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[Hero]

I also find the calculation for damage really weird. It has to be random or something.

It's fun to just to pick up and play mindlessly for a half hour or so, but it's no where near SC/MvC2. I'll even throw SSB:M in the mix too just to piss a few people off.

 

[Bebpo]

I also find the calculation for damage really weird. It has to be random or something.

Yeah, though I've never had a problem with the normal damage. But sometimes the environmental damage is insane. I remember knocking someone off the DoAU/4 bridge and the fall damage was like 80% of their life ^^;

 

[Sumasshu]

You think things like this get them mad?
http://teamninja.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144194

I know it's already been talked about when it was first posted, but this quote about Tekken is hilarious:

"I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which." I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs, so this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well. I don't think it even needs saying, but people should stay away from Tekken. Nothing left to say. I just don't want them to disappoint me any more. It's so annoying. Please don't annoy me any more."

This coming from the guy who made 17 versions of DOA2?

Yes, that is why I hate DOA. But seriously, I hated it because of the cheese in DOA2 -- super damaging and easy to pull off counters, and the ability to play it by randomly pressing different directions and mashing the attack buttons. They fixed a lot of it, but I played DOA2:HC for so long, despite its problems, that it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. Now even when I play DOA:U, the game has a feeling to it that makes me hate it. :\

But sometimes the environmental damage is insane. I remember knocking someone off the DoAU/4 bridge and the fall damage was like 80% of their life ^^;

I would complain about it, but because VF has been around for so long it doesn't seem as bad. Just think of it like a ring out in Virtua Fighter that doesn't make you automatically lose the match.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's known as the Xbox fighting game, that is all

It was known as a Xbox fighter when people were ripping it apart on the DC. It was hyped alot on that system because of how it looked and because of the backgrounds. Then the arcade version came out and that was pretty much the end of the hype.

 

[EmSeta]

It can be really fun for like thirty minutes and then it just becomes kind of shallow. Knocking characters through skytscrapers and things like that don't really move me, and I'm really not looking forward to jumping over cars and leaopards. The moves are kind of bland, the styles are derivative lesser versions of every style found in practically every other fighting game out there. The music isn't very good. The counters are far too easy to pull off. The character designs are generic anime type stuff, etc etc. There's just nothing about it that makes me feel like I'm playing a serious fightng game. It's not totally terrible, but I don't think it's anything to write home about.

QFT. Also, there's no real sense of force or power in the hits.

 

[DSN2K]

I find the gameplay shallow and unrewarding.

Ive been playing it since 2 on DC and have never liked the fight engine.

 

[The Faceless Master]

inexact = huge open window for counters... as long as there is a nano second left in the animation you will still be able to counter... making people wait longer than they should to retaliate.


and because of the high reward from countering... it's actually worth it to just play a guessing game on which direction to counter. Depending on the character.... you only need to counter 3-5 times.

WRONG

serious fighting game players almost never use counters, mainly because that means it's 30 frames of them being open for a 6-8 frame unbreakable throw that does 50% more damage than normal...

missed hold vs hayabusa = -120pts (half your bar)

 

[Demigod Mac]

OK, here's the gist of it. To me DOA is an enjoyable romp with a lot of flash, but not much substance. It's like a summer action movie of fighting games. Fun and energetic, but don't expect it to be very enlightening.

DOA certainly isn't as complex as Tekken, VF or SC. There's just limited options. In Tekken for example, you can "chicken" a counter to escape, but it requires a lot of skill. It does give you an option against someone who loves to counter. It's an option. In DOA, if you get countered, you're screwed. End of story.

It also has some other problems that typical "depth" arguments don't address. It's damn near impossible to side dodge attacks because of the game's auto tracking system. The ground game sucks: invincible players on the ground (except for the one stomping move)? Uh.... There's other things, of course, but those are my biggest pet peeves.

Bear in mind, DOA4 apparently fixes the vast majority of these problems (ground attacks yay!). So I'm looking forward to it.

 

[The Faceless Master]

OK, here's the gist of it. To me DOA is an enjoyable romp with a lot of flash, but not much substance. It's like a summer action movie of fighting games. Fun and energetic, but don't expect it to be very enlightening.

DOA certainly isn't as complex as Tekken, VF or SC. There's just limited options. In Tekken for example, you can "chicken" a counter to escape, but it requires a lot of skill. It does give you an option against someone who loves to counter. It's an option. In DOA, if you get countered, you're screwed. End of story.

It also has some other problems that typical "depth" arguments don't address. It's damn near impossible to side dodge attacks because of the game's auto tracking system. The ground game sucks: invincible players on the ground (except for the one stomping move)? Uh.... There's other things, of course, but those are my biggest pet peeves.

