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Where Do Dedicated Handhelds Go From Here?
- Thread starter Vanillalite
- Start date
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I think Sony will just gently fade away from the handheld market.
The Vita doesn't sell in the west, but it actually has pretty good software support(mainly indies) and it makes a bit of money for Sony.
The Vita is doing ok in Japan.
Sony will just keep it going, but they won't build another handheld after the Vita.
Nintendo in the other side is doing fine all over the world with the 3DS, but they have other problems. They are basically dead in the home console market and the handheld market is shrinking. So one of their two profit streams basically disappeard and the other one is shrinking. It looks like the 3DS already peaked in 2013.
So Nintendo is in dire need of new ways to make profits, I don't think the 3DS will be enough for Nintendo.
The Vita doesn't sell in the west, but it actually has pretty good software support(mainly indies) and it makes a bit of money for Sony.
The Vita is doing ok in Japan.
Sony will just keep it going, but they won't build another handheld after the Vita.
Nintendo in the other side is doing fine all over the world with the 3DS, but they have other problems. They are basically dead in the home console market and the handheld market is shrinking. So one of their two profit streams basically disappeard and the other one is shrinking. It looks like the 3DS already peaked in 2013.
So Nintendo is in dire need of new ways to make profits, I don't think the 3DS will be enough for Nintendo.
The Real Napsta
Member
Why does every word in the thread title begin with a capital letter?
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Mostly agree.
Though I think Sony may just push PS Now on tablets/phones (there's and others) rather than making any specific companion device.
GhostTrick
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhM2Y3pKUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSI28Q-N5ZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly4NxbFMDno
Games are now running better since updates. It is going somewhere, the only thing we need is a damn controller. The hardware is already there.
Daytonabot
Banned
Because it's a thread title?
It wouldn't get me out of gaming but I know what you mean. It would be a huge blow for me.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
No reason why they would not have incorporated some of these amenities from other gaming tablets and platforms into the Vita(especially) or 3DS.
For that I hope the 3DS and Vita are killed off, but both platforms have been good to me so...
For that I hope the 3DS and Vita are killed off, but both platforms have been good to me so...
Its been out over 2 years in Japan and still hasnt hit 3 mil. Better in Japan yes but still its a struggle.
It's not doing well in Japan. Well, it's doing better. It is selling like a six year old machine about to be phased out. I mean #champion #2014vita or whatever.
3DS is declining in Japan.
In the US, vita is dead and 3ds is getting its ass handed to it by PSP.
I would suggest Nintendo aim for something super cheap, single not-resistant touch screen , with robust online infrastructure to support a ton of F2P titles.
Sony will never make another handheld as we know them, but they make another PS Xperia kind of device, which might be cool if they get it right.
Nintendo's future rests on their next handheld, and I reckon it's closer than people think. Late 2015 should be their aim. As for what they do with it, it needs to be the following:
1. Good industrial design that people will be happy to be seen using. Ditch the clamshell, learn from phones and tablets. Button must obviously be kept. A good visual design could make or break the product.
2. Lower price - launch at 200 dollars
3. Lower priced software - handheld software needs to be 20-30 dollars rather than 40-50. Remember that despite the quality increase, you're competing with free.
4. Support f2p games.
5. Proper account system, apps and VC all ready to go at launch with no hiccups.
6. Launch with one hardcore game, one big casual game and one f2p game.
If they can do what I just set out they'll be fine. The 3ds was a poorly thought out device that has had adequate success based on the strength of its software alone. If they can get the hardware right next time then they have a chance of making a proper hit.
EDIT: Fucking beaten by Kev by mere seconds. Mods, eh?
Nintendo's future rests on their next handheld, and I reckon it's closer than people think. Late 2015 should be their aim. As for what they do with it, it needs to be the following:
1. Good industrial design that people will be happy to be seen using. Ditch the clamshell, learn from phones and tablets. Button must obviously be kept. A good visual design could make or break the product.
2. Lower price - launch at 200 dollars
3. Lower priced software - handheld software needs to be 20-30 dollars rather than 40-50. Remember that despite the quality increase, you're competing with free.
4. Support f2p games.
5. Proper account system, apps and VC all ready to go at launch with no hiccups.
6. Launch with one hardcore game, one big casual game and one f2p game.
If they can do what I just set out they'll be fine. The 3ds was a poorly thought out device that has had adequate success based on the strength of its software alone. If they can get the hardware right next time then they have a chance of making a proper hit.
