I think building app platforms is a start. I think handhelds need more to entice people to just have it around. Pick a few things that they can do better than phones besides gaming (these could even be new software markets hinged on specialized hardware). Something to differentiate. I think the general contract phone's days are coming to an end so sometime soon it'll just be connected hardware and different hardware has different strengths and weaknesses. I think just gaming isn't super viable though, there's an expected baseline.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Where Do Dedicated Handhelds Go From Here?
- Thread starter Vanillalite
- Start date
Jorok Goldblade
Member
I could see a future handheld having at least one SKU that leverages a user's existing phone/Tablet instead of having its own screen.
I see the whole market of dedicated vs all-in one smart devices/smartphones leaving portable gaming stuck in a rock and a hard place.
I honestly don't understand why everybody suggests Ninty/Sony make a horrible hybird android game phone device. Neither company will have any control over there ecosystem, and Android device profits arent spectacular. The kind of games that have set precedant on these platforms are either F2P or significantly cheaper in price. (I would like some sales figures on higher priced iOS/Android titles though)
But at the same time the handheld market is contracting and bottoming out, dedicated devices have to compete on price now. Whats the other option, cheap £50 fisher price electronics?
The crux of the matter is smartphones and tablets have changed how many people view the value of games, because they can get it cheaper it demeans the value of more dedicated titles. On a tangent here but the whole f2p bollocks feels like a chicken and egg scenario, everybody bemoans how its fleecing consumers, devaluing ips and attracating attention away from real games but perhaps f2p gaming was born from the circumstances and expectations set by app stores. People expect cheap applications due to lack of implied physical ownership; people seem less willing to buy higher prices for download only software or titles.
Speaking to colleague and friends there reaction to the Vita and 3DS is a laugh and a response that they should just dump all those old game roms like 'pokemon and that final fantasy game I played in ma youff' onto the android app store.
It feels the value of content is significantly diminising, films, music, video games, people can illegally download or find at bottom dollar prices. Nintendo outside of its walled garden would be eaten alive as a 3rd party smartphone developer or platform holder.
Best we will get are Netflix style content services available on all smart devices.
I honestly don't understand why everybody suggests Ninty/Sony make a horrible hybird android game phone device. Neither company will have any control over there ecosystem, and Android device profits arent spectacular. The kind of games that have set precedant on these platforms are either F2P or significantly cheaper in price. (I would like some sales figures on higher priced iOS/Android titles though)
But at the same time the handheld market is contracting and bottoming out, dedicated devices have to compete on price now. Whats the other option, cheap £50 fisher price electronics?
The crux of the matter is smartphones and tablets have changed how many people view the value of games, because they can get it cheaper it demeans the value of more dedicated titles. On a tangent here but the whole f2p bollocks feels like a chicken and egg scenario, everybody bemoans how its fleecing consumers, devaluing ips and attracating attention away from real games but perhaps f2p gaming was born from the circumstances and expectations set by app stores. People expect cheap applications due to lack of implied physical ownership; people seem less willing to buy higher prices for download only software or titles.
Speaking to colleague and friends there reaction to the Vita and 3DS is a laugh and a response that they should just dump all those old game roms like 'pokemon and that final fantasy game I played in ma youff' onto the android app store.
It feels the value of content is significantly diminising, films, music, video games, people can illegally download or find at bottom dollar prices. Nintendo outside of its walled garden would be eaten alive as a 3rd party smartphone developer or platform holder.
Best we will get are Netflix style content services available on all smart devices.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
erm no. Vita will be lucky if its even sell a small fraction of its predecessor.
The best case scenario imo is Sony joining hands with Nintendo and make games for Nintendo's next gen handheld which has no region lock, uses SD card and have proper account and online system. Its a win-win situation for both.
To go back to the price issue, perhaps a decent idea if Nintendo has their 'platform' sussed by the time the next handheld launches is multiple SKUs. One that launches at $120 dollars for the kids and highly money conscious, and another at $250 or even a more limited release at $300 for their diehard fans. The better version of the console would have better specs and a better screen, and bigger internal storage.
This would also solve a marketing issue if they were to go with a $99 SKU only - games would look terrible on TV. With a more expensive SKU you'd have a better product to show off, even if 80% of your sales are of the cheaper device to the mass market who we know are not highly quality-sensitive in the handheld market.
Plus, I'd fucking love a premium Nintendo product, and would probably buy two.
So... a peripheral? I think the idea of Nintendo making a peripheral for phones / tablets that is required to run their games is a really interesting one considering Nintendo's history of 'out-there' peripherals. Ultimately, though, it's a horrible idea for a bunch of reasons.
This would also solve a marketing issue if they were to go with a $99 SKU only - games would look terrible on TV. With a more expensive SKU you'd have a better product to show off, even if 80% of your sales are of the cheaper device to the mass market who we know are not highly quality-sensitive in the handheld market.
Plus, I'd fucking love a premium Nintendo product, and would probably buy two.
So... a peripheral? I think the idea of Nintendo making a peripheral for phones / tablets that is required to run their games is a really interesting one considering Nintendo's history of 'out-there' peripherals. Ultimately, though, it's a horrible idea for a bunch of reasons.
TC McQueen
Member
I could see a microconsole/handheld strategy working for Nintendo, assuming they launch both versions at the same time in almost all markets. That way they can appeal to both the gamers who want the handheld catalog on their TVs and the people who are hardcore into the mobile experience handhelds provide. With the way tech is progressing, they could easily have a cheap microconsole that outputs 1080p and a solid 60+FPS frame rate if they wait like a year or two.
Risk Breaker
Member
Well, if Vita doesn't recover (jesus USA, you have awful taste 
), Sony leaves and Nintendo is left alone to release another mediocre platform, I surely won't own any dedicated handheld next gen
), Sony leaves and Nintendo is left alone to release another mediocre platform, I surely won't own any dedicated handheld next gen
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
As far as all this touch crap, I'd rather any future portables not have touch screens period.
I mean it's handy for inventory management and stuff like that, but I've never particularly enjoyed touch function in actual gameplay. Sure, the games built around touch are fine, but it ends up getting shoe horned in games that don't need it (Uncharted Golden Abyss being a prime example).
I'd rather a portable just have a nice screen, nice dual analogs, buttons and triggers and call it a day. But I'm one of those old fuddy duddy, just give me games with traditional controls or fuck off type of gamers. *shurgs*
I mean it's handy for inventory management and stuff like that, but I've never particularly enjoyed touch function in actual gameplay. Sure, the games built around touch are fine, but it ends up getting shoe horned in games that don't need it (Uncharted Golden Abyss being a prime example).
I'd rather a portable just have a nice screen, nice dual analogs, buttons and triggers and call it a day. But I'm one of those old fuddy duddy, just give me games with traditional controls or fuck off type of gamers. *shurgs*
Well, if Vita doesn't recover (jesus USA, you have awful taste
USA? You better say every country not named Japan if you want to go down that road.
I don't think being portable has ever really been a handheld's biggest strength. My Gameboy and NGPC never left the house, that's for sure.
I think handhelds lived as long as they did because they offered something distinct from home consoles. Experiences that were essentially relegated from the home console space found sanctuary on handhelds- the GBA sustained the 16-bit style games which probably wouldn't have been viable in the home console market of the time. To experience the entire range of gaming, you needed a home console and a handheld. They were essential.
With the advent of small-scale development and digital distribution, those experiences that became the preserve of the handheld are making their way back onto consoles and PC. I only see that process accelerating.
Basically, I think the distinction between handheld game and console game as eroding, and the handheld is competing with the home console/PC now rather than complementing them.
What can be done to make handhelds relevant again? A unified platform is about all I can think of.
I think handhelds lived as long as they did because they offered something distinct from home consoles. Experiences that were essentially relegated from the home console space found sanctuary on handhelds- the GBA sustained the 16-bit style games which probably wouldn't have been viable in the home console market of the time. To experience the entire range of gaming, you needed a home console and a handheld. They were essential.
With the advent of small-scale development and digital distribution, those experiences that became the preserve of the handheld are making their way back onto consoles and PC. I only see that process accelerating.
Basically, I think the distinction between handheld game and console game as eroding, and the handheld is competing with the home console/PC now rather than complementing them.
What can be done to make handhelds relevant again? A unified platform is about all I can think of.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Not a peripheral. It would have its own chipset. Think of the phone or tablet as the TV and the device as the console. There would still be a version with its own screen, but this would be an option to get a lower priced version on the market.
Plus, the pairing app that would connect the smart device to the console could allow players to manage friends lists and purchases, as well as perhaps play mini games that feed back to the main game on the go.
wanderjahr
Banned
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
PS4 $400, game $60, PSPlus Annual Subscription $30 comes to $490. Not quite the $270 you're talking about.
I agree with the anologue click buttons, forgot those. But no matter the price comparisons to full consoles alot of those who do buy the Vita or any dedicated handheld device do so because they want to play games on a handheld or on the go, so the price is often justified over paying for a different jack of all trades media device that doesn't do gaming particularly well vs dedicated devices.
Sony to drop handhelds and Nintendo to drop home consoles? I could see that happening with the caveat that the next Nintendo handheld is more of a hybrid, basically a 3DS (with more power and less 3D) with HDMI out. Maybe not HDMI out but tech similar to what's in the Wii U controller but reveresed, where you plug a sensor into the TV HDMI then you stream from the 4DS to that? I dunno.
licktheenvelope
Member
More japanese ports to my Vita please.
Nintendo will definitely be making another handheld, however it's very unlikely that Sony will be doing the same.
I think this could actually help Nintendo in Japan, as the current developers for 3DS and Vita are likely to continue making games on traditional devices, rather than moving on to Mobile, at least in the foreseeable future.
This means games that are aimed at more hardcore audiences would automatically move on to the 3DS successor, since there'd be nowhere else to go.
Given that, I think the next Nintendo handheld could actually do better in Japan than 3DS is doing.
Outside of Japan, costs have to stay low, but by 2015/2016, mobile parts will continue to get more economical, so Nintendo could release an efficient system that doesn't really cost more than 3DS does now.
Game prices would have to come back down to $30 max though, cause $40 is clearly not working for mainstream audiences.
I think this could actually help Nintendo in Japan, as the current developers for 3DS and Vita are likely to continue making games on traditional devices, rather than moving on to Mobile, at least in the foreseeable future.
This means games that are aimed at more hardcore audiences would automatically move on to the 3DS successor, since there'd be nowhere else to go.
Given that, I think the next Nintendo handheld could actually do better in Japan than 3DS is doing.
Outside of Japan, costs have to stay low, but by 2015/2016, mobile parts will continue to get more economical, so Nintendo could release an efficient system that doesn't really cost more than 3DS does now.
Game prices would have to come back down to $30 max though, cause $40 is clearly not working for mainstream audiences.
This would absolutely ruin mobile gaming. I hate iPhone games because they are built around the touchscreen. It's fine for simple puzzle and adventure games, but stuff like Gravity Rush or Super Mario 3D Land would be simplified to hell if they had to be playable entirely with a touchscreen.
I prefer physical buttons like everyone else here over touch controls, and id still pick a 200 dollar tablet over a 3DS or Vita.
The value is disproportionate between the dedicated handhelds and smartphones/tablets. You have to really be into handheld gaming to lean towards either 3DS or Vita, or just have enough disposable income to own smartphone + tablet + handheld.
I am not sure where to go, nothing is wrong with the games of 3DS or Vita, they play just as well as they ever had before. And you wont find a better game on IOS or Android than Link Between Worlds or Super Mario Land, but the value like i said is not there.
The value is disproportionate between the dedicated handhelds and smartphones/tablets. You have to really be into handheld gaming to lean towards either 3DS or Vita, or just have enough disposable income to own smartphone + tablet + handheld.
I am not sure where to go, nothing is wrong with the games of 3DS or Vita, they play just as well as they ever had before. And you wont find a better game on IOS or Android than Link Between Worlds or Super Mario Land, but the value like i said is not there.
LordOfChaos
Member
I don't know why this made me lol
A smart version of this, that could play the hit indie titles and worked well with Playstation Now would be pretty compelling I think. Imagine if some of your PS4 (and Vita) library just worked.
I mean, it wouldn't sell 80M units like the PSP did, but it would be an ok and profitable niche. And it would go a long way towards building a PS ecosystem.
randomengine
Banned
One thing to keep in mind is the unity Nintendo wants to accomplish between their handheld and their console. Look no further than this year's major happenings: GBA games on Wii U and Smash Bros. coming out for both systems.
If Smash is successful look for that to be the Nintendo template going forward. Now what does this mean? It means the next Legend of Zelda for Wii U will also come out for the 3DS. Say what? Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D land could not have done it since they began development much earlier than Smash, but we know that Wind Waker was practice for the Zelda team and the 3DS Zelda game is finished about the same time. So both of those teams can work on the next Zelda.
That is my bold prediction.
If Smash is successful look for that to be the Nintendo template going forward. Now what does this mean? It means the next Legend of Zelda for Wii U will also come out for the 3DS. Say what? Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D land could not have done it since they began development much earlier than Smash, but we know that Wind Waker was practice for the Zelda team and the 3DS Zelda game is finished about the same time. So both of those teams can work on the next Zelda.
That is my bold prediction.
ComaPrison
Banned
If you really think there's a mobile bubble, or that it's going to pop, you're way out of touch with the masses of mainstream casuals. There are more than enough people who aren't traditionally gamers, and aren't willing to pay the upfront cost of a dedicated gaming device with expensive software. They'll play a freemium mobile game until they cave into the nickel and diming, or buy the premium version of the game for a few bucks. Core gaming is in a race to the top, but the mass appeal casual gamer market is in a race to the lowest common denominator.
LordOfChaos
Member
Better specs is a bit of a fragmentation issue. I know Nintendo said they'd like their platforms to be more like iOS and Android, but then what happens if people get pissed off that certain high spec games only come out for the high end version? And it increases developer costs too.
IMO they need something GBA-ish, and launching very close to $100 with a couple of clear system sellers (GBA launched with Mario Kart, that's how you do it, Nintendo). They should NOT pursue a fancy-tech system with a huge screen that will make them bleed money, and they should not and will not launch a phone.
Natureboy99
Banned
I think the platform idea would work for Nintendo, where they offer a handheld or a console that share the exact same OS and library. They will always do well with the parent market too. Vita/PS3/PS4 already has cross-platform to a limited degree, and I think it's working. Vita is not blowing the doors off, but clearly its getting games and people are making money off it. I'm not sure Sony can do another one after Vita though. If VR picks up there is no good way to share or integrate a handheld with that.
You have to be kidding, I blame Vita's lack of exclusives for its terrible numbers. The port-platform approach doesn't make people buy systems, Vita is proving it. Nintendo handhelds get good sales when popular exclusives get released, I don't think Nintendo can afford to remove that factor.
Overall copying Vita seems like a terrible idea, it'd be like Sony copying WiiU for their next home system.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I honestly think both Sony and Nintendo should give up on the dedicated handheld scene, develop drivers for Android and ios, and create peripheral controllers (actual good ones), that can grip onto any sized phone or tablet.
Now selling software in the mobile cesspool is another story.
Now selling software in the mobile cesspool is another story.
Sony might quit the handheld space, but Nintendo's main systems have pretty much always been their handhelds. Imagine if Nintendo only had WiiU to survive these days, it'd be terrible. People don't seem to realize hardly anyone uses a controller to play phone or tablet games, it goes against what makes that market thrive - quick, uncomplicated, accessible games. I've never seen anyone carry a controller to play phone or tablet games, and that's not going to change.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Unfortunately it's not our problem to fix
The mobile scene is advancing far too quickly in my opinion for dedicated handhelds to exist. The market seems like it's massively in decline, and I just don't see the dedicated handhelds having a place in the future. Mobile is an abundant platform, there's only 2 real OS's to focus on, and touch gaming just isn't good enough, they need to find some way to get good hardware controls, and retain portability. I'm sure someone will crack the code.
Father_Brain
Banned
People would rather play boatloads of cheap/"free" games on the device they already carry around with them everywhere than spend $130-$200 for an additional device where $10 is a "cheap" price point for software.
Nintendo can't support two separate platforms concurrently anymore, and there's realistically very little they can do to woo back third parties on either the PS4/XB1 or iOS/Android ends of the market. It's a big risk, but I don't see a better option if they're staying in the hardware business.
I really don't think pretending Nintendo and Sony can compete with actual phones and tablets that people already own is a solution. They can't (in the case of Sony, it's not like their Xperia line is setting the world on fire in the first place). It's a market that IMO is completely out of their hands, and the only way they can somehow benefit from it is releasing their games on iOS/Android, which hurts the appeal of their own platforms.Unfortunately it's not our problem to fix
Mobile is an abundant platform, there's only 2 real OS's to focus on, and touch gaming just isn't good enough, they need to find some way to get good hardware controls, and retain portability. I'm sure someone will crack the code.
I think Nintendo would rather have another 3DS-ish selling platform, but this time planned to be profitable from day one, and with a much better understanding of digital distribution and pricing. I think this is what will happen next.
moltonasty
Member
Where do they go from here? To a museum/console heaven/history books.
Nah, I'm pretty sure Nintendo will do another one. Sony will not.
BoosterDuck
Banned
it's dead Jim
ChronotriggerJM
Member
But if we follow trends at all, I don't think Nintendo will have another 3DS-ish selling platform
I'm worried their next foray into the handheld gaming space will see another massive decline over it's predecessor, much like we're seeing with the DS -> 3DS. The only mobile platforms guaranteed to be relevant right now are Android and iOS.
I do agree with you, it's crappy, and it probably will hurt the brand. Unless they find a way to penetrate that market and succeed.
Sony's in a good spot with the main console being successful. It's a box that can live at home after all. But anything that needs to be mobile is getting slaughtered by the versatility of a mobile phone, not to mention the specs.
I'm not saying Nintendo and Sony need to make phones. I'm saying they need to target Android and iOS.
The DS > 3DS drop happened precisely because of mobile, that blow already happened. I think if Nintendo is smart they can indeed have another 3DS-ish platform - again, focusing on an affordable system, launching with the correct software and revamping their pricing strategy.But if we follow trends at all, I don't think Nintendo will have another 3DS-ish selling platform
The only mobile platforms guaranteed to be relevant right now are Android and iOS.
I do agree with you, it's crappy, and it probably will hurt the brand. Unless they find a way to penetrate that market and succeed.
Sony's in a good spot with the main console being successful. It's a box that can live at home after all. But anything that needs to be mobile is getting slaughtered by the versatility of a mobile phone, not to mention the specs.
I'm not saying Nintendo and Sony need to make phones. I'm saying they need to target Android and iOS.
I really don't see how moving to Android or iOS where they might or might not succeed, while effectively killing their own handheld division (Nintendo's strongest division by far) is a good idea, instead of trying to improve the situation of the market they excel at. Again, people WON'T buy controllers for their mobile devices, and Nintendo won't be able to sell $40 games on mobile (even though developing costs will increase having to focus on several ever-upgrading devices), plus not perceiving money from selling their own hardware (which they actually do).
In this case I can see Sony focusing on their own mobile devices, though, offering some kind of exclusive PlayStation service for their Xperia line.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
But if we follow trends at all, I don't think Nintendo will have another 3DS-ish selling platform
Well, that could change, or slow at least, if they get to a single or unified platform.
If you put all their first party offerings on 3DS and Wii U on one platform (along with the 3rd party stuff on 3DS) that's a hell of a library.
Split in two, both are a bit lacking--Wii U more so than 3DS.
So if they go the hybrid route and just have a portable that streams or docks to play on a TV, that could be very appealing.
Or if they make a console and portable on identical architecture other than power differences, so all can play every game (think PC low/mid settings on portable vs. mid/high on console) that would achieve the same thing.
@dmaul1114: That's the thing, I doubt there'll ever be hardware parity between Nintendo's handhelds and home consoles, which really makes the unified platform approach a bad idea in my opinion. And again, Nintendo handhelds usually build an exclusive, different library from the home consoles and that's what makes them appealing. That's how we got series that thrive on handhelds, like Pokémon.
I absolutely agree. Got my Vita month one for $300 and never regretted it. I was more talking about average consumers who price match a handheld with a PS4 or other console. You also added in PS+ under your PS4 purchases, you could add that into the vita as well and make it $320. Once the average person is over $300 for a vita I would argue that they would just come to the realization that the PS4 is only another $80 and they've got the top-o-the-line device. Or, like you said, they didn't want a vita in the first place.
OldKingDoran
Banned
Sony would probably stick to PS Now for tablets/mobile
Nintendo will most likely make a 3DS successor, not sure if they would make it 3D though.
Nintendo will most likely make a 3DS successor, not sure if they would make it 3D though.
Father_Brain
Banned
It's in the rear-view mirror and isn't an ongoing trend? Then what's with the year-over-year declines?