Bear in mind, DOA4 apparently fixes the vast majority of these problems (ground attacks yay!). So I'm looking forward to it.

well, first off, you see the bolded parts.. that's pretty self explanatory...

second, people almost never use chickenable counters in tekken precisely because their opponents chicken buffer their attacks... second part two, loves to counter = loves to get thrown...

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I'm applying a blanket statement, but I think it has merit. I like DOA mainly because it is online. People>CPU. With that said, I perfer VF to all other fighters, but I can appreciate DOA. I just find it odd people are using this as a *vs* to DOA4 when there is no mention of it coming to consoles no time soon. I'm seriously wondering if people care about that series or is it just another PS3/Xbox 360 train of thought underlying beneath the surface.

Myself personally, to back me up. I've posted about the Virtua Fighter franchise glowingly and I'll still continue to do so.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=1406884&postcount=60
http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=1407497&postcount=107
http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=1578348&postcount=45

However, while people are bickering on this, I'll be serving global asswhippings with Zack within 12 hours.

Just thought I'd chime this in.

 

[Gantz]

If you read Arcadia like most of the hardcore fighting game players around the world, maybe you'd understand what makes VF4 and most other fighting games beside DOA so deep.

Just because a magazine says so? Cripes :lol

I find the gameplay shallow and unrewarding.

This how I feel about VF4. The uneven broken gameplay, generic character designs, lackluster environments, and bland music. I don't know guys. That's enough to turn off any serious fighting game fan.

Simply put, DOA doesn't have the accomodating systems and gameplay to keep the hardcore crowd interested in learning how the game works. What they do have just isn't enough or isn't attractive enough. Games like Tekken, VF, and SC all have mechanics that take time to learn and utilize very precisely and that's part of the equation that keeps a game popular. I do enjoy playing DOA for fun but if I really want to sit down and learn a fighting game, the others just offer more.

Have you so called hardcore fighting gamers even sat down and learned the moves before dismissing DOA? I really doubt it.

 

[Shouta]

Simply put, DOA doesn't have the accomodating systems and gameplay to keep the hardcore crowd interested in learning how the game works. What they do have just isn't enough or isn't attractive enough. Games like Tekken, VF, and SC all have mechanics that take time to learn and utilize very precisely and that's part of the equation that keeps a game popular. I do enjoy playing DOA for fun but if I really want to sit down and learn a fighting game, the others just offer more.

 

[MarkMan]

This thread will fail. This argument is endless.

 

[Kseutron]

DOA2 was great for its time, and then...

DOA3 = DOA2.1

DOAU = DOA2.1 online

DOA4 = DOA2.5 with updated graphics...

I mean, I saw much more differences going from VF1 to VF2 than in the whole DOA series for the last 5 years...

 

[Fredrik]

The haters are fanboys, either gaming system fanboys, game developer fanboys or fighting game fanboys. That's it. And that's why we'll never get a good explanation on where all the hate comes from. Fanboys don't make sense. They talk a lot but they rarely make any sense. They're just defending their favorite game/developer/system and hate everything else, and that's it.

The reality is that DOA, VF, Tekken and Soul Calibur are all great 3D fighters. The review scores speak for themselves. Very few serious gaming websites/magazines/whatever has given any of these four fighting games a bad score. The only ones who hate the DOA games are the fanboys. It's really as simple as that.

And the reason why the DOA games get so much hate right now is of course because they're on Xbox, the least popular platform.

 

[Bob White]

From 1up's review of DOA 4

In most fighting games, a powerful move that takes a long time to activate but is blocked (or misses) usually suffers a significant penalty in that the player performing the move is staggered or delayed and open to counter-attack. Not in DOA4. Even the most powerful move can instantly be followed up with a blindingly fast punch or kick, making it a risky venture (when defending) to try and get a shot in, or drop your block to attempt a reversal. It's easy enough if you're playing a button-masher who's dialing in predictable combos, but when two (or more) people of higher and equal skill meet up it's more about who gains the momentum first

I mean, come on! I'm looking for reason to buy this yet, from what I'm hearing, it just ain't a real fighting game.

Ok, back to blind hate.

DOA is shit. Fuck DOA. Tekken 4 life!

 

[Synth]

I think this...

loves to counter = loves to get thrown...

...pretty much sums it up all up.

I honestly think what puts a lot of people off DOA games is that an awful lot of tactics people acquire from other fighters, simply don't work in DOA. This is turn leads them to believe that because they lost to someone they believe to be lower skilled (and in general, probably is..) its due to the game and not their lack of knowledge on what NOT to do.

I used to think DOA was super shallow as well. Played it for fun every now and then, but was fully convinced that I'd seen all the game had to offer.. up until playing DOA:U online that is...

