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[Stinkles]

Because I could rent each iteration of the series so far, and come close to finishing it in one sitting just mashing buttons. It has no style, no challenge, and all the fighters basically fight the same way. Now, I haven't played DOA4 yet, and possibly never will, but that's okay. I no longer care to do so, unless it is to watch the gimmick graphics.

JMO.

This is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read. Is anyone out there still struggling to complete VF or Tekken? Add to that the refusal to play the game to find out if it's good or not. Oh jesus, why am I even replying to this?

 

[genjiZERO]

I hate on DOA because I find the gameplay way too unrefined, it plays like VF for beginners. Yeah it's a fun game, but it doesn't provide the precision and sophistication of VF or Tekken.

 

[Orin GA]

I remember playing it on the Dreamcast. Any game where i can button smash my way to victory doesnt make a blip on my radar.

 

[Brandon F]

I've always enjoyed the niche DOA carves itself into the genre, it doesn't go for the encompassing 'be-all-end-all' of fighting games, nor does it deserve to. It instead delivers wondefully choreographed combat with a penchant for mindgame hilarity with it's overpowering defensive reversals. It's always been a crowd pleaser among my non-gamer friends as well as the hardcore circle.

But then again we never get complaints loading up Tekken or SC or VF either. They all deliver their own brand of satisfaction.

 

[jarrod]

Any game where i can button smash my way to victory doesnt make a blip on my radar.

There goes Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur and Tekken then.

 

[Anyanka]

"you can button mash and win" is like the standard hate for whatever 3D fighting series you happen to dislike.

 

[trmas]

Sorry, I like good AI in my fighting games. DOA doesn't have it, with the possible exception of DOA4, which I haven't played. VF definately has it, and Tekken and SC do as well to a lesser extent.

 

[SomeDude]

so far i like vf the best, but I'm gonna give DoA4 a chance since I like team ninja's Ninja Gaiden series so well.

 

[chespace]

Sorry, I like good AI in my fighting games. DOA doesn't have it, with the possible exception of DOA4, which I haven't played. VF definately has it, and Tekken and SC do as well to a lesser extent.

A MUCH LESSER extent.

 

[Fredrik]

Ah, any view different from your own is based on a deficency of some sort

Well the fanboys who hate everything that don't play just like their favorite game aren't thinking straight anyway. These type of critics are all missing the point that for example the VF games are completely different from the DOA games gameplaywise, and the same goes for Tekken and Soul Calibur etc. And they're missing the point that comparing all the fighting games to each other would be like comparing Forza to Ridge Racer and Burnout and Wipeout etc. Kind of. And it's just not a very smart thing to do.

The thing is that the fighting game that you like the most isn't neccesarily the best game, it just happen to have the gameplay and content etc that you like the most. If you're a big fan of the VF games then you'll most likely want every fighting game to play exactly the same. And then a game like DOA comes a long, and it's nothing like the VF games, everything is just... off... in some way... it's too easy to do the moves and doing fancy combos and the counter moves are to easy to pull off and they cause to much damage etc and you can't do this and that and it's... "just not as good as VF". But what you're really thinking is that "it just don't play like the VF games. And therefore YOU don't think it's as good. Because YOU like the gameplay in the VF games more than the gameplay in the DOA games."

And that's it. It's all about the gameplay and your personal taste in gameplay. All the four 3D fighters mentioned are now pretty much perfection when it comes to the specific gameplay type they're going for. They can enhance the certain key features that people love (or hate) but there are only minor little details in the main gameplay mechanics that can be changed before the gameplay that people love (or hate) are affected and they'll have to start finding new fans.

 

[slade]

5 years ago, nobody cared about DoA.

The only right answer. Before DOA3, this series was going the way of Bloody Roar and Toshinden. It was only when it became exclusive to Xbox that it gained a fanbase willing to defend it and that had a lot more to do with fanboyism then people who hate on the series.

