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[DeltaPolarBear]

The irrelevant questions people keep answering about VR:

• What it is?
• What it does?
• How does it work?
• Tethered or wireless?
• Frame rate?

The only question nobody answers that actually matters about VR:

• Why should anyone own one?

Answer that last question and VR will sell like heroine on any given San Francisco street corner.

We have reached the limits of what can be achieved on a flat screen. To make more enticing gaming experiences, it is no longer enough to have bigger TVs. Surround sound is not enough, now we need 3D audio that change as you turn your head.

VR is where gaming is going because it is a natural progression. Gaming is about entering and playing in another world, and VR allow greater experiences. It is an expansion of what flat screen gaming had to offer. Where else are we going to spend all that horsepower?

As for those who say they don't want to look silly while gaming; I assure you, people who don't play videogames already think you look silly when you are gaming.
If you want to look cool, go pick up a contact sport or something.

 

[brian0057]

We have reached the limits of what can be achieved on a flat screen. To make more enticing gaming experiences, it is no longer enough to have bigger TVs. Surround sound is not enough, now we need 3D audio that change as you turn your head.

VR is where gaming is going because it is a natural progression. Gaming is about entering and playing in another world, and VR allow greater experiences. It is an expansion of what flat screen gaming had to offer. Where else are we going to spend all that horsepower?

As for those who say they don't want to look silly while gaming; I assure you, people who don't play videogames already think you look silly when you are gaming.
If you want to look cool, go pick up a contact sport or something.

That's nice. But at no point did you answer why should anyone own one of these machines.
All I read was a lot of abstract and grand things that mean nothing to the average consumer.

You can't sell VR on abstract concepts like "natural progression", "playing in another world", "greater experiences", and "an extention of the flat screen".
You need to be more concrete and less abstract, like the Wii. "You can play tennis" or "you can play Metroid Prime by actually aiming." That's concrete. Not that "future of gaming" crap.

The fact that Half-Life: Alyx wasn't a part of your answer speaks to how little reason there is to use VR.
It's just an extremely linear shooter whose biggest selling point is having Half-Life in the title.
Which would be fine... if this was 2004.

 

[Makariel]

Ok boomer.

 

[Three]

That's nice. But at no point did you answer why should anyone own one of these machines.
All I read was a lot of abstract and grand things that mean nothing to the average consumer.

You can't sell VR on abstract concepts like "natural progression", "playing in another world", "greater experiences", and "an extention of the flat screen".
You need to be more concrete and less abstract, like the Wii. "You can play tennis" or "you can play Metroid Prime by actually aiming." That's concrete. Not that "future of gaming" crap.

The fact that Half-Life: Alyx wasn't a part of your answer speaks to how little reason there is to use VR.
It's just an extremely linear shooter whose biggest selling point is having Half-Life in the title.
Which would be fine... if this was 2004.

Nothing beats VR with two motion tracked controllers. Tell me how else you can be looking somewhere else while shooting in another. How else can you play games like beat saber. New ways to play games go beyond what Wii offered. That's not where VR is concerned. It's accessibility, (price and ease of use) .

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Vr to me is the same as the jump from 2d to 3d.

I was wowed when I saw mario 64 for the first time.

The second time I had that experience was when I played that heist demo on psvr in a kiosk at ebgames.

I legit forgot I was at an ebgames and felt like I was in that van, shooting that gun.

I am glad sony is investing in vr.

It's just right now,the tech is super young, we haven't figured out the "standard" for controls, and it is still super expensive.

But I'm glad sony has some ambition and willing to take the risk, rather than just "why don't they just fund some aaa games again?"

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

VR is never gonna take off, sorry nerds.

 

[DogsAndKisses666]

VR is never gonna take off, sorry nerds.

This dude calling other ppl nerds while using this forum to talk about JRPGs. lmao

 

[VeganElduderino]

Cause Vr is awsome , Vr is not just games , it's a experience

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

You'd have to be delusional and/or incredibly shortsighted to think that VR isn't going to trump traditional gaming when technology advances to the point where it's feasible. It's in its infancy right now and like I said, no matter how much you kick and scream about it, it is the future and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

While it's nice that you have an opinion, it's just that. Your opinion.

It's unfortunate that history, facts, data, etc... don't agree with you, but that's just the way it is. Today. As of now. VR is a tech that has been released several times by several companies, over several years, with several revisions. Nothing in that statement is opinion. It's fact.

But wait, there's more. Today. As of now. VR has failed to achieve wide adoption both in unit sales, as well as game development. The overwhelming majority of gamers worldwide have not found a compelling reason to adopt VR as their gaming platform. Likewise, the vast majority of major developers have not found a compelling reason to release or develop games for VR. Nothing here is opinion either. It's fact.

Until VR demonstrates otherwise, your opinion is speculation that has little to no evidence to support it. It's not kicking and screaming to say that the sky is blue, or that water is wet and will be tomorrow, or that the sun will rise tomorrow. Kicking and screaming is far more akin to claiming that any of that is NOT true, and not going to happen tomorrow. We've seen the product, we've seen the tech, and we've seen the results. And just like flying cars, being skeptical isn't kicking and screaming. It's simply seeing things for what they are.

