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[ClayKavalier]

What wildfire fails (refuses?) to recognize again and again is where Kimmel immediately laid the blame for the incident. Did he question the behind-the-scenes people who could be any race or age? Did he wait to hear the details of who had done what wrong?

No, he went straight for old Warren Beatty. In that moment of turmoil and and confusion he really let his true colors show. "What did you do!!!" he bellowed, as the innocent Beatty cowered before him. We can only hope he'll lose his career now that he has publicly revealed his agist beliefs. And the lack of attention he gave to the black cast and crew of Moonlight pales in comparison of his open contempt of this old white man.

 

[greatestjediever]

For those just joining us in relitigating the Oscars:

The funny thing is it was Chazelle's reps who asked for Jenkins to share the article and cover with him. The two director's really do seem to like each other, as do the camps from both films.

 

[Angelus Errare]

For those just joining us in relitigating the Oscars:

I stand corrected. Shocked he won tbh

 

[Count Dookkake]

The variety cover is the most insulting thing IMO

Oh dear.

 

[ClayKavalier]

I stand corrected. Shocked he won tbh

You're the second person to stand corrected in the thread so far. You'd think there's plenty of stuff to be offended by in the world without getting upset over a magazine tradition you know nothing about, but to each their own.

 

[Angelus Errare]

You're the second person to stand corrected in the thread so far. You'd think there's plenty of stuff to be offended by in the world without getting upset over a magazine tradition you know nothing about, but to each their own.

Unlike you I can be offended at multiple things at once, it's a racial bonus trait.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You're the second person to stand corrected in the thread so far. You'd think there's plenty of stuff to be offended by in the world without getting upset over a magazine tradition you know nothing about, but to each their own.

And yet this thread is full of folks accusing the article of arguing it was a conspiracy (which the article was not).

How many of them have stood corrected?

 

[Dominator]

Kind of alarmed by some posts in this thread... Kimmel not giving props to the winner and instead consoling the loser (which is what we are conditioned in America to do, basically) is racism on his part?

What?

 

[gutter_trash]

Kimmel was more dumbfounded about the whole situation, piling on him is like blaming the wrong guy. Blame the Matt Deamon look alike dude.


LOL, when he said that he will never be offered to host an award show again.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

He said in no uncertain terms LLL should keep the trophy.

Well it must have been uncertain if you didn't realize it was a joke and actually thought, even for a second, that he honestly thought or meant it seriously

 

[Kinyou]

Well it must have been uncertain if you didn't realize it was a joke and actually thought, even for a second, that he honestly thought he meant it seriously

Didn't even notice that argument. How in the world would anyone not take that as a joke.

 

[ClayKavalier]

Unlike you I can be offended at multiple things at once, it's a racial bonus trait.

That's a cool trick. I can do you one better though, I'm able to hold off being offended at every perceived slight in order to figure out whether or not something is true. Neat, huh?

And yet this thread is full of folks accusing the article of arguing it was a conspiracy (which the article was not).

How many of them have stood corrected?

How many of them haven't? You're definitely not the first person to bring this up.

 

[wildfire]

Didn't even notice that argument. How in the world would anyone not take that as a joke.

You didn't notice it because I did acknowledge it as a joke. You're reading the quote without the context where I bring up why it's wrong even as a joke.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

It was an honest mistake.

The article make it seem like there's a hidden conspiracy to downplay Moonlight's achievement and that the mistake was done deliberately to do just that.

The article doesn't say that at all. Not even close. Your interpretation of the article kind of proves the point, though.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

I get that it's an honest mistake. I get that no one had any intent for this to happen. I really do.

I just wish America could acknowledge that black folks always seem to get screwed even though nobody means to screw them. We need to do something about that other than retreating into our feelings and feeling attacked whenever this is brought up and pointed out.

I mean we keep getting screwed. That doesn't leave much time to worry about your feelings.

 

[ISWThunder]

I get that it's an honest mistake. I get that no one had any intent for this to happen. I really do.

I just wish America could acknowledge that black folks always seem to get screwed even though nobody means to screw them. We need to do something about that other than retreating into our feelings and feeling attacked whenever this is brought up and pointed out.

I mean we keep getting screwed. That doesn't leave much time to worry about your feelings.

I completely agree that black people are way too often screwed here in the US and that racism is way too prevalent, especially in powerful people. But did Moonlight really get screwed here? It was a minor mistake that was quickly corrected and they were given time to speak and now are part of an Oscars moment that will live on forever. That's not really getting screwed, IMO.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

I completely agree that black people are way too often screwed here in the US and that racism is way too prevalent, especially in powerful people. But did Moonlight really get screwed here? It was a minor mistake that was quickly corrected and they were given time to speak and now are part of an Oscars moment that will live on forever. That's not really getting screwed, IMO.

