MisterGrey3000
Member
Also anyone seriously trying to argue men are as equally objectified in comics, call me when they regularly appear and fight in outfits like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbUpGoOjFWw
OuO
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why do we care so much about what female superheroes wear, anyway?
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
- Start date
- Status
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbUpGoOjFWw
OuO
deadpool (maybe a stretch but he is ugly)
wolverine 5'3"
I would put Big Bertha on here, but she is probably a joke character.
What if you were nigh invulnerable and hot as fuck?
Finaika
Member
Is that Supergirl?
You know, it's actually a bit vain of Manhattan to appear so ripped. Who knows, maybe he increased his dong size as well.I would go nude in that case.
Was this the original comic? Because it makes way more sense than the comic version, that I saw quite a few times before.
well in the comics he probably didn't, but the movie, I'd give it a fifty fifty.
NSFW links to Dr Manhattan's boy jangles
http://moviechopshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dr20manhattan203.jpg
http://moviechopshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/drmanhattan.jpg
+1 for use of the term "boy jangles".
Hah, that's funny. Comic one definitely looks more like a grower than a shower
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
See male or female that is just a badass fucking costume
You can't really make that comparison because wrestling is performed by real people. Infact if anything it supports the idea of female superheroes the way they are now, because the women in wrestling choose to sign up to do it, they're not forced into it and the majority of them all enjoy what they do, despite wearing crazy sexy clothes.
Finaika
Member
The difference is that women wear sexy clothes in real life to boost their confidence, not for titillation. Women wear skimpy clothes in comics for the sole purpose of arousing the male readers.
Why is that a problem? Also one thing you'll notice about all female superheroes who wear these costumes is their characters are most of the time extremely confident in their own ability. Just because the purpose of that characters appearance was made for a specific audience doesn't change the fact their character is what it is.
Also there's plenty of women in real life who dress sexy to arouse men/other women. Attraction is part of human nature and there's very little wrong with targetting that attraction through various means.
Those are sports.
It's not a problem at all, it's just a defining factor for these comics that cause them to be seen as juvenile and sexist (which they are).
I disagree because wrestling and comic books share similar issues such as embracing fewer female types and basically forcing female characters to look more like cheerleaders instead of fighters. Sure some women will embrace it, and there are even exceptions like Chyna, but that doesn't mean you're not shutting out body types and character concepts that would be stars on the other sex (such as Mick Foley), etc
The original can be found in a link in the OP's article. I like the original better because it really does highlight the difference in male and female power fantasies.
Well for fat male superheroes you have Nelson Jent from Dial H and Chuck Taine/Bouncing Boy from LoSH. Open-Window Man in Dial H was kind of large too.
For fat female superheroes you have Faith/Zephyr from Valiant's Harbinger series.
For short heroes, Wolvie is meant to be short. And I suppose there's Puck. And, uh, Gates (though he's an alien). Umm, Ant-Man and Wasp can become short...
Okay, ... I've got nuthin'
Current Psylocke's costume is pretty good actually.
As she is in X-Men:
As she is in X-Force:
And we're getting them; I refer you to my post on the previous page.
The problem is there are still a few holdouts among the more popular characters. Power Girl's boob window, while not a big deal to me personally, should be covered; Wonder Woman's costume should look more like armor; Harley should go back to looking more like a jester and less like...whatever she looks like now.
Why is he 6'3 in the movies?
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Though I think diversity in comics is great, I'm opposed to censorship regardless of whether it's the left or right.
I couldn't image telling artists what is and isn't acceptable to create, or telling grown adults that they should be forbidden from titillation in a niche medium.
For the ladies, they seem to love him. You'll never see a short, ugly wolverine in the movies.
I couldn't image telling artists what is and isn't acceptable to create, or telling grown adults that they should be forbidden from titillation in a niche medium.
