#Phonepunk#
Banned
I got to start ignoring all these DF bitch threads. Y’all the biggest babies in the universe lol
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What's wrong with Digital Foundry?
- Thread starter VFXVeteran
- Start date
I disagree, their quality is better on production, no doubt. But they are:-
I on the other hand
- Funded by Eurogamer and other sources;
- Have a team to work on content;
- Are all full time;
- Have a MUCH higher revenue from Patron and YT
- Have MUCH more contacts and connections in the industry (due to Eurogamer and RL)
- Am a single/solo entity;
- This is all part-time/side project as I work full time in the Technology and Development sector;
- Most of my videos are made (start to finish) between a Saturday and Sunday;
- I have no support other than my loyal Patrons and the small YT revenue (which I make almost no profit from);
- I have a very limited access to the industry but do have contact with a few good Developers in the industry;
All the above said, I present data, info and I believe a deeper technical insight into the engines, tech and games than they do. This is supported by many others who have commented as such INCLUDING developers themselves.
Am I better? Is DF better? Who cares!
The thing is choice and I stand by the fact my content is as engaging and informed as theirs but people can choose which they prefer...but
Great points. The fact that you're successful speaks for itself.
However...
If you want to take your success to the next level, this thread alone is full of evidence as to how to surpass all your peers, and achieve even greater success.
If you go all in on Sony products, you'll be universally loved by all. Now, when I say all in, I mean all in. Even the slightest hesitation to shower the utmost of praise will result in your immediate cancellation, and fall from grace.
My opinions and content are not to be taken seriously. I accept Sony and the PS4 as our overlord, and will remain grateful to them for all eternity. MS and Xbox are shady and not to be trusted.
polybius80
Member
Real madrid?
democrats?
why you use false equivalency fallacies?
using fallacies only tell people that have been years in forums that you have no argument
if you dont agree with the message you quoted you can discuss it and give arguments why is wrong, but calling names and using false equivalency is not addressing what you quoted
The argument has no nuance, it's a fiction, an invention, twelve pages in and it has zero evidence to support it.
Zero.
Consider yourself enlightened.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
The argument has no nuance, it's a fiction, an invention, twelve pages in and it has zero evidence to support it.
Zero.
Consider yourself enlightened.
I'm not normally enlightened by gaslighting.
Elektro Demon
Banned
I think you understood me wrong. I'm not disliking your content, in fact, I enjoy your videos.I disagree, their quality is better on production, no doubt. But they are:-
I on the other hand
- Funded by Eurogamer and other sources;
- Have a team to work on content;
- Are all full time;
- Have a MUCH higher revenue from Patron and YT
- Have MUCH more contacts and connections in the industry (due to Eurogamer and RL)
- Am a single/solo entity;
- This is all part-time/side project as I work full time in the Technology and Development sector;
- Most of my videos are made (start to finish) between a Saturday and Sunday;
- I have no support other than my loyal Patrons and the small YT revenue (which I make almost no profit from);
- I have a very limited access to the industry but do have contact with a few good Developers in the industry;
All the above said, I present data, info and I believe a deeper technical insight into the engines, tech and games than they do. This is supported by many others who have commented as such INCLUDING developers themselves.
Am I better? Is DF better? Who cares!
The thing is choice and I stand by the fact my content is as engaging and informed as theirs but people can choose which they prefer...but
I like yours and DF's content. And especially Coreteks.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
Subjectively and from your point of view, gtsport might look better in that screenshot, or in general.
Objectively though.... there's a whole lot of a difference in image quality, aliasing etc, which is expected, since fm7 is full-flat 4k , while gts is ...checkerboarded up to 1800p then ...upscaled to 4k.
And not only that, but there is also a big difference in the sensation of speed that these games offer, again with fm7 being the better one.
*I will not argue facts with non-facts, so please refrain from replying with something silly
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pawel86ck
Banned
There's only one video (gears 5) where I could tell something was wrong, but besides that I think their tech analysis videos are really fair. IMO the vast majority of people who game on multiple platforms dont consider DF biased and it's usually console fanboys who hate DF (simply because fanboys live in a fantasy world and DF destroys their illusions).
