Perfect Cha0s
Member
Eh, they look A LOT better, but I have to agree that they don't really look "generational leap" better, if you look at the gaps between. N64/PS -> Xbox/PS2 -> 360/PS3.
Yes, I have played these games on PC, too.
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why so few graphically outstanding games on 360?
- Thread starter Shadow of the BEAST
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Eh, they look A LOT better, but I have to agree that they don't really look "generational leap" better, if you look at the gaps between. N64/PS -> Xbox/PS2 -> 360/PS3.
Yes, I have played these games on PC, too.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
The question is, have you played the console version of BF3?
Haunted
Member
The good part is that this thread has evolved into a PC vs PS360 thread, comparisons between PS3 and 360 just don't make sense with the PC elephant in the room.
For all of our sake, I hope I'm wrong.
If a bigger difference than that is our benchmark for a generational leap, I fear a lot of people will be disappointed in the next generation consoles.
For all of our sake, I hope I'm wrong.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
A lot of the aliasing seen in Forza is down to scaling, it's quite a crisp looking game on a proper native 720p display.
High contrast edges and lines do not scale well.
It's the best looking and performing game on the system imo.
High contrast edges and lines do not scale well.
It's the best looking and performing game on the system imo.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
I'm worried about this as well. We're getting to a point where our hardware improvements are granting smaller and smaller visual benefits. If resolution continues to climb (if 4K catches on), Maker help us. We already can't get good AA on our up-scaled console games.
No it isn't.
I think you have to actually consider how developers approach console technology when thinking about what they're asking for.
I mean, look at those old screenshots. Now take something a lot more powerful and shoot for the same general image quality/performance standards of 720p/sort of 30fps/blur filter AA.
A lot of developers are attempting fairly advanced global illumination schemes next generation, which will pretty much throw 60 fps off the face of a cliff just to start.
Using custom rendering solutions and simulators on compute shaders will probably kill the rest of the performance while producing impressive results (for press screenshots).
Horse Armour
Member
99.9999999999999% of "720p" displays used aren't actually 720p so 720p games will pretty much always be scaled unless you happen to be one of the 8 people who own a native 720p TV.
Always-honest
Banned
I don't think so
Forza 4 interestingly drops from 4xMSAA to 2xMSAA when you add in CPU cars.
I suspect Forza World will use a blur filter like FXAA to avoid this issue.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-analysis-forza-motorsport-4
I suspect Forza World will use a blur filter like FXAA to avoid this issue.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-analysis-forza-motorsport-4
Always-honest
Banned
That game doesn't look that great. Maybe in memory.
James Woods
Banned
Fuck. FUCK. I won't call anyone junior in a derogatory manner but this new batch is pretty bad. It's like they saw all the stupid fucking "Post popular games you hate" threads and thought that was what GAF is about. Terrible.
Lion Heart
Banned
Wow that's a huge difference with just 2x AA added.
Nizz
Member
I find this pretty depressing. I wish devs on console would prioritize a solid framerate no matter. Sub 30fps performance in games this gen has been disappointing.
DidntKnowJack
Member
While those were definitely bullshots posted a page back, I have to say overall Forza 4 does look friggin' amazing.
Forza 4 interestingly drops from 4xMSAA to 2xMSAA when you add in CPU cars.
I suspect Forza World will use a blur filter like FXAA to avoid this issue.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-analysis-forza-motorsport-4
And if one plays on an HDTV from their couch at the recommended distance, that isn't noticeable. I see jaggies in FM4, but switching to see the difference in MSAA isn't noticeable to me.
I'm 8' from my 50" HDTV. If I pull a chair up and get my face about a foot or two away I might. I'd have to try. Easier to dissect screens though than a game in motion.
The rock solid 60fps really helps too. So smooth.
A lot of people in this thread have strange perceptions of what the best looking 360 games really are from a technical standpoint. And I'm still gonna have to chalk this up to Microsoft's comparatively weak first party support.
Yes actually.
Yes actually.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Dunno about TV's as I don't use them for gaming anymore but besides a few old LCD units a 720p projector usually does run at 720p.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
How does this help them as a company though? People who already own the system were going to buy these games anyway. If they put in 75% of the effort/money into the game, they would still sell the same game to the same gamer that is buying it at 100%.
But how many studios did Sony actually create rather than just purchase? Sony did not create Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla, and Media Molecule. They just bought them. And both Sony and MS close studios, just this week the first party Zipper went down.
Again, first party exclusives are only important during the first couple years of a system's launch. MS knows this and why we saw so many in it's first year along with better versions of multiplatform games. Putting that much effort and money into first party games now is just wasting money as you are selling to the same gamer who would have bought your game anyway.