You're currently kicking and screaming. Until your prediction comes true, or shows signs of doing so. You'll continue to look silly.

 

[John117]

The very question is: Why MS don't invest in VR?

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

Again, can anyone explain this to me? Why do people think flying cars aren't ever going to be a thing? We just don't have the right technology yet to make them a reality.

Just in this recent CES they showed a concept of what flying cars could be when they're finally able to make them: Some kind of personal VTOL that looks like an oversized drone.

There have been various different versions of flying cars made. There's enthusiasts who continue to design them even today.

But the reality of it is that flying cars will never replace the standard ground based ones we know of today. It's just too dangerous. DWI is a pretty common occurrence that causes plenty of accidents as is. Now imagine that happening in the skies everywhere. Imagine the result of a single flying car going through someones roof. How popular will flying cars be when a drunk person loses control and ends up plowing into the stands of a high school football game? Think about all the cars you've driven past broke down on the side of the road. What happens to flying cars when they break down?

The majority of people figured out long ago that flying cars like in Back to the future 2 wasn't gonna be a thing, and moved on. Of course there are those who either enjoy fiddling with the concept as a hobby, or those who simply fail to see the realistic limitations as they exist, that still remain interested in it. But the notion that it's the way of the future was played out long ago.

Same with VR.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

This dude calling other ppl nerds while using this forum to talk about JRPGs. lmao

Bet there are several JRPGs that have sold more copies than all VR games combined

 

[THE DUCK]

You'd have to be delusional and/or incredibly shortsighted to think that VR isn't going to trump traditional gaming when technology advances to the point where it's feasible. It's in its infancy right now and like I said, no matter how much you kick and scream about it, it is the future and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

The only way your statement has any merit is if you are talking 100 years from now, but 10 years from now there is zero chance this will happen.

 

[Romulus]

It's so obvious reading the arguments from people who haven't used high-end VR. You can instantly tell their knowledge of VR is based on youtube videos. Hint: it barely conveys a single percentage of the actual experience.

 

[Romulus]

The only way your statement has any merit is if you are talking 100 years from now, but 10 years from now there is zero chance this will happen.

Or maybe never? But one thing is for sure, for those that can afford it, it will be like PC gaming in a sense. More expensive, but far better than normal gaming. That is already here.

The other thing that non-VR gamers won't see coming in the near future is how VR gaming will look better than normal gaming. VR can track your pupils and lower the detail and resolution of the space you're not directly looking at without you even knowing. The tech is real and already being implemented. I give it 5 years max. You cannot do this with a monitor and the GPU is forced to render basically the entire screen at the same resolution and detail.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

There have been various different versions of flying cars made. There's enthusiasts who continue to design them even today.

But the reality of it is that flying cars will never replace the standard ground based ones we know of today. It's just too dangerous. DWI is a pretty common occurrence that causes plenty of accidents as is. Now imagine that happening in the skies everywhere. Imagine the result of a single flying car going through someones roof. How popular will flying cars be when a drunk person loses control and ends up plowing into the stands of a high school football game? Think about all the cars you've driven past broke down on the side of the road. What happens to flying cars when they break down?

The majority of people figured out long ago that flying cars like in Back to the future 2 wasn't gonna be a thing, and moved on. Of course there are those who either enjoy fiddling with the concept as a hobby, or those who simply fail to see the realistic limitations as they exist, that still remain interested in it. But the notion that it's the way of the future was played out long ago.

Same with VR.

See, I guess your mistake with flying cars is the same mistake you made with VR; you talk like you actually did research when you did not.

Flying cars have the same issues as helicopters. It isn't about safety, but about the noise pollution. All the heavier than air flight mechanisms we have are all too loud for suburban use. Flying cars are just not permitted to operate out of private homes because they break the noise regulation of all the major nations of the world. All the fantasy portrayal of flying cars give them anti-gravity for a reason; nothing else would be legal.

VR is different; there is no issues with VR in terms of legally owning one and using it in your home. It just costs too much for most people, much like cellphones when when I first saw one in the early 90's. But costs is one thing that is guaranteed to come down. It is already good enough to use, it just has to be affordable.

 

[THE DUCK]

One thing I think the vr hardcore pushing the "vr will overtake" normal gaming are missing some key points.

1. Some people just don't care, they won't strap a screen to thier face no matter what

2. Your under the assumption that tech won't overtake vr in other areas. If we are talking 10-30 years, Augmented reality will have a place, as will screens that fill a whole wall that have infinite contrast and resolution that matches what the human eye can see. (I.e it will look real)

I think what we will likely end up with is a split, AR, vr, and conventional.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

One thing I think the vr hardcore pushing the "vr will overtake" normal gaming are missing some key points.

1. Some people just don't care, they won't strap a screen to thier face no matter what

People strap a screen to their face all the damn time already. They just don't see it. Some of them probably are too young to remember a time before cellphones. I see 5 people eating in restaurant, but all 5 are on their phones rather than talking to each other. VR will just be an extension of that.

As for AR? You might not realize this, but AR is like VR but harder and more expensive. So it isn't that AR wouldn't work, but that by the time it does VR would have taken over already.

