• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources 2.0

Status
Not open for further replies.

MuchoMalo

Banned
No, its fairly consistent for Iwata's placement in the history of Nintendo. He never shied from power or high-end tech, but he'd simply put innovative ideas or in some cases fads ahead of it.

The GameCube is in a time when he was already high-up in creative and control positions of Nintendo, and he had his hands in its development. That was a powerful machine but it was smart, sleek, and small, and its performance was measured in real figures not the BS of Sony or Microsoft at the time... which hasn't abated.

The Wii and its parallel brother were a balance of innovation and competing power. Innovation won on a very good call, but even then there was a strong older brother. Again, Iwata never shied from power but he went with sleek, affordable, and innovative. They could have launched a 400$ Wii360... probably best they didn't.

3DS would have sported a brand-spanking-new chip right off the production run had Tegra done what was needed and what had been pitched (burn those bridges). It ended up weaker but not intentionally so, and ultimately just had its "3D fad" as a selling point aside from "Nintendo handheld".

The WiiU followed sleek and an idea on innovation, it just followed a bad idea. Even then, the hardware it has is good given the time and design ethos, just ask Blu (unless I am misremembering).

Still, all of these systems were designed to be affordable and profitable (gamecube was cutting it close), and the WiiU wouldn't have been a loss-leader if not for the value change in Yen (and the expensive screen controller).

Moreover, given other information we have on hand that I'd say is more than believable, its that Nintendo is looking to make sure that UE4 (not mobile) runs flawlessly on this machine. That gives you a floor on performance right there, and we also know where the CPU generally weighs in at on vague benchmark metrics.

Here's your happy floor for UE4, or, like Sony and Microsoft, you can go lower much to their chagrin: https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Recommended_Hardware

And everything I posted falls into that category unless your money is on a $250 ceiling, which I suppose is reasonable. My point is that there are a lot of reasonable places to place expectations, so I don't think that anyone should call expectations unreasonable unless they actually are such. 14nm isn't "fantasy" by any stretch of the imagination.
 

Eradicate

Member
Haven't seen any new bits of information yet, but it's been a very busy last few days. This week and next has quite a few game-related financial releases, so we'll see!

Sorry I've not been updating the OP, I've been a bit under the weather. :(

Anyone able to round-up anything I've missed? I recall the Macronix stuff and the new bit about Silicon Studio. Do we have an official translation of the former yet? I know a user earlier did a translation (thanks!), but I was wondering if we have an official one yet. :)

Anything else aside from those two?

Hey Hero of Legend, welcome back! Hope you feel better!

There was the Macronix information, Silicon Studio possibly doing game/middleware, Soul and Vibe Interactive wanting to develop/publish for the system, Gamestop CEO had some comments, and maybe a few other things!

Rösti;202932893 said:
This is very minor, but worth a mention. I have previously written about Soul and Vibe Interactive's intentions to pursue development and publishing licensing for NX, as they reported most recently in a 10-K filing dated January 02, 2016:


Source: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1515115/000114420416092295/R8.htm

Considering NX is now scheduled for a release in March 2017, I asked them about their intentions as of now. This is what they replied with:

Source: https://twitter.com/RostiNeoGAF/status/729301103217627136

Very cool! Nice!

Silicon Studio is a good catch. I sort of wonder if they'll bring their FFIX port to consoles?

That would be great! I'm fine with ports! They've got some really neat middleware that seems to be used a lot by Japanese developers (like Square Enix, Bandai Namco, etc.), so it could really bolster efforts in getting even more Japanese support for the NX.

No reason to get salty over her Tweet. There is absolutely zero chance that NX parts are in production at this point. So there is honestly no chance that Chips were being made to wrong specifications etc.

They could start production as late as November on actually manufacturing the consoles.

See, that's actually what I've been wondering about. Assuming it is a March 2017 worldwide release, what is the absolute latest they could start producing the hardware, get it packages, transited, and available for retailers? Could it really be November?

I have no idea, but if it could be that late, than I don't think 14nm needs thrown out or anything.

I'm expecting the system to be based on around mobile tech which has me thinking a high end mobile CPU/GPU combo probably over clocked because the console will have the thermal headroom. Highest flops I'm expecting is comfortably between the Xbox one and PS4. I would love to see a PSNeo competitor though.

Handheld same hardware probably less cores and underclocked maybe a different GPU to make the shared architecture work. Basically little and big brother.

Someone else had mentioned a possibility of the NX having a greater tie-in with mobile devices and things. Assuming mobile parts (like ARM) but put into a larger casing to be a console, could they hit the level of power of the current consoles? (Again, I have no idea!)
 

Jackano

Member
See, that's actually what I've been wondering about. Assuming it is a March 2017 worldwide release, what is the absolute latest they could start producing the hardware, get it packages, transited, and available for retailers? Could it really be November?

