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[MetalGuardian]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39410470&postcount=367

Maclaren77 believes homosexuality is the same as raping animals (bestiality, which is obviously not consensual by any human definition.)

Canuck76 says "Yeah i stand behind that 100%. That's what i believe."

Ah, yeah. I was getting ready to talk about how he's just quoting a full Bible verse, but I looked it up... verse 22 is the one talking about homosexuality, and verse 23 talking about bestiality. No need to combine the two in the post unless he's trying to draw the comparison, but maybe that is in fact what the author of Leviticus is trying to do anyway.

Still, as reprehensible as verse 22 is, I still think it would be logically inconsistent to not see homosexuality as a perversion (maybe even in the same way bestiality is a perversion, if that is what the verse is trying to convey) if you are a Christian. If you don't believe that verse, what grounds would you have to believe the verses about eternal life? If one verse is wrong, how can you be certain any verses are right?

This goes back to me suggesting attacking and undermining the religious doctrine itself is more useful than berating the religious person. The religious person is just a product of the text they have put their faith in.

 

[astroturfing]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39410470&postcount=367

Maclaren77 believes homosexuality is the same as raping animals (bestiality, which is obviously not consensual by any human definition.)

Canuck76 says "Yeah i stand behind that 100%. That's what i believe."

wow. and the really sad thing is, these guys are probably pretty decent dudes otherwise, i doubt they go around robbing people or beating their girlfriends or anything. only religion or some other dogmatic ideology can make otherwise good people have absolutely horrendeous and illogical viewpoints like that... ive seen it too much to be honest :/

 

[Red]

wow. and the really sad thing is, these guys are probably pretty decent dudes otherwise, i doubt they go around robbing people or beating their girlfriends or anything. only religion or some other dogmatic ideology can make otherwise good people have absolutely horrendeous and illogical viewpoints like that... ive seen it too much to be honest :/

I am not sure where to place blame, or even if that's possible. ''Religion'' is vague and does not accurately explain the cultural or social aspects that have shaped their views. There are religious people who are accepting and understanding. Homosexualiy is called a perversion in the Bible but Jesus later on says ''May he without sin cast the first stone,'' and goes on and on about loving everyone. So you can say religion makes people think a certain way, and in some sense that is true: what they are taught as children gets accepted by their minds as correct. Their faith shapes their worldview (faith here the belief in a divine rule - - without thinking too hard about it). But at the same time a person can think for himself. They are not robots. They are absolutely free to examine the actual facts and reevaluate their beliefs. They simply choose not to.

 

[jaxword]

Still, as reprehensible as verse 22 is, I still think it would be logically inconsistent to not see homosexuality as a perversion (maybe even in the same way bestiality is a perversion, if that is what the verse is trying to convey) if you are a Christian. If you don't believe that verse, what grounds would you have to believe the verses about eternal life? If one verse is wrong, how can you be certain any verses are right?

This goes back to me suggesting attacking and undermining the religious doctrine itself is more useful than berating the religious person. The religious person is just a product of the text they have put their faith in.

Your approach is probably correct...if the religious person has any intent of listening to a "non." You'd be surprised how many people just scream CONTEXT as if unless you are inundated in the scripture, you wouldn't understand.

As you suggest, people pick and choose which verses are right and ignore those that contradict their worldview ("metaphors") and THAT is the true mark of a dishonest person who deserves berating.

 

[Canuck76]

It's a fact. Now it's a difficult fact. It's a complicated fact, but the old testament, where Christians who are opposed to homosexuality pick and choose bits of Leviticus that won't get them stoned to death (for wearing two different fabrics, for example) to confront homosexual behavior they don't like. I think if Christians (and others) took the entire bible as literally as those cherry picked passages, then they would have an argument to say, 'I can't help it, it's the literal instruction of god.' but the fact that there are literally HUNDREDS of passages they ignore because they seem outdated or barbaric shows how much choice and disrespect is actually at play here.

If your pastor insisted that you stone women to death for having a child out of wedlock, you might leave that church. But hate the gays? Prevent them from living in peace and love? Ok that's fine. That's choice. That's agency. That's cherry picking. And that's on you.