Even if DF would be biased they show performance numbers, side to side comparisons, screenshots etc. so people can still make their own judgement about certain game. Also it's always a good idea to watch more tech analysis materials (nxgamer, vgtech, resero, elanalistadebits and even kingthrash), because only then you get the full picture every time.
Even if DF would be biased they show performance numbers, side to side comparisons, screenshots etc. so people can still make their own judgement about certain game. Also it's always a good idea to watch more tech analysis materials (nxgamer, vgtech, resero, elanalistadebits and even kingthrash), because only then you get the full picture every time.
Tschumi
Member
I don't know what you mean by that.. i guess you mean you don't want me to keep insisting on his slip ups.
You seem to be saying two things, and you can feel free to contradict me here:
A) it's 4k, which is why it doesn't look as good.
B) it looks faster.
I'll start with B) yes, i agree. I've always thought GT cars seemed kind of sedate compared to games like NFS, which is perhaps why i don't actually play GT.
A) do you realise the problem with that statement? We concede in one breath that GT looks better, while simultaneously saying that F7 has a higher resolution. In what world is 4k better in any way if it just shows off worse graphics? Furthermore, 4k doesn't actually boost polygon count, right? It just means there are way more pixels, so the image is sharper, right? So what we're saying is, not only does F7 not look as good, we can also see the imperfections better?
Didn't we just have this same conversation about Half Infinite? We would settle for 1440 if it let them make the game look gorgeous while still running at 60fps?
What I'm ultimately saying here is this: things are being said here to resist there being a straight up, cold winner in the graphics stakes. 4k is being used as if it is a graphical feature, rather than a TV screen pixel density count.
You know, back in 2002 or 03 i was really, really happy to get True Crime: Streets of LA on my GameCube. Why? Because we couldn't get GTA. True Crime was the closest we could get, and i loved that game hugely. Did it look as good as GTA? Not a chance. Was it as fun as GTA? Hell no. I knew these things as i played it, i still loved True Crime.
F7 is the True Crime to GT's GTA. F7 fans have to embrace its inferiority and hope that at some point on XSX the developers crack it for a game that really has a chance of approaching GT for graphical beauty. I care not about 4k.
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nkarafo
Member
A few minor things i don't like about Digital Foundry:
1) Dark posting on Resetera and generally giving a shit about it.
2) Displaying retro games on modern panels with perfect pixels and visible dithering instead of using proper CRTs.
Other than that, they are perfectly fine for me.
1) Dark posting on Resetera and generally giving a shit about it.
2) Displaying retro games on modern panels with perfect pixels and visible dithering instead of using proper CRTs.
Other than that, they are perfectly fine for me.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
Cool story bro about your stone years of shortages.
But in reality, other than sense of speed, forza has also been excelling in physics and content too. I don't even want to analyze that.
EVERYONE who has both machines, these or even the previous ones knows it.
In general, forza exceeds during playtime. All the one-ups gt has are by vast majority during non-playtime, like replays, photomode, presentation.
Like another poster said, comparing photomode instead of runtime was rather unfair of DF, which is why I find your posts regarding the subject hilarious.
Recently they even one-uped the latest show of gt7, because while nowhere in-game was raytracing to be seen on that trial mountain gameplay snippet, they acted it out like what was seen in the trailers and pit animation was actually in-game. Well, it wasn't.
Stuff like shadow creeps and texture popups during playtime was like invisible for them, as well as the poor sound was inaudible (ex. tunnel).
Thus, complaining about DF specifically on gran turismo games coverage is certainly a joke, much like this entire thread is.
Tschumi
Member
So the new line is F7 is more fun and exhilarating. Hilaaaarious. Doesn't "hilarious" just roll off the tongue~ Love it! Yeah, tires fly when you hit them in F7 - I mentioned that in my OP here, actually. Actually, in the video he says that photomode in those games is the same as in-game, which is why they chose to use photomode as it allowed them to better view car features. But, correct me if I'm wrong, they have got numerous instances of in-game footage, mid-race footage, from both games. So whatever you're trying to say about only being shown GT during non-playtime moments strikes me as, ahem, better lick my lips before I say this delicious put down: Hilaaaarious. The trees look better in GT during races, the draw distance is longer, the cars look better, yes there are few speed effects - I think you'll find I already conceded that - but the rest is superior, in-game and in replays.
