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Why did Sony Coat PS5's Heatsink with Silver?

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Why did Sony coat the heatsink with "Sliver"?

Liquid metal, like Gallium, could affect certain metals. So they coated it with silver just around the APU area IIRC:





What would Gallium do to Aluminium (aka aluminum)?





Sony's liquid metal cooling patent:


More into it:




Another intelligent solution from Mr. Yasuhiro Ootori and Sony.

EDIT: Know more about liquid cooling vs conventional paste:

 
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Kuranghi

Member
I bet you are disappointed its not gold, Bo.

For confused new users this is a picture of Bo_Hazem I took the other day:

eb702f20d21cf849bdb9d6a26340c39a.jpg
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
As expected they thought of everything possible to prevent issues with the liquid metal.

Pretty neat. Every PS5 is packed with Silver and Liquid Metal, sounds pretty neat. :messenger_sunglasses:

I bet you are disappointed its not gold, Bo.

For confused new users this is a picture of Bo_Hazem I took the other day:

eb702f20d21cf849bdb9d6a26340c39a.jpg

Fingers crossed for gold on PS5 Pro.:lollipop_tears_of_joy: But hey, you can always use gold-plated HDMI 2.1 wires.

H329180f0397a4632b819dd678e6bae20P.jpg
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Marketing has to give an argument to that sales person if they want them to sell that 200$ cable!

You don't need gold plated HDMI cables under 3m. For longer wires gold-plated cables do much better work at delivering the signal. So for most people, it's not important indeed.

This is great news! But can I sell the silver if need arises? The ads on TV say that Silver is a buy right now....

Hey, you think that's a joke? It's not! Here:

 
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Hmmmm, would love to see the cost of the exotic cooling solution on the PS5. Surely going from copper heatsinks and thermal paste the silver plated custom shaped heatsinks and Liquid Metal in an entirely new process isn't cheap.

That said, how does one go about replacing the LM if ones console starts to become noisy or some other unforseen issue arises? Is it a simple process like with replacing thermal paste on the old consoles? There is obviously far more risk this time around if that LM leaks on to the other components or MB but i'd be interested to see what the process is.

Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem you're probably the best person to ask about the above question.
 

Kuranghi

Member
Marketing has to give an argument to that sales person if they want them to sell that 200$ cable!

I'm totally gonna regret saying this but when I was a salesman I was filmed for an undercover "expose" of the shop (I'm sure you can guess which UK retailer) saying I had mislead customers about buying "gold" vs "silver quality HDMI cables.

They were something crazy like £60 each but I always got them 3 for that price and I was honest and said "You can get HDMI cables with this build quality, length and bandwidth on amazon for a few pounds cheaper but you can walk out with these ones now for a bit extra".

The expose had an "expert" that said there was no difference with any of the cables, and while I'd agree maybe it'd be fine if you are only watching 4K@24hz content but if you are gaming at 4K60 then it really does cause issues with blanking out during 4K60 + HDR + 10-bit and HDCP handshake stuff if you get cheapy ones. You can get lucky definitely, but I never seemed too.

The main problem is that it might say 18Gbps but it maybe isn't actually or if you try to put 4K60 with full chroma + HDR you'll run into issues even if it is 18Gbps because that requires 20Gbps.

I think a person that says that has never tried to set up a modern 4K TV + Sound System for gaming lol. I had to buy my flatmate like 4 different cables that from Amazon before we got one that didn't have blanking issues.

I can't find it now unfortunately, but it used to be on BBC iPlayer, I'll try and find it again later. My face is blurred and voice deepened in it but all the staff in the shop knew it was me and it was a good laugh for all of us.

Here is the UK retailer (you know the one) "trick":

Say you will take all the extras they want to sell you to get a bigger discount on the product, (obviously I don't mean deals that are dependent on each other, I just mean addon stuff they want to sell you, because if say a sound system reduces the price of the TV as part of a deal you'll have to pay back the money saved if you refund the sound system and keep the TV), the higher the sale price the more they can take off/will be willing to take off. If they offer you a monthly care plan/damage cover then just take it and incorporate the price of one month into what you'll be paying, you can cancel it via one phone call as you leave the shop and you'll just be charged for the first month. They used to be targetted on addons (Getting the extra rear speakers for a soundbar, or HDMI cables with a TV) but not its subscriptions (damage cover, broadband, gas & electric, etc) now so just take everything you can, increase your discount and then cancel them all that day.

After you get the deal then just walk to the front of the shop and refund the stuff you don't need and kept your discount. Do it in another branch if you feel bad, although thats fucking with the other shops bottom line.

It sounds stupid but its literally the business model they've chosen for themselves.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Hmmmm, would love to see the cost of the exotic cooling solution on the PS5. Surely going from copper heatsinks and thermal paste the silver plated custom shaped heatsinks and Liquid Metal in an entirely new process isn't cheap.

That said, how does one go about replacing the LM if ones console starts to become noisy or some other unforseen issue arises? Is it a simple process like with replacing thermal paste on the old consoles? There is obviously far more risk this time around if that LM leaks on to the other components or MB but i'd be interested to see what the process is.

Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem you're probably the best person to ask about the above question.

Silver coating won't add much cost, it's pretty much a a very thin layer probably around the APU area and where the liquid metal is applied. Now we need to know if Sony came up with its own liquid metal compound, and if it's patented or not. If it's using 3rd party liquid metal then that's good.

My speculation about how you change the LM is like this:

Wait for the console/heatsink to reach the temperature needed for the compound to solidify, then remove the heatsink:

vlcsnap-2020-10-07-16h56m30s245.png


Before removing the LM sealing/gasket, remove the LQ heating it up a little and use a syringe to suck it out, and a napkin for the rest.

Plastic-Feeding-Syringe-Catheter-Tip-50cc-100cc-200cc-300cc.jpg


Use a hairdryer to heat the new LM and use another syringe to apply it in the very middle then gently spread it evenly across the APU on an evenly balanced table. Try to cool the compound enough so it solidifies before putting the heatsink again.

vlcsnap-2020-10-07-16h56m40s343.png


And you're good to go. That's my speculation, not hard, but needs attention. If the bracket/gasket doesn't look good enough, probably replace it as well before reapplying it, and that piece should be provided by Sony directly which might tie you to fixing it in a certified Sony workshop.

Overall, I think you'll never need that, and it should last beyond next gen cycle.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
There was someone here who was positive you'd have to send your system in every 1-2 years to get serviced bc of the liquid metal :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Some had concerns, but Sony spent millions and 2 years of excessive experimentation with that liquid metal solution, patented their solution as well. So it's like the average guy applying it to you or some youtuber ;)

They went balls deep in cooling this time around, and it's a gorgeous piece of tech to learn from and observe.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
There was someone here who was positive you'd have to send your system in every 1-2 years to get serviced bc of the liquid metal :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Well to be fair that happens on PC for two main reasons:

- The actual top and expensive cooler uses Aluminium as main material... you should do a research before go to Liquid Metal.
- The liquid metal was not correct applied.

Most people uses the cooler they have (probably aluminium) and are trying the first time to use liquid metal... the combination is disastrous and can really destroy your system.

If you did everything right you won't need ever to reapply the liquid metal... unless you do a upgrade in the component that is using it.
 
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keraj37

Member
Some had concerns, but Sony spent millions and 2 years of excessive experimentation with that liquid metal solution, patented their solution as well. So it's like the average Joe applying it to you or some youtuber ;)

They went balls deep in cooling this time around, and it's a gorgeous piece of tech to learn from and observe.

Biden? Keep politics out of gaming forum, please.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
One last advice for consoles/PC: Don't make keeping the console/PC on save/idle mode a habit. My PC since 2002 is still functional today, same with my 2010 one. I have a new 2019 and I shut them down when done.

My 2016 PS4 Pro is extremely silent until now, my launch PS4 is still working perfectly with my friends and silent as well. Actually all PS4's I've seen around me here are silent it could be just we get them from a good assembly factory. I put my PS4 on idle when downloading a game when I had only 16Mbps ADSL. Other than that, I shut it down, and I've never cleaned neither of them.

Keeping the console/PC in constant working state will degrade things like thermal paste, at least, quicker.

Biden? Keep politics out of gaming forum, please.

Not sure if that has anything negative, but changed it into "average guy". I'm not American, so pardon me.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Does not Nickel plating also works? Silver could obviously can be too, however that "silver" on normal coolers most often means nickel plated. So. For fuck sake why my memory is so shitty....oh so copper does not oxidize. Noctua use it. Not sure if Nickel is not even more expensive nowadays tho.

Silver reflects heat better?, and cheaper than gold?
Reflect heat would be pretty shitty, you want it to just go through the material with lowest possible resistance.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Not gold? Preorder cancelled

Got you covered:

118a09_fef4f5d4b4124e9399197b5d7e2a4c40~mv2.webp



Does not Nickel plating also works? Silver could obviously can be too, however that "silver" on normal coolers most often means nickel plated. So. For fuck sake why my memory is so shitty....oh so copper does not oxidize. Noctua use it. Not sure if Nickel is not even more expensive nowadays tho.


Reflect heat would be pretty shitty, you want it to just go through the material with lowest possible resistance.

Not sure, really. Maybe to fight vampires while at it. :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
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Grinchy

Banned
Well to be fair that happens on PC for two main reasons:

- The actual top and expensive cooler uses Aluminium as main material... you should do a research before go to Liquid Metal.
- The liquid metal was not correct applied.

Most people uses the cooler they have (probably aluminium) and are tried the first time to use liquid metal... the combination is disastrous and can really destroy your system.

If you did everything right you won't need ever to reapply the liquid metal... unless you do a upgrade in the component that is using it.
Right, but what makes it so hilarious was that some random forum posters watched a liquid metal youtube video in 2018 and actually thought they were ahead of the engineers designing a multi-billion dollar product. It's so brazenly stupid that you can't help but laugh.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Right, but what makes it so hilarious was that some random forum posters watched a liquid metal youtube video in 2018 and actually thought they were ahead of the engineers designing a multi-billion dollar product. It's so brazenly stupid that you can't help but laugh.

Problem is, this is the first time we see a mass-produced HW packed with liquid metal, which is pretty massive! I can see many CPU/GPU get something similar in the near future, and see many 3rd party brackets/sealings for CPU and GPU dies for it.
 
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Problem is, this is the first time we see a mass-produced HW packed with liquid metal, which is pretty massive! I can see many CPU/GPU producers do something similar in the near future, and see many 3rd party brackets/sealings for CPU and GPU dies for it.
I could see it being used in laptops and products that aren't meant to be tampered with, but mainstream CPU/GPU's? Not really. It wouldn't make sense to.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I could see it being used in laptops and products that aren't meant to be tampered with, but mainstream CPU/GPU's? Not really. It wouldn't make sense to.

Probably laptops would do it first. But CPU/GPU's will punch above their weights with such cooling. I can see AMD's RDNA2 using it as well, according to the insane leaks of that 80CU card running at 2.4GHz!
 
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Probably laptops would do it first. But CPU/GPU's will punch above their weights with such cooling. I can see AMD's RDNA2 using it as well, according to the insane leaks of that 80CU card running at 2.4GHz!
Its been offered for several years now to those who are into deliding. There have even been silver plated heatsinks from 20 years ago. While it can work, it won't be mainstream as it doesn't make sense to. With dedicated cooling to the GPU and CPU, separately, there's no need to risk damaging an shorting out a PC, only to shave off a degree or two in temperatures. Its corrosive and highly conductive. A good air cooler or liquid cooler is a better solution, especially in the long run when it comes to desktops.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Its been offered for several years now to those who are into deliding. There have even been silver plated heatsinks from 20 years ago. While it can work, it won't be mainstream as it doesn't make sense to. With dedicated cooling to the GPU and CPU, separately, there's no need to risk damaging an shorting out a PC, only to shave off a degree or two in temperatures. Its corrosive and highly conductive. A good air cooler or liquid cooler is a better solution, especially in the long run when it comes to desktops.

Time will tell, I think most manufacturers will try to squeeze more from their dies. I'm really anticipating 28th and see what will be unveil about AMD's Big Navi and if it has any exotic cooling.

Damn Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem , save all the bobs and vegana for the rest of us peasants.

It's just comfy to wear and you see in the dark with all that shine. :messenger_sunglasses:
 
Does not Nickel plating also works? Silver could obviously can be too, however that "silver" on normal coolers most often means nickel plated. So. For fuck sake why my memory is so shitty....oh so copper does not oxidize. Noctua use it. Not sure if Nickel is not even more expensive nowadays tho.


Reflect heat would be pretty shitty, you want it to just go through the material with lowest possible resistance.
Silver has about the same thermal conductivity than copper. Nickel isn't great at all for this job and even worse than aluminium.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Silver has about the same thermal conductivity than copper. Nickel isn't great at all for this job and even worse than aluminium.
I read this and it's certainly not worse than Al:
 
Right, but what makes it so hilarious was that some random forum posters watched a liquid metal youtube video in 2018 and actually thought they were ahead of the engineers designing a multi-billion dollar product. It's so brazenly stupid that you can't help but laugh.

This consistently blows my mind about the tech threads here. And you just know those engineers, if they were to post here, would be incredibly humble about explaining their design rationale and would politely entertain all the stupidity.
 

Trimesh

Banned
Because Gallium is evil shit and you really want to avoid it coming into contact with anything it will amalgamate with. Unfortunately, that includes a lot of metals with good thermal conductivity like copper - so you have to plate a barrier layer onto the base metal. You don't want to end up like Nokia-Siemens with their active antenna units that were literally disintegrating because the gallium got out of the heatsink and destroyed the amplifier housing.
 
If ever there was a component to have genuine “concerns” over, this was probably it, so nice to see more about how they made it and that they’ve obviously thought about it’s long-term health; you’re not going to mass produce a console with an “exotic” part without figuring this kind of stuff out.
 
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