I have no idea, but if it could be that late, than I don't think 14nm needs thrown out or anything.

Would be January 2017 IMO at the latest, by expecting shortage if demands is in line with usual Nintendo launch numbers.

I'm no expert in logistics, but I often read storage cost a lot. IIRC the Wii and/or Wii U started production during September for their holiday launch.
So at max I'll say January, but giving the March date is a delay compared to the previous schedule, the November month could be the one where production begins - but not the latest possible option.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
There's no telling if NX will be discussed during the Electronic Arts Q4 2016 Earnings Conference Call, but that call is today, May 10, 2016, 2:00 PM PT.

Source: http://investor.ea.com/eventdetail.cfm?EventID=171833



I'll tune as always. There will be a dedicated thread for the event.

EA also has an Investor Day scheduled for May 17. There we could very well receive some comments about NX.
 
Someone else had mentioned a possibility of the NX having a greater tie-in with mobile devices and things. Assuming mobile parts (like ARM) but put into a larger casing to be a console, could they hit the level of power of the current consoles? (Again, I have no idea!)

ARM forecasted having mobile chips more powerful than the X-Box one and PS4 by the end of 2017. I don't know if they'll match it by the time the NX is ready, but they should be able to come close.

http://venturebeat.com/2016/02/16/m...playstation-4-xbox-one-in-2017-arm-forecasts/

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...raphically-equivalent-to-ps4-xbox-one-by-2017
 

Thraktor

Member
ARM forecasted having mobile chips more powerful than the X-Box one and PS4 by the end of 2017. I don't know if they'll match it by the time the NX is ready, but they should be able to come close.

http://venturebeat.com/2016/02/16/m...playstation-4-xbox-one-in-2017-arm-forecasts/

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...raphically-equivalent-to-ps4-xbox-one-by-2017

There are already ARM chips used in phones which outperform PS4 and XBO's CPUs on certain metrics, and an 8-core A72 chip on 14nm/16nm in a console environment (i.e. actively cooled) should substantially outperform them by pretty much any measure.

Edit: I just read the articles, and it seems they're talking about GPUs. I suppose in theory we could have tablets approximating XBO's theoretical performance by around then (going by the rate of growth of Apple's iPad GPUs, although they're PowerVR, not ARM's Mali designs), but tablets aren't handhelds, and theoretical performance in Gflops doesn't necessarily translate to real performance.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
I probably shouldn't post this, but there's this guy on Reddit posting Nintendo emails which look legit, saying that it'll be revealed at an event the end of July. That would make sense if the real reason for the delayed reveal is to avoid sharing the media spotlight with Sony and Microsoft due to inferior hardware as Emily has said, but it's still Reddit... Does anyone want to take a look and see if it looks right?
 
I probably shouldn't post this, but there's this guy on Reddit posting Nintendo emails which look legit, saying that it'll be revealed at an event the end of July. That would make sense if the real reason for the delayed reveal is to avoid sharing the media spotlight with Sony and Microsoft due to inferior hardware as Emily has said, but it's still Reddit... Does anyone want to take a look and see if it looks right?
Perfect date, more fireworks.
 

maxcriden

Member
I probably shouldn't post this, but there's this guy on Reddit posting Nintendo emails which look legit, saying that it'll be revealed at an event the end of July. That would make sense if the real reason for the delayed reveal is to avoid sharing the media spotlight with Sony and Microsoft due to inferior hardware as Emily has said, but it's still Reddit... Does anyone want to take a look and see if it looks right?

Wait, when did Emily say that NX is avoiding E3 so as to avoid looking interior in hardware compared to Sony and Microsoft? I missed that.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Wait, when did Emily say that NX is avoiding E3 so as to avoid looking interior in hardware compared to Sony and Microsoft? I missed that.

No, the spotlight part was what she said. I worded it poorly. Actually, she said both but not at the same time. I combined things.

Here's the link. Pretend that you saw nothing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nintendo_NX/comments/4ilwwq/fixed_july_related_post/

He's advertising his twitter, so there's a huge red flag right there. I think he's just a troll trying to get people's hopes up.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
No, the spotlight part was what she said. I worded it poorly. Actually, she said both but not at the same time. I combined things.

Here's the link. Pretend that you saw nothing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nintendo_NX/comments/4ilwwq/fixed_july_related_post/

He's advertising his twitter, so there's a huge red flag right there. I think he's just a troll trying to get people's hopes up.

I don't fully understand the email because it's in another language and I can't use Google Translate. However, what it seems like is that this person was in correspondence with Nintendo, mentioned a July event, and the Nintendo person responded with "Where did you hear about a July event?" Is that right? If so, that doesn't confirm a July event. Yes, it COULD mean that someone leaked it. However, just as easily it could be a Nintendo employee asking because they're concerned that someone is spreading false information and they need to have that person correct it.