It would only be minor if we had been winning awards forever. It's not. You have to recognize how big this moment is for us.

I wish that we had won so many awards that this was a blip on the radar. But surely you can see how different the context is.

 

[Pizza]

Tbh, it was the first time the oscars ever had a huge fuckup. I think the situation would have played out more or less the same if the tables had been turned

If I were in charge of the losing team, I'd have taken my gang back to the seats and tried to be good sports about the mess, but everyone involved seemed to be panicking and trying to save face

It blows that moonlight didn't get the moment in the spotlight it deserved, but I'm glad it wasn't the other way around. At least they won instead of getting defeat from the jaws of victory

And it really really really sucks that this fumble happened to people from a subculture of our country who have been having a surreally shitty time lately. Like, y'all could have really used the win

Shitty situation overall, honestly. Awards fuckups really suck, but this was the same sort of thing that happened to Steve Harvey and I don't feel like there was any ill intent

If there was though Jesus someone should have the answer for that because that's beyond fucked up

Edit: I didn't watch it myself, but if they did have time alone on stage to bask in it then it's pretty sick that it was a false loss st first

 

[ISWThunder]

It would only be minor if we had been winning awards forever. It's not. You have to recognize how big this moment is for us.

I wish that we had won so many awards that this was a blip on the radar. But surely you can see how different the context is.

The moment wasn't minor, but the accident was. It doesnt take away from Moonlight winning Best Picture. In fact, it has brought far more publicity onto the award.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

The moment wasn't minor, but the accident was. It doesnt take away from Moonlight winning Best Picture. In fact, it has brought far more publicity onto the award.

If it was so minor why do I hear nothing about moonlight but everything about the gaffe all over the media? This is a HUGE, HISTORIC fuckup.

 

[Alebrije]

I think that the mistake will make Moonlight more memorable as a winner of the Oscar than any other movie, I do not remember what movie won it 2-3 years ago. It could be robbed form its moment but won a longest life on viewers memory.

 

[ISWThunder]

If it was so minor why do I hear nothing about moonlight but everything about the gaffe all over the media? This is a HUGE, HISTORIC fuckup.

You've hear nothing about Moonlight since this weekend? Really? Most people didnt even know the movie existed until this weekend and now you'd be hard pressed to find people that don't know way more about it.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

You've hear nothing about Moonlight since this weekend? Really? Most people didnt even know the movie existed until this weekend and now you'd be hard pressed to find people that don't know way more about it.

Really. Unless you expect me to mistake coverage about the huge gaffe for coverage about the movie because that isn't the same thing.

 

[zeemumu]

What wildfire fails (refuses?) to recognize again and again is where Kimmel immediately laid the blame for the incident. Did he question the behind-the-scenes people who could be any race or age? Did he wait to hear the details of who had done what wrong?

No, he went straight for old Warren Beatty. In that moment of turmoil and and confusion he really let his true colors show. "What did you do!!!" he bellowed, as the innocent Beatty cowered before him. We can only hope he'll lose his career now that he has publicly revealed his agist beliefs. And the lack of attention he gave to the black cast and crew of Moonlight pales in comparison of his open contempt of this old white man.

I can't tell what's joking anymore

 

[ISWThunder]

Really. Unless you expect me to mistake coverage about the huge gaffe for coverage about the movie because that isn't the same thing.

Plenty of articles are about the incident, especially in the aftermath, but there are plenty about the actors and the movie as well. The incident is a very interesting story, but it's disingenuous to say that nobody is talking/writing about the movie as well.

Entertainment Weekly

NY Daily News

Vibe

LA Times

CBS

Access Hollywood

All articles from the last couple days and none centered around the incident.

 

[Kinyou]

You didn't notice it because I did acknowledge it as a joke. You're reading the quote without the context where I bring up why it's wrong even as a joke.

You said "even taken as a joke" as if there was any room to argue that it could be taken another way

 

[HellforLeather]

What wildfire fails (refuses?) to recognize again and again is where Kimmel immediately laid the blame for the incident. Did he question the behind-the-scenes people who could be any race or age? Did he wait to hear the details of who had done what wrong?

No, he went straight for old Warren Beatty. In that moment of turmoil and and confusion he really let his true colors show. "What did you do!!!" he bellowed, as the innocent Beatty cowered before him. We can only hope he'll lose his career now that he has publicly revealed his agist beliefs. And the lack of attention he gave to the black cast and crew of Moonlight pales in comparison of his open contempt of this old white man.

I can't tell what's joking anymore

Yep, with articles like this who knows anymore?

 

[nitekrawlwer]

Plenty of articles are about the incident, especially in the aftermath, but there are plenty about the actors and the movie as well. The incident is a very interesting story, but it's disingenuous to say that nobody is talking/writing about the movie as well.

