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Why has no one bothered to ripoff Shadow of the Colossus?

S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
I'd love to see this...but mainly as like a random side thing you could do inside of an RPG that already let you do a crapton of other things as well.
 
A

Amazeballs

Member
Probably because achieving that level of interactivity very difficult and time-consuming. From a design standpoint, SotC's design methodology is very technically advanced even to this day. While most other action games use collision boxes to prevent charactes from clipping, SotC uses a more advanced method to allow the player to interact with the colossi. The game's climbing mechanics is actually the interaction between the player character and a tightly tuned morphing collision mesh. A collision mesh is naturally more precise than collision box, and since the colossi move and bend their bodies the mesh needs to morph as well. This is to keep the interactions (mostly) precise and visually sensible, which is important because only visual cues given to the player is the moving body of the colossi.

Another key detail is that mesh also allows the player more possible vectors of movement while climbing, and in turn more ways to leverage their positioning and grip. If climbing was unidirectional, it would be too straightforward and not every strategic since the game would need to restrict the player to moving in the correct position.

I've only read about the process, but I can only imagine the amount of work required in creating a colossus and making it work as well as the ones in the game. Not only would the mesh have to be made, it would need to perfectly synced with the animations. I'd imagine that's far more difficult than syncing simple collision boxes. There's also plenty of physics involved as well.
bakedpony said:
I mean a game where the focus is on beating huge bosses that require thinking, strategizing and eventually climbing to beat them. Not like in some games where the large boss fights are split into different phases.
Click to expand...

The only game I can think of that tried to pulled this off was Xenosaga 2 and that's a turn based game. From what I've seen Metal Gear: Revengeance does this as well for its large bosses but it's definitely not as strategic or nuanced as SotC.
 
Raptomex

Raptomex

Member
I tried SoTC and did not care for it. Come at me. I prefer a more populated world. Dragon's Dogma comes to mind. Loved all the battles. But I can't really say I had to figure out weak points. The battles were pretty straightforward.
 
C

Canis lupus

Member
Devs are afraid to try out something radically different., it's hard to greenlight an original IP like it with most publishers.
 
B

Bikram

Member
Amazeballs said:
Probably because achieving that level of interactivity very difficult and time-consuming. From a design standpoint, SotC's design methodology is very technically advanced even to this day. While most other action games use collision boxes to prevent charactes from clipping, SotC uses a more advanced method to allow the player to interact with the colossi. The game's climbing mechanics is actually the interaction between the player character and a tightly tuned morphing collision mesh. A collision mesh is naturally more precise than collision box, and since the colossi move and bend their bodies the mesh needs to morph as well. This is to keep the interactions (mostly) precise and visually sensible, which is important because only visual cues given to the player is the moving body of the colossi.

Another key detail is that mesh also allows the player more possible vectors of movement while climbing, and in turn more ways to leverage their positioning and grip. If climbing was unidirectional, it would be too straightforward and not every strategic since the game would need to restrict the player to moving in the correct position.

I've only read about the process, but I can only imagine the amount of work required in creating a colossus and making it work as well as the ones in the game. Not only would the mesh have to be made, it would need to perfectly synced with the animations. I'd imagine that's far more difficult than syncing simple collision boxes. There's also plenty of physics involved as well.


The only game I can think of that tried to pulled this off was Xenosaga 2 and that's a turn based game. From what I've seen Metal Gear: Revengeance does this as well for its large bosses but it's definitely not as strategic or nuanced as SotC.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good explanation. Do you have any link where this is explained in detail? Would love to read about this.
 
B

bakedpony

Member
Amazeballs said:
Probably because achieving that level of interactivity very difficult and time-consuming. From a design standpoint, SotC's design methodology is very technically advanced even to this day. While most other action games use collision boxes to prevent charactes from clipping, SotC uses a more advanced method to allow the player to interact with the colossi. The game's climbing mechanics is actually the interaction between the player character and a tightly tuned morphing collision mesh. A collision mesh is naturally more precise than collision box, and since the colossi move and bend their bodies the mesh needs to morph as well. This is to keep the interactions (mostly) precise and visually sensible, which is important because only visual cues given to the player is the moving body of the colossi.