 

[Eel O'Brian]

whoops wrong thread nevermind move along nothing to see here

 

[karasu]

The thing is that the fighting game that you like the most isn't neccesarily the best game, it just happen to have the gameplay and content etc that you like the most. If you're a big fan of the VF games then you'll most likely want every fighting game to play exactly the same. And then a game like DOA comes a long, and it's nothing like the VF games, everything is just... off... in some way... it's too easy to do the moves and doing fancy combos and the counter moves are to easy to pull off and they cause to much damage etc and you can't do this and that and it's... "just not as good as VF". But what you're really thinking is that "it just don't play like the VF games. And therefore YOU don't think it's as good. Because YOU like the gameplay in the VF games more than the gameplay in the DOA games."

That's far too simple of a view. You're essentially saying that there are no serious problems with the games, but only with the players views. Plus, as a Virtua Fighter fan I dont want every game to play like Virtua Fighter, that's absurd. If that were true I wouldn't enjoy Tekken, or King of Fighters, or Soul Calibur, etc etc. When DOA came out I felt it was very similar to Virtua Fighter on the surface. Both in the styles the characters used, and the control scheme. Tekken is what was nothing like Virtua Fighter, neither was Toshinden, etc etc.

All the four 3D fighters mentioned are now pretty much perfection when it comes to the specific gameplay type they're going for. They can enhance the certain key features that people love (or hate) but there are only minor little details in the main gameplay mechanics that can be changed before the gameplay that people love (or hate) are affected and they'll have to start finding new fans.

Yeah right. They've supposedly added more depth to DOA in part four. That kills your theory.

 

[sprsk]

That's far too simple of a view. You're essentially saying that there are no serious problems with the games, but only with the players views. Plus, as a Virtua Fighter fan I dont want every game to play like Virtua Fighter, that's absurd. If that were true I wouldn't enjoy Tekken, or King of Fighters, or Soul Calibur, etc etc. When DOA came out I felt it was very similar to Virtua Fighter on the surface. Both in the styles the characters used, and the control scheme. Tekken is what was nothing like Virtua Fighter, neither was Toshinden, etc etc.




Yeah right. They've supposedly added more depth to DOA in part four. That kills your theory.

added more depth, they know this from playing it.......2 days.

 

[iced lightning]

I've just never liked the fighting engine. Tekken and Virtua Fighter have great, dinstinct engines, while DOA's just plays like crap. It probably doesn't help that so much emphasis is put on the titties and "cutting edge graphics." I can look past that, though, but something about the engine really turns me off.

 

[chespace]

That's the best analogy in regards to fighting game preference I've ever seen. GJ.

Told ya, 3 pages.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Told ya, 3 pages.

Che ~ Have you played it yet? I'm on hour 16 of gameplay and this game OWNS. Your weekend will be far to short if you get a copy to take home.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Well I saw this at an Xbox3DO kiosk when I went to pick up my PSP, and I decided to dick around with it while the line shrunk.

Same shit, different DOA.

Really. All the same tactics for owning with Bayman still worked against the CPU, but my rocking was crippled due to the shitty game pad. Don't take it personal Xbots - I don't play fighters with pads, like Dracula doesn't drink wine.

I dunno. I guess if it were the only game I had to play, it might be worth defending, but I've got SC3 and VF4. Oh and that SF3 game.

 

[littlewig]

DOA would be a dead franchise if it wasn't on the Xbox, for this I am thankful for MS.

 

[chespace]

Che ~ Have you played it yet? I'm on hour 16 of gameplay and this game OWNS. Your weekend will be far to short if you get a copy to take home.

about to go pick mine up from the office.

good times in 2006.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I think DoA4, if nothing else, may finally begin to stretch the credibility of the "haters". And by haters, I mean the silly ones who really do act like stereotypical fanboys. No matter what you say about DoA, part 4 -does- clean up the gameplay a fair bit from what I have played so far in the last 24 hours and what other experts have recounted to me.