Entertainment Weekly

NY Daily News

Vibe

LA Times

CBS

Access Hollywood

All articles from the last couple days and none centered around the incident.

That's wonderful but it's not what I'm seeing in television coverage.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Just go win another one. 2 peas in a bucket, fuck it.

 

[bengraven]

Do we need to use terms like "institutionalized racism" over a gaffe reading a card?

 

[Ether_Snake]

This was a big slight against Moonlight, and by La La Land made it even worst.

It was, supposedly coincidentally, an All Lives Matter moment forced on them.

 

[D4Danger]

Do we need to use terms like "institutionalized racism" over a gaffe reading a card?

Only if your hobby is being outraged

 

[ClayKavalier]

I can't tell what's joking anymore

I was kidding. Unless you want to hire me as a writer for your blog. Then I was being serious. Or ironic. Or whatever you tell readers when you're (we're? fingers crossed!) called out for writing clickbait.

 

[Valhelm]

Do we need to use terms like "institutionalized racism" over a gaffe reading a card?

I think the gaffe itself isn't problematic, but you can easily make the case for its immediate aftermath having racist undertones.

It's great that Moonlight won the Oscar, but it's problematic that almost all post-Oscar press has them share the spotlight with a whiter movie. Its filmmakers don't get the same uncontested attention that all other filmmakers get, and we ought to ask why.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

They certainly were robbed of their moment. Using that mistake as an account of racial privilege and institutional racism is so fucking stupid I'm surprised it was published. That mistake has nothing to do with a lack of care because actors in the film were black. Nor did the people called up to win expect to win because they were white. Are the people saying this has some good points reading the same thing as me?

 

[Alienfan]

Moonlight is one of those Oscar films that in all honesty, would have probably been forgotten about in a years time. It may have been robbed of its moment at a dumb awards ceremony, but more people know about Moonlight than there would have been if it had just won like every other Oscar film. A moment like this will probably never happen again, Moonlight goes down in Oscar history. It's a shit situation sure, but I'm struggling to feel more sympathy towards a team that in the end still won, verse a team that walked on stage and became a meme.

 

[robotzombie]

That's wonderful but it's not what I'm seeing in television coverage.

before anyone goes through the effort of collecting said television coverage evidence, can you just give us what your goal post moving excuse will be now so we can get that part over with?

 

[Blader]

I get that it's an honest mistake. I get that no one had any intent for this to happen. I really do.

I just wish America could acknowledge that black folks always seem to get screwed even though nobody means to screw them. We need to do something about that other than retreating into our feelings and feeling attacked whenever this is brought up and pointed out.

I mean we keep getting screwed. That doesn't leave much time to worry about your feelings.

That is not a good argument. Institutional racism, or racism period, is by design meant to screw over black people (or rather, non-whites in general). If people are being screwed by no design or intent of someone else, that's not racism, that's just cruel luck. And in this particular case, the cruel luck seemed to fall more on La La Land's shoulders, who were publicly embarrassed, than on Moonlight's. Which, you know, won best picture.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

That's wonderful but it's not what I'm seeing in television coverage.

The beauty of anecdotes is that they can be used to support whatever point you want and absolve you of the "ability" to provide proof.

Not to mention stop saying "we" and "us". I'm black too. You don't speak for me, and I definitely don't agree that this has anything to do with the larger issues of institutionalized racism or even diversity in Hollywood

 

[gutter_trash]

you cannot ask for better publicity than what Moonlight got.

now compare that to last year's

does anyone remember Spotlight? .... (crickets)

 

[R-User!]

So Moonlight was robbed of its 'moment' rather than La La Land who genuinely thought they won the award before it was given to moonlight. Ok.

Yeah. In a way they were both robbed: LLL robbed of the ending of their "win" and of course the actual win itself, and Moonlight robbed of the beginning of their win as well as the normal audience reaction that instead went to LLL.

A shitty situation all around, but less so for Moonlight at the end of the day because they're still holding the statuette as we type.

But I get that someone would feel robbed of their normal usual win experience. I would. It would have felt like an afterthought. Like it didn't really happen even though it did. It would taint it for sure but looking glass half full, for the most part, when I'd look over at the glimmering Oscar on the night stand/mantle, I'd KNOW that I'd done it.

But you wouldn't be able to totally separate the lackluster moment from your memory associated with the Oscar either.

Again, a shitty experience all around.

 

[ISWThunder]

Yeah. In a way they were both robbed: LLL robbed of the ending of their "win" and of course the actual win itself, and Moonlight robbed of the beginning of their win as well as the normal audience reaction that instead went to LLL.