 

[onnextflix5]

If they get games like half life aylex 2 and other AAA games, psvr2 could take off in few yaers, look how well oculus rift 2 is doing even tho all games on there are small shitty indie games lol, its about the price point, games, and hardware, find the right balance, and it could be gold for them.

 

[Captain Toad]

VR is awesome. It just needs more high quality games built directly for it.

It will never fully replace console gaming. It is an excellent supplement to it.

 

[Renozokii]

What the fuck is with some of you guys coming full defense force?

MS and Sony are different players with different markets. The only thing in common they have is gaming - for one is the most important brand, for the other is a small piece of the pie. When you own Windows, Azure, Office and all that crap that actually brings billions to your company, why lean into VR that hard? I told you already, AR is where MS is betting for now, and it has uses for the professional world - they own most of the professional stack of tools, so that's their main goal.

Should they create yet another VR headset that works with Xbox and Windows when they already have other companies there and can easily do a partnership with one of them to bring it to Xbox? Or just spends millions on R&D and become just another one, because of the high cost of entrance in this space for the average consumer?

Windows is open, it allows third parties to develop freely for the biggest platform in the world. Only recently Satya stated that Xbox is import for MS, but don't be fooled to think it's on the same level as Windows or Azure.

Will they create one? Maybe. In fact we might see one in the next few years, but god damn at your hate for MS. I don't give a fuck about MS, I'm just kind of open minded and don't think of them as a gaming company (because they're not). You being on the gaming side of the forum means jack shit.


Yeah, it's so trash that we've been actively using it in hospitals and doctors fucking love it because it helps them a lot.

But whatever floats your boat.

>What the fuck is with some of you guys coming full defense force?

lol one console is getting vr one isn’t. Here you have a guy making a mass defense post for a massive corporation standing to spend less money by not investing as if he’s a major stakeholder in the company. That guy then says I’m the defense force for saying it sucks for people with Xbox’s to not be able get vr. Hmm

>MS and Sony are different players with different markets. The only thing in common they have is gaming - for one is the most important brand, for the other is a small piece of the pie. When you own Windows, Azure, Office and all that crap that actually brings billions to your company, why lean into VR that hard? I told you already, AR is where MS is betting for now, and it has uses for the professional world - they own most of the professional stack of tools, so that's their main goal.

because I am the fucking consumer. I don’t own
hundreds of Microsoft’s stocks. Them making the most money possible in the easiest ways do not benefit me or any other of their consumers. They don’t have to build the damn headset. They can just partner with htc or Facebook for their headsets for fucks same and it’s a win win. I already see the future if vr takes off in a massive way. Microsoft realizes none of their studios can make a great vr game or keep up in that market, so they throw money at good vr devs or even just buy em outright to make them exclusive. Magically massive portions of the gaming community have no access to great vr games because as usual, the Xbox division of Microsoft sucks at the creative side of things

>Should they create yet another VR headset that works with Xbox and Windows when they already have other companies there and can easily do a partnership with one of them to bring it to Xbox? Or just spends millions on R&D and become just another one, because of the high cost of entrance in this space for the average consumer?

Where’s the vr headset via partnership then? Which of their devs are on a vr project?

>Windows is open, it allows third parties to develop freely for the biggest platform in the world. Only recently Satya stated that Xbox is import for MS, but don't be fooled to think it's on the same level as Windows or Azure.

why the fuck should any of this matter to gamers, who are consumers in essence, at all?

“Little Timmy with an Xbox can’t ask for a vr headset for Christmas after doing great at school and being allowed a more expensive Christmas present because well you see Microsoft is actually huge and investing in new tech in gaming early off actually won’t make them that much more money or any at all..... and anyway that’s how much they make off windows a year.... yea that’s a lot from azure.... Satya has been a great leader he really... but azure has actually been adopted in a big way so it’s taking off really.. I never liked macOS and a lot agree with me that’s why windows is the only real choice... and on and on.”

>Will they create one? Maybe. In fact we might see one in the next few years, but god damn at your hate for MS. I don't give a fuck about MS, I'm just kind of open minded and don't think of them as a gaming company (because they're not). You being on the gaming side of the forum means jack shit.

means jack shit? It means I’m on a forum where I can point out one gaming console maker having 0 options for vr to date and it be obvious I’m saying that from the perspective of a game industry consumer. And then you have a guy taking about the overarching workings of Microsoft as a business. It sucks for Xbox gamers not having a vr headset they can use because it’s usually not Xbox owners that also have a fairly high powered pc. It’s a simple statement. And I praise Sony for investing in an exciting very early stage market in gaming because next year I’ll have a dope new accessory to buy and show my girl and friends that have never had a chance to try vr and see what it’s about. There will also be good games there with it that weren’t exclusively money hatted. It’s a simple perspective. I don’t give a shit about what’s best for Sony or Microsoft as companies to make the most money possible. The reason I prefer playstation making money for example, is because they use that money to take chances on shit like a mature soft reboot of gow that became my favorite game off all time, or a robo Dino hunting simulator with a crazy ass storyline. Microsoft takes the money Xbox makes, which is actually next to nothing in profit, and then just adds a bunch of their own money to let them buy a shit load of studios and even a publisher whose games I will no longer be able to play on my preferred console.