But the majority of the hate the series has recieved pretty much seems to boil down to a tricky mix of legitimate technical gripes (loose counters, ground game, etc) and stylistic prejudices (the lady's boobies scare me mommy, waah, waah, ;_ Even the more intelligent critics who have trashed the game religiously too often seem to combine real points with fannish prejudices over taste and style.

Oh well. Bring the DoA4!

 

[Fredrik]

That's far too simple of a view. You're essentially saying that there are no serious problems with the games, but only with the players views.

Well at this point that's basically what I think, I don't think any of the four fighting games mentioned has any serious flaws, only minor flaws that could have made an already great game even better. They're very different though, but that doesn't mean that one is a whole lot better than the others, they're just different regarding the gameplay. Personally I'm more of a Tekken fan than a VF fan, but I still think the VF games are great, I just don't like the gameplay as much as in the Tekken games.

Plus, as a Virtua Fighter fan I dont want every game to play like Virtua Fighter, that's absurd. If that were true I wouldn't enjoy Tekken, or King of Fighters, or Soul Calibur, etc etc.

Well then you're no fanboy, my ramlings above is not about you then, you can still play and enjoy other fighting games even though they're different, that's the way it should be.

But still, if you would dislike the DOA games to the degree that you'd think they're crap like the fanboys do then it would be because you don't like that type of gameplay in fighting games. As long as you're not a system or game developer fanboy.
It may sound like I'm simplifying everything by just talking about fanboys, but I don't think I am, I think it's exactly that way it works. And if you think about it, do you think a game that actually IS crap would get 9/10 in reviews everywhere and have tons of fans who absolutely love these games? Of course not. Crappy games get crappy review scores and have very few fans.

Yeah right. They've supposedly added more depth to DOA in part four. That kills your theory.

No it don't, it's still the same game, from what I've heard they have only fine tuned the fighting system a bit. It's still the same DOA with all the features intact that some like and some hate. And from what I've heard it's more perfect than ever before. If you like that type of gameplay that is.

 

[Gattsu25]

Brandon, the problem is that you are having a difficult time accepting opinions that differ from your own. You simplify the situation by grouping all the people you strongly disagree with into a category that you can easily disregard. Your view on this "debate" (and I use that word loosely [talking about the entire thread, here]) verges on ad hominem.

Or does it?

 

[renvi]

maybe, this is why?

http://sylphys.ddo.jp/upld2nd/game2/src/1135845863995.jpg
http://3d.skr.jp/3d/src/1135795460008.jpg

 

[Last Hope]

People say that it is a button mashing game. But I think they just like me don't know how to play it so that is why they resort to button mashing. The only fighting game I do know how to play is Street Fighter 2 and that is because every character uses the same key combonations to initiate the moves. Not with DOA. There are no special moves, just combos that work to hit the opponent many times and take a lot of health away.

 

[Mr. Rellik]

Just because a magazine says so? Cripes :lol



This how I feel about VF4. The uneven broken gameplay, generic character designs, lackluster environments, and bland music. I don't know guys. That's enough to turn off any serious fighting game fan.



Have you so called hardcore fighting gamers even sat down and learned the moves before dismissing DOA? I really doubt it.

You sir have no idea what you're talking about. What broken gameplay? The game is the most balanced of all fighters. What turns off serious fighting game fans to Hentai fighter is the lame counters being to easy to do, a quick low poke setting up a guessing game of " counter or get juggled", and the lack of skill it takes to do these moves.

DOA is just rock paper scissors with graphics.

 

[Yamauchi]

I don't hate it. I just find it to be an incredibly dull, poorly-made fighter.

 

[slade]

DOA is just rock paper scissors with graphics.

To be fair, just about every fighting game is that. In terms of offense and priority between moves, it almost always boils down to the rock, paper, scissors scenario.

 

[Mr. Rellik]

To be fair, just about every fighting game is that. In terms of offense and priority between moves, it almost always boils down to the rock, paper, scissors scenario.

Not true. Other games require more positioning and setup and skill to do the elite level combos. Nothing about DOA is hard.