Showing this email exchange is also dumb because the Redditer would be identifiable to Nintendo since they would have a record of this exchange. So, if this is supposed to be the poster leaking something, they now could get in trouble. Unless they're arguing that a Nintendo employee slipped up and they're trying to get the employee fired (which would also be easy to track down given the email text)? But I'm already saying that the employee didn't necessarily do such a thing given the text provided.

Of course, it's also super easy to fake emails.

I say there's no reason to believe in the conclusion that there's a July event, neither when looking at the credibility of the rumor as a whole nor even if you assume everything presented is real.
 

thefro

Member
No NX questions on the EA conference call, but the "mid-cycle console upgrades" question did have a bit of information you can read into. I'll post the transcript once it's up. It basically supports my point I've been making about Frostbite/Ignite making it easy for them to support new platforms with less risk.

Also the new Star Wars Battlefront is coming in 2017. I'll be shocked if that's not a NX title since there should be an audience match there.
 

Vena

Member
No, the spotlight part was what she said. I worded it poorly. Actually, she said both but not at the same time. I combined things.

Here's the link. Pretend that you saw nothing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nintendo_NX/comments/4ilwwq/fixed_july_related_post/

He's advertising his twitter, so there's a huge red flag right there. I think he's just a troll trying to get people's hopes up.

If you follow his info, and some deleted other info, it seems he also knows that the NX is at least the PS4/X1, but it would appear that they pivoted due to the imminent unveils of the Neo and 1.5.
 
I don't fully understand the email because it's in another language and I can't use Google Translate. However, what it seems like is that this person was in correspondence with Nintendo, mentioned a July event, and the Nintendo person responded with "Where did you hear about a July event?" Is that right? If so, that doesn't confirm a July event. Yes, it COULD mean that someone leaked it. However, just as easily it could be a Nintendo employee asking because they're concerned that someone is spreading false information and they need to have that person correct it.

Showing this email exchange is also dumb because the Redditer would be identifiable to Nintendo since they would have a record of this exchange. So, if this is supposed to be the poster leaking something, they now could get in trouble. Unless they're arguing that a Nintendo employee slipped up and they're trying to get the employee fired (which would also be easy to track down given the email text)? But I'm already saying that the employee didn't necessarily do such a thing given the text provided.

Of course, it's also super easy to fake emails.

I say there's no reason to believe in the conclusion that there's a July event, neither when looking at the credibility of the rumor as a whole nor even if you assume everything presented is real.
It's in German, Nintendo dude basically asks "What's your source for the mentioned July-event" and "We don't have any information about this July-event".

Seems real, but I doubt random Nintendo employee in Germany knows stuff.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
I don't fully understand the email because it's in another language and I can't use Google Translate. However, what it seems like is that this person was in correspondence with Nintendo, mentioned a July event, and the Nintendo person responded with "Where did you hear about a July event?" Is that right? If so, that doesn't confirm a July event. Yes, it COULD mean that someone leaked it. However, just as easily it could be a Nintendo employee asking because they're concerned that someone is spreading false information and they need to have that person correct it.

Showing this email exchange is also dumb because the Redditer would be identifiable to Nintendo since they would have a record of this exchange. So, if this is supposed to be the poster leaking something, they now could get in trouble. Unless they're arguing that a Nintendo employee slipped up and they're trying to get the employee fired (which would also be easy to track down given the email text)? But I'm already saying that the employee didn't necessarily do such a thing given the text provided.

Of course, it's also super easy to fake emails.

I say there's no reason to believe in the conclusion that there's a July event, neither when looking at the credibility of the rumor as a whole nor even if you assume everything presented is real.

It's in German, Nintendo dude basically asks "What's your source for the mentioned July-event" and "We don't have any information about this July-event".

Seems real, but I doubt random Nintendo employee in Germany knows stuff.

Okay, this all makes sense. I guess it remains to be seen.

If you follow his info, and some deleted other info, it seems he also knows that the NX is at least the PS4/X1, but it would appear that they pivoted due to the imminent unveils of the Neo and 1.5.

Which would be consistent with Emily's speculation, as well as my own speculation that Nintendo screwed up and failed to see them coming. That's unfortunate. I think that Nintendo having a handheld that can connect to a TV for $150-200 and a console 50% faster than PS4 for $350 would have resulted in the greatest long-term success overall. If this guy is legit, then that's not what Nintendo is doing since they would have been close enough to Neo to make that work in that case.

Well we now now one more thing about nx.
No disney infinity support coming :/

Huh? Edit: Oh.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
If you follow his info, and some deleted other info, it seems he also knows that the NX is at least the PS4/X1, but it would appear that they pivoted due to the imminent unveils of the Neo and 1.5.

