quickwhips
Member
i don't hate it i just don't care as factions isn't out.
Doesn't it make sense they took her example? She was pretty successful, and arguing against her would only be met with accusations of sexism, regardless of the merit of the argument. That would be like holding a peaceful protest with cardboard signs, while the enemy is mobilizing tanks and missile launchers; You're not gonna be able to compete. It is the world political activists have created, and it's why people feel the need to defend their positions using the same tactics.When Anita sarkeesian first came out with that YouTube series one of the things that bothered me the most is her accusations we're completely baseless [...]
To my amazement The Gaming Community has basically proceeded to argue her argument simply towards different demographics [...]
I wouldn't say I hate the game, but there are a couple of things that deflate it for me.
The INSANE coincidence of Joel and and Tommy coming upon Abby and subsequently into their whole gang was just lazy. I would rather he was kidnapped or tricked into getting caught but ino, it was like 'sup I'm the one you're all looking for, crazy right?'
I really dislike Abby as a playable character. As a villain? Heck yeah. Appropriate enough motivation that's believable in the context of the story. But I don't care about playing as her. I really don't care about her sob story in a world full of them, especially since I am already invested in Joel and Ellie's story since the first game. If they wanted another character to be the focus, then make the game about those characters instead of this stupid bait and switch.
Hate the trope of killing all the mooks trying to get to the big bad, even killing somebody pregnant only to stop in front of the goal and saying "I'm not gonna kill you" like bitch you killed everybody to get here.
Oh and the ridiculous lapse of in-universe logic regarding that stupid bank with the stupid vault with infected inside. Really? Twenty-fucking-five years later and these infected are still just normal? Shouldn't they all be bloaters at that point? Naw you see its a cool set piece bruh
You don't understand anything outside of love for all things Sony.Anybody that played the game (and it has the best completion rate of any game in PlayStation 4) can see:
- The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.
- The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.
- Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).
- The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.
- The enemy variety is now way better.
- The weapons and craft items are way better than original.
- The world and environment are fantastic.
- Side activities are great.
- It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.
The game is everything a sequel should be.
It is a must to play even if you get down due violence.
So I really can't understand the hate some GAFers has with one of the best games ever created.
PS. I really can't even understand the political controversy... I really can't see politics in the game... maybe because I'm not American? I don't know.
Edit - Making this thread just me miss even more Factions MP... I blamed ND for that and I will continue doing that because that decision was utter shit.
It just comes across as a bit pretentous to me.
It's probably a fine game. But it's just that air of "VISIONARY MASTERPICE" that irks me. I feel the same about some films.
TLOU2 fans are the fucking worst.Becouse they are insecure shit head, that's why, and they also think that gaming isnt mature media like movies and tv.
Those fuckers think that they own gaming media and if somebody make even little wrong game, thos fuckers attack.
We have a long way to go, if gaming is going to be like movies and shows, first we need to ditch those fuckin fanboys!
That is interesting...
Spoilers of course.
But Joel chanced... and that is one of the things you will realized pretty fast... Joel is not that helpless, depressive without reason to live like in the first game... he recovered part of what he lost and now he is again more like the father he was with fear, afraid, etc... he is now a human again... he is not that all in machine due the extreme circumstances he was in the first game... and that is something I really appreciate.
IMO the game nailed again his characterization.
The writing is absolute garbage in this game from nearly the beginning till the end.
The reason its like beating a dead horse is because most people's rationale for hating the game boils down to the game not being the Joel-centric fan service story they wanted, and/or because its writer director is a member of the political tribe they are opposed to.
Its really that simple, especially as neither of those things should be considered as faults.
Sorry, but from where I stand if you're the sort of "fan" who believes their affection for a property should act as an ironclad creative strait-jacket preventing its author from going wherever their muse/instinct takes them, you're not really a fan at all.
Similarly if we are to start shitting on works just because their creator holds political beliefs we do not share, then why not join Resetera? That's been their MO from day#1.
No its not.
What it isn't is the usual fan-service pabulum that people have gotten far too used to.
The reason they shrug it off is because as an operation the whole thing (killing Joel) goes off almost flawlessly. In and out with zero casualties and no collateral damage. I say almost because Ellie's arrival prevents Abby from interrogating Joel harder and for longer, understandable given she's spent the last 5 years training and obsessively planning to kill the bastard who murdered her father for reasons unknown. Anyone would have questions.
