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Game Dev Why PS5, Series X Games Have Yet to Blow Us Away

VFXVeteran

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You are right that neither of these systems can compare with a 3090 in terms of brute power, but consoles have always found ways to punch above their weight by mid to late gen. Looking at games like RDR2, TLOU2, and Gears 5 that were able to wring some pretty sick stuff out of pretty constrained consoles in the One X and PS4 Pro. I don't doubt we are going to see some amazing looking games on the consoles in 2-3 years time.
I doubt it strongly. We'll see. Hardware limitations are real and unless you know how to pull some rabbit out of the 3d rendering hat, I'll remain skeptical.
 

Goro Majima

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Agree on most but Halo 1 and seeing the sun through the pine trees was awesome. Also Ryse smashes Black Flag.

Ah yeah I skipped the XB1 and got a XB1X eventually down the line. Ryse would definitely beat most games.

Also forgot about Killzone which might be in that launch conversation.

Got the OG Xbox late too in 2003 I think? I had already seen some shit on PC that was better by then.
 
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cireza

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I'm happy that people continue to not buy the series S. Soon it will be discontinued by MS for everyone's sake.

Imagine a generation without that shackle of weak hardware.
Series S does not need to be discontinued. They can simply introduce Series X only game, but this would suck and hopefully it won't happen.

This guy has a 100% developer point of view :
- tools are not perfect at launch, so we have to work more, and working is hard
- Series S has a less powerful hardware, so we have to optimize, so this is work, and working is hard

If you listen to developers, they always ask for the most powerful, unrealistic hardware, so they can make the most unoptimized code ever.

Series S is a great machine for consumers, and developers will have no other choice but to adapt to it.
 

Sagii86

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"Blow you away" is a very very strong phrase and shouldn't really be used as if the current crop of games are significantly subpar right now. You need bandwidth to make a generational leap described as "blown away" over games that are current now and consoles don't have that kind of bandwidth.

RT usage is definitely not going to blow people away with the consoles only having enough bandwidth for reflections and no DLSS.

Real time raytracing & ray marching is not the only or main feature that will be shown. The difference is substantial. Whether you will or not be impressed by the stuff being worked on is up to you.
 
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Captain Toad

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Real time raytracing & ray marching is not the only or main feature that will be shown. The difference is substantial. Whether you will or not be impressed by the stuff being worked on is up to you.
Speaking of other features, the DualSense features have been amazing and is a complete game-changer to me.
 

meanspartan

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I mean its been this way with nearly every generation. Honestly the only "grand leap" I can remember was Snes to N64 and the Dreamcast launch.
SD to HD was pretty big imo.

I went to a friend's house circa 2006 or so when Gears 1 came out. I only had a Ps2 and standard def TVs at the time.

Seeing Gears of War in 720p blew my fucking mind. Biggest jump for me, aside from 2d to 3d.
 

93xfan

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With all the untapped potential, I’d be okay with no pro model this gen.

I think this gen will see some big improvements as time goes on
 
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VFXVeteran

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Real time raytracing & ray marching is not the only or main feature that will be shown. The difference is substantial. Whether you will or not be impressed by the stuff being worked on is up to you.
Every single graphics feature the game industry is working on, I can guarantee that I've seen it already in film. To bust my balls, you'd need some really stellar shit rivaling the real stuff in VFX. And neither these consoles nor a high-end PC has what it takes. But prove me wrong so I can eat crow.
 

DaGwaphics

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He's complained about series s, said it's not as easy as people think about just lowering resolution and effects it's more complex than that, This is another developer out of a dozen to complain of series s but as usual fanatics will ignore this and call him a lazy retarded developer. 🤣

You could also say people will hear what the want to hear there depending on what the individual's view is of the XSS.

He did say they appreciated the lower point of entry and that it would be easier with software that was written with the XSS as a consideration from the ground up, but that doesn't fit the narrative, so. 🤷‍♂️

Obviously, the weakest system is the floor for development, that's been obvious from the beginning.
 
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Three

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I think ”dev being the janitor” thing mostly comes down to his finnish accent

Edit: Damn, he doesnt sound like a big fan of Series S at all.
Not a lot of developers who like to create next gen engines are. A lot of xbox fans just hate to admit it is not good for pushing the boundaries of next gen.
 
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Sagii86

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Every single graphics feature the game industry is working on, I can guarantee that I've seen it already in film. To bust my balls, you'd need some really stellar shit rivaling the real stuff in VFX. And neither these consoles nor a high-end PC has what it takes. But prove me wrong so I can eat crow.