Another key detail is that mesh also allows the player more possible vectors of movement while climbing, and in turn more ways to leverage their positioning and grip. If climbing was unidirectional, it would be too straightforward and not every strategic since the game would need to restrict the player to moving in the correct position.

I've only read about the process, but I can only imagine the amount of work required in creating a colossus and making it work as well as the ones in the game. Not only would the mesh have to be made, it would need to perfectly synced with the animations. I'd imagine that's far more difficult than syncing simple collision boxes. There's also plenty of physics involved as well.


The only game I can think of that tried to pulled this off was Xenosaga 2 and that's a turn based game. From what I've seen Metal Gear: Revengeance does this as well for its large bosses but it's definitely not as strategic or nuanced as SotC.
Click to expand...

Wow. Reading this made me impressed with Team Ico more. No wonder The Last Guardian is still not done. They must be implementing some crazy AI with the bird thing.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
For single bosses that remind me of Shadow of the Colossus, there's always Quadraxis from Metroid Prime 2. The way you end the fight by climbing on its legs and timing a jump to the head is fantastic.

Quadraxis.jpg
 
S

Shadow Ranger

Member
Definitly thought Lords of Shadow tried to mimic it, but not so well.

Dragon's Dogma you could say borrowed the climbing element, but at least it was done pretty well until the camera spazzes out.
 
M

mclem

Member
You have to commit the entire game to that design; SOTC's mechanics were so bespoke they didn't really fit for general-purpose use, and having distinct design paradigms for 'boss fight' and 'other content out of boss fight' would up the development workload significantly. I don't think you'd see such a design decision out of the indie field, these days, where they can afford to focus on a single mechanic to the detriment of others if they so wish.
 
A

Amazeballs

Member
Shadow Ranger said:
Definitly thought Lords of Shadow tried to mimic it, but not so well.

Dragon's Dogma you could say borrowed the climbing element, but at least it was done pretty well until the camera spazzes out.
Click to expand...

From what I understand LoS were QTEs and scripted animations disguised as interactivity, which is probably why it failed in that aspect.

Never played Dragon's Dogma but the climbing seemed gimmicky because of the seemingly limited scope of its application. It looked as though players were latching onto predesignated areas and not really climbing up to them.

mclem said:
You have to commit the entire game to that design; SOTC's mechanics were so bespoke they didn't really fit for general-purpose use, and having distinct design paradigms for 'boss fight' and 'other content out of boss fight' would up the development workload significantly. I don't think you'd see such a design decision out of the indie field, these days, where they can afford to focus on a single mechanic to the detriment of others if they so wish.
Click to expand...

SotC implemented the design paradigm in such a way that there was a good amount of variation and scaling. Colossi run the gamut of small to large, slow to fast. The topography of each one is unique as well. There are even ones that fly and swim. These variations aren't just visible, they engage the player to think differently as they climb.

What holds SotC back is the sheer amount of effort needed to go into each iteration of that design, but it's significant that the game still manages to be more varied than some modern action and FPS with so little content.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
SotC does not contain any easy to copy systems really. It's a unique hand crafted experience and those are rare and almost impossible to "copy". The game wasn't a huge hit or anything neither so it's easy to see why it didn't inspire more influence in the industry.

Dragons Dogma has a movement and combat system that loosely feel connected to SotC in some way.
 
T

thewhitehawk

Member
I think we've seen more than a few games that borrowed ideas straight from Shadow of the Colossus. Zelda: Twilight Princess I felt had drawn some inspiration from the sprawling landscapes and color palette of Shadow of the Colossus. I've fought and see more than one gigantic boss that the main character has to jump through to kill, but for some reason I can only recall one example right now from Rodea's trailer.

And then we have Rime for the PS4 which seems to borrow part of the series' spirit. I think that's the way it should be, people should take bits and pieces of franchises they appreciate and use them sporadically when it makes sense and improves their original vision.
 