From her perspective Joel is just some scumbag smuggler, she doesn't know him beyond his name which is why she's kinda dumbstruck when she encounters him and Tommy in the blizzard. Following which an opportunity presents itself to lure him into an ambush...
But sadly you seem unable to see any perspective but your own, which as a non-diegetic observer is a vantage point literally noone in the fictional world could possibly have short of having some sort of crystal ball!
Seriously, stop with the "bad writing" argument. Its got as much legitimacy as the hoary old "lazy coding" argument; All it serves to show is your ignorance of the thing you presume to critique.
He got killed by the chick he saved literally 5 minutes after doing so. That's disrespectful to the character,
nobody even knew about (due to marketing)
Abby gives no fucks about killing Joel right after he saved her.
Abby and crew should've grown closer to Joel and company,
then you can have that payoff where you understand who she is and a betrayal occurs.
portrayed like a sociopath for a large portion of the game.
Writing like that is all around this game, such as the writing aiming to paint everyone as "grey" rather than good vs. evil, yet Abby sticks out like a sore thumb for being a piece of shit and a scumbag human being.
He got killed by the chick he saved literally 5 minutes after doing so. That's disrespectful to the character, because the plot was sped up to give us the Abby vs. Ellie stuff nobody even knew about (due to marketing) and didn't care about once they got the game. You'd have to turn your brain off and take the narration as gospel to not notice that Abby gives no fucks about killing Joel right after he saved her. The plot just shrugs it all off, but it's a crucial point where they meet. Abby and crew should've grown closer to Joel and company, then you can have that payoff where you understand who she is and a betrayal occurs. Instead, she's portrayed like a sociopath for a large portion of the game.
Writing like that is all around this game, such as the writing aiming to paint everyone as "grey" rather than good vs. evil, yet Abby sticks out like a sore thumb for being a piece of shit and a scumbag human being. Rapes drunk Owen/fucks best friend's (Mel's) man while he is drunk and literally states she doesn't care when she wakes up/Kills man (Joel) right after he saves her/Aimed to kill pregnant Dina before Lev stopped her vs. being kind to Lev lol Abby is written like a god-tier villain, while most find Lev has a more compelling character arc. Ellie's character had to be downgraded to bits and it drags the game down, because it wants to make everything so depressing without the actual feeling being there. The writing is absolute garbage in this game from nearly the beginning till the end.
You'd have to turn your brain off and take the narration as gospel to not notice that Abby gives no fucks about killing Joel right after he saved her. The plot just shrugs it all off, but it's a crucial point where they meet.
Abby and crew should've grown closer to Joel and company, then you can have that payoff where you understand who she is and a betrayal occurs. Instead, she's portrayed like a sociopath for a large portion of the game.
Ellie's character had to be downgraded to bits and it drags the game down, because it wants to make everything so depressing without the actual feeling being there. The writing is absolute garbage in this game from nearly the beginning till the end.
People didn’t like one of the most beloved characters of last generation (perhaps all time gaming) being used as a simple plot device.
And? Her goal was to kill him, she has no ode to ignore that simply because he saved her, if anything it shows just how serious it is that even that act couldn't stop her from killing him.
So sure, its disrespectful because its suppose to be. Why the fuck would it be "respectful"? Abby has no ode to be "respectful" to such a person, just the opposite.
You are not suppose to know that prior as the point is to surprise the user. Why the fuck would they spoil the plot?
Good. She's not suppose to.... Joel saving her doesn't make them even or something lol Thats not enough for her to stop, shit that wouldn't be enough for me. I'd still kill him if not WORSE then what she did.
Nope. They have no fucking reason to. She is there to kill him and go. Thus....she kills him and goes.
Nah, none of that bud. The way it was done was damn near perfect. They leave you in the dark as to allow you to have her..
She must be seen as that as it needs to be from ELLIE'S PERSPECTIVE! This is done to allow the player to question the mystery of why this person did this and to allow your hate and anger to grow.
I fucking LOVED IT! I was pissed off, wanted her dead and by the time I got to her part and actually saw WHY, i was conflicted. I spent a lot of the game really hating her and wanting her dead, but I want her dead based on only 1 fucking thing I know about her..... thats kinda the point. They WANT the player to feel that. So how the fuck could you know this information when the game starts? It starts from Ellie's perspective and it makes sense to leave it like that for the first half to allow you to feel what she feels.
Can't really do that if you already know WHY Abby is there from the jump. They want you as confused and angry as Ellie.
