, were not as good as they should have been. And Nintendo has always been very tough on retailers (not that Sony, for example, isn't), but maybe a little humility would serve while in the position they were with the Gamecube.
Nintendo, while fighting for distant 2nd place, was still just as arrogant with developers and retailers as ever.
Nintendo refuses to get with the times:
They pushed GBA connectivity while not just ignoring (mostly), but actively bashing online.
The controller has 2 fewer buttons than the competitions' controllers.
The disc capacity and memory card capacity (initially) were smaller than the competition.
Nintendo inexplicably didn't sell component cables in stores - and then removed the port in a later console revision (citing low adoption).
- All these factors were mentioned by developers at one point or another, and also constantly harped on by the gaming press.
The "kiddie" factor:
The system design (although cool to me) shouts "toy" while the others look more like "electronics".
The Gamecube's Zelda game, initially shown as a "mature"-ish concept, was re-designed to an off-putting "toddler" design. Wind Waker was a great game, with incredible cel-shading, but it was also a banner declaring the Gamecube, and Nintendo, were still "kiddie" - a curse they've been stuck with since SEGA painted them with that brush back in the 90's.
Mario Sunshine - the flagship Mario title - also had cloying "kiddie" marketing.
Lack of uniqueness:
Though there was little NoA could do about finalized system design, they refused to present the Gamecube as a unique system, and try to turn its flaws into strengths.
They put the games into DVD cases nearly indistiguishable from PS2 games on store shelves. I would have put them into smaller cases (like the Japanese ones), instantly making them stand out at retail, and then push the system's small size and weird handle as assets - semi-portable and unique-looking.
Still hanging on to former market dominance:
Did you know that the royalty or license fee to make a Gamecube game was higher than that of the PS2 or Xbox? Their 3rd party relationships, outside of some other Japanese publishers, were not as good as they should have been. And Nintendo has always been very tough on retailers (not that Sony, for example, isn't), but maybe a little humility would serve while in the position they were with the Gamecube.
Nintendo, while fighting for distant 2nd place, was still just as arrogant with developers and retailers as ever.
POWERSPHERE
Banned
No DVD
Perceived as a kids toy when consoles were going through their teens and had to be 'tuff' looking
Low 3rd party support.
But my favorite console of that generation.
Perceived as a kids toy when consoles were going through their teens and had to be 'tuff' looking
Low 3rd party support.
But my favorite console of that generation.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
The DVD playback of the PS2 and XBOX (even if you needed a $50 remote for it to work on the Xbox) is probably THE most important factor.
I was working at a game store back then and it was a major selling point for the average consumer.
Core players already knew what they wanted before they entered the store, whereas casuals looking at the various options wanted to watch movies on the thing, too.
I was working at a game store back then and it was a major selling point for the average consumer.
Core players already knew what they wanted before they entered the store, whereas casuals looking at the various options wanted to watch movies on the thing, too.
eighty(one)
Member
If GCN could have played DVD from day one, it may have fared better.
That's my big takeaway from that era.
That's my big takeaway from that era.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Was this worldwide or just in some regions?
ExigentContact
Member
Nintendo's output was more prolific in terms of how people regarded the games, but their releases were relatively comparable to the small number of Sony first party games in actuality. Nintendo really abused IPs like Mario Party and Mario sports spin-offs and played their "main" IP release line a lot more conservatively in the GameCube era than they did during the Wii era. Sunshine was the GC's only main series platformer and it only really got one Zelda game because the GC was well past dead by the time Twilight Princess came out. To be fair, it did see two Metroid titles, which was more than the N64 ever got. Other games like Pikmin and Animal Crossing lacked big traction like their A rank series, despite performing admirably considering the system's install base.
Titles like Ratchet and Clank saw yearly releases for a good portion of the PS2's life span before the generation transition, with only one spinoff (on PS2). Jak and Daxter saw four releases over five years, with only one spin off.
There were four Mario Party titles on the GameCube, and one main series platformer. The Wii saw two Mario Party titles and three main series platformers. Wii saw its share of sports games in Mario and Sonic and GC ports, but the first party offerings in the main series area was pretty impressive.
lordchompy
Member
The assertion that Microsoft stole customers from Nintendo sounds pretty likely to me; the N64 was first-person-shooter central, yet the GameCube hardly had any.
Interesting read.
You can still see Iwata's hand today, especially the low-tech ideology.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
The worst offenses of Nintendo's first-party scheduling is sometimes they have no conception of balance or variety. You might get a stretch with 4-5 Mario spinoffs, and 2 pokemon spinoffs released back to back to back to back. They may have guaranteed software sales, but they limit the overall consumer base and ultimately fail to expand the portfolio.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
So what if Nintendo was stuck in the 90's?
swirlyglasses
Member
Oh well I suppose that makes sense now that I stop and think about rationally like a normal person.
Viewtiful Joe had 480p, PS2 port didn't.
F-zero GX had 60fps on the NTSC version.
So yeah. I have trashed my own argument and deemed it irrational internet rubbish.
This is more key than people think. Anecdotally-speaking, a lot of people I know laughed the system off purely based on this.
Such a shame.
Sony was the established brand in video games and entered that generation with stronger support and showed up earlier. That's basically it. Nintendo burned bridges during N64 and you aren't going to instantly rebuild them AND catch up with competition when there is no incentive.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Lack of third party support, Sony coming off the wildly succesful PS1 and Nintendo's stigma of being 'kiddy' were the primary causes of its failure, I'd say.
The fact that it looked like a purple lunchbox/purse designed by Fisher-Price probably didn't help either.
The fact that it looked like a purple lunchbox/purse designed by Fisher-Price probably didn't help either.
LSauchelli
Member
I imagine that the main problems were the disk sizes and 'strange' contoller.
Or maybe they needed to launch a GCN-speced Wii. I imagine that Wii Sports would've been even more explossive back in 2001.
Or maybe they needed to launch a GCN-speced Wii. I imagine that Wii Sports would've been even more explossive back in 2001.
Fuck Iwata if this is true. Nintendo was one of my favorite devs about 10 years ago.
Really? I remember being extremely impressed by the water in that game. And I was never a fan of SM64.
LSauchelli
Member
Super Mario Galaxy woyld've fared better than Sunshine, that's for sure.