Can you explain what you mean by pivot? I saw stuff referring to only Zelda being at E3, no holiday launch, and AMD negotiations—are you referring to one of those?
 
No, its fairly consistent for Iwata's placement in the history of Nintendo. He never shied from power or high-end tech, but he'd simply put innovative ideas or in some cases fads ahead of it.

The GameCube is in a time when he was already high-up in creative and control positions of Nintendo, and he had his hands in its development. That was a powerful machine but it was smart, sleek, and small, and its performance was measured in real figures not the BS of Sony or Microsoft at the time... which hasn't abated.

People like to make the claim that the system was more powerful than the PS2 because it launched later, but that wasn't true. The GC hardware was complete by the time the PS2 came out, but the games weren't ready. That's why the launch got pushed back. They did a hell of a job with the hardware.
 
I don't fully understand the email because it's in another language and I can't use Google Translate. However, what it seems like is that this person was in correspondence with Nintendo, mentioned a July event, and the Nintendo person responded with "Where did you hear about a July event?" Is that right? If so, that doesn't confirm a July event. Yes, it COULD mean that someone leaked it. However, just as easily it could be a Nintendo employee asking because they're concerned that someone is spreading false information and they need to have that person correct it.
You are 100% correct. The german wording is pretty clear tbh.

The dude is just inferring stuff.
 
You are 100% correct. The german wording is pretty clear tbh.

The dude is just inferring stuff.

It's an email with a service person at Nintendo Germany that would not have any insights whatsoever. It's not a source in anyway and it's no confirmation at all. Don't expect anything to happen in July.
 

E-phonk

Banned
Faking an email conversation has to be amongst the easiest things to do. We've had pictures of the controller from multiple angles that turned out to be fake. Emails is amateur level.
 

thefro

Member
No NX questions on the EA conference call, but the "mid-cycle console upgrades" question did have a bit of information you can read into. I'll post the transcript once it's up. It basically supports my point I've been making about Frostbite/Ignite making it easy for them to support new platforms with less risk.

Here's that quote I was mentioning

EA said:
Michael Hickey - The Benchmark Co. LLC

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my questions. Great quarter. Blake, you gave 25 million units growth for, I think, calendar year 2016. I'm curious if your assumptions, if you were expecting ease of new consoles this year, any price cuts of existing hardware? Or maybe any other sort of key considerations to that estimate? And then, I realize obviously you can't announce any new hardware plans from your partners, but there has been sort of wide speculation that you have a mid-cycle upgrade coming. And I was curious if you could sort of shape for us why a mid-cycle upgrade could be positive for the industry. And also if there is any potential development expense to developing games in 4K. Thanks guys.

Blake J. Jorgensen - Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President

I can't tell you a lot about what Microsoft or Sony or other console makers plans are. I think we've all seen some of the discounting that's been going on in the industry both through the holidays and post holidays. And there is continued aggressive bundling across the industry. And I think all of that acts to continue to drive people into consoles. I think the other thing that's important to remember is there are very few Gen 3 titles being still made. Most of the new titles that we're talking about as well as the industry is talking about are Gen 4-only, and that is a – will clearly start to push people to ultimately buy a new console if they've resisted, because they've had a choice to play a game on either Gen 4 or Gen 4.

In terms of any mid-cycle upgrades, once again I can't predict. But what I can tell you is that what was heard I think publicly from the console makers is they're realizing that the compatibility issue across consoles is an important consumer issue. And as Microsoft has shown, they've tried to do with some backward compatibility on to older titles and new titles. I think that's going to be an important part of what a mid-cycle might look like if there is one, which removes a lot of the risk associated with what we've seen historically with console cycles. We don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, because we feel like our ability to develop for whatever new technology comes, the risk of that's been minimized because we've moved towards one single engine, Frostbite. And we're able to port that to whatever platform or point that to whatever platform is evolving or is upgraded.

Obviously it's more about PS4 Neo/new XB1 upgrade, but I think the answer's relevant to the NX as well.
 

Orgen

Member
Until she has specific info to bring about hardware, I don't put much stock in that side of her rumour talk. That's more reminiscent of her insider beginnings than anything else.

Also I would like to hear Orgen take about what happened with the supposed nx reveal in this timeframe.

Hey daakusedo!

I'd like to use this post to give my most sincere apologies for saying something that it won't become true in the end. I was told at the end of March (and I don't have any doubt that this was true at the moment) that we should get more NX info in 1-2 months and that it was supposed to be similar to a revealing because the console was going to be released WW in November (that's why I implied that we would get more info before E3).

Unfortunately I don't have sources at NCL so any sudden change made by them could invalidate any info that I got previously. For that I'm deeply sorry.