 

[Inumaru]

Did anyone already say that DOA is not gay? But if you don't like bouncing huge titties, you must be. So don't be gay; love DOA.

 

[Red Blaster]

5 years ago, nobody cared about DoA.

 

[sprsk]

The uneven broken gameplay

are you fucking serious.

can you really be that stupid.

 

[Ronin]

5 years ago, nobody cared about DoA.

Damn true.

 

[jarrod]

I've always had a soft spot for fighters like DOA, Fighting Vipers, Last Bronx, Bloody Roar, Naruto, etc. The more accessible VF-clones, the better I think... in the DC days most of my friends wouldn't play VF3tb with me but everyone enjoyed DOA2.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Wait, VF is broken?

Then what the fuck is Tekken and ESPECIALLY DoA?

You're going to have to explain that one, Gantz.

 

[jarrod]

5 years ago, nobody cared about DoA.

Totally true. DOA hate might've started with DOA2/3 (arguable both ways), but so did DOA praise.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I can definitely see why someone who really got off on getting deeper into a fighting game would prefer VF4 after about 20 minutes of play of either. I always liked DOA because it was fun and fluid, but it sure got boring by the time Ultimate came out.

SCIII and Tekken might have better engines but since they have the charisma of dog shit, I don't know why most people would care.

 

[jedimike]

It's going to be great to see the DOA4 leaderboards... with all these claims about the series being an easy button masher, there should be no clear DOA leaders. I'm guessing that's not going to happen. There is going to be some kick ass players.

Like Che, I'm looking forward to devoting some time to DOA4. I've never put the time into a fighting game to get the most out of it so it will be a new experience for me.

 

[evil ways]

The characters are shitty and unappealing, at least for me.

 

[pancakesandsex]

Because its no virtua fighter 4 evo, and lets be honest, that makes all currently released 3d fighters look and play like crap in comparison.

 

[SaitoH]

I think it is more an Xbox thing.

DoA series was never pummelled by fans until DoA3 exploded on Xbox. DoA2 Dreamcast received a ton of love. It wasn't until the move to Xbox when the hate really begun.

I really enjoyed DOA 1 and 2, but was very disappointed with 3 and ultimate. Minor upgrades at best. Still bought em though. heh

DOA 4 sounds like it's an actual sequel, so I'm very interested in playing it.

 

[shantyman]

I have no issues with Dead or Alive, myself. It's always been my alternative when I want to play a fighter that's different than what I normally play. Generally speaking, I'm a Tekken-ite who plays VF once in a while, but I definitely respect DoA for what it is; whether or not people will give it credit, the series has done things the others didn't get around to until later (elevations, multi-tiered levels, interactive backgrounds).

I'm no DOA hater, but VF3 had elevation and interactive backgrounds first.

 

[Mooreberg]

but VF3 had elevation and interactive backgrounds first.

But Tecmo made the Model 2 board that... no wait...

 

[Prine]

because they're elitest idiots.

Give me DOA or Power Stone like fighter over VF or SC anyday (Tekken is pure shit)

 

[momolicious]

Does Itagaki hate Tekken because its competition and it tkaes away from DOA sales? I truly dont think he really hates it becuase its a crappy game or whatever. Anyways, how come he has to trash talk and be appreciative of other peoples work like all the other japanese developers like Kojima

 

[The Faceless Master]

and as for how picky fighting game players are, i've had discussions with fellow tekken players and also with vf players and they all basically want DOA to play more like their games... the VF players wanted vf-style multiple throw escapes, vf-style holds (and for characters to only have holds for certain attack levels, etc) and vf-like evasion, while tekken players wanted tekken tag style sidestepping, backdashing, holds, throw escapes and one person even went as far as to say he wanted jabs to float people more so he could do combos with 4-5 jabs in them like in some of the tekken combo vids...

yes, really...

 

[SolidSnakex]

Does Itagaki hate Tekken because its competition and it tkaes away from DOA sales? I truly dont think he really hates it becuase its a crappy game or whatever. Anyways, how come he has to trash talk and be appreciative of other peoples work like all the other japanese developers like Kojima

Some say its because NAMCO said something bad about DoA a long time ago (although no one can get a direct quote). Although I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with almost everytime he released a DoA before DoA3 it got absolutely destroyed in sales by a NAMCO fighting game (2 times by Tekkens).

 

[Gattsu25]

Tekken and VF should have more shortskirts, hot pants, and bouncing boobies


oh, and rhinos

 

[Stinkles]

The haters are fanboys, either gaming system fanboys, game developer fanboys or fighting game fanboys. That's it. And that's why we'll never get a good explanation on where all the hate comes from. Fanboys don't make sense. They talk a lot but they rarely make any sense. They're just defending their favorite game/developer/system and hate everything else, and that's it.