You're pretending your belief is somehow immobile and beyond your control. That is nonsense. You are choosing the entire thing, as well as its components and you aren't applying a single filter to the belief.

First of all i apologize, i've been away for a while and i was a bit busy. On to the issue here the old testament was for the nation of israel first and foremost. It's not meant to be the universal law for all people all the time. However the ten commandments were, and those were emphasized in the new testament as well.

A clear commandment in the 10 commandments is do not commit adultery. This can be many things but one of these things is homosexuality and bestiality among other things. Throughout the new and old testament it is shown and told very clearly that homosexuality falls under this commandment.

For more questions here's a great website to check out if your interested.
http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html

Or feel free to pop in the Christianity thread and ask! If you have any more questions or any sort of comments please post them and i can assure you i'll comment sooner this time.

 

[Canuck76]

Congratulations for being a horrible human being.

Just because you're not TRYING to wreck people's lives with that stupid-ass bigoted nonsense doesn't mean you aren't. I've seen it first-hand what simple off-hand remarks about how "gays are gross/ewww/horrible" can do to a person (I know a young lesbian couple, both of whom are still in the closet, who had/have to hear that kind of BS from other students at school, attitudes learned from their parents, and how it totally crushed the other girl). And don't you dare give shit excuses like "lulz, life is hard, deal with it". Having to deal with hardships like being jobless is different than having to deal with being gay or black in a bigoted society. There's nothing one can do to what you are, while stupid-ass shitheads can do a lot to not make their life any harder by not accepting them as the people they are and comparing what they are & do to having sex with animals.

Now let me be clear I don't go around using "gay" in a negative way a lot. I do sometimes, honestly because i used to quite a bit. I don't support the homosexual hijacking of that word either, but i understand how it can be offensive and i don't support that language use around people.

As well let me be clear that whole "life is hard" bit is about my belief being disrespectful to someone's lifestyle. Which is a sad, sad argument at best. That's just ridiculous postmodern babble, and almost 1984ish in respect to me having to change what i believe for everyone. It's also just not practical as life is full of people that will respectfully and sometimes disrespectfully disagree.

That's not being said in respect to homosexuality or homosexuals. Your just going to have to live with people disagreeing with whatever you say, little or big.

As for comparing, both are sins and perversions. Both are unnatural and wrong.

 

[Devolution]

Now let me be clear I don't go around using "gay" in a negative way a lot. I do sometimes, honestly because i used to quite a bit. I don't support the homosexual hijacking of that word either, but i understand how it can be offensive and i don't support that language use around people.

As well let me be clear that whole "life is hard" bit is about my belief being disrespectful to someone's lifestyle. Which is a sad, sad argument at best. That's just ridiculous postmodern babble, and almost 1984ish in respect to me having to change what i believe for everyone. It's also just not practical as life is full of people that will respectfully and sometimes disrespectfully disagree.

That's not being said in respect to homosexuality or homosexuals. Your just going to have to live with people disagreeing with whatever you say, little or big.

As for comparing, both are sins and perversions. Both are unnatural and wrong.

Unnatural, what a shitty term that means nothing.

 

[Rimfya]

Perhaps this is not the right thread, but I have a gripe that almost every second topic in gaming discussion could be titled:

Is this preconceived notion that I have widely accepted? |OT| (All I really want to do is post my obscure gaming thoughts on the internet)

 

[jaxword]

That's just ridiculous postmodern babble, and almost 1984ish in respect to me having to change what i believe for everyone.

...

Both are unnatural and wrong.

Irony.

 

[Timedog]

Both are unnatural and wrong.

You've already brought up the argument that it is "unnatural" on GAF before in the Orson Scott Card thread, which got completely and utterly shot down, and to which you had no real response. It's a fucktardedly ridiculous idea. Please provide a real argument for how it's unnatural, as well as how you do nothing that is unnatural or please stop engaging in discussion. Just the fact that you are attempting to engage in any sort of discussion with such a derpy idea is offensive to people that were born after the dark ages. Using the "unnatural" argument is just incontrovertibly dumb.

