-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why is Nier Automata's open world so tedious to navigate?
- Thread starter Alo0oy
- Start date
Nier was never linear, sorry.
I feel like a lot of people are complaining about very nitpicky things and acting like they are mountains. Yeah the game is obviously not as polished graphically or mechanically as a first party big budget Nintendo title that takes however long to create like Zelda, or Horizon by that same measure...what did you expect.
Does the core experience make those minor nitpicks irrelevant is the question, and obviously people are going to have different opinions on that.
But people should not lose sight of the fact that this game is indeed a small budgeted game, even if its the biggest budget YT has ever gotten, its still pennies compared to the games in which it is being(unfairly IMO) compared.
If you have not played a YT game or are not familiar with him, its understandable to think that, but it would be an incorrect assumption
Not assuming what your experience is, but its really irrelevant to YT what small complaints are when he's thinking about an actual message and world he wants to create..
of course when it comes to stuff like imbalanced difficulty and overpowered chip configurations, there's no excuse, just inane programming
This argument is a bit ridiculous. "Ironic" flaws are still flaws, and make for a worse experience even if you're in on the joke. Being able to look past them because other things are good enough does not excuse them either.
I did get the item. That post was referring to sprinting without a mount.
I don't think that's really the case, in many ways being self aware about limitations inherent in the experience enhances it IMO.
Especially if your going into the experience knowing not to expect everything to be perfectly polished or conventionally like other games.
If one is arguing against the game not having the best graphics or looking drab for example despite obviously knowing that takes budget and manpower that projects like this will never get, i absolutely feel that is not a criticism worth taking seriously.
A and AA games have come back, and this is what they are comprised of.
If that makes one not want to buy the game that's perfectly fine, not every game has to be bought by someone.
I found the stumbling thing really cute the first time I did it. After that I knew to dodge small obstacles or jump over them and never had any problem with them again.
I never really found the use for mounts really, I think I did a test actually.
With a few speed chips I was faster then laying down bait and going to the same place.
This was before I got the satchel, maybe makes mounts more viable with that.
The world is so small you should never actually need to use the map other then look for your destination.
And I would say the art direction makes it quite a beautiful world in its own way.
There are several distinct areas without any bloat between them.
I would actually prefer this small detailed open world to any open world I have played so far.
Makes is a more linear experience, with the opportunity to explore without having to move to the other side of the world.
TLDR The traverse and navigation makes for an focused open world experience without any bloat
I never really found the use for mounts really, I think I did a test actually.
With a few speed chips I was faster then laying down bait and going to the same place.
This was before I got the satchel, maybe makes mounts more viable with that.
The world is so small you should never actually need to use the map other then look for your destination.
And I would say the art direction makes it quite a beautiful world in its own way.
There are several distinct areas without any bloat between them.
I would actually prefer this small detailed open world to any open world I have played so far.
Makes is a more linear experience, with the opportunity to explore without having to move to the other side of the world.
TLDR The traverse and navigation makes for an focused open world experience without any bloat
TriForce Hero
Member
To be honest OP, I'm dashing and I'm loving.
Especialy in the dessert area, feet skating is awesome
Especialy in the dessert area, feet skating is awesome
Does stumbling around add anything to the story or gameplay? Why exactly is that mechanic in the game? It was a trivial issue in the first 5 hours, but it gets extremely bothersome when you're running around doing side quests.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
What do you mean with stumbling around can you elaborate? Sounds a bit like if Nier had Brawl tripping which I'm not aware of.
It means bushes have an actual presence in the world, rather than just being set dressing.
What do you want? Some climactic moment where the machines are about to kill 2B before one trips on a bush and falls down a pit, ending the war forever?
ScientificPizza
Banned
Yeah I don't understand why that's in there at all. It adds nothing positive and just makes traversing the open word worse
Er stumbling around means you hit an object and have your movement temporarily impaired. I'm not sure what else to say about it.
Running through foliage or hitting debris makes sense to make the character stumble as much as other games dedicate time to their own elaborate movements for characters.
Try not to hit stuff i guess? I mean i've been playing this game for...80 hours and have not had any issue with this.
It's not like NieR has a huge world so I don't see some small scale exploration detracting from anything considering how fast it is to move around and the pure fun that is its combat whereas moving is so slow in BOTW and the world just so supermassive & extremely open that moving around can be a bit tedious at times (so much so that when I know I'm purely just going to explore, I put on something like Critical Role to listen to just to make all the slow traversal more bearable).