The reality is that DOA, VF, Tekken and Soul Calibur are all great 3D fighters. The review scores speak for themselves. Very few serious gaming websites/magazines/whatever has given any of these four fighting games a bad score. The only ones who hate the DOA games are the fanboys. It's really as simple as that.

And the reason why the DOA games get so much hate right now is of course because they're on Xbox, the least popular platform.

Thread over. Also, there ARE ground moves in DOA4, to the dude complaining about that in prior games above.

 

[Srider]

Just because a magazine says so? Cripes :lol



This how I feel about VF4. The uneven broken gameplay, generic character designs, lackluster environments, and bland music. I don't know guys. That's enough to turn off any serious fighting game fan.



Have you so called hardcore fighting gamers even sat down and learned the moves before dismissing DOA? I really doubt it.

Well, you really know nothing about fighting games. It's not because Arcadia says so, it's because every month it's filled with tons of strategies, mind games, techniques. Where as no such thing really exists for DoA. You can lol all you want, but all the things you said just makes it obvious that you are an ignorant wannabe.

 

[GeoramA]

I don't hate DOA, I just think it's the bottem of the barrel when it comes to 3D fighters

 

[sangreal]

Does Itagaki hate Tekken because its competition and it tkaes away from DOA sales? I truly dont think he really hates it becuase its a crappy game or whatever. Anyways, how come he has to trash talk and be appreciative of other peoples work like all the other japanese developers like Kojima

http://tokyopia.com/tk/archives/000116.php

Itagaki: Let me tell you the real story with that. Back when the original DOA came out, Namco aired a radio commercial -- they insulted my series. As the father of DOA, I will never forget an insult to my family. I will get them back with nuclear missiles more than 100 times for that. I will never forget it.

:lol

 

[trmas]

Because I could rent each iteration of the series so far, and come close to finishing it in one sitting just mashing buttons. It has no style, no challenge, and all the fighters basically fight the same way. Now, I haven't played DOA4 yet, and possibly never will, but that's okay. I no longer care to do so, unless it is to watch the gimmick graphics.

JMO.

 

[Gattsu25]

Because I could rent each iteration of the series so far, and come close to finishing it in one sitting just mashing buttons. It has no style, no challenge, and all the fighters basically fight the same way. Now, I haven't played DOA4 yet, and possibly never will, but that's okay. I no longer care to do so, unless it is to watch the gimmick graphics.

JMO.

Bullshit. Fighting against the AI to determine the worth of a series is the lamest fucking thing I've ever heard.


No offense

 

[Demigod Mac]

loves to counter = loves to get thrown...

It's this simple paper-rock-scissors system that hardcore fighter fans don't like.

 

[jett]

http://tokyopia.com/tk/archives/000116.php



:lol

I doubt that ever happened outside of Itagaki's mind. DoA was completely insignificant to Namco back then. Why would they waste their money on that?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Some say its because NAMCO said something bad about DoA a long time ago (although no one can get a direct quote). Although I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with almost everytime he released a DoA before DoA3 it got absolutely destroyed in sales by a NAMCO fighting game (2 times by Tekkens).

Namco ran radio adds dissing DOA

 

[VictimOfGrief]

So has it been said yet? Could the PS3 handle DoA 4? :lol

 

[karasu]

The haters are fanboys, either gaming system fanboys, game developer fanboys or fighting game fanboys. That's it. And that's why we'll never get a good explanation on where all the hate comes from. Fanboys don't make sense. They talk a lot but they rarely make any sense. They're just defending their favorite game/developer/system and hate everything else, and that's it.

The reality is that DOA, VF, Tekken and Soul Calibur are all great 3D fighters. The review scores speak for themselves. Very few serious gaming websites/magazines/whatever has given any of these four fighting games a bad score. The only ones who hate the DOA games are the fanboys. It's really as simple as that.

And the reason why the DOA games get so much hate right now is of course because they're on Xbox, the least popular platform.

Ah, any view different from your own is based on a deficency of some sort, and apparently the games are all equal just because none of them have gotten totally terribly scores from magazines. Despite the fact that critics are usually quick to point out that DOA isn't as serious a fighter as those from Sega or Namco. Nice.

 

[The Faceless Master]

So has it been said yet? Could the PS3 handle DoA 4? :lol

dunno if it could handle DOA4 *ONLINE*

 

[LittleTokyo]

I've always liked DOA just fine. In fact, I prefer it over Tekken. VF is a series I've never played at length, but I'm kind of intimidated by what I've heard about it.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

dunno if it could handle DOA4 *ONLINE*

:lol