Of course I'm looking at this from a business point of view and not a gamer point of view.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
If the early batch of screenshots are any indication, it looks like Halo 4 is going to be pretty outstanding.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Right, but these studios were acquired/partnered with some time ago (ND had a hot run on the PS1). So yeah, the studio may have been bought... but it's been in the Sony fold for three generations so that's hardly a fresh development. And I wasn't referring to the closing of studios; Microsoft sold its own hit studio. Just saying... Microsoft seem to be in a comparatively poor position to kick first party development into high gear considering they don't seem to have the engine configured.
It works on people like me, though. I'm more likely to be interested in the next system if the company shows dedication through the lifetime of the existing system. Granted that both companies are fighting an uphill battle there after system hardware and system software issues throughout this generation, but yeah, I'm more interested in seeing where Sony takes things since they actually seem dedicated to the stuff that makes me tick. If we're talking about multiplatform stuff, then I already have my platform sorted out, and it's not one of theirs.
Forza 4 interestingly drops from 4xMSAA to 2xMSAA when you add in CPU cars.
I suspect Forza World will use a blur filter like FXAA to avoid this issue.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-analysis-forza-motorsport-4
Holy shit, does the game actually look this ugly outside of cockpit view?
This is what's being displayed each frame, but games generally look a lot better when you're seeing 30 to 60 of these a second and you're 6-8 feet away.
NullPointer
Member
Gotta agree with the OPs sentiments. Ps3 exclusives seem to exist graphically on a whole nother level in comparison to the 360. You get the sense that games on the 360 could look pretty close to their PS3 versions, but I'd be surprised if Uncharted 2/3, God of War 3, Killzone 2/3, GT5 were even possible on the 360. There just isn't enough on the 360 that directly compares.
Haunted
Member
Well, looking good in promotional materials is what the publishers care about.
I really don't want to have to predict what next generation console games will look like. I don't think it'll be the jump people expect at this point.
Whatever, let's extend this generation a bit more so more devs can jump [back] on the PC wagon and continue to serve that market and I don't have to worry about this silly bullshit anymore.
How the fuck does he see where he's going!?
Master Chief doesn't need to see where he is going. You'll get the fuck out of his way.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Sony has bought more studios this gen then they ever had previously. Again, you only used ND which were bought last gen, not PS1 gen. You pointed out that MS hasn't created sudios and I was just pointing out that Sony for the most part hasn't either this gen. They just outspent MS. All new gens have new rules and everything is reset. If MS doesn't kick it into gear with the first party exclusives then they will suffer and if they don't suffer and sell a ton of new systems without these types of games then that just goes to show how unimportant first party exclusives have become in the marketplace.
As you pointed out and we saw from going from PS2 to PS3, there is no promise that decisions this gen will keep the customer next gen. MS continues to outsell their competition this gen with the current decisions they are making.
Things don't have to make sense in that game.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Maybe not anymore but when it came out it sure looked mind blowing. Which you can say about some of the PS3 games people list but maybe not to the same extent since it's a lot older.
Kind of agree with the op, but gears 3 and red dead redemption both look too good to be running on a console. The ps3 exclusives stick out more because multiplatform games, until like a 2 years ago, almost always looked like crap on ps3. That said Sony first party debs worked some voodoo magic on that hardware. Naughty dog destroyed this gen.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
This grossly simplifies what it means to 'make a studio'. What is the difference, exactly, between creating a studio and buying it, when that studio has been chiefly funded from the same source that ended up inevitably buying it down the road?
When you make a studio, you are buying talent. Sony put forth the funding necessary for all of these studios to develop and grow into fruition so that their own strengths could be adequately exploited. They did this initially with second party publishing schemes in place, where the studios still remained independent, and then as they had proven their success Sony took it a step further and outright bought the studio to cement its relationship. But the investment Sony made has been there largely from the start.
And first party exclusives are always important throughout the entire duration of a system's lifecycle. Microsoft has managed to do well without focusing as much on exclusives as its competitors, but having Gears of War, Halo, Forza, and Fable has been a strategy of theirs that has allowed them to amass their userbase and sustain it. Exclusives may accomplish different objectives during different parts of a console's lifecycle, but they are no less important at the end than at the beginning.
Exclusives play to the strengths of the hardware.
When designing and building the game you play to what it can do well and hide what it can't.
If your console can do open-world really well and the opposition can't then that's what you make.
Remember halo has co-op, theatre mode and killzone does not, why?
Also forza has rock solid 60fps, GT does not, why?
When designing and building the game you play to what it can do well and hide what it can't.
If your console can do open-world really well and the opposition can't then that's what you make.
Remember halo has co-op, theatre mode and killzone does not, why?
Also forza has rock solid 60fps, GT does not, why?
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I only read the first page, but in my mind... Prince of Persia 2008 was. Unbelievable.
Those guys at Ubisoft were on to something there. They just needed to fix the combat, and instead they rebooted AGAIN, in the most retarded way.
I wish / hope / pray, they will tab into those creative fuels again and make an open world again, like that again - A open world game that much like journey, is about emotion and feeling. navigating through a world that tells its story through visuals.
you can have a talking head character explain about the world, or you can show the skeletons and hints of past civilizations in the sand.
