Support NeoGAF

[Alo0oy]

I just reached Route C and started controlling

Spoiler

A2

. And I'm quickly running out of patience.

There are three ways to reach your destination in this gane, one of them is fast travel fro a save point that unlocks at the midpoint of every route, and fast travel alone wouldn't be so archiac if navigating the world wasn't so tedious.

You can sprint to your destination, and at that point the game tries its hardest to make sprinting as tedious as possible, from uneven terrain halting your momentum to the desert going out of its way to mess up your sprint.


You can also look for a mount, awkwardly go through the menus and use bait, and you have to do the same thing every time you dismount.

I don't have a problem with fast travel being only available at save points and being unlocked halfway through the game. But when navigation is this bad, the game is trying its hardest to make navigation as tedious as possible.

Which is a shame, because the combat and story are great, and it feels like traversal is holding the game back.

I have no problem with the small open world or the fetch quests because the combat is great, I just don't like navigating the world, which is what makes the quests terrible.

The map itself is pretty useless, my first playthrough was miserable because of that map and useless waypoints, but after memorizing the world with one week of play time, I don't even use the map or terrible waypoints anymore.

I'm not saying the game should be linear, but if you're going to make an open world game, make it fun to explore, Nier's open world is one of the worst designed open worlds I have played in the last few years.

TL;DR the traversal and navigating the open world is an albatross holding a great game back.

 

[Vigamox]

It's really not that bad once fast travel opens up.

You can easily get mounts by completing a certain quest which gives you an item that makes mounts approach you, or even spawns one at every save location for easy access.

And the tripping/stumbling is pretty annoying in the desert, but easily avoidable anywhere else. Just don't run into any bushes.

 

[Durante]

I can't say that I'm having an issue with it. The individual areas aren't that large, and they have enough memorable points that I find it easy to get around (sometimes with the help of a series of custom map markers). Also, 2B feels great to control.

 

[brickarts295]

It's really not that bad once fast travel opens up.

You can easily get mounts by completing a certain quest which gives you an item that makes mounts approach you, or even spawns one at every save location for easy access.

And the tripping/stumbling is pretty annoying in the desert, but easily avoidable anywhere else. Just don't run into any bushes.

Yeah I had to find about this while looking over the trophy list. By then it was too late, I like travelling by foot.

 

[Majmun]

I wish all games would have a dash move. It feels so good.

 

[Stripper13]

I posted my thoughts on the game earlier today in the OT.

I agree with you. Game is great but the open world was not fun to navigate and actually started to annoy me towards the end. It doesn't help that the ability to transport is frequently taken away from you, or at least, you are locked from certain points.

More anything though, I just found the layout and item placement incredibly boring. I had the entire map memorised about half way through the game and tried to transport as often as possible.

That said, I had just finished Horizon so by comparison Nier was not pretty to look at or particularly interesting aesthetically. Part of that is the bleak atmosphere but mostly it was the design itself.

 

[StevePharma]

I agree.

Coming off of some open world videogames that pamper the player with free fast travel (like Watch_Dogs 2) or semi-free/unlockable fast travel, it took some time for me to get used to a more 'archaic' feeling traversal mechanic in Nier. The story is amazing but I have the same gripes with the traversal as of now.

Just doing the early game's Jean-Paul quest which makes you run around the world and back is just a horrible form of quest-design. But then a couple minutes later I'm collecting stamps in an amusement park and the pay-off for that quest is GREAT.

If you could just traverse to the unlocked vending machines, that would be great. Mind you, I'm only a couple of hours in, but it seems from OP that things won't change as much.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

I agree.

Coming off of some open world videogames that pamper the player with free fast travel (like Watch_Dogs 2) or semi-free/unlockable fast travel, it took some time for me to get used to a more 'archaic' feeling traversal mechanic in Nier. The story is amazing but I have the same gripes with the traversal as of now.

Just doing the early game's Jean-Paul quest which makes you run around the world and back is just a horrible form of quest-design. But then a couple minutes later I'm collecting stamps in an amusement park and the pay-off for that quest is GREAT.

If you could just traverse to the unlocked vending machines, that would be great. Mind you, I'm only a couple of hours in, but it seems from OP that things won't change as much.