So, on to GT7, from what I remember of that video there is raytracing in game. I will rewatch the video if you like but I remember clearly that rear view mirror reflections are ray traced. But beyond that, I quite clearly remember the reviewers saying that there is plenty of ray tracing on display - at 60fps.
---
So, you've decided to start taking me on by belittling my comments - 'cool story bro' 'your posts regarding the subject are hilarious" - well, thanks for getting nasty. I note very happily that you've entirely forgotten that my whole point on this thread is saying that their GT vs F7 video is evidence that they bend their reviews to perpetuate an illusion of an equal console race. I do, however, happily watch all their videos. Have a nice evening/morning/whatever~
LittleBigGamer
Banned
What's wrong with Digital Foundry?
Dictator's bias.
Dictator's bias.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
be my guest
other than the complete lack of ray tracing, feel free to notice the other things I mentioned (poor sound, shadow creep, texture pop) that DF didn't see or hear,
then maybe you will reconsider
In fact, it was this completely hilarious part of your post that had me laughing and decide to reply:
<< Are you kidding? Look at them. It's like a generational difference >>
Now go on, do your homework on DF gt 7 and try to find something useful to say, if you still have to say something.
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Tschumi
Member
Let's use the actual DF video, shall we? With its uncompressed footage? And listen to what herr germandude says about Ray Tracing throughout the video?
Hmmm
oishi!EDIT: The video is about 3 games, the portion on GT is short, I'm disappointed. I look forward to a better video about it - but he does have time to note ray tracing during the in-game footage portion.
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LittleBigGamer
Banned
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Scotty W
Member
Are you saying that Hitler was a truth teller?Hitler : thank you!
SupremeHoodie
Member
I remember back in the day when DF were Sony biased (back in the 720p vs 900p days) and the outrage wasn’t this high from gaf. lol
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martino
Member
Platon is goddam right.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
That never happened. Leadbetter was a MS apologist from the early days, pre-DF. Even in the early PS4 days when Xbox was releasing games in 900P he made excuses and spun it. Don't try to revise history, lots of us have been watching him for years.
bilderberg
Member
DF shills for Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. You'd have to be delusional to think they have bias over one and not the other. And the amount of sponsored content they've been putting out lately is shady. Their knowledge as enthusiasts is fine, but none of them cleary have any actual industry experience in tech, and they get information wrong, or just omit information all the time.
LittleBigGamer
Banned
According to your example yes. According to me no.
Halo bias was not actually MS bias, it was PC bias. Alex did the analysis.
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AllBizness
Banned
If you sponsor Eurogamer or Digital Foundry they will give you positive bias at best and positive constructive criticism at worst. Fuck Digital Foundry with an elephant's dick.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
Let's use the actual DF video, shall we? With its uncompressed footage? And listen to what herr germandude says about Ray Tracing throughout the video?
Hmmm
EDIT: The video is about 3 games, the portion on GT is short, I'm disappointed. I look forward to a better video about it - but he does have time to note ray tracing during the in-game footage portion.
dont tell me that I've been wasting my time with a ...fanboy?
I put up for you the official ps5 gt 7 trailer, pointing directly to when in-game trial mountain starts.
DO YOU SEE ANY RAY TRACING IN-GAME?
NOPE, YOU DONT! THERE IS NONE!
DOES DF THUS IS TALKING BALONEY ON THEIR OWN VIDEO?
YEAP, THEY DO!
Please continue telling us how DF is biased against gran turismo and playstation, now that we have the proper perspective
PLATO FFS!Hitler : thank you!
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martino
Member
i've seen that especially from nvidia
SupremeHoodie
Member
Lol it did happen. Every single time a multiplat game came out df would try to spin it like the ps4 was some godsend console compared to the measly Xbox one in resolution even though both were sub 1080p and then whenever Xbox has a game with a good resolution they would downplay it. Stop. lol
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bilderberg
Member
Because every ps4 game did, just about, run at a higher resolution than xbox.
Give one clear example.
SupremeHoodie
Member
Which is fine, but whenever the first edition of the Xbox one did have impressive resolution and matched the ps4 they would just glide past it in their comparisons, but when the opposite happened they would take a good 5 minutes to talk about it. This changed after the first year or two though obviously.