I strongly suspect you will end up being dissapointed. This upcoming cycle, the main goal is to transition some of the offline techniques & pipelines into real time realm.
 

ReBurn

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There are barely any PS5 and XSX games to blow us away. I've never seen a more pitiful launch of new hardware.
 

VFXVeteran

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I strongly suspect you will end up being dissapointed. This upcoming cycle, the main goal is to transition some of the offline techniques & pipelines into real time realm.
Yup. Let's get inexpensive texture reads down first. It makes no sense for this new generation to be struggling to implement 16x anisotropic filtering at a reasonable cost. That doesn't bode well at all.
 

Warnen

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because pc have better visual for years. Next gen has nothing to to offer the hardest core of gamers.
 

Jon Neu

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We are yet to see a true next gen game.

Project Atalia or whatever it’s name is now, shows some interesting things in the graphical department and I’m sure there are going to be much better graphical games in the future.

Demon's Souls as a next gen game is just weak.

So yeah, probably until the end of 2022 or 2023 we aren't going to see what this machines are capable of.
 

peter42O

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I have been blown away by the SSD in the Xbox Series X and the 60FPS on a consistent basis. Been blown away by the Ray Tracing in Miles Morales on PlayStation 5. I could never ever go back to playing games on last generation hardware. And with each passing year, the generation will get better and better.
 

DrAspirino

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I'm happy that people continue to not buy the series S. Soon it will be discontinued by MS for everyone's sake.

You CLEARLY have absolutely NO IDEA about who and where the XSS is aimed to.

Have you ever heard of a place called "Asia" and another place called "Latin America"? Because Phil has been pretty aggressive on pricing strategy on those markets.

For example, in Chile (my country), XSS is priced at $319.990 CLP (roughly US$449), and XSX is $529.990 CLP (roughly US$743); all while PS5DE costs $499.990 CLP (roughly US$701), and PS5 regular costs $649.990 (roughly US$911). The price difference between the XSS and PS5DE is so great (nearly US$250) that for most people in LatAm and Asia region the PS5 is prohibitive. Heck, the price difference in Brasil and Mexico is even bigger than the one we have in Chile.

During last generation, PS4 and XbOne prices were roughly the same here in LatAm, all the while the PlayStation brand was more popular (so unless you had legacy games on gold, PS4 was the obvious choice). Now, even the brand AND the "exclusives" cannot justify a price difference of that magnitude. Microsoft has been just THAT aggressive on pricing strategy.
 

Md Ray

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120 fps is the only thing I believe is overblown and not at all necessary for consoles.
It's huge. Fast-paced, FPS games like DOOM or DOOM Eternal will really benefit from 120fps upgrade even on consoles. The controller responsiveness alone is on a whole another level when compared to 60fps.

Been playing D: Eternal on PC at 120fps and just for experiments' sake I went back to 60fps and my God... It was so jarring. And I'm someone who's been playing games at 30fps and 60fps my whole life.
 
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Three

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Series S does not need to be discontinued. They can simply introduce Series X only game, but this would suck and hopefully it won't happen.

This guy has a 100% developer point of view :
- tools are not perfect at launch, so we have to work more, and working is hard
- Series S has a less powerful hardware, so we have to optimize, so this is work, and working is hard

If you listen to developers, they always ask for the most powerful, unrealistic hardware, so they can make the most unoptimized code ever.

Series S is a great machine for consumers, and developers will have no other choice but to adapt to it.
Why not just say "Lazy devs" and be done with it
You CLEARLY have absolutely NO IDEA about who and where the XSS is aimed to.

Have you ever heard of a place called "Asia" and another place called "Latin America"? Because Phil has been pretty aggressive on pricing strategy on those markets.

For example, in Chile (my country), XSS is priced at $319.990 CLP (roughly US$449), and XSX is $529.990 CLP (roughly US$743); all while PS5DE costs $499.990 CLP (roughly US$701), and PS5 regular costs $649.990 (roughly US$911). The price difference between the XSS and PS5DE is so great (nearly US$250) that for most people in LatAm and Asia region the PS5 is prohibitive. Heck, the price difference in Brasil and Mexico is even bigger than the one we have in Chile.