 

[maximum360]

I've just never liked the fighting engine. Tekken and Virtua Fighter have great, dinstinct engines, while DOA's just plays like crap. It probably doesn't help that so much emphasis is put on the titties and "cutting edge graphics." I can look past that, though, but something about the engine really turns me off.

Oh man. I'm sorry. I didn't play the last VF (so I can't comment on it) but Tekken has always been mediocre at best. There's no greater button masher/air juggler than Tekken. It's a shame that Namco can do the fighting genre justice with the Soul Calibur series but still Tekken has barely evolved since it's exception.

I'm no DOA fanboy but DOA2 and 3 craps all over the Tekken series. All IMO ofcourse.

 

[Gantz]

Not true. Other games require more positioning and setup and skill to do the elite level combos. Nothing about DOA is hard.

Having to perform complex key combonations to accomplish simplistic moves in VF4 is backwards logic sorry :lol

 

[Haklong]

How can you say something like this when you don't even know how much we have played DOA.

Have you so called hardcore fighting gamers even sat down and learned the moves before dismissing DOA? I really doubt it.

Then say this about VF4?

Having to perform complex key combonations to accomplish simplistic moves in VF4 is backwards logic sorry :lol

You are the one that hasn't played VF4 past a few button presses, not us that actually play DOA and think it's good, just not at the level of VF4 or SC.

 

[Mr. Rellik]

Having to perform complex key combonations to accomplish simplistic moves in VF4 is backwards logic sorry :lol

Example please???? Ok then, stop posting stupid shit...

Having the same level of difficulty for the most effective moves as you do for the less effective moves means you can spam the effective moves over and over again. Maybe DOA4 will give the more damaging moves some recovery time. Those in previous DOAs were way too easy. Ein anyone?

 

[Gantz]

How can you say something like this when you don't even know how much we have played DOA.



Then say this about VF4?



You are the one that hasn't played VF4 past a few button presses, not us that actually play DOA and think it's good, just not at the level of VF4 or SC.

I can tell from all the VF fanboy posts. Most haven't played DOA more than few key presses. Poke poke, ok I'm done and dismiss it :lol. I own VF4 Evo greatest hits and have beaten and unlocked everything. I play, learn, and beat every major fighting game, no matter how simplistic or complex the moves may be so I think I have good credibility.

 

[blackadde]

to the best of my knowledge there is no major doa scene in either america or japan (doa was absent from every evolution and super battle opera).

'beating' a fighting game does not qualify you to discuss top level play. nor does memorizing move lists, since any monkey with a couple hours to spare could do the same.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Uh Gantz, you're pretty full of shit. One part of the "depth" (really annoying term) of VF4 comes from the fact that there AREN'T complex button sequences and canned combos. Combos and juggles are all done by mixing together individual moves, not memorizing complex strings of button sequences. To add injury to insult, *most* VF4 moves aren't anything more than a direction on the stick and a combination of punch/kick/guard.

What "complex key combinations" are you talking about?

 

[slade]

Not true. Other games require more positioning and setup and skill to do the elite level combos. Nothing about DOA is hard.

Positioning and setup can only get you so far but even they can't help if the other person's move has more priority then the one you just pulled off. In the end, the basic rock paper scissor setup runs through most fighters. The big skill here lies in the ability to read the game itself and see which move is coming next. Basically, counting frames.

 

[Oichi]

Most people hate DOA because they hate boobies

jokes.

I don't see why people think countering in DOA is cheap when you have stupid bullshit that's just as bad or even worse in Soul Calibur and Tekken. All three games have a certain degree of BS that you have to put up with.

 

[Mr. Rellik]

Positioning and setup can only get you so far but even they can't help if the other person's move has more priority then the one you just pulled off. In the end, the basic rock paper scissor setup runs through most fighters. The big skill here lies in the ability to read the game itself and see which move is coming next. Basically, counting frames.

Yeah there's always guessing in games but what doa lacks is awarding blocking a damaging move. The game has been a move priority spam fest. Staggers off of a quick low poke = crap.