Those guys at Ubisoft were on to something there. They just needed to fix the combat, and instead they rebooted AGAIN, in the most retarded way.
I wish / hope / pray, they will tab into those creative fuels again and make an open world again, like that again - A open world game that much like journey, is about emotion and feeling. navigating through a world that tells its story through visuals.
you can have a talking head character explain about the world, or you can show the skeletons and hints of past civilizations in the sand.
As I suspected, Halo 4 looks made for hipsters
That's a really bizarre statement. It's a question of design intent above anything else. GT decided to used it's fillrate to improve image quality, not framerate. I would say it was a poor decision, but it was their choice. Resistance 2 has extensive co-op, and huge multiplayer. I think for the worse, but that was their decision.
And I think InFamous 2 is the best looking open world game this generation.
EDIT: On the consoles I mean.
Well, looking good in promotional materials is what the publishers care about.
I really don't want to have to predict what next generation console games will look like. I don't think it'll be the jump people expect at this point.
Whatever, let's extend this generation a bit more so more devs can jump [back] on the PC wagon and continue to serve that market and I don't have to worry about this silly bullshit anymore.
I feel user perception is a key aspect in all this though.
A lot of people think that Uncharted 2 ran circles around Crysis visually, but this has no basis in technical assessment.
However, Naughty Dog was very smart about what they chose to target.
They focused on doing things like making hair look better and having really good particle effects, and also prerendered their cutscenes so they could have nicer lighting when people were examining the visuals the most.
People aren't likely to notice how bad your textures and texture filtering are or how low poly your barrel is when they're too busy being impressed by how nice your fire effect is and how great that last explosion was.
Having really high quality character models also helps distract from deficiencies in the environment, because the character keeps taking people's attention away from really sitting there and analyzing what the environment looks like. Having a few nice environment views can also leave a great impression on people, even if the environment outside of those views is not nearly as nice, since they're too busy getting shot at to really notice.
I doubt many people will notice if a lamp post is more round due to tessellation next generation, but I bet they would notice well targeted improvements in things like hair, face lighting, texture resolution (in locations where players are most likely to look), and animation.
One of the reasons people are focusing on making better lighting is that it can make such a huge, noticeable difference on a scene.
I wonder if MS will push it back to simultaneously release it with Xbox 3. Things could improve further still. *pipedream*
This, this. This needs to be fucking quoted one every page. While in motion so many of the deficiencies that are observable become either irrelevant or less annoying. However, at the point, there are other factors that can kill the suspension of the disbelief including framerate drops, pop-in (massive one), different LOD models loading up depending upon the distance (hopefully tessellation aided by higher poly-count capacity from next gen GPUs will alleviate this issue to an extent) and to some extent screen tearing.
Windom Earle
Member
Is there any good gameplay footage of H4?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Then why is it that the system with the least amount of exclusives sells the most if exclusives are that important?
This happened too with MGS4 and Killzone 2/3 development.
I think alpha lighting were better
but well final buids were awesome too.I feel user perception is a key aspect in all this though.
A lot of people think that Uncharted 2 ran circles around Crysis visually, but this has no basis in technical assessment.
However, Naughty Dog was very smart about what they chose to target.
They focused on doing things like making hair look better and having really good particle effects, and also prerendered their cutscenes so they could have nicer lighting when people were examining the visuals the most.
People aren't likely to notice how bad your textures and texture filtering are or how low poly your barrel is when they're too busy being impressed by how nice your fire effect is and how great that last explosion was.
Having really high quality character models also helps distract from deficiencies in the environment, because the character keeps taking people's attention away from really sitting there and analyzing what the environment looks like. Having a few nice environment views can also leave a great impression on people, even if the environment outside of those views is not nearly as nice, since they're too busy getting shot at to really notice.
I doubt many people will notice if a lamp post is more round due to tessellation next generation, but I bet they would notice well targeted improvements in things like hair, face lighting, texture resolution (in locations where players are most likely to look), and animation.
One of the reasons people are focusing on making better lighting is that it can make such a huge, noticeable difference on a scene.
Yes sir. Lighting is one of the biggest improvements lately. 2011 saw some of the most impressive lighting in games: Gears 3 (two pics you posted), Crysis 2, BF3, Dead Space 2, BulletStorm, NCAA Football 12. And I'm sure there's others.
According to Frankie in the very near future (I guess till the end of this month) we'll see some stuff from a campaign mission, a second vidoc with some campaign info and footage? I truly hope so.
Exactly but killzone was going up against halo so why take out features such as co-op and theatre mode?
Apologies but I think my point came across wrong.
I will just read the thread as I feel it will just turn into a, well you know what I mean.
Take them out? I don't think they did, I just don't think they ever put them in. The KZs haven't been very good games so far, nothing about their inferiority is a result of the hardware though I'm sure.
This doesn't look good to you?
I don't know if this picture was pre rendered or not but this almost looks to good to be true...
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