Please stop.

 

[Valhelm]

There's a really old thread from when GTA San Andreas was announced that had a bunch of people saying they wouldn't be able to relate to a black main character and how the game was already ruined because of it.

I've seen this mentioned half a dozen times. I believe you, but is there a link? I'm interested in what was said and the backlash the comments received.

 

[Charoncaori]

Now let me be clear I don't go around using "gay" in a negative way a lot. I do sometimes, honestly because i used to quite a bit. I don't support the homosexual hijacking of that word either, but i understand how it can be offensive and i don't support that language use around people.

As well let me be clear that whole "life is hard" bit is about my belief being disrespectful to someone's lifestyle. Which is a sad, sad argument at best. That's just ridiculous postmodern babble, and almost 1984ish in respect to me having to change what i believe for everyone. It's also just not practical as life is full of people that will respectfully and sometimes disrespectfully disagree.

That's not being said in respect to homosexuality or homosexuals. Your just going to have to live with people disagreeing with whatever you say, little or big.

As for comparing, both are sins and perversions. Both are unnatural and wrong.

I can live with people having different theistic beliefs, views on politics and history, different taste in food and tv shows. That's because those views don't hurt people. Calling an entire class of people perverted, unnatural and wrong is extremely hurtful, both to a homosexual person's feelings and quality of life. The fact that people can still be fired without legal protection for being gay is a PROBLEM in America, and directly stems from citizens believing they are superior to gay people.

So no. This is not a situation where we can just live and let live. It's an issue of human rights. You shouldn't be allowed to look down on gay people, like you can't look down on black people or women just for being born that way. Homosexuality is not a choice. This is not opinion. And if you insist on continuing to believe homosexuals are dirty sinners, we should be allowed to think that you are a bigot whose opinions are WORTHLESS.

And even if it was a choice, what they do is none of your business. I live with my boyfriend, out of wedlock. I take offense to people like you who look down on me. Why must you act so superior just because I made different life choices?

 

[MC Safety]

Unnatural, what a shitty term that means nothing.

It actually does mean something. Silly you thinking a word that does not perhaps apply in this circumstance has no meaning.

 

[Vivalaraza]

Unsurprising this thread now centres around a religious debate. Definitely the "worst" part of GAF IMO where you get some pretty silly things said on both sides.

Most recent thing I can remember was the guy who said the holocaust wasn't racially motivated or something, sure it's been mentioned, that was messed up.

 

[squidyj]

It actually does mean something. Silly you thinking a word that does not perhaps apply in this circumstance has no meaning.

flibbertyjibbets on the other hand....

 

[MC Safety]

flibbertyjibbets on the other hand....

That is a particularly cromulent word.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Attractive black women thread comes to mind. That shit was offensive as fuck.

 

[Air]

Attractive black women thread comes to mind. That shit was offensive as fuck.

I had to leave that topic when I saw it.

 

[Timedog]

It actually does mean something. Silly you thinking a word that does not perhaps apply in this circumstance has no meaning.

A word that is in the dictionary means something, wow, excellent insight.

If you want we could actually look at context when replying to things. Let me know if that's okay.

I can live with people having different theistic beliefs, views on politics and history, different taste in food and tv shows. That's because those views don't hurt people. Calling an entire class of people perverted, unnatural and wrong is extremely hurtful, both to a homosexual person's feelings and quality of life. The fact that people can still be fired without legal protection for being gay is a PROBLEM in America, and directly stems from citizens believing they are superior to gay people.

So no. This is not a situation where we can just live and let live. It's an issue of human rights. You shouldn't be allowed to look down on gay people, like you can't look down on black people or women just for being born that way. Homosexuality is not a choice. This is not opinion. And if you insist on continuing to believe homosexuals are dirty sinners, we should be allowed to think that you are a bigot whose opinions are WORTHLESS.

