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why so few graphically outstanding games on 360?

T

tranciful

Member
DarkChild said:
There are other stuff in GT5 photo mode to utilize quality of visuals beside dof. It has much better shaders and lighting, plus shadows are not last gen like in actual gameplay. What H4 gifs are showing is exactly how game looks like with DOF which I guess will be there in game too just not in your face while you are shooting.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, we just have confirmation that everything shown is "in-engine," which is still true for GT5's photo travel mode. I think it's reasonable to think expectations will be more down to earth when we see actual gameplay -- it's not like this isn't common practice for lots of high profile games.

Keep in mind that this was a 'screenshot' for Halo 3:
http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo3/screenshots/H3_MasterChief.jpg

Compared to this now:
http://i.minus.com/iflymF8cHm42X.jpg

This seems like fairly common practice for high profile games, and not just on 360.
 
D

Dug

Banned
I remember seeing this image in the Halo thread and being amazed at how real it looks:

0aJMv.jpg


Here's another Forza one:

GesCL.jpg
Click to expand...
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
D

DarkChild

Banned
tranciful said:
As far as I know, we just have confirmation that everything shown is "in-engine," which is still true for GT5's photo travel mode. I think it's reasonable to be skeptical -- it's not like this isn't common practice for lots of high profile games.

Keep in mind that these were 'screenshots' for Halo 3:
http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo3/screenshots/H3_MasterChief.jpg
http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo3/screenshots/h3_e32006_ChiefIntro.jpg

Compared to this now:
http://i.minus.com/iflymF8cHm42X.jpg
Click to expand...
Halo 3 was so much in sub hd that it was almost SD game, but that Chief model in first shot IS exactly the same as in gameplay. Second shot is from CGI...

Those photos where confirmed in game, with in engine dof. Those are in game assets and thats lighting thats you are going to see in the game, as well as shadows, nothing is changed. The fact that it was taken from particular POV from their engine just shows what parts they wanted to show to people.

UC2 is fine example...
Taken from engine, not part of gameplay or cutscene, but not in any case "photoshop" of what game actually looks like.
Uncharted2_Dez_1.jpg
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I didn't think I'd be starting a two page debate by mentioning Halo 4, but I guess I should've known better. Well, I guess Dennis's gifs are what really started it.

Also, it's not to see clarification from Frankie in here.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
DarkChild said:
Halo 3 was so much in sub hd that it was almost SD game, but that Chief model in first shot IS exactly the same as in gameplay. Second shot is from CGI...
Click to expand...
The Halo 3 reveal trailer wasn't CGI. The dev diary back then showed the turning the camera etc. It was more like a techdemo
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
DarkChild said:
Those are all in game assets that you see, the lighting the shadowing, ALL in game. DOF is in engine. Unless you are asking why didn't they take screens with FRAPS and show it like that instead like all other developers do...
Click to expand...

What is the difference between in-engine and in-game for you?
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
schennmu said:
A camera spinning around a shiny armor is a graphics showcase, but at the same time actual (multiplayer) gameplay footage shouldn't be judged? Ok.
Click to expand...
Since when are MP graphics ever better then SP graphics? Yeah, never. That was my point.

For somebody who is "reserving judgement", you sure are making conclusions fast.
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
TheOddOne said:
Since when are MP graphics ever better then SP graphics? Yeah, never. That was my point.
Click to expand...

Of course not, but they are still a better indicator for the graphics than a gameplay isolated demo.

Concerning your stealth edit:
I still think it's useless to include H4 in this thread without gameplay footage. This in-engine talk is so lolworthy.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
That underwater Gears 3 video looked fantastic. I'm surprised I hadn't seen that before. Any other good Gears 3 vids to look out for? I don't care about spoilers for it.
 
S

squidyj

Member
DarkChild said:
ijscV1fOIvFP6.gif

igTuFkAw5I7CK.gif

i5R9kfy5Lu5fy.gif


This doesn't look good to you?

I don't know if this picture was pre rendered or not but this almost looks to good to be true...
Click to expand...

when you downscale that much it looks sort of impressive because you're masking imprecision in the blurring, aliasing artifacts, and shadow aliasing although the shadow aliasing is still present and pretty obvious. The lighting itself is alright but nothing incredible and it's really easy to look good in a high contrast scene, especially one you're building a trailer around. The contrast between the bright light and dark shadow override a lot of finer detail and the amount of bloom you're able to use muddies details further. At the same time, depending on whatever system you're using for baking you can tweak that to look much better in a trailer by placing data points at the character or at important points. Think of a cube map for specular information from the scene. If the map is generated from where the character is it's going to be far more accurate and better looking than if he is off position from where it was generated, the same goes for ambient terms.