Anyway, Nintendo is putting extra effort with the leaks so don't expect something like Trev's unveiling thread happening soon. That's why I decided to keep the little information I get for myself and not deceive you again (is the second time that it happens to me in Neogaf and I don't want to have a third :p).

So keep with official sources and let's wait for Nintendo to unveil it!
 

daakusedo

Member
Hey daakusedo!

I'd like to use this post to give my most sincere apologies for saying something that it won't become true in the end. I was told at the end of March (and I don't have any doubt that this was true at the moment) that we should get more NX info in 1-2 months and that it was supposed to be similar to a revealing because the console was going to be released WW in November (that's why I implied that we would get more info before E3).

Unfortunately I don't have sources at NCL so any sudden change made by them could invalidate any info that I got previously. For that I'm deeply sorry.

Anyway, Nintendo is putting extra effort with the leaks so don't expect something like Trev's unveiling thread happening soon. That's why I decided to keep the little information I get for myself and not deceive you again (is the second time that it happens to me in Neogaf and I don't want to have a third :p).

So keep with official sources and let's wait for Nintendo to unveil it!


You don't think there's high chance the thing gonna leak with this delay?
Particularly if it's planned for long after e3.
 

Sylfurd

Member
Sorry for the -once again- speculation, but if this is true, then i can't see NX be anything BUT 14nm.
I'm really not convinced. At all.

The rumor of an 14nm AMD chip in the NX comes from this announcement last year:
http://wccftech.com/amd-game-console-arm-x86-architecture/

At this time, there was no hint about PS4K nor Xbox 1.5, so we all supposed they talked about the NX.

Now we know there will probably be a 14nm AMD chip in the PS4K, I'm really not sure the NX will have one ...
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Here's that quote I was mentioning



Obviously it's more about PS4 Neo/new XB1 upgrade, but I think the answer's relevant to the NX as well.

If this were how EA felt about NX, they would have said something similar when they were asked about it before. This just makes it even more likely that EA never even considered supporting NX, or implies that NX can't run Frostbite.

I'm really not convinced. At all.

The rumor of an 14nm AMD chip in the NX comes from this announcement last year:
http://wccftech.com/amd-game-console-arm-x86-architecture/

At this time, there was no hint about PS4K nor Xbox 1.5, so we all supposed they talked about the NX.

Now we know there will probably be a 14nm AMD chip in the PS4K, I'm really not sure the NX will have one ...

What, do you think that only one of the semi-custom chips is 14nm? Or is it that you think NX won't be using an AMD chip and will use something like a mobile SoC instead? I can't think of anyone other than Nintendo who could be the customer for the ARM chip.
 
I'm really not convinced. At all.

The rumor of an 14nm AMD chip in the NX comes from this announcement last year:
http://wccftech.com/amd-game-console-arm-x86-architecture/

At this time, there was no hint about PS4K nor Xbox 1.5, so we all supposed they talked about the NX.

Now we know there will probably be a 14nm AMD chip in the PS4K, I'm really not sure the NX will have one ...

Yeah I've been wondering that for a while. It was supposedly a foregone conclusion that AMD would be supplying the NX CPU explicitly because AMD- and only AMD- mentioned at least one semi-custom design win for gaming (beyond gaming?) hitting the market in late 2016.

Now, that could still have been referring to NX if it was actually delayed to March like we all think it was, but it could also have been the neo all this time, like you said.

So maybe it's not even AMD! That would be kinda huge, no?
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Yeah I've been wondering that for a while. It was supposedly a foregone conclusion that AMD would be supplying the NX CPU explicitly because AMD- and only AMD- mentioned at least one semi-custom design win hitting the market in late 2016.

Now, that could still have been referring to NX if it was actually delayed to March like we all think it was, but it could also have been the neo all this time, like you said.

So maybe it's not even AMD! That would be kinda huge, no?

AMD has three semi-custom contracts, and the ARM one obviously isn't Sony or Microsoft.

If it's not AMD, it's a mobile SoC and will be used for a handheld and/or microconsole; it would be on-par with Wii U.
 
AMD has three semi-custom contracts, and the ARM one obviously isn't Sony or Microsoft.

From the link above they mention two semi-custom contracts- one ARM and one x86:

I will say that one [design win] is x86 and [another] is ARM, and at least one will [be] beyond gaming, right. But that is about as much as you going to get out me today. From the standpoint [of being] fair to [customers], it is their product, and they launch it. They are going to announce it and then […] you will find out that it is AMD’s APU that is being used in those products.