EDIT: Fucking beaten by Kev by mere seconds. Mods, eh?
200 is not a lower price. I am talking $99.
A good start would be adding those second shoulder buttons, clickable analog sticks, and not having overpriced proprietary memory cards. I love my vita but the starting price, after buying the console ($200 new), getting a game ($20-$40), and buying a memory card ($30-$100 if you want a realistic one), is so close to the price of a PS4 and is, basically the price of a PS3 and Wii U, why would anyone get one unless you love handheld gaming?
And it was the best-selling hardware in Japan last week, which is just...depressing.
Surely you mean non-capacitive. I envision something like the 2DS but with one tall screen, a couple of analog pads (for Monster Hunter) and a launch price tag in the $99-$120 range. Keep it simple to engineer and very affordable.
gigantor21
Member
Jesus Christ.
I knew that handhelds had deteriorated compared to last gen, but...Jesus Christ. The 3DS and Vita are selling just above half as much as the PSP combined?
stuminus3
Member
As a fan of both Nintendo handhelds and iOS gaming, I'll have to say they're only the same thing on paper. The reality is they're very different. Different form, different markets, different games. Even without considering the dual/3D screen on the 3DS they don't fulfil the same needs.
What I think Nintendo need to thrive in future is to capitalise on this, to make a selling point out of the differences. They have somewhat done that by giving the 3DS an amazing library of first party games. But their marketing seems to largely be geared around 'preaching to the converted'.
What I think Nintendo need to thrive in future is to capitalise on this, to make a selling point out of the differences. They have somewhat done that by giving the 3DS an amazing library of first party games. But their marketing seems to largely be geared around 'preaching to the converted'.
By late 2015 / 2016 in a recovering economy, and factoring in price inflation since 3ds launch, 200 dollars will be a pretty cheap device. Making a 99 dollar device means you might not be able to make the premium device that Nintendo would want to (as it wants to be able to sell premium games) and it would give them nowhere to go with their pricing. Going from 99 to 80 bucks is nothing. If you can afford 50 or 80 you can afford 100. You're starting in the basement at that price when there's no need to do so if the product is good.
They would be sustained by early adopters and middle class parents at 200 for the first year at least if the software is there. If there are great f2p games people might be willing to pay 200 dollars knowing they won't have to pay any more. 100 dollars is too low to me. It's the realm of the bargain bin. And I think there's no chance that they come in at anything lower than 150, and if you were asking me to bet I reckon they'll come in at 220, and be at 150/180 by the next Christmas.
$99 is too cheap isnt it. What kind of device could they produce selling to consumers for under $100.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I do think the days of a dedicated handheld ever selling anywhere near 100 million are sadly long gone. The 3DS sales ultimately depend on Nintendo's software, and so far, this year has been pretty lacking in that regard. Although its counter-intuitive, It actually makes sense they're releasing Smash Bros 3DS first.
Boss Mog
Member
I still think there's a big market for dedicated handhelds. I mean most people playing on cellphones and tablets are non-gamers or casuals at best. Most core gamers wouldn't be caught dead playing Candy Crush Saga or any of the other crap on iOS/Android.
I think neither handheld is doing that great because Vita has too few AAA games and 3DS is weak hardware-wise, the dual screen gimmick is wearing thin, the 3D gimmick never really took off at all and although there's a lot more software on 3DS than Vita, it's still not enough, particularly from 3rd parties.
I think neither handheld is doing that great because Vita has too few AAA games and 3DS is weak hardware-wise, the dual screen gimmick is wearing thin, the 3D gimmick never really took off at all and although there's a lot more software on 3DS than Vita, it's still not enough, particularly from 3rd parties.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Like it or not, handheld gaming is being cannibalized by smartphones and tablets. People are becoming accustomed to bite-sized gaming at bite-sized prices and don't want to pay $40 per game. External controllers for phones are being better supported. A third party or independent developer has instant access to a market of hundreds of millions of people.
Dedicated handheld consoles are being pushed to a niche market because they are too expensive for what they do. There's only so much room in the back pockets of skinny jeans.
Anybody play 2048?
Dedicated handheld consoles are being pushed to a niche market because they are too expensive for what they do. There's only so much room in the back pockets of skinny jeans.
Anybody play 2048?
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I'm sure he/she meant non-resistive.