You can do exactly that pretty soon.

Honestly I don't really get this one. You just never have to travel that far. Crossing the world takes maybe two minutes (?) I never really felt it was tedious to get around and I'm playing the game the whole way through for a second time. It's just isn't that big and movement is responsive and enjoyable.

 

[Vazra]

Im enjoying the map and riding boars when fast travel is not available cuts a lot of time. Also the characters themselves move so fast and have maneuvers to make shortcuts or find alternative routes to make it enjoyable. Fast travel unlocks at a reasonable time too so no idea what is the issue. Also you can ride animals without bait so no need to be buying bait all the time. I forgot the name of the item tho.

 

[Mailbox]

Its a pretty small world tbh. I don't have an issue w/ navigation in the slightest.
If i ever don't wanna walk somewhere, i find the nearest terminal and fast travel.

 

[Jocund]

If you could just traverse to the unlocked vending machines, that would be great. Mind you, I'm only a couple of hours in, but it seems from OP that things won't change as much.

You unlock that very ability a little ways into the story. Keep doing the main missions.

But yeah, the world is small and you can move real fast. I never had an issue.

 

[Auto_aim1]

WHAT. I just finished this game yesterday after 30 odd hours and traversal was never a problem. You can add a 14% movement chip or higher if you want. Although, I went full on attack, health and XP chips.

 

[Holundrian]

Don't feel the same way but I admit I might be hardened by Yakuza 0(love it) and FFXV(meh) which probably lose out over games that nail the navigation aspect better. Still Nier:A beats out those two in my book by far so it didn't really feel all that bad at all.

 

[Alo0oy]

It's really not that bad once fast travel opens up.

You can easily get mounts by completing a certain quest which gives you an item that makes mounts approach you, or even spawns one at every save location for easy access.

And the tripping/stumbling is pretty annoying in the desert, but easily avoidable anywhere else. Just don't run into any bushes.

As I mentioned in the OP, you have to go to thr menu every time you use a mount, and then every time you dismount. It's very tedious. They could have solved it by giving you a "call mount" button.

I wouldn't even use a mount if the game didn't actively try to halt your momentum every time you trip of a tiny stone.

 

[Moaradin]

But it's not? Moving around in that game is pretty fun, and the world itself isn't that big. Plus there's the fast travel.

And you don't need bait to ride on mounts. You can get an item to automatically jump on them.

 

[Kthulhu]

You can do a side quest that gets you a pouch that lets you ride animals without bait.

The fast travel made up for the constant back and forth you have to do IMO.

Also, don't play Zelda BOTW OP. If Nier's traversal was annoying to you then BOTW will make you tear your hair out.

 

[StevePharma]

You can do exactly that pretty soon.

Honestly I don't really get this one. You just never have to travel that far. Crossing the world takes maybe two minutes (?) I never really felt it was tedious to get around and I'm playing the game the whole way through for a second time. It's just isn't that big and movement is responsive and enjoyable.

Thanks for clarifying.

Above impressions are just gut feelings for now. I love the way 2B controls, but traversing something so barren coming off of Horizon and Zelda, I have to reset my expectations somewhat.

I'm sure all will be fine in a couple of hours.

 

[Quote]

I can ride moose and boars without using bait. I'm sure I have an item in my inventory that allows it. That said, I never ride them, I just use the fast travel system, it's completely serviceable. Sprinting as well.

 

[IrishNinja]

its poor design is purposeful, OP: it's supposed to be a clever reply to the disastrous trend of open-world western games, often barren of any interesting activities or social commen..wait wait no sorry, i was thinking of No More Heroes, my bad

 

[Iriscomeback]

Moving around feels great to me, and there is fast travel.

Seeing 2B sprinting around sure is something...

 

[Strings]

Just not a very good open world imo.

 

[Kthulhu]

Just not a very good open world imo.

I agree, but that's probably intentional, given Automata's legacy.

 

[J 0 E]

I started playing NieR right after Horizon and I know exactly what you mean

Regardless of the graphical downgrade, NieR's world seemed empty and bland by comparison

 

[TissueBox]

Yes the open world can be rather dull and is one of its weaknesses. Just use fast travel and focus on the combat and characters.