Also they say that at least one will be "beyond" gaming, whatever that means, but they don't mention whether or not both are for gaming. I'm not saying that the NX can't be one of those contracts, but based on the neo and XB1.5, we should be a lot less certain that the NX is one of those contracts.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
From the link above they mention two semi-custom contracts- one ARM and one x86:



Also they say that at least one will be "beyond" gaming, whatever that means, but they don't mention whether or not both are for gaming. I'm not saying that the NX can't be one of those contracts, but based on the neo and XB1.5, we should be a lot less certain that the NX is one of those contracts.

IIRC, that statement wasn't accurately translated and nothing along those lines has been said since. Besides, as I said, there's nobody else that the ARM contract would go to. If anything, it would be more likely that XboneZ opted for a separate CPU and GPU or isn't coming as soon as we think.

You are right that it would be huge, but you'd have to throw a lot of rumors under the bus for it to happen.
 

Thraktor

Member
From the link above they mention two semi-custom contracts- one ARM and one x86:

They announced another semi-custom win at the end of Q2 2015 as well (although no comments on architecture or application).

Basically we've got three semi-custom chips to consider:


  1. x86 - Started development ~Q3 2014
  2. ARM - Started development ~Q3 2014
  3. ? - Started development ~Q2 2015
One of the first two was described as "beyond gaming", so hence we can assume that the other 2014 chip is dedicated to gaming. When the two 2014 wins were announced they stated that they expected manufacturing to start in 2016, so the chip(s) ramping the second half of this year are probably them.

Then the list of possible partners, in roughly descending order of likelihood:


  • Sony (PS4K) - With PS4K all but confirmed, one of the above pretty much has to be on the chip that's powering it. It's an x86 chip and my money's on the 2015 design win, but it's possible that it's the 2014 x86 win.
  • Nintendo (home console) - Heavily assumed to be powered by an AMD chip, but we can't be 100% sure. Could be x86 or ARM. I would put it down as one of the 2014 wins (as that's when you'd expect design work to start on the SoC for a console with a planned late-2016 launch), but it could be 2015 if an early 2017 launch was planned all along (or AMD's quicker than we think at designing these).
  • Nintendo (handheld) - This is getting into slightly more questionable territory, as AMD has never actually designed a chip suitable for a handheld. However, with Nintendo seemingly moving towards a shared library between home console and handheld, there's a substantial advantage to them using the same GPU architecture on each, and in theory AMD's getting to the point where it can provide a competitive chip in a ~2W envelope, with ARM and Polaris on 14nm. It would be a first for Nintendo to use such a cutting-edge SoC in a handheld, though. It's also worth keeping in mind that this could loosely be described as "beyond gaming", not because the end product is used for much other than games, but because it gets AMD a foothold in the ultra-low TDP category used in phones and tablets.
  • Apple (iMac) - It's been rumoured that Apple will be using an AMD APU in their 2017 iMacs, which some people have taken to be an indication that one of the semi-custom wins is with them. It would certainly make sense for Apple to switch to AMD for their iMacs; Intel have dropped Iris Pro options from their desktop lineup, leaving Apple without any IGP options which can adequately handle the 4K and 5K screens. (It seems Intel are offering Iris Pro with desktop Skylake chips now, but AMD could still have the advantage on price) AMD could obviously provide Apple with something with the integrated GPU performance they require. However, there's no reason to believe Apple would need a semi-custom chip for this. AMD should have a variety of off-the-shelf Zen-based APUs available from 2017 onwards which would suit Apple, so there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of logic to pay for a semi-custom chip.
  • Various (HPC) - AMD still has a surprisingly big foothold in the HPC sector, given how long it's been since they've designed competitive cores for HPC. Since then we've also seen a massive growth in the use of GPUs as co-processors in the sector, so in theory a HPC APU, with plenty of Zen cores and a powerful Polaris/Vega GPU on the same die with a helping of HBM2 on the side, may be the kind of product they'd make on their return to the market. That said, there's no particular reason to assume that it would be a semi-custom chip, as even if they were, let's say, designing a chip for a large government-funded supercomputer, they would still generally own the IP themselves (and it would usually be publicised, for that matter). It suppose there's an outside chance of a large company like Facebook or Google hiring them to design a chip for a Skynet style AI supercomputer, but I wouldn't bet on it.
  • Microsoft (Xbox 1.5) - A lot of people seem to be assuming that MS are going to introduce a mid-gen update to the XBO, but as far as I can tell that's pretty much purely based on the idea that Sony's doing it, so MS has to be doing it too. There haven't been any reliable reports of its existence within the media (despite bundles of info on PS4K), but more importantly it's simply an impossibility if Nintendo is using an AMD chip for NX (as NX and PS4K would then make up two of the three semi-custom wins, meaning the last has to be "beyond gaming", and therefore not an Xbox).
  • Other - The last possibility is simply that it's something that hasn't been rumoured and none of us would think of. Perhaps Magic Leap are using an AMD semi-custom chip in whatever they're cooking up. Perhaps it's for some kind of military device. Perhaps it's a TV SoC. Who the hell knows?
I see two somewhat plausible scenarios:


  1. x86 - Q3 2014 - Apple/HPC/Other
  2. ARM - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX
  3. x86 - Q2 2015 - Sony PS4K
or

  1. x86 - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX Home
  2. ARM - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX Handheld
  3. x86 - Q2 2015 - Sony PS4K
In the first you could in theory have NX on x86 and an ARM "beyond gaming" chip going to someone else, but it doesn't really matter much one way or the other.