A shitty situation all around, but less so for Moonlight at the end of the day because they're still holding the statuette as we type.

But I get that someone would feel robbed of their normal usual win experience. I would. It would have felt like an afterthought. Like it didn't really happen even though it did. It would taint it for sure but looking glass half full, for the most part, when I'd look over at the glimmering Oscar on the night stand/mantle, I'd KNOW that I'd done it.

But you wouldn't be able to totally separate the lackluster moment from your memory associated with the Oscar either.

Again, a shitty experience all around.

Not necessarily though. Barry Jenkins (at least publicly) has said the exact opposite.

”It's messy, but it's kind of gorgeous," said Jenkins. ”You have these two groups of people who came together for a second. There's a picture with me hugging Jordan [Horowitz, a producer on La La Land], and Adele [Romanski, producer of Moonlight] has her arm on his shoulder. That's what the moment was."

It still sucks, but it doesnt have to overshadow the accomplishment unless you let it.

 

[R-User!]

Not necessarily though. Barry Jenkins (at least publicly) has said the exact opposite.

“It’s messy, but it’s kind of gorgeous,” said Jenkins. “You have these two groups of people who came together for a second. There’s a picture with me hugging Jordan [Horowitz, a producer on La La Land], and Adele [Romanski, producer of Moonlight] has her arm on his shoulder. That’s what the moment was.”

It still sucks, but it doesnt have to overshadow the accomplishment unless you let it.

I agree. Glass half full I'd be!

 

[nitekrawlwer]

The beauty of anecdotes is that they can be used to support whatever point you want and absolve you of the "ability" to provide proof.

Not to mention stop saying "we" and "us". I'm black too. You don't speak for me, and I definitely don't agree that this has anything to do with the larger issues of institutionalized racism or even diversity in Hollywood

You're right. I dont and I'll make sure not to do so in the future. Pardon me.

That is not a good argument. Institutional racism, or racism period, is by design meant to screw over black people (or rather, non-whites in general). If people are being screwed by no design or intent of someone else, that's not racism, that's just cruel luck. And in this particular case, the cruel luck seemed to fall more on La La Land's shoulders, who were publicly embarrassed, than on Moonlight's. Which, you know, won best picture.

It isn't an argument. It's a wish. I don't know how you can argue with that. We'll just have to feel differently about where the cruel luck fell. I mean this gaffe didn't overshadow any of them winning their award.

before anyone goes through the effort of collecting said television coverage evidence, can you just give us what your goal post moving excuse will be now so we can get that part over with?

I shouldn't have said all over the media. It was my mistake and branding my experience all over everyone else's just like i did in the above post I responded to and I apologize. What I should have said is the media that I have seen. Pardon me. I don't mean to move the goal posts but say what I meant to say but was too emotional to capture. I'll try do better at that going forward.

I was not sarcastic in thanking you for giving me that media ISTWThunder. It's not what I've seen. Until your post I've yet to read a post oscar article outside of the controversy. It's probably because I'm lazy and mostly read what google gives me instead of searching for articles or watch the wrong television footage. Either way that doesn't excuse the way I framed my argument. Nor the tone of my words and I would like to apologize and thank you for taking the time to broaden my horizons. Hopefully seeing more content like this will help me feel differently about if their moment is being overshadowed.

Now that I'm back home I took the time to simply google "moonlight" it myself with the date tools set as for the past week and once from 2/26 to today. Either way the first page in both cases was 50/50 split between coverage of moonlight and coverage of the gaffe of moonlight. The second page was about 40/60. The third page was a huge win for the gaffe with 70 to percent of the articles listed being about the gaffe. It seemed to fluctuate between those ratios for at least 7 pages when I got a little tired. So while I do appreciate the positive articles(they didn't all show up in my google) I'm not quite sure my first impression was wrong. I am still very sorry in how I chose to present it though.

 

[Staccat0]

Well based on Korey's post above yours Kimmel had more time to process the situations and still continued to only engage the LLL team.


Explain why Kimmel had empathy only for the La La Land team and not for both?

Because one had their dreams crushed and were at serious risk of throwing a tantrum and ruining the show. The other got the news of a lifetime and has so far not really expressed that they were terribly upset.

 

[ClayKavalier]

Not necessarily though. Barry Jenkins (at least publicly) has said the exact opposite.

“It’s messy, but it’s kind of gorgeous,” said Jenkins. “You have these two groups of people who came together for a second. There’s a picture with me hugging Jordan [Horowitz, a producer on La La Land], and Adele [Romanski, producer of Moonlight] has her arm on his shoulder. That’s what the moment was.”

It still sucks, but it doesnt have to overshadow the accomplishment unless you let it.

What's he trying to do, spin this to be positive somehow? How? It's a travesty!!!