I don’t understand why you think my feelings in situations like this have to first go through an American capitalism filter.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

The OP knows that 85% of lurkers only read the thread title. These that attack VR, it's simply a case of people fearing change.

 

[Wonko_C]

There have been various different versions of flying cars made. There's enthusiasts who continue to design them even today.

But the reality of it is that flying cars will never replace the standard ground based ones we know of today. It's just too dangerous. DWI is a pretty common occurrence that causes plenty of accidents as is. Now imagine that happening in the skies everywhere. Imagine the result of a single flying car going through someones roof. How popular will flying cars be when a drunk person loses control and ends up plowing into the stands of a high school football game? Think about all the cars you've driven past broke down on the side of the road. What happens to flying cars when they break down?

The majority of people figured out long ago that flying cars like in Back to the future 2 wasn't gonna be a thing, and moved on. Of course there are those who either enjoy fiddling with the concept as a hobby, or those who simply fail to see the realistic limitations as they exist, that still remain interested in it. But the notion that it's the way of the future was played out long ago.

Same with VR.

I see, you meant literal cars with wheels and all that can also fly. Yeah we're probably centuries away from getting there when we find a way to break the laws of gravity somehow. (A la F-Zero)

What I see more feasible in the near-future are some of those concept renders shown recently, self-driving and limited transportation. Even Uber is working on some of that.

I'll refrain from deviating away from the topic further.

 

[Haggard]

and VR allow greater experiences. It is an expansion of what flat screen gaming had to offer. Where else are we going to spend all that horsepower?

Are you kidding?

We´re at least another ~2 decades away from photorelistic graphics that aren`t just setdressing in classic games and VR still suffers from all of its inherent flaws with no solution in sight.
VR and AR will get more and more important for industry solutions but in gaming we`re already pretty much at a dead end if we`re not suddenly getting some kind of Brain-link technology or at least low cost omnidirectional treadmills built into our living room floors to solve at least the awkward disconnected movement.

 

[Gonpachiro Kamaboko]

They could make themselves the go-to VR system with a price point that will likely be under 1k for the entire setup. Seems kinda smart if it works out for them in the end.

 

[BGs]

Because is the future.

 

[Derktron]

6 pages and I have to say that these are pretty interesting comments, but I have to admit, I'm glad Sony is investing in VR gaming. It breaks off from the conventional gaming experience that we currently have. I just wish Microsoft would do the same, I mean Nintendo sort of did it with their cardboard VR games.

 

[Romulus]

The reality is, after five years of being a major product market, VR is on its way to being a niche market

The reality is 5 years ago, all the PCVR devices combined didn't equal 1 million sales. Quest 2 is doing that in a month. Even as a VR fan, I've always said that VR will probably end up a sustainable niche with solid software attach rate. I dont believe that anymore. Quest 2 didn't 5x the sales of its predecessor in the same launch window. I'll tell you why. Price and value. PCVR and PCVR have never hit both of those. For the mass market you need both. Quest doesn't even have the software either and it's doing those numbers. If it gets the software and continues its price point? Mainstream.
Psvr2 will simply reap the rewards from a popular genre at that point, more people trying VR is a great thing because in my experience even in 2021 year no has tried good VR still and it's a gamechanger.

 

[namekuseijin]

It's so obvious reading the arguments from people who haven't used high-end VR. You can instantly tell their knowledge of VR is based on youtube videos. Hint: it barely conveys a single percentage of the actual experience.

precisely. You can't tell the impact of 3D from 2D media. Flatlanders are completely missing the scale of their game worlds, all flattened and small in their screens. You play Skyrim or NMS in VR and you really understand the meaning of "epic".

even a game that is all about climbing to great heights is thrilling in VR thanks to real world scale, 3D depth and sense of presence, of clinging to life with your hands. that's why Crytek is bringing this rather than another VR shooter:



direct interaction with the game world, presence and scale are what turn VR so much more exciting than anything happening in the confines of a 2D screen. 97% of core gamers are still to experience this thrill before saying VR is dead or any such nonsense...

 

[namekuseijin]

Can you play games like Half Life Alyx on a Oculus Quest 2 without a PC that can run it?

not, but you can play 90% of the most popular VR games

can you play Alyx without a pc or a VR headset? No.

can other headsets play anything at all without a pc or console? No.

Quest is entirely on a category of its own.

The only problem is the Facebook focus on social and fitness mini games and experiences. And that only compounds the problem that hardcore gamer audiences sees it as a gimmick for mini games, with fair reason.

Yet I value every old (and better) games that ever transitioned to VR. Skyrim, Minecraft, Doom, Borderlands, NMS and others may not be your cup of tea, but they're to someone else and they helped bring many to VR and see what we've been missing all these years pushing buttons in front of a tv...

 

[Rudius]

I'm glad they ARE investing in VR. It is just a better way to experience games in my opinion, even considering the first generation clunkyness. There are games I would never play in flat, but are fun in VR, due to the immersion and controls. Gun Club in flat with joysticks would be nothing, but in VR I have the guns on my hands, in the correct size, I can really aim, reload etc.

The next PSVR will be much better, more refined, easier to use, with bespoke controlers and more power to use. Can't wait!