Even then the shading on the gun in that closeup (not quoted) makes it look very plastic and not metallic at all. Is that what it's supposed to be? do they use plastic guns in Halo? I don't know.
 
D

DarkChild

Banned
schennmu said:
What is the difference between in-engine and in-game for you?
Click to expand...
The difference is the fact that they aren't using effects to make it look better than whats possible on hardware. In engine trailer that Reach shown had enhanced lighting, shadowing, bloom and all the other stuff to make it look nicer and developers confirmed thats possible with their engine, not that it will look like that in game.

Showing video running in real time, 720p, with Master Chief that is exactly the same looking like the one you are going to see in game, and in level thats going to be in the game is not in engine showcase of what they can achieve, its just to showcase new Master Chief from new H4. Without enemies, without everything else, just MC.

It was used for promotional purposes, in game Master Chief in real level. With no enhancing in lighting, shadowing, shading or anything as was confirmed by OuterWorldVoice contrary to what you are able to do in photo mode of F4 and GT5.
 
C

CloakedPuppet

Member
Goldrusher said:
To me, most games are impressive these days.


What I grew up with:

jbnCXLAd5tLoAj.jpg


What I'm playing today:

ibyAZDpSr0zHfm.gif
Click to expand...

Agreed. Whenever I find myself getting a little picky about today's games graphically or otherwise, I like to dig up an older game, even something from last generation - play it for a while until I'm enjoying it without being bothered about how old it looks or feels. Kind of like a palette cleanser.

Then I pop a new game just to be wowed. Not only does it make new games that much more impressive, but also reinvigorates my love for gaming.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
schennmu said:
What is your point? I am not disputing that the Xbox can render this. Judging the final H4 graphics based on this footage is just totally useless.
Click to expand...
How so? I really don't see the need to not include it. People think it looks fantastic, has confirmed expectations that people have wanted for a long time and is confirmed to have atleast some footage from the campaign.

Then again you sure made a big fuss in the GT vs Forza thread, so my guess your view will be skewed regardless.
 
Correctomundo

Correctomundo

Member
Goldrusher said:
To me, most games are impressive these days.


What I grew up with:

jbnCXLAd5tLoAj.jpg


What I'm playing today:

ibyAZDpSr0zHfm.gif
Click to expand...

Yeah. It's maddening when I see these technophiles who strangely opine that if a game isn't the state of the art graphically (often regardless of the game's actual quality otherwise), then it looks like shit.

No, Clyde. It most definitely does not look like shit.
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
DarkChild said:
The difference is the fact that they aren't using effects to make it look better than whats possible on hardware. In engine trailer that Reach shown had enhanced lighting, shadowing, bloom and all the other stuff to make it look nicer and developers confirmed thats possible with their engine, not that it will look like that in game.

Showing video running in real time, 720p, with Master Chief that is exactly the same looking like the one you are going to see in game, and in level thats going to be in the game is not in engine showcase of what they can achieve, its just to showcase new Master Chief from new H4. Without enemies, without anything, just MC.

It was used for promotional purposes, in game Master Chief in real level. With no enhancing in lighting, shadowing, shading or anything as was confirmed by OuterWorldVoice contrary to what you are able to do in photo mode of F4 and GT5.
Click to expand...

Ok, so it's basically still a tech demo. But if they can achieve gameplay with that nice DOF and proper IQ, I might actually be interested.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Correctomundo said:
Yeah. It's maddening when I see these technophiles who strangely opine that if a game isn't the state of the art graphically (often regardless of the game's actual quality otherwise), then it looks like shit.

No, Clyde. It most definitely does not look like shit.
Click to expand...
As long as that GT5 gif isn't the bar we're using then yes, most games look great.

But damn, that gif right there is absolutely stunning, every time.
 
D

danwarb

Member
DarkChild said:
The difference is the fact that they aren't using effects to make it look better than whats possible on hardware. In engine trailer that Reach shown had enhanced lighting, shadowing, bloom and all the other stuff to make it look nicer and developers confirmed thats possible with their engine, not that it will look like that in game.

Showing video running in real time, 720p, with Master Chief that is exactly the same looking like the one you are going to see in game, and in level thats going to be in the game is not in engine showcase of what they can achieve, its just to showcase new Master Chief from new H4. Without enemies, without everything else, just MC.