Thats the point. What the characters do is debatable to many in terms of good or evil, ie Joel at the very ending of The Last Of Us 1. That has been debated by my friends and I for years as I was in the camp of I believe he did far more harm then good, my friends supported him and saw his perspective.
It isn't a fucking good vs evil concept, its a gray area, the series has always been that. You decided to also ignore Abby saving Lev's life, Abby saving many lives part of WLF, her relationship with Owen etc. From their perspective, they are the "good guys".
So you could argue the same fucking shit about Joel btw and say shit like " for being a piece of shit and a scumbag human being.", never mind Abby killing Joel, Joel basically set back hundreds of thousnads of lives by the vaccine slowing down development. If it happened or not is debatable, but he set it back regardless. You still see Joel singing, laughing and being a kind person, doesn't mean he has not killed many innocent folks.
So sorry man, you only want to focus on shit that fits a narrative, you conveniently ignored everything else they showed about Abby.
The characters are made to show you most times in life, a good vs evil concept doesn't exist as much as we want it to. Many people seek revenge that otherwise are normally good hearted people and we only see the darkest side of them when they do 1 thing bad. So you a seem to be fixed on only talking about negative things about Abby when even the people who don't like the game admitted the game does show you a different side of Abby (though they state the game tries to FORCE you to like her, besides the point) its the fact that such things exist in the game, so its simply false that she is only some monster killer type character.
For better or worse, factually you see many sides of this character just like you see Joel, Ellie etc. We can debate if we liked it or good vs bad all day, but for fucks sake don't go around out right lying about factual things that can be found in the game.
Debate if you like the side of her shown, no reason to out right debate if such a side was shown at all as its just a lie that anyone can easily disprove.
Lastly, the writing was done just fine. You are asking for the mystery to be taken out of a game where a large part of it was made to be a mystery.
It would be like saying the writing in Matlock is bad as you should have hte show marketed showing you the bad guy and we should all know the fucking bad guy and why he is the murder within 5 minutes of an episode.
That doesn't sound like you have a thing against bad writing sir, that sounds like you need not play games about mysteries if you don't like mysteries.
Are you even trying comprehending what he wrote, or is this full on defense mode?The plot wasn't sped up. Joel's death just happened at the beginning, but that wasn't the "end" of Joel's story.
After Joel's death we see the progression of Joel and Ellie's relationship over the past 5 years.
You actually think people's hatred goes away if someone saves you if that person was reasonable for killing a loved one. The difference between Abby and Jerry is that Jerry was her father for years, and Ellie only knew Joel for 5 years, and at least 2 of those years she spent hating Joel.
Super heroes save villains life all the time, yet no one says, "Wow. Batman saved their life and they're still trying to kill Batman?".
People are motivated by hatred. Abby hated the man for years and that's not going to go away just because Joel saved her life.
Then you have no plot real. There's nothing that drives the story forward. You're going to play the entire game with characters having a theory session.
I swear, people who criticize the writing don't really think things through.
This is the fallout of Joel's decision to save Ellie and it's not a happy outcome many deranged fans were expecting.
Are you even trying comprehending what he wrote, or is this full on defense mode?
it’s a fictional story, you do understand that right? People can have subjective feelings about how effective they think the writing was
And? Her goal was to kill him, she has no ode to ignore that simply because he saved her, if anything it shows just how serious it is that even that act couldn't stop her from killing him.
So sure, its disrespectful because its suppose to be. Why the fuck would it be "respectful"? Abby has no ode to be "respectful" to such a person, just the opposite.
You are not suppose to know that prior as the point is to surprise the user. Why the fuck would they spoil the plot?
Good. She's not suppose to.... Joel saving her doesn't make them even or something lol Thats not enough for her to stop, shit that wouldn't be enough for me. I'd still kill him if not WORSE then what she did.
Nope. They have no fucking reason to. She is there to kill him and go. Thus....she kills him and goes.
Nah, none of that bud. The way it was done was damn near perfect. They leave you in the dark as to allow you to have her..
She must be seen as that as it needs to be from ELLIE'S PERSPECTIVE! This is done to allow the player to question the mystery of why this person did this and to allow your hate and anger to grow.
I fucking LOVED IT! I was pissed off, wanted her dead and by the time I got to her part and actually saw WHY, i was conflicted. I spent a lot of the game really hating her and wanting her dead, but I want her dead based on only 1 fucking thing I know about her..... thats kinda the point. They WANT the player to feel that. So how the fuck could you know this information when the game starts? It starts from Ellie's perspective and it makes sense to leave it like that for the first half to allow you to feel what she feels.