 

[13ruce]

This game is open world?
Thought it was linear by playing the demo😮

 

[Squire]

I wish all games would have a dash move. It feels so good.

That it breaks out into an infinite sprint is genius on their part.

That's the game for you though: genius.

 

[OniBaka]

Can't say I feel the same, love the world.

 

[Arklite]

I'd disagree. Feels like some of the fastest and smoothest traversal in recent open/semi-open world games. The emphasis on agility and speed is everywhere. You can slide down sand and through water. You can jump to rooftops and constantly boost forward. You can glide down from anywhere and blaze through the ground on foot. Engaging with the controls has been a big part of the fun for me.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I wasn't bothered by the open world because I thought the fast travel was pretty good, you can move really fast with the sprint and glide, and the world itself isn't that big. It's the size of an old-school Zelda like TP at the most.

 

[Freeman76]

You find using animal bait awkward? Erm, its 2 button presses.

 

[Alo0oy]

People keep saying just sprint. But I mentioned that in the OP, your character stumbles every time you step on something, and then your momentum resets. And in the desert sliding also resets your momentum.

 

[NightShift]

I disagree. I loved the design of the world and just running around and jumping to maintain your top speed in fun. Never used bait to ride the moose and boars either. I appreciate the change up from the traditional sandbox design every other open world game does today.

People keep saying just sprint. But I mentioned that in the OP, your character stumbles every time you step on something, and then your momentum resets. And in the desert sliding also resets your momentum.

Stop running into bushes and jump over/ avoid obstacles big enough to make you trip.

 

[Alo0oy]

I'd disagree. Feels like some of the fastest and smoothest traversal in recent open/semi-open world games. The emphasis on agility and speed is everywhere. You can slide down sand and through water. You can jump to rooftops and constantly boost forward. You can glide down from anywhere and blaze through the ground on foot. Engaging with the controls has been a big part of the fun for me.

I'd agree if the sliding and stumbling didn't halt your momentum.

 

[ChaosShadow]

People keep saying just sprint. But I mentioned that in the OP, your character stumbles every time you step on something, and then your momentum resets. And in the desert sliding also resets your momentum.

You only stumble if you run through a bush, avoid bushes.

 

[Moaradin]

People keep saying just sprint. But I mentioned that in the OP, your character stumbles every time you step on something, and then your momentum resets. And in the desert sliding also resets your momentum.

Every time you step on something is a bit hyperbolic. It's pretty much only big rocks in the desert and big bushes, both of which are easily avoidable. Sliding and jumping doesn't reset your momentum, though gliding does.

 

[Squire]

You find using animal bait awkward? Erm, its 2 button presses.

I think a lot of people probably miss that there are two different quick menus you can use as opposed to hitting options.

 

[Alo0oy]

You only stumble if you run through a bush, avoid bushes.

It's not just bushes though. I've been playing this game for a week, and did every single side quest I've come across so far all the way to the beginning of route C.

 

[SixMachine]

I'd agree if the sliding and stumbling didn't halt your momentum.

Stop running into a bush, those are the things that make you stumble. You can easily do a short jump then dash over it. Just chaining dashes together is better than just running (let her slide a bit before doing another one).

 

[Marmaladefire]

I don't love the open world but once you get into some sections there are interesting things there. Beyond the plot point reasons fast travel wouldn't work at any given moment, it's pretty reliable, and the world is purposely barren. It would defeat the purpose of the story if it were bustling and varied. BUT I wouldn't have minded if the game were a bit more linear. Probably would have made some side quests less "meh" and shaved some hours off of the game too.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

I do think they should open up fast travel quicker for people doing side quests. Maybe if you do a few side quests it opens up early or something. I can see how people trying to do everything straight away would find it too much. Also you can't really miss anything by doing the story until you get fast travel. So if you're not enjoying side questing at that time it's fine to push forward

 

[Quote]

I'd agree if the sliding and stumbling didn't halt your momentum.

I honestly didn't know bushes or obstacles messed with your sprint till Route C, because it's so easy to avoid them.

I try to imagine dropping Aloy into NieR's world and she doesn't more nearly as quickly.

 

[ScaryShark]

It's one of a few reasons I tabled it for the time being. The world is not only annoying to get around, it's also incredibly dull and not really that interesting to be in from moment to moment.