Few people want to fuck around with a stylus. Everyone, kids included, is used to capacitive touch screens on smartphones, tablets, ipod touches etc. and Nintendo needs to jump on that train.
entremet
Member
Yep. Same here.
I only got my Vita this Christmas and have been utterly amazed at the number and quality of games on it - and what a fantastic little technological marvel it is. It does depress me that it's done so badly, although at least there are enough games on it right now to last me a couple of years nevermind the stuff still in the pipeline.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I'm a firm believer that software sells all.
Prior to the Wii, who in their right mind would guess that a motion-control game like Wii Sports would become a pop-culture icon?
I think if Nintendo packed in a game with their next handheld/hybrid device that totally blows everyone by surprise, something that couldn't be imitated on smartphones, it could help to revive the market. Nintendo's done it twice, once with Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt in the midst of the video game crash; the other with Wii Sports. This company has a record of creating waves in the industry with their software, and I'm confident that if they simply pack-in their next handheld device with an innovative game (I know, I know, easier said than done), the sky's the limit.
Prior to the Wii, who in their right mind would guess that a motion-control game like Wii Sports would become a pop-culture icon?
I think if Nintendo packed in a game with their next handheld/hybrid device that totally blows everyone by surprise, something that couldn't be imitated on smartphones, it could help to revive the market. Nintendo's done it twice, once with Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt in the midst of the video game crash; the other with Wii Sports. This company has a record of creating waves in the industry with their software, and I'm confident that if they simply pack-in their next handheld device with an innovative game (I know, I know, easier said than done), the sky's the limit.
No, styluses are done for. Sorry. I know we continue to argue that they are better suited for games but the market has moved on.
That's really for them to figure out. Find whatever hardware configuration you can for $99 and sell that one. If it's a three year old iPod touch, that's what it should be. Not like Nintendo cares about specs.
GhostTrick
Banned
The 82% gen over gen contraction posted above says it all.
#20V1T4. I'll send you a branding guide.
Fuck me, I did not spend £60,000 marketing somebody else's product just to see my hashtags fucked up.
#20V1T4. I'll send you a branding guide.
I assumed the 3DS and Vita were doing roughly the same numbers as their predecessors, am I wrong in thinking this?
In any case, I'd like to see Nintendo merge their handheld and console platforms. Most people seemingly purchase Nintendo hardware for Nintendo games at this point, and they just don't have the resources to support two platforms properly. They could release 5" and 7" 1080p devices with the ability to transmit video to the TV, and sell them fairly cheaply.
Sony should just move their portable development to their phones, releasing a line with physical buttons. It would entice people to switch over from Samsung, HTC etc.
In any case, I'd like to see Nintendo merge their handheld and console platforms. Most people seemingly purchase Nintendo hardware for Nintendo games at this point, and they just don't have the resources to support two platforms properly. They could release 5" and 7" 1080p devices with the ability to transmit video to the TV, and sell them fairly cheaply.
Sony should just move their portable development to their phones, releasing a line with physical buttons. It would entice people to switch over from Samsung, HTC etc.
GhostTrick
Banned
SyaraSystem
Neo Member
Aren't they more expensive to add, though? I suppose capacitive screens are what's hot now and it might be possible from a backwards-compatibility standpoint, but they seem to run counter to the goal of a durable, inexpensive platform.
soxinthebox
Member
Surely it has to cost more to produce some shit outdated tech than it is to produce something 100% of all cell phones are currently using.
I'd tend to agree with Griss on this one.
Mind, 199.99 is the max amount the handheld can reach as launch price, it can't go over that, but it would also be the ideal price, because, going with Iwata's statements, it's going to be the first result of the post-unification and hardware team revolution occured at Nintendo in the past year (look for wsippel's post in the Nikkei's thread a little time ago), and it's going to be a "brother" of their next home, with games being shared between each other and NN being the real platform, device agnostic. It's also going to support many of the most recent indie/mobile developers-aimed tools (Unity), even more than Wii U. So, there's a good possibility of it showcasing Wii U graphics on a lower resolution screen (between 480p and 720p), and that sounds not fiesable with 99 as a launch price. It must also be considered how the platform can't be too underpowered, since it's the successor of the current main Japan platform, in the market where home consoles are going waaay down and Vita could be the last traditional Sony effort, in order to get as much games as possible.