And even if it was a choice, what they do is none of your business. I live with my boyfriend, out of wedlock. I take offense to people like you who look down on me. Why must you act so superior just because I made different life choices?

Thank you for this post.

 

[BankaiZaraki]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=34510358#post34510358

Spoiler

but the lulz were had

So wrong its funny. Damn.

 

[MC Safety]

A word that is in the dictionary means something, wow, excellent insight.

If you want we could actually look at context when replying to things. Let me know if that's okay.




Thank you for this post.

I'd thank you for your post but it's crap as per the drill.

The poster I quoted suggested unnatural has no meaning. It does. End of story, dud.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I can live with people having different theistic beliefs, views on politics and history, different taste in food and tv shows. That's because those views don't hurt people. Calling an entire class of people perverted, unnatural and wrong is extremely hurtful, both to a homosexual person's feelings and quality of life. The fact that people can still be fired without legal protection for being gay is a PROBLEM in America, and directly stems from citizens believing they are superior to gay people.

So no. This is not a situation where we can just live and let live. It's an issue of human rights. You shouldn't be allowed to look down on gay people, like you can't look down on black people or women just for being born that way. Homosexuality is not a choice. This is not opinion. And if you insist on continuing to believe homosexuals are dirty sinners, we should be allowed to think that you are a bigot whose opinions are WORTHLESS.

And even if it was a choice, what they do is none of your business. I live with my boyfriend, out of wedlock. I take offense to people like you who look down on me. Why must you act so superior just because I made different life choices?

Pay attention Canuck76, this is the best explanation of how you are currently choosing to be a bad person.

Your view, no matter what light you try to cast on it, can be boiled down to "some people are beneath everyone else because of something they have no control over". You've stated in plain language that this is the core of your position.

You are rationalizing hate, hate against something that hurts no one. Think about that. Think deeply and introspectively about it, I'm serious. Think about what this says about your religion, and how your religion thinks the omnipotent creator of the universe views his creations. Think about how petty and stupid the creator of the universe would have to be to arbitrarily hate something he created, over an issue that is utterly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Think about why you came to think this way (because someone behind a pulpit told you to), and whether or not that holds more weight than everything your conscience (if you have one) must be screaming at you to the contrary.

 

[woodypop]

The poster I quoted suggested unnatural has no meaning. It does. End of story, dud.

I don't know where you're going with this, or if you're joking. But did you seriously really think that the poster literally meant that "unnatural" has no meaning, and therefore needed correcting?

Seriously?

 

[LaserBuddha]

I don't know where you're going with this, or if you're joking. But did you seriously really think that the poster literally meant that "unnatural" has no meaning, and therefore needed correcting?

Seriously?

He/she must be the only person who read that, and didn't understand that it meant "calling it unnatural is a hollow and meaningless argument to use."

 

[goomba]

If homosexuality is "unnatural" how come homosexuality is also apparent in the animal kingdom ?

 

[LaserBuddha]

If homosexuality is "unnatural" how come homosexuality is also apparent in the animal kingdom ?

Those animals are going to hell too.

The pleasure of anal stimulation is a trap built into our design, you see. A big red button that was installed simply for the purpose of not pushing it. It's a big cosmic April Fools joke, and those that fall for it provide more laughs by suffering unimaginably for all eternity. Our god is a loving god (and of course an omnipotent being who created all of existence would have priorities like this).

 

[MattKeil]

Now let me be clear I don't go around using "gay" in a negative way a lot. I do sometimes, honestly because i used to quite a bit. I don't support the homosexual hijacking of that word either, but i understand how it can be offensive and i don't support that language use around people.

As well let me be clear that whole "life is hard" bit is about my belief being disrespectful to someone's lifestyle. Which is a sad, sad argument at best. That's just ridiculous postmodern babble, and almost 1984ish in respect to me having to change what i believe for everyone. It's also just not practical as life is full of people that will respectfully and sometimes disrespectfully disagree.

That's not being said in respect to homosexuality or homosexuals. Your just going to have to live with people disagreeing with whatever you say, little or big.

As for comparing, both are sins and perversions. Both are unnatural and wrong.