R

Ranger X

Member
bakedpony said:
I don't mean merely having huge bosses in games (such as in God of war, Lords of Shadows etc..)

I mean a game where the focus is on beating huge bosses that require thinking, strategizing and eventually climbing to beat them. Not like in some games where the large boss fights are split into different phases.

I'm talking about really figuring out what to do in order to get to the boss's weak point. How come we haven't gotten a SOTC ripoff yet since it was widely praised by critics and gamers alike?
Click to expand...

You can't paint the Mona Lisa 2 times.
 
W

Winterfang

Banned
The same reason there's not a sequel for it. It would get old fast, it's very to leave it as its own game rather than try to turn it into a genre.
 
R

RaikuHebi

Banned
They've already ripped off The Last Guardian in Maijin and the Foresaken Kingdom:
tree-of-life.jpg


Those massive enemies near the end of FFXIII gave me SotC vibes, as have videos of Xenoblade.
 
A

Alienous

Member
The only reasonable expansion on the concept would revolve around multiplayer. Teaming up to weigh down a limb, or everyone climbing onto one side of a monster to topple it. Things like that. Otherwise it'd be a very similar experience, I imagine.

Actually, I think that was the original concept of SOTC.
 
A

Akira83

Banned
Personally i didnt find the gameplay in SOTC to be very novel or interesting at all, and possibly other devs feel the same way?
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
I was thinking today about SOTC is one of the purest video games of the modern era. It reminds me of Gravity (film) in how it's focused so narrowly on what its trying to portray, but does so excellently.

The reason few people have been able to copy it is because few developers have the freedom that Sony affords teams like the Ico team. Everything has to have its shooty elements, its character-driven story cutscenes, its upgraded systems, its vehicle levels, its melee combat, its multiplayer, etc.

We have had games where you fight big huge bosses, but nothing has really copied SOTC's purity.
 
R

Ranger X

Member
In all seriousness, its not all games that will create genres and ripoffs.
If a game is too particuliar or works too good as being "alone", it will not generate ripoffs, just like SOTC. However, the later game DID influence alot of things:

- Bosses are suddendly big again.
- Lots of compagions appeared in games.
- Climbing bosses or living things appeared in other games.

I also feel games gained a certain "scenery" aspect people didn't cared for before SOTC. Ambiances and landscapes, attentions of ambiance quality went up a little since SOTC.
 
sublimit

sublimit

Banned
Like others have said a game like SOTC would have been a very risky project especially on current gen platforms.It would demand a very big budget and unfortunatelly the target group for that type of game is probably too small to generate some reasonable profit.SOTC as much as it was praised by critics and fans didn't sell much.
 
I

Inside

Member
thewhitehawk said:
And then we have Rime for the PS4 which seems to borrow part of the series' spirit. I think that's the way it should be, people should take bits and pieces of franchises they appreciate and use them sporadically when it makes sense and improves their original vision.
Click to expand...

Yes Rime for PS4 looks like having some of the same vibe going on. I am personally looking forward to playing this game when it arrives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-JunUax8xg
 
T

thunder_snail

Member
Ranger X said:
I also feel games gained a certain "scenery" aspect people didn't cared for before SOTC. Ambiances and landscapes, attentions of ambiance quality went up a little since SOTC.
Click to expand...

Yes. And Team ICO really revolutionized natural looking lighting. To this day, not that many game simulate sky and sun light better than ICO and SotC imo. Technology has become better but only a few lighting artists can meet that standard these days imo.
 
E

elhav

Member
There are some games that took elements from SOTC, like Dragon's Dogma, Castlevania Lords of shadow and err well I don't have more examples but I'm sure there are others.

Oh yeah, Nier gave me a SOTC vibe at some points, but maybe it's just me.
 
W

whome0

Member
Malicious (PS3) is basicly the series of end-of-level bosses. Each level needs different tactic and have one giant monster. good game and challenging to master. It was PS+ EU freebie last year.
 
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