During last generation, PS4 and XbOne prices were roughly the same here in LatAm, all the while the PlayStation brand was more popular (so unless you had legacy games on gold, PS4 was the obvious choice). Now, even the brand AND the "exclusives" cannot justify a price difference of that magnitude. Microsoft has been just THAT aggressive on pricing strategy.
It isn't aimed at any particular country. There is nothing aggressive about offering a low spec low cost machine. Aggressive pricing would be taking a larger loss to offer higher specs. Creating a low spec low cost machine isn't some new strategy. Nintendo have been doing it for years and selling at a profit too. People need the accept that games that will "blow you away" technically just isn't part of MS's strategy. Their strategy is gamepass and that means xbox one subscribers and low entry cost globally including the US and Europe.
 

DarkMage619

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Why not just say "Lazy devs" and be done with it

It isn't aimed at any particular country. There is nothing aggressive about offering a low spec low cost machine. Aggressive pricing would be taking a larger loss to offer higher specs. Creating a low spec low cost machine isn't some new strategy. Nintendo have been doing it for years and selling at a profit too. People need the accept that games that will "blow you away" technically just isn't part of MS's strategy. Their strategy is gamepass and that means xbox one subscribers and low entry cost globally including the US and Europe.
There are games on the X1 that rival titles on the PS5 graphically. You don't seem to know what you are talking about.
 
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DaGwaphics

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Why not just say "Lazy devs" and be done with it

It isn't aimed at any particular country. There is nothing aggressive about offering a low spec low cost machine. Aggressive pricing would be taking a larger loss to offer higher specs. Creating a low spec low cost machine isn't some new strategy. Nintendo have been doing it for years and selling at a profit too. People need the accept that games that will "blow you away" technically just isn't part of MS's strategy. Their strategy is gamepass and that means xbox one subscribers and low entry cost globally including the US and Europe.

Actually, creating a lower spec machine in the same development path as a higher-end model (it gets all the same games) is completely new to the console space.

How the XSS performs in sales likely depends on how the top tier systems can be cost reduced. If the XSX and PS5 cost reduce at a similar pace as previous generations, there isn't as much need for the XSS. However, if prices get stuck at a higher level, and you are not getting access to that second/third wave of buyers with each $50/$100 price cut, than you might see a lot more interest in the XSS at that point.
 
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Dr Bass

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Demons Souls was one of the best game experiences I've ever had, and I've never seen any console game look even close to it. Articles like this are beyond stupid. Quit speaking for everyone. PS5 has already more than delivered for me.
 

Dr Bass

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I love Demon's and think it looks amazing but there is a fuzziness that makes it only on par overall with Gears 5. Especially that expansion. We still need a game that shows a definite jump and I think they are coming.
You might want to check your tv. I am playing on the Sony 900H 85" and even in "performance mode" it is incredibly sharp and solid looking. Even my buddy who usually prefers Xbox and has a Series X saw it and ran out and bought a PS5 from a "scalper" after seeing it because it "truly looked next gen."

Demons Souls is an achievement.
 
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turtlepowa

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You might want to check your tv. I am playing on the Sony 900H 85" and even in "performance mode" it is incredibly sharp and solid looking. Even my buddy who usually prefers Xbox and has a Series X saw it and ran out and bought a PS5 from a "scalper" after seeing it because it "truly looked next gen."

Demons Souls is an achievement.
"Last gen" Gears 5 looks absolutely stunning on XSX, i couldn't tell what game looks better.
 
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If the sales ratio between PS5 and XSX is anything like that between PS4 and Xbone, you're going to see devs switch their games to PS5 exclusives instead of having to deal with the Series S. At that point Microsoft will have to abandon the platform - if not by discontinuing it altogether then by allowing games to be made for XSX and not XSS.
 

DarkMage619

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If the sales ratio between PS5 and XSX is anything like that between PS4 and Xbone, you're going to see devs switch their games to PS5 exclusives instead of having to deal with the Series S. At that point Microsoft will have to abandon the platform - if not by discontinuing it altogether then by allowing games to be made for XSX and not XSS.
Positive that won't happen. On either the sales front or XSS bring dropped. Count on it.
 

DavidGzz

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You might want to check your tv. I am playing on the Sony 900H 85" and even in "performance mode" it is incredibly sharp and solid looking. Even my buddy who usually prefers Xbox and has a Series X saw it and ran out and bought a PS5 from a "scalper" after seeing it because it "truly looked next gen."

Demons Souls is an achievement.

CX. There's a definite crispness in Gears 5 vs. Demon's on my screen. Even in the quality mode. Almost like film grain but different.
 