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bilderberg
Member
when did the opposite ever happen? I can't think of any xbox version running at a higher resolution.
Edit: i get what you're saying. But I don't think you should get points for matching the ps4.
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Tschumi
Member
Am i supposed to feel like my point is invalidated by being called a fanboy?
"Do you see any Ray tracing in game?" What if i do? It's like my tech-fu verses your tech-fu, right? And in your universe your tech-fu is king, right? So how am i supposed to feel convinced by your cocksure assertion?
You've strawmanned me, if i understand this right. I was using the GT vs F7 video to talk about how they tend to try and paint the console race as being even when it isn't (see also: Halo Infinite looks bad because lighting) you then stormed in with increasingly flamey posts about gt7 and ray tracing? And the video does mention rat tracing (it isn't a comparison video between am Xbox and ps title, so i don't know why you think you've caught me with it) so i point it out, now I'm going back on my statement about their misrepresenting the console race? How?
Is your trailer uncompressed?
I'm going to bed now, if you come at me with more rabid flaming I'll just have to rest on my statements thus far.
LittleBigGamer
Banned
Who said that it was not Plato?
This seems like a flawed argument. At least in the comparisons made.
My knowledge is limited on game design, but having played both games F7's sense of speed seems better to me but I'm not sure if that includes the biggest difference between the two.
With F7, I get the sense that I'm directing a car around a track. A visual comparison at a stand still matters not to me... Especially something so fleeting as background textures which are impossible to extract detail from in the mere microseconds they're on screen for most of the time.
With GTS, I get the sense that the track is moving beneath a static image of a car. When I turn the car left, it feels as though that static image is rotated, and that it's the environment as a whole that is moving. I apologize for my lack of ability to accurately describe it. While I get that in reality, that racing games may be made actually doing what I just described, the ultimate goal however is to fool the user into believing that it's the car that's moving... Not the track. F7 does that, whereas GTS does not.
As to your last point? I also largely disagree. See, when you try and shoehorn one small aspect into an overall suggestion that one game is superior to another, it usually doesn't work, and this is no different.
What really needs to be embraced here is reality. While GTS may indeed be graphically superior to F7 in some aspects, it doesn't do so across the board. Even if it's not as good in some very specific graphical areas, the two are very close, and aptly comparable. What's not even remotely close, and almost not comparable at all due to such a large disparity is everything else. Car count, track count, weather, etc... How you compare F7 to True Crime when it's most obvious shortcoming vs GTA is the overall size and variety of the game is silly. True Crime was a chopped down version of GTA that while might be comparable graphically... It wasn't even close to comparable in the overall scope of content and scale. So in fact, it's GTS that is plays the role of True Crime here, while F7 enjoys the position of being GTA.
Your last paragraph is almost laughable. If F7 fans have to embrace it's inferiority, then hopefully they manage to do so while playing with more cars, with more tracks, with better physics, and in the beauty of 4k. Your lack of care for 4k doesn't change the fact that overall F7 is simply superior to GTS... Not inferior. For your sake, let's hope that Polyphony can perform better, and crack it for a game that really has a chance at approaching F7 in Graphics, content, variety, and not to mention review scores.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
This would be an interesting point if people hadn't been complaining about this bias long before we knew which console had better specs.
Tschumi
Member
All that is as well, i mean, I'm not going to convince you either way.
My point with my posts has been, must be, that digital foundry test my devotion when they put out videos that try to balance out the consoles. Disagree with my points if you will, but looking at my original post in this discussion (second post on the thread i believe) i am looking through That DF video and finding side by side comparisons that do not match up with what the guy is saying at the time.
Halo Infinite is not a refined lighting engine away from looking great. "It looks flat" was never the core complaint of people watching that video - but it is the only component the DF guy focuses on.
In the GT vs F7 video, the same guy repeatedly tries to frame the video as a comparison of two graphically comparable games, despite showing footage (F7 in max settings on a PC) that doesn't bear it out. This is disingenuous on the part of that reviewer.
But I still watch DF videos with huge appetite.
Somewhere in this thread I've already said that GT appears flat slow, which is why i don't play much GT in my personal gaming life. F7 may be more exhilarating, that's not the point I'm contesting in this thread.