For the ladies, they seem to love him. You'll never see a short, ugly wolverine in the movies.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Comics don't have to be niche. They didn't used to be, the characters they depict are increasingly not, and comic art in general is still universally popular (by which I mean newspaper comics, webcomics, manga, and just general cartoons and illustration are still very much things people care about)
In particular if in the next decade or so I have a daughter and she expresses an interest in superheroes and comics (two things that are not unlikely) I'd like it if it was easier to find comics that aren't sending the message to a seven year old that women are primarily there to look sexy for the (invisible) camera.
SillyEskimo
Member
I like scantly clad comic book and fantasy women. I guess I'm part of the problem!
chaobreaker
Member
This has already been said in this thread multiple times, but there's nothing wrong with liking sexily dressed fantasy woman. It's just a problem when an entire genre is nearly completely full of them.
Jojo's transcends all trends. Straight male here and I always wanted to be a gangster superstar but my punch ghost never manifested itself.
I like this comic edit way too much.
Yes, damn the industry for catering to their fanbase. There is clearly money if you change what you have been doing for years to make the bulk of your revenue! Trust me!
There are tons of artists that work in the medium, some that are more progressive than others when it comes to this. They will expand if people support them. It is not a problem, there is clearly no magical entity preventing people from making comics without scantily clad women (see examples in this thread). It's just what a majority of the people like to buy.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
They already changed their fanbase and the result was an enormous market contraction. If comic books had always had the audience that they do now figures like Superman and Spider-Man would not be cultural icons.
Yeah, this is exactly how I feel.
Hasn't the comic book industry been in decline despite the blockbuster movies? Maybe the superhero style is getting out of fashion. It reminds me of that crap that Paul Dini went through which to me demonstrates a problem in the comic book industry and other industries: the people up top are out of touch and want to keep things as a boy's club even if the numbers, the times, or ethics say they should try otherwise:
But I suppose it's not too much different than WWE wrestling or manga/anime focusing on schoolgirls and etc
But I suppose it's not too much different than WWE wrestling or manga/anime focusing on schoolgirls and etc
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The comic book industry has been in decline since the 90s. All of the comic books I read as a kid were my mom's old collections in the basement because there was nowhere for me to really buy contemporary comics in my hometown.
And boner
I just want a lot female characters in comics to quit being a walking pair of boobs. Or wearing the most scantly clad outfits in battle. It's just dumb and makes me feel embarrassed I'm into the medium.
And personally? It's just not the aesthetic I'm into.
Video games and some movies are the same but that's another "discussion" for Gaming side.
And personally? It's just not the aesthetic I'm into.
Video games and some movies are the same but that's another "discussion" for Gaming side.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
speaking of objectifying women, who dat in your avy? TA
100% agree that I'd prefer Harley to go back to jester rather than homeless juggalette assault victim as she looks now.
Boob window on PG is a classic though, I'd defend that. We should not be legislating against cleavage so much, it's fun. Think of the cosplayers.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Obviously we need more costumes like this:
That's a funny picture, but IRL men don't wear swimming-costume style onesies for acrobatics and athletics. That style of garment is seen often in swimming pools etc though, it's not out of the ordinary. Apart from the boob window. Which is neat.
I come at this from a slightly different perspective. I've been involved -- one way or another -- with the industry for about two and a half decades. In that time I've written comics, edited comics, run a comic books store, and generally filled my life with fellow comic book professionals.
In particular, I know a lot of store owners. And they would love if the industry would take these issues more seriously, because they're watching the industry bleed out because it can't bring new readers in, which is the worst problem the industry faces at this point. The industry can't sustain itself on aging comic book readers, and yet they've lost virtually all of the youth audience.
One of the places store owners have been finding new customers is with young girls and women. Older women tend to be fans of the non-superhero stuff, in part because of the generally awful portrayal of women in superhero comics. Instead they read Walking Dead, Sandman, and a host of other indie comics that have managed to create interesting characters whose tits aren't on display 24/7. For young girls, they've had considerable success with lines like the reboot of Strawberry Shortcake.