 

[namekuseijin]

you can be afraid to try when you're thinking of charging customers as much $$ for a VR headset as the brand new console it plays on, especially this being their second headset in five years following on a system with decent but perhaps no world-igniting software and essentially a total drop of 1st Party* software development after 2019.

here's someone who seems to really have been a hostage to PS Cam and psvr cables and it shows. Are you whiny, dude!

Sony is a long time player in the games industry and their play style is this: building partnerships to bring great games to their platform and in between get some studios of their own to add games that test new waters, push their hardware, brings in some exclusive content shine. But they don't need first party when they're a market leader, they only need a steady stream of great content and a few exclusivity deals.

Even as underperformant as first generation of consumer VR has been for the past 5 years - because different from TVs or smartphones it's very tough selling something you can't convey from ads or others playing, you need to experience for yourself - it still consistently brought great content to psvr every damn year. It was never abandoned as pcvr folks or Oculus shills or VR haters in general seem to imply.

On the contrary, thanks to Sony partnerships, these games were brought into VR to drive psvr sales every year: Rez Infinite, Battlezone, Driveclub, Batman Arkham, Psychonauts, RE7, Dirt Rally, Skyrim, No Heroes Allowed, Wipeout, Borderlands 2, GT Sport, NMS, FNAF, The Room, Ironman, Dreams, Star Wars Squadrons, Hitman 3, Doom 3 etc. I speak strictly of known flat franchises because these are names flatlanders know. Some of the best and most popular VR titles on pc or Quest got ported to psvr.

so, psvr is way more than Astro Bot, Blood and Truth and other exclusives thanks to that massive support. Just like PlayStation consoles. Don't rush Insomniac, they need some vacations. Their VR titles will still grace psvr2.

Btw, TVs didn't start selling in the 60s, but in the 30s. Yes, it took a long while until it took off, and that was with something people could just gather around in the street and immediately see what it was about...

 

[Calverz]

Quest 2 sales and new PC initiative

 

[Rudius]

here's someone who seems to really have been a hostage to PS Cam and psvr cables and it shows. Are you whiny, dude!

Sony is a long time player in the games industry and their play style is this: building partnerships to bring great games to their platform and in between get some studios of their own to add games that test new waters, push their hardware, brings in some exclusive content shine. But they don't need first party when they're a market leader, they only need a steady stream of great content and a few exclusivity deals.

Even as underperformant as first generation of consumer VR has been for the past 5 years - because different from TVs or smartphones it's very tough selling something you can't convey from ads or others playing, you need to experience for yourself - it still consistently brought great content to psvr every damn year. It was never abandoned as pcvr folks or Oculus shills or VR haters in general seem to imply.

On the contrary, thanks to Sony partnerships, these games were brought into VR to drive psvr sales every year: Rez Infinite, Battlezone, Driveclub, Batman Arkham, Psychonauts, RE7, Dirt Rally, Skyrim, No Heroes Allowed, Wipeout, Borderlands 2, GT Sport, NMS, FNAF, The Room, Ironman, Dreams, Star Wars Squadrons, Hitman 3, Doom 3 etc. I speak strictly of known flat franchises because these are names flatlanders know. Some of the best and most popular VR titles on pc or Quest got ported to psvr.

so, psvr is way more than Astro Bot, Blood and Truth and other exclusives thanks to that massive support. Just like PlayStation consoles. Don't rush Insomniac, they need some vacations. Their VR titles will still grace psvr2.

Btw, TVs didn't start selling in the 60s, but in the 30s. Yes, it took a long while until it took off, and that was with something people could just gather around in the street and immediately see what it was about...

This you say about the good support PSVR had is very true. Systems that sold much more than it did, like the Vita and WiiU (~15m) did not receive this amount games late in their life. We are in the fifth year of PSVR, recently got important releases (Squadrons, Minecraft, Hitman) and are still getting announcements of new exclusive games.

 

[CrustyBritches]

6 pages and I have to say that these are pretty interesting comments, but I have to admit, I'm glad Sony is investing in VR gaming. It breaks off from the conventional gaming experience that we currently have. I just wish Microsoft would do the same, I mean Nintendo sort of did it with their cardboard VR games.

FS2020 has official VR support and it's one of the more impressive VR experiences I've tried, it just crushes all but the most powerful hardware. If anything, I'd expect MS to just have some approved headsets for Xbox and call it a day. They also collaborated on Reverb G2 with HP and Valve, have the WMR(Windows Mixed Reality) platform, and recently showed their updated Mesh software for virtual work spaces.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

VR is going to be much bigger than people think, like several times the console industry big. It's a medium with inherent mass appeal, and every current barriers stopping mass adoption will be fixed. I know this as someone who has seen the fixes cooking in R&D. Name a barrier and I can point you to an answer.

The world has hit a tipping point where remote services are going to stick indefinitely, likely as a hybrid model. This means work, school, and events will rely a lot more on remote than they have in the past, and every reason people dislike remote today gets fixed with VR. We're absolutely going to see lots of people go to VR schools, work, and events in the next 10 years. VR is the only technology that can connect people across distances, and distance is always a large limiter in life.

VR is not only a new medium, it's every medium. VR is not only every medium, it's a computing platform, which will be a viable replacement for physical screens before long.