Edit: i acknowledge that i lost the thread of my original post when i started with the True Crime stuff. I'll be more consistent in future.
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An interesting point it shall be then. Seeing as the complaining started started shortly after one consoles specs became superior to the others.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
That's... not true... I was involved in a thread last October over their analysis of Gears 5, for instance. I personally know for a fact they have been getting lots of flak here long before this goalpost you've set up, and that's besides the point of whether or not it's DESERVED. So, don't assume I'm arguing that.
Fair enough.
I do believe F7 and GTS to be graphically comparable. While GTS may have the upper hand, to suggest that the difference is so massive that the two aren't even comparable seems a bit overboard to me.
The fact that F7 was compared on max settings on pc is an argument often mentioned. The problem with that argument is that DF wasn't comparing the consoles. It was comparing the games, and as F7 was a game released on pc, it's perfectly reasonable for them to use that version. While I can't remember, was GTS gameplay from the PS4Pro, or just a regular PS4? Let's let the memory remain forgotten, because if it was a PS4Pro then why wasn't it shown on a PS4? To suggest that F7 should be handicapped by being shown on weaker hardware, or conversely was given an advantage by being shown on pc only suggests an overall platform bias is at play. The fanboys want that console to console comparison. Enthusiasts just want the comparison of the two games being discussed.
The only thing disingenuous is suggesting that the reviewer is being disingenuous because he won't handicap a game during reviews to give their preferred console a leveraged position. Don't blame DF for using the pc version of F7. Blame Sony for NOT having GTS on pc. F7 didn't cheat by releasing on pc. Sony hamstrung GTS by restricting it to PS4.
As for your other point? The version of Halo Infinite shown is apparently an older one. So it's an older version of a game that's likely not as graphically good as the current version.... Of a game that's not even released, and isn't due to release for a few more months. But somehow DF is biased because they didn't shit all over it? Yeah.... Seems legit to me.
Sorry fella, but it is true. The goalpost you're referring to is your own, but of course I could be wrong. When did DF start widely catching flak here? About when that Gears analysis was done?
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
They literally always have.
While it could be my memory, I don't recall there always being this much criticism of DF for being biased towards MS. While I'm sure there have been random posts saying as much since day one, on a wide scale it seems to only be more recently that they've been widely accused of it.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
The truth is it happens in spurts, not every video they do is going to trigger these reactions but some will, that's why I pointed to their Gears 5 analysis as that spawned a huge thread that drew the attention of John himself to the discussion/argument. I even had a PM session with him over it, personally and a person making Youtube videos critical of DF's analysis, King Thrash Gaming, also participated in the thread and made counter videos to arguments IN THAT THREAD. I would say that's all pretty huge. This thread's existence is due to someone ASKING why people have problems with DF, it wasn't begun by someone with a problem and in the asking you invite more scrutiny and explanations.
That's a perfectly reasonable explanation. However, I can't seem to remember any triggered reactions prior to that Gears 5 analysis. Were there obvious examples of bias towards MS before that?
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I was more a lurker before that. I'm pretty sure any thread comparing a game on both consoles usually resulted in triggered reactions, tbh, the fact that they got some kind of exclusive access to the Xbox One at the onset of last generation caused a lot of speculation on their objectivity as well.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
My guy look, they used Photomode to compare them both. GTS in photomode is enhanced like crazy, think it as a pc ultra mode on its own (but you can't play in that mode). They are using a enhanced version of tracks and cars when they compare them wich you don't have a issue with but you are complaining about them for using pc mode wich is the best version of the game.
Look at the difference between gameplay and photomode and tell me they didn't do Forza dirty and used photomode in favor of GTS
Look at the car models, shadows, reflections, draw distance, environment detail, grass and trees. All of it gets enhanced when you go to photomode, you see how flawed there comparison was? Forza in gameplay graphics actually does alot of things better than GTS and its obvious when you play it back to back like i do. But DF skipped alot of Forza's advantages like its nothing. But i find 1 thing funny, in Next Gen Racing graphics comparison thread some DF haters here where posting that DF video constantly to prove that GTS was the better looking game and now they are calling them biased. Thats the thing i don't understand, like when they fit your agenda its ok for them to claim false things but when its the other way around than they are biased.