Can't really do that if you already know WHY Abby is there from the jump. They want you as confused and angry as Ellie.
Thats the point. What the characters do is debatable to many in terms of good or evil, ie Joel at the very ending of The Last Of Us 1. That has been debated by my friends and I for years as I was in the camp of I believe he did far more harm then good, my friends supported him and saw his perspective.
It isn't a fucking good vs evil concept, its a gray area, the series has always been that. You decided to also ignore Abby saving Lev's life, Abby saving many lives part of WLF, her relationship with Owen etc. From their perspective, they are the "good guys".
So you could argue the same fucking shit about Joel btw and say shit like " for being a piece of shit and a scumbag human being.", never mind Abby killing Joel, Joel basically set back hundreds of thousnads of lives by the vaccine slowing down development. If it happened or not is debatable, but he set it back regardless. You still see Joel singing, laughing and being a kind person, doesn't mean he has not killed many innocent folks.
So sorry man, you only want to focus on shit that fits a narrative, you conveniently ignored everything else they showed about Abby.
The characters are made to show you most times in life, a good vs evil concept doesn't exist as much as we want it to. Many people seek revenge that otherwise are normally good hearted people and we only see the darkest side of them when they do 1 thing bad. So you a seem to be fixed on only talking about negative things about Abby when even the people who don't like the game admitted the game does show you a different side of Abby (though they state the game tries to FORCE you to like her, besides the point) its the fact that such things exist in the game, so its simply false that she is only some monster killer type character.
For better or worse, factually you see many sides of this character just like you see Joel, Ellie etc. We can debate if we liked it or good vs bad all day, but for fucks sake don't go around out right lying about factual things that can be found in the game.
Debate if you like the side of her shown, no reason to out right debate if such a side was shown at all as its just a lie that anyone can easily disprove.
Lastly, the writing was done just fine. You are asking for the mystery to be taken out of a game where a large part of it was made to be a mystery.
It would be like saying the writing in Matlock is bad as you should have hte show marketed showing you the bad guy and we should all know the fucking bad guy and why he is the murder within 5 minutes of an episode.
That doesn't sound like you have a thing against bad writing sir, that sounds like you need not play games about mysteries if you don't like mysteries.
Anybody that played the game (and it has the best completion rate of any game in PlayStation 4) can see:
- The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.
- The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.
- Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).
- The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.
- The enemy variety is now way better.
- The weapons and craft items are way better than original.
- The world and environment are fantastic.
- Side activities are great.
- It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.
The game is everything a sequel should be.
It is a must to play even if you get down due violence.
So I really can't understand the hate some GAFers has with one of the best games ever created.
PS. I really can't even understand the political controversy... I really can't see politics in the game... maybe because I'm not American? I don't know.
Edit - Making this thread just me miss even more Factions MP... I blamed ND for that and I will continue doing that because that decision was utter shit.
Sorry but this is bullshit. THE WHOLE Game is all about JOEL. EVERYTHING in this game is motivated by Joel or Joels Death. There is nothing in the story except the side quest with Abby. I have no problems with letting Joel die. I have also no problem to let Ellie on a Revenge trip. The Problem is the Section with Abby which breaks the pacing.The reason its like beating a dead horse is because most people's rationale for hating the game boils down to the game not being the Joel-centric fan service story they wanted, and/or because its writer director is a member of the political tribe they are opposed to.
Its really that simple, especially as neither of those things should be considered as faults.
Sorry, but from where I stand if you're the sort of "fan" who believes their affection for a property should act as an ironclad creative strait-jacket preventing its author from going wherever their muse/instinct takes them, you're not really a fan at all.
Similarly if we are to start shitting on works just because their creator holds political beliefs we do not share, then why not join Resetera? That's been their MO from day#1.
The plot wasn't sped up. Joel's death just happened at the beginning, but that wasn't the "end" of Joel's story.
After Joel's death we see the progression of Joel and Ellie's relationship over the past 5 years.
You actually think people's hatred goes away if someone saves you if that person was reasonable for killing a loved one. The difference between Abby and Jerry is that Jerry was her father for years, and Ellie only knew Joel for 5 years, and at least 2 of those years she spent hating Joel.
Super heroes save villains life all the time, yet no one says, "Wow. Batman saved their life and they're still trying to kill Batman?".
People are motivated by hatred. Abby hated the man for years and that's not going to go away just because Joel saved her life.