All or nothing, Leviticus boy.

 

[Devolution]

If homosexuality is "unnatural" how come homosexuality is also apparent in the animal kingdom ?

Because people conflate "natural" with socially/culturally dictated by religion or society.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I had to leave that topic when I saw it.

wait,wait,wait what happened there???

 

[Des0lar]

If homosexuality is "unnatural" how come homosexuality is also apparent in the animal kingdom ?

There is (was, it's pretty old) a book called (translated) "The modern declining moral values of butterflies". No shit, this thing existed to explain gay butterflies. People go crazy lengths just to continue living in their bubble.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Those animals are going to hell too.

The pleasure of anal stimulation is a trap built into our design, you see. A big red button that was installed simply for the purpose of not pushing it. It's a big cosmic April Fools joke, and those that fall for it provide more laughs by suffering unimaginably for all eternity. Our god is a loving god (and of course an omnipotent being who created all of existence would have priorities like this).

God likes anal.

 

[Glass Rebel]

If homosexuality is "unnatural" how come homosexuality is also apparent in the animal kingdom ?

Every time someone mentions homosexuality in the animal kingdom I have to laugh uncontrollably:

"Dave, I love you... but I can't breathe."

 

[jimi_dini]

Getting mad about contributing openness to a platform? Still blows my mind.

Hotz did exactly the opposite. PS3 was open. Sony supported the openness. Hotz destroyed it. I mean tell me, what's better now? Some people got CFW, which they can use, but can't play online anymore nor get any more firmware updates. Linux people can stay on those lower firmwares and that's it. Even with the CFWs, they can upgrade a little bit and then stay there. Oh great. It all went to shit because of him.

And he has to be freaking stupid in logical thinking department. Using Linux to hack the PS3 in the first place and then wondering, why Sony removed Linux support. I can't still wrap it around my head. He has to have the mentality of a child (besides technical skills).

And the whole situation is even the better worst case. The really worst case would have been, if Sony wouldn't have been able to fix the issues. Because then piracy on PS3 would be freaking huge, cheaters all around, platform completely destroyed.

 

[gypsyOtoko]

I was really enjoying this thread until people started taking the religious and homosexual discussion seriously.

 

[Sephiroth503]

I was really enjoying this thread until people started taking the religious and homosexual discussion seriously.

I've tried to follow it and can't work out who's on what side :S

 

[Vaporak]

Now let me be clear I don't go around using "gay" in a negative way a lot. I do sometimes, honestly because i used to quite a bit. I don't support the homosexual hijacking of that word either, but i understand how it can be offensive and i don't support that language use around people.

As well let me be clear that whole "life is hard" bit is about my belief being disrespectful to someone's lifestyle. Which is a sad, sad argument at best. That's just ridiculous postmodern babble, and almost 1984ish in respect to me having to change what i believe for everyone. It's also just not practical as life is full of people that will respectfully and sometimes disrespectfully disagree.

That's not being said in respect to homosexuality or homosexuals. Your just going to have to live with people disagreeing with whatever you say, little or big.

As for comparing, both are sins and perversions. Both are unnatural and wrong.

Please do some reading. The Naturalistic Fallacy.

 

[jaxword]

I've tried to follow it and can't work out who's on what side :S

You could side with the guys who think homosexuals are no better than animal rapists, their view seems pretty cut and dry.

 

[Rokam]

All or nothing, Leviticus boy.

Holy shit, man I have to get around to watching West Wing, someone gave me all the seasons quite awhile back. Thank you kind sir.

 

[Osietra]

God likes anal.

Get thee behind me satan.

 

[zoukka]

I guess i'm another of those straight white men with thick skin.

How is your skin thick when it hasn't endured decades of lashing? Us white straight men have skin that of newlyborns.

 

[zethren]

Now let me be clear I don't go around using "gay" in a negative way a lot. I do sometimes, honestly because i used to quite a bit. I don't support the homosexual hijacking of that word either, but i understand how it can be offensive and i don't support that language use around people.