Why are these seemingly non-gaming usecases relevant in this thread? Because it's what drives future adoption, and gamers will make good use of it.

• Instead of voice chat in discord, many people will instead be in VR chatrooms with their friends.
• Instead of watching E3/Gamescom/Games Award streams, people will attend a 1:1 virtual recreation of the event with actual booths, cosplay, and demos.
• VTubers are already getting popular and VR is the next step in this direction, giving everyone access to Hollywood level mocap in the long-term.
• Twitch streamers will be able to meet and hangout with fans in a way that mimics real life.

The games that the masses play are largely meant for VR. Multiplayer games are a lot more popular than singleplayer games because people like to play with their friends, and VR is the next step in connecting people together online. Games like Roblox and Fortnite are no longer games, but social platforms hosting events and concerts with tens of millions of attendees - something every attendee would want to experience in VR.

The most popular singleplayer games are also meant for VR. Cyberpunk, God of War, Red Dead Redemption, GTA, Animal Crossing, Call of Duty, Mario, Last of Us - all would gain so much from VR.

The most iconic universes are begging to be explored in VR. Who wouldn't want to explore Middle Earth, Star Wars, Mass Effect, and Hogwarts as if you are right there?

VR's future is brighter than you could imagine.

 

[Reality Czar]

So they sold 5 million units and you are asking why they are investing?

— Given that range, Lang applies a $400 average for the first 2.5 million units sold, and a $300 average for the subsequent 2.5 million.
— This leads to the estimate that Sony has generated about $1.75 billion from PSVR hardware.
https://arinsider.co/2020/08/17/has-psvr-reached-2-5b-lifetime-revenue/#:~:text=—%20This%20leads%20to%20the%20estimate,%241.75%20billion%20from%20PSVR%20hardware.&text=—%20Moving%20on%20to%20software%2C%20Sony,per%20headset%20at%20the%20time.

As of last year they generated around $1.75 billion dollars from the first attempt at VR, and OP is asking why they are investing?

To make money. Companies like to make money. This is pretty simple .

 

[Inanilmaz]

Need me some good team deathmatch ego shooter, with aim controller support , alone for this I would buy psvr2. Preferably call of duty because the name alone would sell more than others.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So they sold 5 million units and you are asking why they are investing?



As of last year they generated around $1.75 billion dollars from the first attempt at VR, and OP is asking why they are investing?

To make money. Companies like to make money. This is pretty simple .

Now do PlayStation Vita hardware.

 

[namekuseijin]

this was very fun to watch the lame arguments and their destruction



I guess I'm a boomer btw, but one that gave a chance to VR. I suspect many early VR enthusiasts are too, because we've been waiting for it since 80s Tron and because we have jobs and some money to spare on unproven tech.

 

[MagnesG]

They didn't invest that heavily on software side, so far we only Astrobot VR from them which is good but such a short game.

So for me didn't invest shit basically when nothing was nurtured.

 

[namekuseijin]

They didn't invest that heavily on software side, so far we only Astrobot VR from them which is good but such a short game.

you know, I have this listing here always at hand for whenever clueless people like you come up with such low effort BS arguments about Sony not investing in VR:

psvr exclusives (so far):

Astro Bot
Blood and Truth
Resident Evil 7
Hitman 3
Firewall: Zero Hour
Farpoint
Wipeout Omega Collection
RIGS
Starblood Arena
Driveclub VR
Iron-man VR
Bravo Team
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood
Stardust Odyssey
Here they Lie
Everybody's Golf VR
Tiny Trax
Dreams
Golem
Bound
Déraciné
No Heroes Allowed!
Statik
Table of Tales: The Crooked Crown
Fracked
Doom 3
VR Worlds (6 minigames)
Playroom VR (6 minigames)
The Last Guardian VR (demo)
GTS (driving mode)
Ace Combat 7 (3 missions)


made to sell psvr, later ported to other systems:

Psychonauts The Rhombus of Truth
Apex Construct
Battlezone
Batman Arkham VR
TES V: Skyrim VR
Borderlands 2
No Man's Sky
Tetris Effect
Rez Infinite
The Persistence
Paper Beast
Zone of the Enders MARS
Moss
Ghost Giant
Mini Motor Racing X
Megalith
Bow to Blood
Salary Man Escape
Evasion
Falcon Age
FNAF
The Room VR
Dirt Rally 1
Star Wars Squadrons

I'm not even listing here all the VR games ported to psvr from pc.

so go into a shower and cry harder.

 

[CamHostage]

Sony is a long time player in the games industry and their play style is this: building partnerships to bring great games to their platform and in between get some studios of their own to add games that test new waters, push their hardware, brings in some exclusive content shine. But they don't need first party when they're a market leader, they only need a steady stream of great content and a few exclusivity deals...

On the contrary, thanks to Sony partnerships, these games were brought into VR to drive psvr sales every year: Rez Infinite, Battlezone, Driveclub, Batman Arkham, Psychonauts, RE7, Dirt Rally, Skyrim, No Heroes Allowed, Wipeout, Borderlands 2, GT Sport, NMS, FNAF, The Room, Ironman, Dreams, Star Wars Squadrons, Hitman 3, Doom 3 etc...