Not saying BOTW is tedious at all times, but I don't think it's somehow so extraordinarily super mega awesome that all other games pale in comparison (as far as traversal goes) and are worthless shit with no fun delivered as a result. It has some really cool environmental puzzles, some cool locations & great vistas that often make exploration a joy but they could've made sprinting last a lot longer, have the fucking horse follow you around automatically or not try to make it "realistic" and just make the whistle have Epona arrive immediately by Link's side (maybe with some restrictions, like it not being able to come to some mountain top), make climbing a little bit faster etc. just to help remove some tedium that comes with moving so slowly through the world.
It takes all of 0,5 seconds to press R2 and get to sprinting again, so that's really a non-issue most of the time.
When the character goes through a bush or uneven terrain, the character stumbles and your sprint speed resets.
They can have a presence without breaking the flow of movement constantlt, it would be fine if it was just bushes, but there are a lot of things that interfere with simple sprinting.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Exactly. If it's mostly a non-issue and does nothing but momentarily impede your momentum then what's the point
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Oh that. You can just counter dash. At least that's how I dealt with it especially in the desert constant dashing seems to be faster unless you have a mount. The speed is somewhat comparable to getting into max sprint speed again.
Why do you keep running through bushes?
This "stumbling around" is hyperbole tbh.
The only time i've seen it is when i go through bushes and in one instance when i hit something kinda spoilery in route A.
It shows there is tactility to the world. Hate it? go around the damn bush. There are a good deal of ways to get around the relatively small world of Nier Automata.
Also, just dash when you get movement impeded. You've made up the ground, and you are back at full speed.
The only time i've seen it is when i go through bushes and in one instance when i hit something kinda spoilery in route A.
It shows there is tactility to the world. Hate it? go around the damn bush. There are a good deal of ways to get around the relatively small world of Nier Automata.
Also, just dash when you get movement impeded. You've made up the ground, and you are back at full speed.
Saint of Killers
Member
Tedious is slightly harsh, imo. It was a pain having to back track to and through zones for side missions, but save point fast travel sorted that out. And while sprinting hazards can are annoying, I actually kind of like how said hazards (bushes, clumps if dirt) make you pay attention whilst utilising sprint.
Sure, and then it takes a few more seconds to regain your speed, but then you step on more debri and then you have to do it again. It just adds nothing but annoyance.
It's not just debri, uneven grounds, or bushes. The desert constantly breaks up your sprint, as do the sewers.
Those are minor things in a 5-10 hour game, but when every side quest takes you all over the map, it's very annoying and breaks the flow of the game.
Well yeah you find new quests and secrets
Again, it's not just the bushes, they're easy enough to avoid, there are many things that make your top-of-the-line Android unable to deal with uneven terrain, things that even I can deal with when sprinting.
AgentLampshade
Member
I wish there a bit more shortcuts between some areas
and that they opened up each area a little more slowly so we can build up familiarity with each place, but I don't have any major gripes. If you know your way around, you can reach any part of the map in less than 5 minutes. Complaining about stumbling over things sounds a bit trite to me. I figured out that I should avoid bushes almost instantly.
hate going through the sewer every time I want to go to the park
Though the entrance to the desert through the city ruins is annoying, as there's a trip spot seemingly out of nothing.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
This part I agree with a lot. The factory was such a good example of this but stuff like this kind of got lost/dropped later entirely. Just shows you designing levels in that way isn't easy especially when you have to serve all kinds of other needs.
Debri (which are everywhere once something triggers in the story), the entire desert, small steps in the sewers, things hidden underwater, just to name a few.
AgentLampshade
Member
I also jump often because I like the animation, so maybe I'm accidentally jumping over the debris haha.
DarknessTear
Banned
I'm not waving YTs save choice away as a troll. He said it himself in an interview.
Now that I'm not on mobile anymore:
Yoko Taro: One of the reviews of original Nier bashed the game for having archaic savepoint system without autosave, so I told myself "Next time I will make sure I won't put autosave again!"
Now that I'm not on mobile anymore:
Yoko Taro: One of the reviews of original Nier bashed the game for having archaic savepoint system without autosave, so I told myself "Next time I will make sure I won't put autosave again!"
That's probably why it is there. Annoying a subset of people with a bad game mechanic and making them think about how tedious traversal on foot can be sounds like the sort of thing that drives Yoko Taro to make games in the first place. It's the little things in life.
I personally didn't find it as annoying because
-I really like the running/dashing and just controlling in general with the character in the game.
-the map wasn't really that big to make the traversal annoying for me.