Counting frames is knowing how fast a move executes and is used mainly to punish recovery or beat other attacks out before said attack executes (good priority or not) not to read the game and see which move is coming next; that is called anticipation, which comes from noticing patters in your opponent's style.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Most people hate DOA because they hate boobies

jokes.

I don't see why people think countering in DOA is cheap when you have stupid bullshit that's just as bad or even worse in Soul Calibur and Tekken. All three games have a certain degree of BS that you have to put up with.

you mean bullshit standing 4, JFLS, u/f+1, etc?

i just wanted to name a few notorious ones, didnt wanna make a list...

anyway, i invite anyone who thinks mashing is the way to victory to play DrDogg (or me if you want a better chance of winning...)

 

[Fredrik]

Brandon, the problem is that you are having a difficult time accepting opinions that differ from your own. You simplify the situation by grouping all the people you strongly disagree with into a category that you can easily disregard. Your view on this "debate" (and I use that word loosely [talking about the entire thread, here]) verges on ad hominem.

Or does it?

Nah, I'm just saying that if you strongly dislike a game that gets great scores in magazines and have tons of fans, then it is infact because you just don't happen to like that type of gameplay. And that goes for all the games that get great scores and have lots of fans, not just fighting games. I mean, why would crappy games get high scores and have lots of fans?

Are the Ridge Racer games crappy racing games compared to Forza? No. They're just different. But if YOU want ultra realistic racing then YOU obviously think the Ridge Racer games aren't as great as Forza. But that's just because you prefer the Forza gameplay in racing games.

The same goes for fighting games. All the four fighting games we've talked about here have certain things in their gameplay mechanics that separate them from the rest and that make the fans like them.
Most hardcore fighting game fans simplify everything and say that only the VF type of fighting games are great, the rest are crappy and has shallow gameplay or whatever. I'm sorry but that's just plain stupid. It's all a matter of what type of gameplay you prefer. Just as in racing games. You can't say that the Burnout games are crap and Forza is awesome just because Forza has more depth in it's gameplay. It all depends on what type of gameplay you're looking for.

But whatever, you all know my take on this now. The hate comes from fanboys. And all the fighting games are great. If you don't like a certain game it's just because you don't like that type of gameplay. The game itself isn't crap. Crappy games don't have fans and don't get great scores in reviews. etc etc etc

 

[suupabuu]

The term "button masher" is by far the stupidest phrase in all of gaming. You can button mash on any game. You'd still get beat by anyone who knows the way around the game. Goes for SF3, Tekken, DOA, SCIII, anything.

Lemme tell you why I prefer Tekken, SCIII over DOA (ultimate is the furthest I have played)

You have to get an overall feel of what you are playing before you can judge it. To me, the game simply lacks depth. I've been playing it on DC and XBOX, I have YET to prefer it over Tekken.

I don't know if they fixed it, but what i've played with DOA:U, the counter system is still broken to shit. I've heard they fixed the damage, that's good. But if they have the same style of gameplay concerning countering and combo's (as someone else put it perfectly, "rock paper siscors"), they are going down the same dirty road.

They also need to fix the style of player's taking attack's. Again, I don't know if they kept this in DOA4, but countering out of the "pseudo combo's" needs to go. Some know what I mean.

Now for the rest explaining depth.. This is why tournament player's like Tekken, SC3, VF4 etc over DOA.. it's basically a more solid game. Trust me, any tournament player of 3D fighter's will say the same thing, and defenantly prefer the 3 over DOA. It's hard to explain how it's solid, but I'll try.

DOA does not have the level of priority of attack's that Tekken has. There is more room to act on your character's attacks (which leads to better mind games). With the Tekken movelist, they have varying level of attacks that have low to high priority, with varying distance. Combine it with a game speed that suit's it. It gives you more options to act based on what you've done, and what the character has done. You have the same "feel" in this part that SC2 and VF4 (which is the most solid btw) has. God, I can't explain it but people know exactly what im talking about.