Oh, the partnerships, the partnerships! Yes, Sony, doesn't need to produce software for its own platform, because they have huge partnerships. Huge, HUGE names like Squanch Games, Beat Games, and First Contact Entertainment! Also, fruitful partnerships that bring hot titles like Borderlands 2 and Doom 3 to PSVR, as well as mainstream blockbusters like Hitman 3 and Star Wars Squadrons as bonus VR features for PS4 (...sorry PS5, VR features not included, but you can downgrade your copy, PS4 graphics are good enough, right?) Amazing partnerships that bring hit games like Vader Immortal: A Star Wars VR Series to PSVR (one year after launching on other VR platforms.)

Who needs God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank, Spider-Man, Bloodborne, Horizon, LittleBigPlanet, MLB The Show, or any of Sony's mainline franchises, when you've got the riches of the VR universe being delivered by partners banging down Sony's door to deliver their best products?

(*BTW, I like a lot of these VR studios, and we can also thrown in NDreams and 17BIT and Camouflaj and Vertigo Games and a lot of these other teams exploring VR. But even if Sony were to champion itself as having partnered with the best in the VR biz, those are far from household names.)

I speak strictly of known flat franchises because these are names flatlanders know. Some of the best and most popular VR titles on pc or Quest got ported to psvr.

so, psvr is way more than Astro Bot, Blood and Truth and other exclusives thanks to that massive support. Just like PlayStation consoles.

The best and most popular VR titles, that's testable. We can look at the sales charts for VR devices, and we should be able to see the best and most popular (well, some of) matching up with PSVR's release list, because Sony has these great partnerships that are bringing the best and most popular games to its platform. Let's stop arguing semantics, we can actually look at what the Top Sellers are on Steam and Oculus:

Steam Search

store.steampowered.com

Browse Top selling VR Games on Meta Quest

Your live update of top sellers on Meta Quest.

www.oculus.com

Five of the top 20 Steam games (Subnautica and Elite Dangerous are on PS4 but I believe don't have the VR mode). Nine of the most popular Oculus titles (including the top 2!) Lots and lots missing as you drill down (none of the CryEngine games, no Medal of Honor ir SW Galaxy's Edge, no Onward or Phasmophobia, obviously no Population One or Half-Life Alyx) but also a fair number that I recognize from the PSVR store. Somebody else can do the math on the batting average Sony has for contracting the best and most popular games being brought over to the PSVR platform, it looks to be less than half of the biggest sellers in VR in either market but that still qualifies as "some of".

Compare that to non-VR titles on the Steam chart, though, and PlayStation's partnerships are nearly 1:1 all the way down the Top Sellers. So, at the very least, we can agree that Sony's partners team has got some work cut out for them.

Steam Search

store.steampowered.com

 

[namekuseijin]

Oh, the partnerships, the partnerships! Yes, Sony, doesn't need to produce software for its own platform, because they have huge partnerships. Huge, HUGE names like Squanch Games, Beat Games, and First Contact Entertainment! Also, fruitful partnerships that bring hot titles like Borderlands 2 and Doom 3 to PSVR, as well as mainstream blockbusters like Hitman 3 and Star Wars Squadrons as bonus VR features for PS4 (...sorry PS5, VR features not included, but you can downgrade your copy, PS4 graphics are good enough, right?) Amazing partnerships that bring hit games like Vader Immortal: A Star Wars VR Series to PSVR (one year after launching on other VR platforms.)

Who needs God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank, Spider-Man, Bloodborne, Horizon, LittleBigPlanet, MLB The Show, or any of Sony's mainline franchises, when you've got the riches of the VR universe being delivered by partners banging down Sony's door to deliver their best products?



The best and most popular VR titles, you say. OK, so if we were to look at the sales charts for VR devices, we would see the best and most popular (well, some of) matching up with PSVR's release list, because Sony has these great partnerships that are bringing the best and most popular games to its platform. Luckily, we don't have to argue semantics, we can actually look at what the Top Sellers are on Steam and Oculus:

Steam Search

store.steampowered.com

Browse Top selling VR Games on Meta Quest

Your live update of top sellers on Meta Quest.

www.oculus.com

graphicz, graphicz graphicz

let me keep playing remasters, remakes and sequels of rehashed old 90s ideas while sitting pushing buttons in front of a tv with ever more pixels!

I don't give a fuck to graphics race anymore. Look around, kids are crazy about blocky minicrap, 8-bit look alikes, they don't give a fuck either.

but being inside a game world, interacting with game weapons, with favorite characters directly? Yeah, bring it on, that has a future, including for old games running very smooth instead of cinematic 24fps graphic whoring collect-a-ton raytraced woking sims with soy scripts...

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

VR is going to be much bigger than people think, like several times the console industry big. It's a medium with inherent mass appeal, and every current barriers stopping mass adoption will be fixed. I know this as someone who has seen the fixes cooking in R&D. Name a barrier and I can point you to an answer.

Without going over the entirety of your post, I'll just focus on your first paragraph.

This is nothing more than a group of predictions. You end it by attempting to give your predictions authority over others, but stop short of providing any of those "answers", or any credentials that give you access to R&D that the general public doesn't.