Obviously this is just how I felt. I agree that the character tripping when you stumble on debri can be annoying in places. I usually keep dashing over and over again so I didn't have as much trouble with it but I can see where OP is coming from.
-I really like the running/dashing and just controlling in general with the character in the game.
-the map wasn't really that big to make the traversal annoying for me.
Obviously this is just how I felt. I agree that the character tripping when you stumble on debri can be annoying in places. I usually keep dashing over and over again so I didn't have as much trouble with it but I can see where OP is coming from.
But why aren't you going around them is the point I'm actually trying to make.
Ok, I'm going to stop now. You obviously don't realise how hyperbolic you're being. In other games, these objects would have hitboxes that prevent you from going through them. In Nier, instead, these objects slow you down slightly for half a second with an animation that is cancelable by any other animation you do.
Which I guess you think is somehow worse than stopping the character completely.
What are these locations where you are just constantly stepping on debris or running into bushes that this annoys you so? I've run into bushes and there are a couple of narrow pathways where there's some debris but all-in-all these are not something that happens to me every 5 seconds everywhere. The desert does break up your sprint often, but sliding down dunes is decently fast in itself and you could always avoid it by jumping and hovering your way down slopes, so again, really not some all enjoyment destroying issue in the game at all.
I could understand if R2 only returned, like, 20% of your max speed but you run pretty fast immediately after pressing it so it's not like you feel like a slug vs. max lightning speed or anything.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
The open world is much smaller than AAA open world games, the loading times arent as bad as most open world games, you get unlimited sprint, the sprint is faster than most games especially if you put running chips on, you can double jump and glide....i dont understand why you're picking on Nier of all games.
AgentLampshade
Member
The sewer that leads to the
is pain. Here's this big slide, now lets add debris in the way to stop your fun.
flooded city
No, in other open world games, your character reactes to uneven terrain like a proper bipedal being, by stepping over it.
Have you tried doing side quests like scanning the entire desert? Or finding parts for the "game dev", or any of those types of quests?
It's fine if you're going through the story with minimal distractions, but it gets tedious when you just want to go from point A to point B without the game actively annoying you.
It's like when a fly bothers you and then leaves, imagine if that fly stayed on your ass for 60 hours?
SomedayTheFire
Member
Eh, it's boring I guess. But it doesn't take too long to traverse the whole hub. I'm only about 7 hours in though.
It is super easy to avoid nearly all the tripping points to be fair.
It is super easy to avoid nearly all the tripping points to be fair.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Might be the most dumb thread since "FFXV - Metric Units"....
Press jump, press dash, wow that was hard.
Sure, and then do that every few seconds. All because you want to go from the amusement park to the desert.
Freeman76
Member
You make all these complaints yet you base your forum name on a main character who cant climb for shit, stole Geralts Witcher senses and doesnt have half the personality of the main characters in this game. Cant take you seriously, seems like you have something to prove here.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Never had an issue with OW in this game.
- Player character is super fast and smooth to control with lots of traversal options.
- You have mounts that give a considerable boost in speed.
- There is a quick fast travel function with reasonable loading times. (unlike FFXV)
- Player character is super fast and smooth to control with lots of traversal options.
- You have mounts that give a considerable boost in speed.
- There is a quick fast travel function with reasonable loading times. (unlike FFXV)
AgentLampshade
Member
I'd rather jump and dash every few seconds than press forward and rotate the camera like I do in every other open world game.
My username is based on my real name, not a character. And stop being so defensive, I voted for Nier as my most anticipated game this year, we're having a civil discussion, so I'd appreciate it if you take the childish behavior into another thread.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
The open world isn't fantastic but it does the job. I'd say the world isn't so big because of the budget. Of course the bigger the world, the bigger the budget.
Still it's a very good game that handled budget constraints well. Unfortunately I can't say the same for what Star Ocean 5 did.
Still it's a very good game that handled budget constraints well. Unfortunately I can't say the same for what Star Ocean 5 did.
Emphatically disagreed. The traversal in this game was a blast to play for me. Most open world games I feel your character moves too slow, or is limited by dumb stamina mechanics, but in this one you move at a great speed and jumping from place to place is fun. Plus the world map is pretty small, you can run from one end to the other in a few minutes.
Stumbling isn't really an issue for me either. I mostly just traveled on the flat bushless surfaces, and when it did hit me its one quick R2 to get going again.
Stumbling isn't really an issue for me either. I mostly just traveled on the flat bushless surfaces, and when it did hit me its one quick R2 to get going again.