Three

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Actually, creating a lower spec machine in the same development path as a higher-end model (it gets all the same games) is completely new to the console space.

How the XSS performs in sales likely depends on how the top tier systems can be cost reduced. If the XSX and PS5 cost reduce at a similar pace as previous generations, there isn't as much need for the XSS. However, if prices get stuck at a higher level, and you are not getting access to that second/third wave of buyers with each $50/$100 price cut, than you might see a lot more interest in the XSS at that point.
I guess that is somewhat new at launch but it depends what perspective you look at it from. I'm talking about just creating a low cost low spec machine to enter Asia or LatAm.
If you are talking about developers having to create a single game for different specs from a single manufacturer we have had something slightly similar. In the past what we had was hardware expansion ports. Customers spent money on top of the base hardware to improve specs. Same games ran but some games ran better with the improved hardware. And of course we have PS4 slim and PS4 Pro, X1S and X1X already. X1X got discontinued and X1S kept selling.

How the XSS performs in sales likely depends on how the top tier systems can be cost reduced. If the XSX and PS5 cost reduce at a similar pace as previous generations, there isn't as much need for the XSS.
Clearly its sales performance will depend on the cost of the higher spec alternative but MS dictate that. I don't see massive cost reduction killing XSS. I don't see this happening and neither does MS. MS made clear they plan and predict to sell more XSS. They aim for it to be their main seller and have said their strategy is not even based on next gen sales and it makes sense. Their strategy is focused on gamepass and its users.

Right now next gen consoles are just creating losses to the subscription. As you saw with last gen the PS4 Slim never hit $199 like the PS3 Super Slim or PS2 Slim. I would take an educated guess and predict that you will not even see price drops this gen comparable to PS4/XB1. Any price reduction in BOM would just be smaller losses for the manufacturer for a while but the low spec XSS will allow them to keep a low price of entry for gamepass subscriptions. Any BOM reduction that affects the XSX will have an even greater reduction and more profit for XSS (no disc drive, no second hand sales, things like chip size and yield are non-linear). There is absolutely no reason why MS wouldn't want more XSS sales with dropping BOM and as they have stated they fully expect and plan for more XSS sales.
 
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Onironauta

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If there's something that will blow me away about next-gen games, that certainly won't be the graphics
 

DaGwaphics

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Clearly its sales performance will depend on the cost of the higher spec alternative but MS dictate that. I don't see massive cost reduction killing XSS. I don't see this happening and neither does MS. MS made clear they plan and predict to sell more XSS. They aim for it to be their main seller and have said their strategy is not even based on next gen sales and it makes sense. Their strategy is focused on gamepass and its users.

Right now next gen consoles are just creating losses to the subscription. As you saw with last gen the PS4 Slim never hit $199 like the PS3 Super Slim or PS2 Slim. I would take an educated guess and predict that you will not even see price drops this gen comparable to PS4/XB1. Any price reduction in BOM would just be smaller losses for the manufacturer for a while but the low spec XSS will allow them to keep a low price of entry for gamepass subscriptions. Any BOM reduction that affects the XSX will have an even greater reduction and more profit for XSS (no disc drive, no second hand sales, things like chip size and yield are non-linear). There is absolutely no reason why MS wouldn't want more XSS sales with dropping BOM and as they have stated they fully expect and plan for more XSS sales.

I'm not disagreeing with you there. I never intended to imply that "killing" the XSS would ever be an option, I think MS is committed to the box for the duration, as they should be.

I was just pointing out that if the XSX gets stuck at $500 that is going to increase demand for XSS, once some of the typical buyers realize that the next-gen hardware prices aren't getting that expected cut. RE: PS4 Pro and 1X, that's a bit of a different scenario when the higher-end model appears years after launch, and you support that box by just turning the dials up.
 
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skit_data

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In 5-6 years time we'll be on a new generation of consoles.
...or 1/2 a generation behind what couldve been the minimum specs depending on how you look at it.
PC players are used to having to upgrade to meet minimum requirements (recommended really, if we are to be honest) but for some reason this gen we are to let these ”rules” dont apply? Its perfectly fine to release a game that 70-80% of PC players cannot even boot. Well, not anymore. Everything has to be tied down to meet a lower spec, because console players will probably not be OK with a game barely booting.

I simply cannot understand how people cannot see the issue with this.
 
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Romulus

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I mean its been this way with nearly every generation. Honestly the only "grand leap" I can remember was Snes to N64 and the Dreamcast launch.