People have their preferences over games. When you are comparing depth, some things are on top of another. Remember Kakuto Chojin? I played it a bit. A lot worse in the priority+movelist+speed department. That's why it's garbage. It's like from VF4 to DOA (DOA to Kakuto). Then you go from Kakuto to Kabuki Warriors. More garbage on the pile. More reduction in depth.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

'beating' a fighting game does not qualify you to discuss top level play. nor does memorizing move lists, since any monkey with a couple hours to spare could do the same.

And thus the argument ends. The same can be said of any fighting game. And really the key to any fighting game is positioning and reading your opponent.

Reading threads like this makes me want to cry. Seriously. People need to get off their high horses when it comes to this shit.

Hey, why do 2d fighting game fans hate on Karate Champ from back in the day? Gimme a break.

 

[Hitokage]

Regarding Gantz "beating" VF4e, I have to ask:

Arcade or Quest?

 

[lexy]

I know it will never happen, but I really wish they would make an all male DOA game.

 

[Gantz]

Uh Gantz, you're pretty full of shit. One part of the "depth" (really annoying term) of VF4 comes from the fact that there AREN'T complex button sequences and canned combos. Combos and juggles are all done by mixing together individual moves, not memorizing complex strings of button sequences. To add injury to insult, *most* VF4 moves aren't anything more than a direction on the stick and a combination of punch/kick/guard.

What "complex key combinations" are you talking about?

I was being sarcastic and you proved my point about VF4's "depth".

Most hardcore fighting game fans simplify everything and say that only the VF type of fighting games are great, the rest are crappy and has shallow gameplay or whatever. I'm sorry but that's just plain stupid. It's all a matter of what type of gameplay you prefer. Just as in racing games. You can't say that the Burnout games are crap and Forza is awesome just because Forza has more depth in it's gameplay. It all depends on what type of gameplay you're looking for.

Brandon knows what's up.

Arcade or Quest

Both.

 

[Mr. Rellik]

Only nobody here has said that VF is the only good fighting game. Only that the mainstream 3d fighters are better than DOA, which is lacking in depth. Some of the combos in tekken require more skill than any of those in VF4. (EWGF X 4) The problem with T5 is that some of the combos that are still way to easy to do are higly damaging 80% of life (re: T5 console). Even one of my buddies that's a well known bob player, Foxstep, says T5 (console) is broke.

The depth of VF comes from the advanced techiques you can use for defense *go to virtuafighter.com and read if you must* and some of the moves take practice before you can do them. Akira's SPOD, DLC, 1 frame knee, all require practice. I hear that gave the akira ripoff character in Doa 4 a spod. Anyone know the input? Wolf and Jeffery both have just frame attacks. Buffering in the dash after Kage's B+P+G throw requires practice, and your efforts are rewarded by practicing too. In VF4:FT kage has a hard to do just frame sequence attack out of his dragon punch. Super l337 and damaging on counter.

In no other fighter you can find is the cast so well balanced as it is in vf4. A Shun Di player won the last Japanese national that sega sponsored.

If DOA were that good there would be a tournament scene for the game.

P.S.
No fighter is "perfect", but at least most of the other fighters flaws don't stick out at the basic level of the game.

 

[Anyanka]

Counting frames is knowing how fast a move executes and is used mainly to punish recovery or beat other attacks out before said attack executes (good priority or not) not to read the game and see which move is coming next; that is called anticipation, which comes from noticing patters in your opponent's style.

Yeah, I've never understood why the phrase "counting frames" is always brought up as like this status symbol of being hardcore. People know what can be punished either through trial and error or the frame data being published. I don't think anyone actually sits there and makes mental note of each frame as they are playing. You'd have to be like Rain man or something.


I don't think Tekken's big damage juggles are a balance problem even if they're easy to do because everyone can do it. Even Kuma can take half your life with a juggle. The problem is when the launch to start it is safe and the opponent lands in position for oki or big wall damage. Julia can do insane damage from a juggle but the launcher is either unsafe or dependent on counter hit. Steve can do the same kind of damage with little risk.