As well let me be clear that whole "life is hard" bit is about my belief being disrespectful to someone's lifestyle. Which is a sad, sad argument at best. That's just ridiculous postmodern babble, and almost 1984ish in respect to me having to change what i believe for everyone. It's also just not practical as life is full of people that will respectfully and sometimes disrespectfully disagree.

That's not being said in respect to homosexuality or homosexuals. Your just going to have to live with people disagreeing with whatever you say, little or big.

As for comparing, both are sins and perversions. Both are unnatural and wrong.

There is absolutely nothing "unnatural" or "wrong" about two consenting human beings loving each other and expressing that love. Period.

This shouldn't be an issue in fucking 2012.

 

[panty]

There haven't been a thread/post that would've offended me in some way. Of course there have been things that crossed the line of what is appropriate to say but straight offended me? Nope.

 

[zoukka]

There is absolutely nothing "unnatural" or "wrong" about two consenting human beings loving each other and expressing that love. Period.

This shouldn't be an issue in fucking 2012.

Is it love if satan caused it?

We need a new coming of jesus with updated ideals that would carry us the next to millenia.

 

[Salazar]

I don't support the homosexual hijacking of that word either

It's almost like you believe that there is a Homosexual Lexicographic Corps. A unitary strategy to boost heterosexual words in the middle of the night.

 

[zethren]

Is it love if satan caused it?

We need a new coming of jesus with updated ideals that would carry us the next to millenia.

I wish. Did Jesus not preach love and acceptance of all people? I doubt Jesus would agree that only heterosexual human beings deserve love and acceptance.

 

[jaxword]

Did Jesus not preach love and acceptance of all people?

Yes, but only if you agree with him (and you will, eventually...you all will, whether you like it or not.).

 

[xelios]

If you are asking for a source, as in a study or a scientific finding, then I have nothing for you. But I don't need a study to tell me something that is pretty obvious.

I can trace the reasons why homosexulaity developed for all of the gay people that I closely know. Some deny it, and some don't even realize that I know they are gay.

these factors are some of the reasons why homosexuality develops in people, but it doesn't always necessarily mean that people will turn gay because of them:

- Lack of a strong father figure. (no father, dad was too busy, etc..)
- Too attached to their mothers.
- Surrounded by sisters, with no males around him to form bonds with.
- Abused during childhood/teenage years.
- Faced Rejection by a female during childhood/teenage years, and that rejection left a lasting impact.

Now homosexuality on the other hand-and people like to claim otherwise-is not a genetic mutation or disorder, otherwise they would try to fix it, but a series of misidentifications, self delusions, and psychological conflicts.

Stuff like this comes to mind. Maybe not the most offensive, but certainly among the most ignorant posts ever made. JGS can be especially good at homophobic trolling similar to the above, but transparent trolling is not quite as offensive as genuine ignorance.

There've been much more outright offensive things. Wishing death on people, implying a girl deserved to get gangraped, things said about trans people or referring to them as "it", non human etc.

 

[Metalmurphy]

If homosexuality is "unnatural" how come homosexuality is also apparent in the animal kingdom ?

Please dont try to make a point towards homosexuality by using the animal kingdom unless you also want to make a point that beastiality, incest and murdering your own children is also natural.

The fact is, by definition of the word, homosexuality is not natural, biologically speaking it is not as nature intended, but that's "wrong" why? It isn't.

Many things stopped being "natural" a long time ago, we have being defying nature for ages, our morals is the only thing that define whats wrong and right, and people that think homosexuality is wrong, despite it existence coming from nothing but genuine physical and emotional attraction, simply have shitty morals.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

Please dont try to make a point towards homosexuality by using the animal kingdom unless you also want to make a point that beastiality, incest and murdering your own children is also natural.

Those things could be considered natural. However, the naturalness of something doesn't determine its morality.

The fact is, by definition of the word, homosexuality is not natural, biologically speaking it is not as nature intended, but that's "wrong" why? It isn't.

It is natural. If it wasn't as nature 'intended', then it wouldn't so up in animals.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Gays are unnatural!

__________
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