The second one explains why the first two design wins started design work at exactly the same time, although in this case the NX handheld APU would have to qualify as "beyond gaming", which may be a bit of a stretch.

That's basically my take on it, anyway.
 
EA probably didn't want to say much about the NX. They'll be there day 1 just like other third party's did just like the Wii U.

All Nintendo needs and yearly FIFA and Madden from them.
 
[*]Apple (iMac) - It's been rumoured that Apple will be using an AMD APU in their 2017 iMacs, which some people have taken to be an indication that one of the semi-custom wins is with them. It would certainly make sense for Apple to switch to AMD for their iMacs; Intel have dropped Iris Pro options from their desktop lineup, leaving Apple without any IGP options which can adequately handle the 4K and 5K screens. AMD could obviously provide Apple with something with the integrated GPU performance they require. However, there's no reason to believe Apple would need a semi-custom chip for this. AMD should have a variety of off-the-shelf Zen-based APUs available from 2017 onwards which would suit Apple, so there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of logic to pay for a semi-custom chip.

Intel's still doing desktop Iris Pro/Crystalwell options.
 

KingBroly

Banned
EA probably didn't want to say much about the NX. They'll be there day 1 just like other third party's did just like the Wii U.

All Nintendo needs and yearly FIFA and Madden from them.

I doubt those will be there Day 1. Maybe Day 1 in the fall with the other versions, but that's the best they can hope for right now, me thinks.

IN MY OPINION, Nintendo should try an investment plan for third party games, where Nintendo invests money in ports and any returns on said ports be used for continued support. The more you sell, the better you do, etc. I believe Emily Rogers mentioned something similar that Nintendo and Rare did back in the N64 days. Once I heard about that idea, it's been something I've wanted Nintendo to do with third parties since I think it's a worthwhile idea.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
They announced another semi-custom win at the end of Q2 2015 as well (although no comments on architecture or application).

Basically we've got three semi-custom chips to consider:


  1. x86 - Started development ~Q3 2014
  2. ARM - Started development ~Q3 2014
  3. ? - Started development ~Q2 2015
One of the first two was described as "beyond gaming", so hence we can assume that the other 2014 chip is dedicated to gaming. When the two 2014 wins were announced they stated that they expected manufacturing to start in 2016, so the chip(s) ramping the second half of this year are probably them.

Then the list of possible partners, in roughly descending order of likelihood:


  • Sony (PS4K) - With PS4K all but confirmed, one of the above pretty much has to be on the chip that's powering it. It's an x86 chip and my money's on the 2015 design win, but it's possible that it's the 2014 x86 win.
  • Nintendo (home console) - Heavily assumed to be powered by an AMD chip, but we can't be 100% sure. Could be x86 or ARM. I would put it down as one of the 2014 wins (as that's when you'd expect design work to start on the SoC for a console with a planned late-2016 launch), but it could be 2015 if an early 2017 launch was planned all along (or AMD's quicker than we think at designing these).
  • Nintendo (handheld) - This is getting into slightly more questionable territory, as AMD has never actually designed a chip suitable for a handheld. However, with Nintendo seemingly moving towards a shared library between home console and handheld, there's a substantial advantage to them using the same GPU architecture on each, and in theory AMD's getting to the point where it can provide a competitive chip in a ~2W envelope, with ARM and Polaris on 14nm. It would be a first for Nintendo to use such a cutting-edge SoC in a handheld, though. It's also worth keeping in mind that this could loosely be described as "beyond gaming", not because the end product is used for much other than games, but because it gets AMD a foothold in the ultra-low TDP category used in phones and tablets.
  • Apple (iMac) - It's been rumoured that Apple will be using an AMD APU in their 2017 iMacs, which some people have taken to be an indication that one of the semi-custom wins is with them. It would certainly make sense for Apple to switch to AMD for their iMacs; Intel have dropped Iris Pro options from their desktop lineup, leaving Apple without any IGP options which can adequately handle the 4K and 5K screens. AMD could obviously provide Apple with something with the integrated GPU performance they require. However, there's no reason to believe Apple would need a semi-custom chip for this. AMD should have a variety of off-the-shelf Zen-based APUs available from 2017 onwards which would suit Apple, so there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of logic to pay for a semi-custom chip.
  • Various (HPC) - AMD still has a surprisingly big foothold in the HPC sector, given how long it's been since they've designed competitive cores for HPC. Since then we've also seen a massive growth in the use of GPUs as co-processors in the sector, so in theory a HPC APU, with plenty of Zen cores and a powerful Polaris/Vega GPU on the same die with a helping of HBM2 on the side, may be the kind of product they'd make on their return to the market. That said, there's no particular reason to assume that it would be a semi-custom chip, as even if they were, let's say, designing a chip for a large government-funded supercomputer, they would still generally own the IP themselves (and it would usually be publicised, for that matter). It suppose there's an outside chance of a large company like Facebook or Google hiring them to design a chip for a Skynet style AI supercomputer, but I wouldn't bet on it.
  • Microsoft (Xbox 1.5) - A lot of people seem to be assuming that MS are going to introduce a mid-gen update to the XBO, but as far as I can tell that's pretty much purely based on the idea that Sony's doing it, so MS has to be doing it too. There haven't been any reliable reports of its existence within the media (despite bundles of info on PS4K), but more importantly it's simply an impossibility if Nintendo is using an AMD chip for NX (as NX and PS4K would then make up two of the three semi-custom wins, meaning the last has to be "beyond gaming", and therefore not an Xbox).
  • Other - The last possibility is simply that it's something that hasn't been rumoured and none of us would think of. Perhaps Magic Leap are using an AMD semi-custom chip in whatever they're cooking up. Perhaps it's for some kind of military device. Perhaps it's a TV SoC. Who the hell knows?
I see two somewhat plausible scenarios:


  1. x86 - Q3 2014 - Apple/HPC/Other
  2. ARM - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX
  3. x86 - Q2 2015 - Sony PS4K
or

  1. x86 - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX Home
  2. ARM - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX Handheld
  3. x86 - Q2 2015 - Sony PS4K
In the first you could in theory have NX on x86 and an ARM "beyond gaming" chip going to someone else, but it doesn't really matter much one way or the other.

The second one explains why the first two design wins started design work at exactly the same time, although in this case the NX handheld APU would have to qualify as "beyond gaming", which may be a bit of a stretch.

That's basically my take on it, anyway.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. I know that you still highly doubt 14nm though, so you're probably a bit less confident than I am.

I doubt those will be there Day 1. Maybe Day 1 in the fall with the other versions, but that's the best they can hope for right now, me thinks.

IN MY OPINION, Nintendo should try an investment plan for third party games, where Nintendo invests money in ports and any returns on said ports be used for continued support. The more you sell, the better you do, etc. I believe Emily Rogers mentioned something similar that Nintendo and Rare did back in the N64 days. Once I heard about that idea, it's been something I've wanted Nintendo to do with third parties since I think it's a worthwhile idea.

That's not a good idea at all. Setting up a reward system for third-parties would be extremely arrogant and piss them off more, and it won't help sales at all. If Nintendo wants to throw around money for third-party support in the long term, they need to throw that money at studios (both internal and external) to make exclusive IPs to appeal to a western audience. Just investing in ports is throwing money down the drain, especially for a mid-gen release.
 

Thraktor

Member
Intel's still doing desktop Iris Pro/Crystalwell options.

Hmm, seems you're right. Last I checked they didn't seem to have any planned for Skylake, but it seems there are a couple on ark.intel.com now. In any case I would assume AMD would be willing to offer a better deal than Intel on equivalent parts, providing Zen is at least somewhat competitive.
 

ozfunghi

Member
I'm really not convinced. At all.

The rumor of an 14nm AMD chip in the NX comes from this announcement last year:
http://wccftech.com/amd-game-console-arm-x86-architecture/

At this time, there was no hint about PS4K nor Xbox 1.5, so we all supposed they talked about the NX.

Now we know there will probably be a 14nm AMD chip in the PS4K, I'm really not sure the NX will have one ...

Not basing that on that announcement at all, really. Just common sense (i think). If PS4k is released sooner, on a 14nm node, it wouldn't make sense for Nintendo to go with 28nm months later.
 
"Controller has physical buttons"

Yay, maybe this was known before, but this is first I'm hearing this.

"There isn’t really a gimmick but what they are doing for NX is a “big deal”"

This is also very encouraging.

"CPU is not based on x86"

... and this isn't. I'm having a hard time believing this.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage

They told me that their contact at NoA product development knew about Nintendo NX being 2017 for quite some time.

Total BS. There is absolutely no way Nintendo rented that massive amount of floor space at E3 just for Zelda. It makes absolutely no sense. It was clearly supposed to be the NX blowout. 10k is absolutely ridiculous at this point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom