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Why do 3d fighter fans hate the Dead or Alive series
- Thread starter U5230
- Start date
Red Blaster
Member
Himuro said:
WTF? :lol
winter said:
my other favorite is the people who talk about how deap VF is, because they have heard that. I can promise you 99% of people DONT count frames in that game... but about 95% claim to. Yes, VF is insanely deep and almost no one takes advantage of that depth.
The other thing that gets me about it is Soul Caliber is just as much of a button masher as DOA.. but no one claims it lacks depth. Soul Caliber and DOA are both very easy games for anyone to pick up and play, but they both have alot going for them with depth too. They may not have the depth of VF but they have something it lacks.. approachability by your average gamer.
Note: I like VF ALOT better than DOA, but can actually admit to DOA being alot of fun.
Well my thoughts are.. That DOA's fighting system seems to run a tad bit slower then what Tekken and Soul Caliber do. However I like DOA, Soul Caliber and 2D fighters so my arguement is. What do you want more a fast paced combo heavy fighter like Tekken or a moderate-good paced fighter like tekken with great graphics, character design and more focus on grabbing, reversals and more detailed fighting with less comboing.
I like DOA but it's not exactly mrs. fast paced fighter like Tekken Or GGX. Though I hear that DOA4 is a bit better eh?
I like DOA but it's not exactly mrs. fast paced fighter like Tekken Or GGX. Though I hear that DOA4 is a bit better eh?
Tekken 5 is pretty fast and combo heavy which makes DOA3 seem quite slow however I can't say much on Ultimate since I have not played much of it as it most likely got a speed increase but what I remember is that DOA3 was pretty slow compared to Tekken 5. DOA3 has lots of yummy bits I that made me like it more then Tekken though.
Kabuki Waq
Member
much of the complaints started when the game became xbox exclusive.
the harcore players hate it cause of its simplicity and lack of emphasis on combos (memorization).
Tekken players hate on it cause of Itigaki.
the harcore players hate it cause of its simplicity and lack of emphasis on combos (memorization).
Tekken players hate on it cause of Itigaki.
I think it is more an Xbox thing.
DoA series was never pummelled by fans until DoA3 exploded on Xbox. DoA2 Dreamcast received a ton of love. It wasn't until the move to Xbox when the hate really begun.
You think things like this get them mad?
http://teamninja.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144194
DoA series was never pummelled by fans until DoA3 exploded on Xbox. DoA2 Dreamcast received a ton of love. It wasn't until the move to Xbox when the hate really begun.
You think things like this get them mad?
http://teamninja.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144194
Kabuki Waq said:
Oh yeah, I forgot that it was tooken away from PS2... Though the original was on saturn... or dreamcast right? Your definitly right on those points in which I never really thought of it like the whole Xbox thing but now that I think about it...
The PS2 fans that loved the series might have been pretty pissed to find it being tooken away from there system.
serious fighting game players seem to think that doa isn't worth playing seriously, and i can't agree or disagree -- i'm not a serious fighting game player. i suspect there are lots of poseurs on message boards who can talk frame counts and triple throw escapes but can't play for shit. and half the posts on any videogame message board are pure expressions of console preference that only resemble individual opinions on games. doa hate isn't hard to understand. i haven't followed the franchise that closely, but on my casual level of play i think it's good fun.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
It's known as the Xbox fighting game, that is all
This is all based off of DoA3 since I never bothered with DoA2:U
- Tracking is horrible
- Sidestepping is slow and clunky, and even less useful because of tracking
- Overly simplistic rock/paper/scissors counter system
- The fact that countering a simple jab can result in 20-30% of your health taken away makes it a turtle's paradise
- Tracking is horrible
- Sidestepping is slow and clunky, and even less useful because of tracking
- Overly simplistic rock/paper/scissors counter system
- The fact that countering a simple jab can result in 20-30% of your health taken away makes it a turtle's paradise
Kabuki Waq
Member
Hero said:
you can just grapple someone who tries to turtle and counter. TRacking is horrible but i think its pretty bad in the vf games as well. Tekken still has hte bst side stepping IMO.
A lot of it simply lies in the fact that the DoA games are easier to play. It may be shallow to say (which is kind of ironic), but the simple fact is that the easier a game is to play, the more shallow it's gameplay seems.
That is not to say there isn't more depth to, say, Virtua Fighter, but it is probably the most obvious reason for most players who aren't competitive.
I like DoA, mind you.
That is not to say there isn't more depth to, say, Virtua Fighter, but it is probably the most obvious reason for most players who aren't competitive.
I like DoA, mind you.
as a casual player, i think doa, vf, tekken, and sc are all more or less equally approachable, and i don't understand the popular belief that just picking vf up and playing it with your friends requires hours of study. i guess sc has simpler commands. i guess.
Phoenix
Member
Its a very 'simple' system and that turns off many of the hardcore. DoA has been button mashers paradise for some time now IMO. I also can't stand the rockem-sockem physics they apply to the damage - ESPECIALLY in DoA4. We're supposed to have all this power now, yet the characters do the herky jerky every time they get hit.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
I like 2dstuff, SoulCalibur, VF, and DoA, but usually stay away from Tekken or MK. I'm not sure why, but I never liked how they controlled. VF was sort of with them but I loved VF4.
KingJ2002
Member
I hated DOA because
- the big boobs gimmick.
- the simplicity of the fighting system
- bland looking characters
- counters that took almost half your life bars.
tournament level players see the series as a joke because it's a shallow fighting game. It doesnt matters if you learn entire move lists when inexact timing and a simple button press can make up for inexperience. It feels more like team ninja spent more time trying to get the boob bounce right than the fighting system... plus the arrogance from itagaki... tsk tsk tsk
Why I am excited about DOA 4
- New interactivity with the environment
- 4 way online tag fighting
- refined counter system
- deeper move list and fighting system
- focus more on the gameplay... less on the graphics.
doa always felt like an ambitious game that was never refined... but that could change with doa 4. I have to play it and see if the game took a step in the right direction... no matter how many new features they throw in... balance is key to fighters and if once character turns out to be too powerful you can break the game entirely.
- the big boobs gimmick.
- the simplicity of the fighting system
- bland looking characters
- counters that took almost half your life bars.
tournament level players see the series as a joke because it's a shallow fighting game. It doesnt matters if you learn entire move lists when inexact timing and a simple button press can make up for inexperience. It feels more like team ninja spent more time trying to get the boob bounce right than the fighting system... plus the arrogance from itagaki... tsk tsk tsk
Why I am excited about DOA 4
- New interactivity with the environment
- 4 way online tag fighting
- refined counter system
- deeper move list and fighting system
- focus more on the gameplay... less on the graphics.
doa always felt like an ambitious game that was never refined... but that could change with doa 4. I have to play it and see if the game took a step in the right direction... no matter how many new features they throw in... balance is key to fighters and if once character turns out to be too powerful you can break the game entirely.
karasu
Member
It can be really fun for like thirty minutes and then it just becomes kind of shallow. Knocking characters through skytscrapers and things like that don't really move me, and I'm really not looking forward to jumping over cars and leaopards. The moves are kind of bland, the styles are derivative lesser versions of every style found in practically every other fighting game out there. The music isn't very good. The counters are far too easy to pull off. The character designs are generic anime type stuff, etc etc. There's just nothing about it that makes me feel like I'm playing a serious fightng game. It's not totally terrible, but I don't think it's anything to write home about.
bumpkin
Member
I have no issues with Dead or Alive, myself. It's always been my alternative when I want to play a fighter that's different than what I normally play. Generally speaking, I'm a Tekken-ite who plays VF once in a while, but I definitely respect DoA for what it is; whether or not people will give it credit, the series has done things the others didn't get around to until later (elevations, multi-tiered levels, interactive backgrounds).
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
I don't like 3D fighters in general really. I might have to give DoA4 a try just because of XBL though.
KingJ2002
Member
inexact = huge open window for counters... as long as there is a nano second left in the animation you will still be able to counter... making people wait longer than they should to retaliate.
and because of the high reward from countering... it's actually worth it to just play a guessing game on which direction to counter. Depending on the character.... you only need to counter 3-5 times.
and because of the high reward from countering... it's actually worth it to just play a guessing game on which direction to counter. Depending on the character.... you only need to counter 3-5 times.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
bumpkin said:
Yeah, I'm going have to go with this answer for now, it's almost me to a tee.
evilromero
Member
I just bought DOA:U and I'm pretty excited about jumping into it. But I also picked up KoF: MI for PS2 and I'm leaning towards that at the moment. If there is one thing I appreciate in fighting games, or in KoF, is Mai. I guess that goes for DoA and Kasumi. All the wonderful hentai has spoiled me and made me lose sight of the games' original intent.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
evilromero said:
I pretty much know how you feel. I try to play DoA for more than ten minutes but than another joystick pops up.
i think people hate it cos it's not VF or Tekken...otherwise the others just dont care for it.
VF is the game everyone loves...and tekken is the game that everyone just hate...........or love, I know there're a few out there.
And I agree, Tekken fans hate it cos of itagaki...for me, I like doa for the boobies and the background...otherwise I'm a VF FAN!
VF is the game everyone loves...and tekken is the game that everyone just hate...........or love, I know there're a few out there.
And I agree, Tekken fans hate it cos of itagaki...for me, I like doa for the boobies and the background...otherwise I'm a VF FAN!
momolicious
Member
lol do you think anybody has really jaked off while playing DOA
Good going on creating this thread, Himuro. I'll have to buy you lunch next week... that is, if your mom will let you out of her basement.
As for DOA4... I'm personally really looking forward to it because of Xbox Live and the "deepened" fighting system that includes harder to pull off reversals. I want to invest the kind of time I usually reserve for Soul Calibur and VF into this shit.
Still, the little I've played of the game so far (I should go into the office now and pick up my copy... I'm tempted), I think the biggest frustration factor is basically what Milky writes in his review... that is, the game is fast and chaotic, which is essentially ammo for button mashing. It's really hard to read and remember what heigh level the moves will come out as without significant knowledge of each character. Plus, it seems the game stilll lacks tuning, as many powerful moves and their priorities are seemingly without checks and balances.
I want to give DOA4 the benefit of the doubt, and I will. I think most of my above complaints can be resolved if I just put some hardcore time into the game.
As for DOA4... I'm personally really looking forward to it because of Xbox Live and the "deepened" fighting system that includes harder to pull off reversals. I want to invest the kind of time I usually reserve for Soul Calibur and VF into this shit.
Still, the little I've played of the game so far (I should go into the office now and pick up my copy... I'm tempted), I think the biggest frustration factor is basically what Milky writes in his review... that is, the game is fast and chaotic, which is essentially ammo for button mashing. It's really hard to read and remember what heigh level the moves will come out as without significant knowledge of each character. Plus, it seems the game stilll lacks tuning, as many powerful moves and their priorities are seemingly without checks and balances.
I want to give DOA4 the benefit of the doubt, and I will. I think most of my above complaints can be resolved if I just put some hardcore time into the game.
i was playing DOA:U onlie for about 2 hrs last night, and i had the urge to come and make a very similar topic to this one.
DOA is fun.
no, its not perfect. the amount of time you get to pull off counters is way too big. counters do too much damage. the environments can unbalance things a bit. hopefully DOA4 fine tunes some of these issues (*get attacked by a cheetah*).
if i had to make a choice, id pick VF every time. but since i dont have to make that choice, i enjoy playing VF and DOA. (i get bored of SC pretty quickly and never enjoyed Tekken).
unless you have a good group of friends to play with, get online with DOA. lots o' fun.
DOA is fun.
no, its not perfect. the amount of time you get to pull off counters is way too big. counters do too much damage. the environments can unbalance things a bit. hopefully DOA4 fine tunes some of these issues (*get attacked by a cheetah*).
if i had to make a choice, id pick VF every time. but since i dont have to make that choice, i enjoy playing VF and DOA. (i get bored of SC pretty quickly and never enjoyed Tekken).
unless you have a good group of friends to play with, get online with DOA. lots o' fun.
Kabuki Waq said:
I take you never played the original DOA in the arcades, right? I flatout tell you this, but DOA along with Last Bronx was one of the worst piece of trash to ever be released on the Model 2 and simpily because the gameplay just lacking and it continued.
Speaking Last Bronix, thank god AM2 had nothing to do with it as I can't imagine thier name on gutter-trash like Last Bronx.
Fighting game fans can get as protective of "their" territory as console fanboys. Ever go to a Tekken or VF message board? They're filled with posts complaining about the "other" series. And both with complain about DoA. Soul Calibur... kinda mixed, some Tekken fans go for it since its still Namco... but anyway... you get the point.
I don't see why more people can't enjoy each different series for what it offers. I'm a fan of VF, Tekken, Soul Calibur, and DoA. They're all different, but all fun in their own ways. I'm sure I'm not the only one. But, those that like to hate on one or another cause it makes them look more hardcore on message boards are a lot louder than us.
I don't see why more people can't enjoy each different series for what it offers. I'm a fan of VF, Tekken, Soul Calibur, and DoA. They're all different, but all fun in their own ways. I'm sure I'm not the only one. But, those that like to hate on one or another cause it makes them look more hardcore on message boards are a lot louder than us.
Most hardcore players didn't flat out hate it but felt it was more of a fun party fighter than a serious competitive fighter because the counter windows were too large and even though a good player could still beat a shitty player (main from knowing what moves are good to use and what have too much recovery), luck and randomness played a high chance meaning the skill level wasn't very clearly defined.
Personally I enjoyed playing all of the DoA games against non-serious gamer friends. Against my best buddy whose a hardcore fighting game fan the game got old after a few weeks because why put a lot of effort into getting really good with a character if you'll still lose because of some counter doing insane damage and turning around the match.
That being said DoA4 having smaller windows has me extremely excited. Considering DoA evolved from the VF series (which I adore), I think with just the right improvements it can become as fun as the best VF and be an excellent fighter. I'm really hoping DoA4 pulls it off.
Fighters that me and my friend have really enjoyed competitively over the years (these games would easily get 3-6 months straight off playing 5-10 hours a week vs.):
--VF4, VF4: Evo
--SFIII -> Double Impact -> 3rd strike
--MvC2 (our guilty pleasure. Especially when it was released on DC at the same time as the arcade and every week the tiers were changing and we were learning new tactics. That kept it fun for about 6 months).
--SC, SCIII (mainly from character creation mode)
--KoF '98
--GGXX
Games that felt too shallow, got boring after a few weeks and shelved:
--Tekken 4/5 (5 was 100x better than 4 but we're just not big on the Tekken)
--DoA2/3/U
--SCII (felt too much like a SC upgrade. Not enough new to keep us interested)
--KoF '99/2000
--CvS1/2
--SvC
Hopefully DoA4 lands in the top group
Personally I enjoyed playing all of the DoA games against non-serious gamer friends. Against my best buddy whose a hardcore fighting game fan the game got old after a few weeks because why put a lot of effort into getting really good with a character if you'll still lose because of some counter doing insane damage and turning around the match.
That being said DoA4 having smaller windows has me extremely excited. Considering DoA evolved from the VF series (which I adore), I think with just the right improvements it can become as fun as the best VF and be an excellent fighter. I'm really hoping DoA4 pulls it off.
Fighters that me and my friend have really enjoyed competitively over the years (these games would easily get 3-6 months straight off playing 5-10 hours a week vs.):
--VF4, VF4: Evo
--SFIII -> Double Impact -> 3rd strike
--MvC2 (our guilty pleasure. Especially when it was released on DC at the same time as the arcade and every week the tiers were changing and we were learning new tactics. That kept it fun for about 6 months).
--SC, SCIII (mainly from character creation mode)
--KoF '98
--GGXX
Games that felt too shallow, got boring after a few weeks and shelved:
--Tekken 4/5 (5 was 100x better than 4 but we're just not big on the Tekken)
--DoA2/3/U
--SCII (felt too much like a SC upgrade. Not enough new to keep us interested)
--KoF '99/2000
--CvS1/2
--SvC
Hopefully DoA4 lands in the top group
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