Furthermore, at this point there is absolutely nothing that supports your predictions. Why will it become bigger than consoles? Where is the mass appeal? The focus here is being placed on the wrong factors in my opinion. You're assuming that the masses have lined up to use VR, but simply can't overcome the barriers, but that they are now fixed. That's not the case though. The masses haven't lined up to buy VR. They haven't shown mass appeal. Removing or fixing barriers won't matter if the masses don't want to go there in the first place.

Look at the mediums you referenced as amusement parks. Consoles are wildly popular. There'd have to be pretty big barriers to keep people out. Otherwise the crowds would simply storm over/around them. As they are, there are relatively few barriers. PC's are also widely popular. However, there are some barriers in place, such as price and complexity. But due to having more and higher performing rides, people lined up at the entrance have found ways to get past them regardless.

At amusement park VR however... There's people out front yelling to everyone that passes about how it's better, and that barriers will be removed. But what good does that do when the parking lot is completely empty ala National lampoon's Family Vacation?

 

[namekuseijin]

National lampoon's Family Vacation?

this guy is from the 80s too

Where is the mass appeal?

wear a headset and you'll quickly discover, fellow boomer

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

graphicz, graphicz graphicz

let me keep playing remasters, remakes and sequels of rehashed old 90s ideas while sitting pushing buttons in front of a tv with ever more pixels!

I don't give a fuck to graphics race anymore. Look around, kids are crazy about blocky minicrap, 8-bit look alikes, they don't give a fuck either.

but being inside a game world, interacting with game weapons, with favorite characters directly? Yeah, bring it on, that has a future, including for old games running very smooth instead of cinematic 24fps graphic whoring collect-a-ton raytraced woking sims with soy scripts...

I hope you choose to not push any further. You promoted an narrative and threw insults while doing so. You were then soundly defeated by someone who's facts and logic were greater than your own.

So you reply with a couple of fucks not given, and a wishlist. Good job buddy. Now take your L and cry in the corner. Your VR headset is plenty big enough to hide those tears.

 

[namekuseijin]

The best and most popular VR titles, you say. OK, so if we were to look at the sales charts for VR devices, we would see the best and most popular (well, some of) matching up with PSVR's release list, because Sony has these great partnerships that are bringing the best and most popular games to its platform. Luckily, we don't have to argue semantics, we can actually look at what the Top Sellers are on Steam and Oculus:

Steam Search

store.steampowered.com

Browse Top selling VR Games on Meta Quest

Your live update of top sellers on Meta Quest.

www.oculus.com

15 out of those 24 Oculus games and experiences are on psvr and in fact some were born there.

top sellers on steam is not a great measure of popularity for old and forgotten VR titles and PS4 certainly can't handle most modern stuff in the top sales - hell, MSFS barely runs in VR at all on top gpu - so that comparison is moot.

anyway, you're wrong. You're fighting the future, it's like fighting windmills...

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

wear a headset and you'll quickly discover, fellow boomer

I don't think boomer means what you think it does.
As to your point. I've played VR several times. It can be fun, but not in the same way as consoles or PC. That's not a knock on VR, so don't take it that way. I'm just saying the experiences vary to such an extent that they're not as comparable as many think they are. I believe VR can certainly be successful to a more niche market. And maybe over time it would expand from that.
But that doesn't address your point regarding mass appeal. Your suggesting there is mass appeal, when nothing of the sort has suggested that.

 

[MagnesG]

you know, I have this listing here always at hand for whenever clueless people like you come up with such low effort BS arguments about Sony not investing in VR:

psvr exclusives (so far):

Astro Bot
Blood and Truth
Resident Evil 7
Hitman 3
Firewall: Zero Hour
Farpoint
Wipeout Omega Collection
RIGS
Starblood Arena
Driveclub VR
Iron-man VR
Bravo Team
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood
Stardust Odyssey
Here they Lie
Everybody's Golf VR
Tiny Trax
Dreams
Golem
Bound
Déraciné
No Heroes Allowed!
Statik
Table of Tales: The Crooked Crown
Fracked
Doom 3
VR Worlds (6 minigames)
Playroom VR (6 minigames)
The Last Guardian VR (demo)
GTS (driving mode)
Ace Combat 7 (3 missions)


made to sell psvr, later ported to other systems:

Psychonauts The Rhombus of Truth
Apex Construct
Battlezone
Batman Arkham VR
TES V: Skyrim VR
Borderlands 2
No Man's Sky
Tetris Effect
Rez Infinite
The Persistence
Paper Beast
Zone of the Enders MARS
Moss
Ghost Giant
Mini Motor Racing X
Megalith
Bow to Blood
Salary Man Escape
Evasion
Falcon Age
FNAF
The Room VR
Dirt Rally 1
Star Wars Squadrons

I'm not even listing here all the VR games ported to psvr from pc.

so go into a shower and cry harder.

Lol I'll give you a couple of them I didn't know have VR like Dreams but most of them are not from Sony isn't? They didn't go all in from their devs investment, is there anything AAA from Sony in VR that I'm not aware of?

No? Then don't be surprised if the peripherals doesn't attract much attention from the mainstream. So far we only have Half Life: Alyx as the headlines for VR originals, and nothing from Sony. VR is not that attractive right now because of that, not much full on investment.