But the very presence of posters covered in half-naked women makes many women uncomfortable going into comic books stores. Watching dozens of guys stand around ogling the latest issue of Power Girl doesn't help either. Because they love comics as a medium, and want to see it continue, they know that they can't survive off of just the aging demographic of men who read comics. They need a wider audience, or the industry is toast. Getting that wider audience means acknowledging that current super hero comics aren't particularly desired by the female demographic, and that part of that reason is the poor, often sexist, portrayals of female heroes.
So there's considerable pressure, not just from social groups, but from the retailers themselves, and from industry aware folks like myself, to do a better job of portraying women. You don't have to care, but it's not being done to destroy the boy's club, it's being done in the hope that we can save the industry.
In particular, I know a lot of store owners. And they would love if the industry would take these issues more seriously, because they're watching the industry bleed out because it can't bring new readers in, which is the worst problem the industry faces at this point. The industry can't sustain itself on aging comic book readers, and yet they've lost virtually all of the youth audience.
One of the places store owners have been finding new customers is with young girls and women. Older women tend to be fans of the non-superhero stuff, in part because of the generally awful portrayal of women in superhero comics. Instead they read Walking Dead, Sandman, and a host of other indie comics that have managed to create interesting characters whose tits aren't on display 24/7. For young girls, they've had considerable success with lines like the reboot of Strawberry Shortcake.
But the very presence of posters covered in half-naked women makes many women uncomfortable going into comic books stores. Watching dozens of guys stand around ogling the latest issue of Power Girl doesn't help either. Because they love comics as a medium, and want to see it continue, they know that they can't survive off of just the aging demographic of men who read comics. They need a wider audience, or the industry is toast. Getting that wider audience means acknowledging that current super hero comics aren't particularly desired by the female demographic, and that part of that reason is the poor, often sexist, portrayals of female heroes.
So there's considerable pressure, not just from social groups, but from the retailers themselves, and from industry aware folks like myself, to do a better job of portraying women. You don't have to care, but it's not being done to destroy the boy's club, it's being done in the hope that we can save the industry.
chaobreaker
Member
Do you realize how insulting it is to insinuate that male comic book buyer care enough of how their female characters are dressed that they would drop comics altogether if that was changed?
Do you not realize this percentage is meaningless without other numbers? How many new readers are there? This is the kind of bullshit PR companies put out when sales are dropping.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
speaking of objectifying women, who dat in your avy? TA
100% agree that I'd prefer Harley to go back to jester rather than homeless juggalette assault victim as she looks now.
Boob window on PG is a classic though, I'd defend that. We should not be legislating against cleavage so much, it's fun. Think of the cosplayers.
Oh God, I never thought of that.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This is essentially what I'm trying to say. Superheroes are clearly popular with everybody. Comic art in general has always been popular and comic books in particular are finding broader audiences. There's no real good reason why superhero comics shouldn't be trying to be more inclusive and less alienating except for the "boys club" mentality
FWIW one of my favorite heroes is Phyla-vell, who is a fully clothed lesbian (although I guess her boots might be considered a little kinky).
The double-Ds do get a little silly at times - my wife rolled her eyes when I was reading a Carol Danvers Ms. Marvel issue, which is unfortunate, because she is a well-written character. Overall, I don't think there's something inherently wrong with T&A in comics, given their history and that a lot of the people reading them now are grown men who read them as kids. The story lines, themes and writing certainly have gotten more mature over the past 30+ years. That said, there's certainly room in comics for female bodies/costumes that are more realistic, and publishers would actually find it's a money-maker to have books that appeal to women.
The double-Ds do get a little silly at times - my wife rolled her eyes when I was reading a Carol Danvers Ms. Marvel issue, which is unfortunate, because she is a well-written character. Overall, I don't think there's something inherently wrong with T&A in comics, given their history and that a lot of the people reading them now are grown men who read them as kids. The story lines, themes and writing certainly have gotten more mature over the past 30+ years. That said, there's certainly room in comics for female bodies/costumes that are more realistic, and publishers would actually find it's a money-maker to have books that appeal to women.
- Status