Agreed, N64 and PS1 were huge. OG Xbox was damn impressive at launch too. But VR is the only leap that surpasses the N64 leap. I'm jealous of people that haven't used VR at all and now get to use solid VR tech and AAA games. That must be fucking mind-boggling.
 
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JackMcGunns

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I'm surprised no one is talking about his comments @13:30
Pretty much confirms the TOOLS issue for Series X and why things are in favor of PS5 early on in terms of optimizations.

He said:

Sony basically stuck with what "works" while MS opted to changed quite a lot of things, which in the long run are good, but it's just a bigger hurdle for us early on since we got to re-write a bunch of things to really take advantage of specific features, and that's not a huge negative, it's just what software development is like, but that explains some things, there's all this discussion about Teraflops this and that, but ultimately the tools matter so much more.



MEGATON!

 
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Shelookdlvl18

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PlayStation's contribution to next gen multiplat base spec:
CPU - 8 cores 16 threads @ 3.5 GHz
GPU - 36 CUs @ 2.23 GHz
RAM - 16 GB @ 448 GB/s
I/O - 5.5-9.0 GB/s

Xbox's contribution to next gen multiplat base spec:
CPU - 8 cores 16 threads @ 3.4 GHz
GPU - 20 CUs @ 1.565 GHz
RAM - 10 GB @ 56-224 GB/s
I/O - 2.4-4.8 GB/s

Now lets look at what multiplatform developers will be using for their next gen console base spec for the next 7 years:

CPU - 8 cores 16 threads @ 3.4 GHz
(XBSS sets base spec cuz its lower than PS5)

GPU - 20 CUs @ 1.565 GHz
(XBSS also sets base spec cuz its lower than PS5)

RAM - 10 GB @ 56-224 GB/s
(XBSS sets base spec again cu its lower than PS5)

I/O - 2.4-4.8 GB/s
(XBSS/X both set base spec once again, both are lower than PS5)

Thrilled to know Sbox will be holding back multiplatform PS5 games for the entire generation. Thanks Philsoft.
That's quite the reach there.
I'm kinda impressed actually.
 

Lethal01

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I'm surprised no one is talking about his comments @13:30
Pretty much confirms the TOOLS issue for Series X and why things are in favor of PS5 early on in terms of optimizations.

He said:

Sony basically stuck with what "works" while MS opted to changed quite a lot of things, which in the long run are good, but it's just a bigger hurdle for us early on since we got to re-write a bunch of things to really take advantage of specific features, and that's not a huge negative, it's just what software development is like, but that explains some things, there's all this discussion about Teraflops this and that, but ultimately the tools matter so much more.



MEGATON!


He also said that we can expect HUGE improvements from both platforms over the year.
 

Shelookdlvl18

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Isn't the XSX selling worse than the Xbone already? Why exactly would that change?
The SX is selling out as fast as they can make them. While the SS doesn't sell out within seconds, it does sell out pretty quickly.

If the sales ratio between PS5 and XSX is anything like that between PS4 and Xbone, you're going to see devs switch their games to PS5 exclusives instead of having to deal with the Series S. At that point Microsoft will have to abandon the platform - if not by discontinuing it altogether then by allowing games to be made for XSX and not XSS.
That's nothing more than a Sony fanboy's wetdream. Devs won't look at a bit of extra work, throw their hands up, and say "Make it PS5 exclusive". Especially if developing games for XSS, XSX, PC is largely similar compared to PS5.
 

Redlight

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He literally didn't say that. He was talking about Control, but said from now on they can include it from day one and give it as good a shake as it deserves.

Did you just listen to what you wanted to and then rush here to post?
Thank you. All the comments above yours are quite misleading.
 
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That's nothing more than a Sony fanboy's wetdream. Devs won't look at a bit of extra work, throw their hands up, and say "Make it PS5 exclusive". Especially if developing games for XSS, XSX, PC is largely similar compared to PS5.
By this logic devs will never stop releasing PS4/Xbone versions either. After all, it's just a bit of extra work.
 

Shelookdlvl18

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By this logic devs will never stop releasing PS4/Xbone versions either. After all, it's just a bit of extra work.
No, they will once sales of those versions no longer offset the work.

While there could potentially be some extra time required to get XSS versions of games to where they're comfortable with the product, you're pretending it's far more additional work than it is.

You should avoid logic if that's your example of it. It obviously doesn't agree with you.
 
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