Then you have no plot real. There's nothing that drives the story forward. You're going to play the entire game with characters having a theory session.
I swear, people who criticize the writing don't really think things through.
This is the fallout of Joel's decision to save Ellie and it's not a happy outcome many deranged fans were expecting.
It is a big coincidence when there was also a horde and blizzard going on forcing the encounter with Joel and Abby&Co.I disagree, not an insane coincidence of running into Joel because Abby and Gang were in the area tracking them. Its like you bumping into a friend at a local bar you both frequent. But I don’t know may be that’s an insane coincidence to you.
This is the other thing I really don’t get, people assuming that it was trying to be overly “woke”. I didn’t get that at all.just wokeness shooting itself in the foot
You know there’s a prompt when you can interact with something right? lolThe story and characters were as predictable and one note as a low budget TBS drama, and I spent what seems like 70% of my play time mashing triangle along every wall, corner, and desk in the game. It was an overly long and gratingly boring experience.
It was definitely sped up. The dilemma to make Abby interesting lies in her ability to contrast the idea of going through with killing Joel, once she figures out who he is, and leaving him to live, because he saved her. Instead, the game rushes in with "oh.... this is Tommy.....oh.... this is Joel Miller.... please watch him die" like an hour into playing. Any reasonable person would have the emotional dissonance between those two ideas, having contrasting emotions. Instead, Ellie has the emotional dissonance in the ending, where she can't decide whether to kill or spare Abby, despite going through nearly nothing to earn it. She has some "Jin in his Tekken 4 ending" shit where the spirit of Joel suddenly compels her to not do it. I wasn't talking Joel's parts in it, but those flashbacks involving him were the most interesting lol
Do you know you're practically admitting that Abby is a villain then, right? The interest in Batman comes from whether he will succumb to evil and finally kill the villains or remain in his ways. Nobody cares about the conviction of the villains, because they mostly exist as pure evil, instead of morally "grey". A lot of the anti-heroes exist in the "grey" area.
What are you talking about? The plot is literally in front of your face. It's better than Joel getting killed an hour in, and isn't rushed. Flesh out Abby and make the dilemma a big point of Pt. 2, which would set up the clash between Ellie v. Abby in Pt. 3. Nobody asked for the outcome to be "happy", just not shit. Stop being a fanboy
The game was not the politics behind it and the reasoning why people hate this game was. If you use the excuse because gamer hate women as argument for all the critic of this game you already lost IMO.This is the other thing I really don’t get, people assuming that it was trying to be overly “woke”. I didn’t get that at all.
No not the dialogue, The structure, the pacing, the way how it forces you to situations, how they did rewrite characters personalities to make it more plausible etc. The Acting is still got, the cut etc is still TOP but the overall writing is so bad to me compared to the other game. Also all these new Characters get not time for development except maybe Abby and Lev the rest is just there waiting to be killed.And complaining that the writing was awful? Like, the dialogue? I thought it was great in the main, really natural.
Actually enjoyed it once I ignored all the political and social justice forced stuff, probably my SP goty honestly.
Becouse they are insecure shit head, that's why, and they also think that gaming isnt mature media like movies and tv.
Those fuckers think that they own gaming media and if somebody make even little wrong game, thos fuckers attack.
We have a long way to go, if gaming is going to be like movies and shows, first we need to ditch those fuckin fanboys!
Many people who don't like the game actually had a very simple and short answer. They didn't like Joel getting whacked. He was the main character of the first game and a kick ass character which gamers like in games. Some gamers didn't like the double female/double plots.Joel's death takes Ellie on her journey. If you delay this act, then you would have to fill in the first part of the game with with something.
What would it be?
Oh right, you want people just go to therapy sessions while Abby tries to forgive Joel. This is a action video game and not some sitcom.
I'm not. People are costumed by hatred will not automatically change by an act of kindness. You miss the point of the batman reference just like you missed key details in this story.
Your logic is that because Joel saved Abby, that means Abby should forgive him.
Terrible idea.
You're delaying the inevitable. You will spend Part II and Part III with an Abby\Ellie arc when something needs to lead to Fireflies and Ellie coming together for a cure.
You criticism leaves so many holes in the story in which you think is better when it's not. The more you try to find "a better story" deviates from the path of the original.
Many people who don't like the game actually had a very simple and short answer. They didn't like Joel getting whacked. He was the main character of the first game and a kick ass character which gamers like in games. Some gamers didn't like the double female/double plots.
So what longwinded excuse do you have for these gamers?