But it's also that, by being at 99 at launch, they could have big sales in the short term, but those could not last too long, since the device is already at a very low price. Anticipating sales in the immediate, but renouncing to them in the long. It's a risk. Instead, at 199.99 as max (179.99 would be even better, but let's be more realistic), you can have a good launch, while possibly gaining something from sales, and then, when production is quick enough, you can start lowering the price / making bundles / etc. etc.
Of course, the platform will also need good titles from the start. Pokémon X2 / Y2 in common with 3DS? Zelda in common with Wii U? A brand new 3D Mario exclusive? Or two of those together (Pokémon + Zelda / Pokémon + Mario being the two possible possibilities, not Zelda + Mario)? I don't know, those were just suggestions, but they need good efforts at launch AND in the window launch, no droughts (which is...the main reason for the big changes just happened).
So... Pokemon?
who said resistive touch screens are outdated? just because they aren't on smart devices?
soxinthebox
Member
I said they were because that's my opinion
gigantor21
Member
Boss★Moogle;108630012 said:
What do you mean by "big" exactly?
The DS and PSP combined sold something like 220 million units. At the rate things are going, the Vita and 3DS will be lucky to see more than a third of that. And third parties outside of Japan have largely abandoned both devices in order to chase that smartphone/tablet market. Hell, even Capcom took their Monster Hunter money and dumped it into mobile development.
They don't have any vested interest in the dedicated handhelds space anymore.
oh ok. well your opinion is very limited.
HalcyonXcution
Neo Member
I would like to see the handheld market continue I mean we have portable smash now and the vita could make any ps3 game portable. I could only imagine what next gen handhelds could do but saying that means there will be a less of a chance for handhelds next gen :/
openrob
Member
Putting together sfacilitate ideas here already.
Nintendo knows what they are doing. Sony tried it but it just didn't take off like ninth.
I was surprised when everyone went ape shit over the 2DS reveal, but a cheap, rugged portable, being sold for $99 w/ Pokémon at some places is such a great idea.
The market will not look the same, but I can see both adapting. I am looking forward to what Nintendo will reveal next. Also see the trend of PS being a companion device. But seeing that more so with Nintendo, not just in hardware, but on software as well. Think more Pokémon stadium. Mobile games interacting with big home experiences. I mean from the days of probably GBA this is what we wanted from handhelds.
Nintendo saying that they will have a shared environment for their products kind of like brothers instead of separate product points to this.
PS tv / now will continue to facilitate having console experiences in other forms, like they have always tried to do, but in a more flexible way.
Nintendo knows what they are doing. Sony tried it but it just didn't take off like ninth.
I was surprised when everyone went ape shit over the 2DS reveal, but a cheap, rugged portable, being sold for $99 w/ Pokémon at some places is such a great idea.
The market will not look the same, but I can see both adapting. I am looking forward to what Nintendo will reveal next. Also see the trend of PS being a companion device. But seeing that more so with Nintendo, not just in hardware, but on software as well. Think more Pokémon stadium. Mobile games interacting with big home experiences. I mean from the days of probably GBA this is what we wanted from handhelds.
Nintendo saying that they will have a shared environment for their products kind of like brothers instead of separate product points to this.
PS tv / now will continue to facilitate having console experiences in other forms, like they have always tried to do, but in a more flexible way.
Nintendo should see smartphones/tablets as a chance, especially in the kids market. Yes, they will be way more widespread, Nintendo can't compete there, noone can with one single device. But those devices are not really seen as children-proof, as something that could take a beating. Also, many parents see smartphones as "costtrap", due to F2P and alike. If Nintendo could say" Hey parents, we have a durable device where you have complete control and Internet is safe", basically a toy without any hassles, I could see it doing well.
And of course, they should streamline the handheld/ home console architecture and create a shared online ecosystem. Nintendo wants to go there, starting with WiiU, but well, we are talking about what has to be done in the future.
And of course, they should streamline the handheld/ home console architecture and create a shared online ecosystem. Nintendo wants to go there, starting with WiiU, but well, we are talking about what has to be done in the future.
capacitive is older than resistive.
And neither of them obsolete the other. Just because Apple convinced people that cap screens are touch interface jesus, doesn't mean they're superior in every way. They have poorer accuracy and more latency. Resistive multitouch would be a far superior option, and it does exist, but not at the pricepoint for handheld.
And the vast, vast majority of multitouch functionality on multitouch capable devices is.. simulating the real buttons dedicated handhelds have.