That game is harsh coming directly off Horizon and doing my first real playthrough of Bloodborne right now.

 

[Alo0oy]

Every time you step on something is a bit hyperbolic. It's pretty much only big rocks in the desert and big bushes, both of which are easily avoidable. Sliding and jumping doesn't reset your momentum, though gliding does.

It's not really hyperbolic when you run around to do quests so much.

There's the desert, sewers, and uneven ground in the city, which is a huge chunk of the game world that you navigate as you do side quests. Navigating just isn't fun.

 

[Stripper13]

I honestly didn't know bushes or obstacles messed with your sprint till Route C, because it's so easy to avoid them.

I try to imagine dropping Aloy into NieR's world and she doesn't more nearly as quickly.

There is alot of jank to the stumble mechanic. I had it happen plenty of times while going up slight inclines and seemimgly random shit like pipes etc.

I do think the movement is great and it shines when you're traversing gaps and some of the platforming sections (Forest). But that doesn't change that the open world is not particularly good looking, and the layout is not interesting at all.

 

[Alo0oy]

I honestly didn't know bushes or obstacles messed with your sprint till Route C, because it's so easy to avoid them.

I try to imagine dropping Aloy into NieR's world and she doesn't more nearly as quickly.

I'd honestly rather have a slower but more "adaptable" sprint to the one the game currently has. Why are Androids bipedal if they can't navigate uneven terrain very well?

 

[Kumubou]

For people complaining about how the game world feels barren and lackluster... what kind of budget are you expecting this game to have? I wonder how much of the game world is a statement toward certain design trends and how much of it is just working within the constraints of their budget. (One impression I get from games that Yoko Taro directs is it seems like he manages to get a lot out a seemingly tiny budget.)

The movement in the game is, for the most part, fine. You'll probably want to equip some movement speed upgrades (as it also makes your sprint that much faster) and there is an item that makes animals appear at every spawn point (even when it would make no sense, like the middle of a desert). The one thing I will kind of give you is the tripping -- it's hard to believe that a exquisitely engineered combat android with that kind of locomotion (seriously, how the hell do you surf down a sand dune in heels???) then end up stumbling over a rock not even a foot off the ground. Seriously, she can phase through explosions but then ends up tripping over a rock.

 

[Stripper13]

It's one of a few reasons I tabled it for the time being. The world is not only annoying to get around, it's also incredibly dull and not really that interesting to be in from moment to moment.

That game is harsh coming directly off Horizon and doing my first real playthrough of Bloodborne right now.

Basically this. Both of those games were great open world design. Lots of interesting places to see, great views and landmarks, and deliberate/clever item placement that encouraged exploration or trial.

I experienced none of that in Nier. I explored intially to see everything. But it didn't take long to map it out and start ignoring everywhere that didn't have a quest icon within.

Fast travel helps dramatically but I couldn't help but feel that if the world was more interesting I wouldn't have found traversal so cumbersome by the end of route A.

 

[Quote]

I'd honestly rather have a slower but more "adaptable" sprint to the one the game currently has. Why are Androids bipedal if they can't navigate uneven terrain very well?

Have you gone back to Horizon at all? I mean, I like that game a lot too, I got the Platinum Trophy, but I just can't relate.

 

[Moaradin]

I never considered the stumbling to be a big deal to begin with. Every time it happened to me, I immediately canceled it into the dash and was back to going full speed again. Never thought it was an inconvenience in the 80 hours that I've played.

I think the traveling in this game is great tbh. The general movement is fun which is the most important thing. It controls like a dream and hopping off rooftops never got boring. Once I unlocked fast travel, I hardly ever ran long distances unless I wanted to or if it was story related, and the mounts were perfect for short distance traveling. They were usually pretty well placed, like next to a save point for example, so grabbing a boar to run to your objective quicker was pretty convenient. Plus hopping on and off them was pretty instant and smooth.

I dunno, I've just had the exact opposite experience. The world itself is atmospheric and fits the tone of the game, has fantastic music, and actually has stuff worth exploring with the hidden weapons, pods, and documents.

 

[Sarcasm]

What is the item that gives you a mount?