It was used for promotional purposes, in game Master Chief in real level. With no enhancing in lighting, shadowing, shading or anything as was confirmed by OuterWorldVoice contrary to what you are able to do in photo mode of F4 and GT5.
Click to expand...

So it's like flying about in the theatre mode, which was very representative of in-game graphics.

We can't see a lot but it's looking good.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
the only thing that can be said is there are few *exclusives* which are outstanding looking compared to multiplatform games.
some of the best looking games on x360 are multiplatform and running on middleware, so one would expect exclusives built from the ground up for the 360 to look significantly better than those, which is not always the case. i think this is what OP actually meant, actually.

having said that, there's Pgr4, Halo reach (which is technically impressive, while not always visually impressivpe) Forza 4, Rare's best efforts...
 
D

DarkChild

Banned
schennmu said:
Ok, so it's basically still a tech demo. But if they can achieve gameplay with that nice DOF and proper IQ, I might actually be interested.
Click to expand...
343i guys already confirmed its native 720p and proper AA.

Just to end this stupid discussion, just look at shadows from Master's helmet, look at shadows refresh rate or armor aliasing. It all shows its not a photo mode. Now look at F4 or GT5 photo mode shadowing, shading, lighting or LOD difference with real gameplay. Night and day difference. Those soft shadows from F4 picture in Top Gear studio...You can't get that in gameplay on consoles, impossible. That photo mode is in engine, MC is not.
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
TheOddOne said:
How so? I really don't see the need to not include it. People think it looks fantastic, has confirmed expectations that people have wanted for a long time and is confirmed to have atleast some footage from the campaign.
Click to expand...

Dude, include what you want. Just don't expect people to take it seriously because of some pretty gifs. And confirmed is nothing before we don't have the game in our hands.

Then again you sure made a big fuss in the GT vs Forza thread, so my guess your view will be skewed regardless.
Click to expand...

What? Ok, I see where you're coming from now. Should I start quoting your avatar now or something? I'm done with this.
 
Correctomundo

Correctomundo

Member
mxgt said:
Why are you putting words in my mouth?

GT5 is a good looking game, if you only show off the premium stuff.
Click to expand...

I was more making a motion towards the "shit or pinnacle" attitude that permeates the enthusiast field. I wasn't taking a dig at you personally.

However, now I might have to. If we only show off the premium stuff? Otherwise it's shit, am I getting that?
 
M

mxgt

Banned
Correctomundo said:
However, now I might have to. If we only show off the premium stuff? Otherwise it's shit, am I getting that?
Click to expand...

Otherwise it's pretty average, nothing special. The most jarring thing being those jaggy shadows. Dunno if they fixed them, been a long time since I played it
 
eso76

eso76

Member
BruceLeeRoy said:
I can't find a good pic of it for the life of me but the submarine level in Gears 3 was unbelievable looking.
Click to expand...

someone posted a video.
looks great, never seen it before, but tbh it looks very much on rails.

also, all i could think of is i want an Ecco dotf remake looking like that.
 
O

OrangeOak

Member
eso76 said:
someone posted a video.
looks great, never seen it before, but tbh it looks very much on rails.

also, all i could think of is i want an Ecco dotf remake looking like that.
Click to expand...

Yes it is on rails,there are many more impressive levels in the game.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
schennmu said:
What? Ok, I see where you're coming from now. Should I start quoting your avatar now or something? I'm done with this.
Click to expand...
What is wrong with my avatar? I like Halo. Do I pit up against other games just to prove who is superior? No, never had because it's useless because games have their own unique quality. To get wrapped up in marketing, business or whatever is the least of my concerns. Those factors have sure been a side-effect of the GT vs Forza thread.

To be pessimistic is fine, still when facts are stated you pretty much brush them off completely. Regardless if it disproves your concerns, you'll find something else wrong.
 
F

Foliorum Viridum

Banned
I hate the number of downsampled gifs and pics used in this (and every other) console graphics thread.

I wish there was FRAPS for consoles. Then the hilarious truth would be so easy to show.
 
M

mxgt

Banned
satriales said:
The gif is taken from a gameplay video.
Click to expand...

which is downsampled like crazy which makes the game look a lot better than it actually does.

It's a well known tactic often employed by Killzone fans


DarkChild said:
You mean...

http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Daily/2010/11-Nov/25/Gran%20Turismo%205%20super%20review/Shadows--article_image.jpg[IMG]

...?[/QUOTE]

Yup. awful and completely put me off while playing the game.
Click to expand...
 
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