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[XtremeXpider]

No. It seems you lack some fundamental understanding of that which you're arguing so aggressively. But I really couldn't care less...

This thread and its jokes will live beyond the lifespan of the console itself. 'Tis the nature of the internet. So, you continue arguing out of pride, no matter how misinformed you or any of your 'opposers' are. I'm off to surf the beautiful horror that is the world wide web.

Enjoy slapping your dick about.

What?

 

[MoonLightWave]

From my experience of counting polygons in games.

Oh wow, please.

 

[Oblivion]

at least it was 720pp no AA, with not crazy geometry, in a closed and simple room. The light wasn't dynamic, plus it wasn't gameplay so it should be compared to real time cut scenes in current gen games.

Yeah, I know all that but no one's given me an answer on the frame rate.

 

[JordanN]

"As of what said" that was my original sentence, somewhat ended up like i posted.

but today polycount doesn't matter that much still stand and what you described is not that much

Edit: I'm still confused what exactly are you trying to say? I'm not disagreeing games can't have one million poly counts.

And then you bring up shaders which doesn't have to do with what I'm saying.

What

Someone said "how did you get those numbers" and I said "from previous polycounting".

 

[phosphor112]

LMAO. Wow, this thread.
Do it then.

I don't see why anyone bothers responding to JordaN. This guy is having a meltdown in this thread.

 

[SapientWolf]

So we have a GPGPU with an out of order CPU to help complement the GPU.

Sort of like a hybrid where the GPU is the is the gas engine that really drives the car and the CPU is the electric battery there to help give the car its initial jolt and take part of the load off of the engine.

Getting the most of the Wii U will involve properly utilizing the CPU to handle code branching while allowing the GPU to handle the raw throughput once the branch is determined.

What do we know about the cache on the Wii U? I seem to recall hearing that i would have an L3 cache. A large cache along with a large, but slow RAM pool could prove useful, as you could cache some of the CPU instruction sets for fast access while keeping the high-volume data about your game environment (world parameters, graphics and the like) in RAM for the GPU

The way to get the most out of the Wii U would be to use the GPU for easily parallelizable algorithms with large data sets (i.e. the graphics) while using the CPU to handle the game logic. The GPGPU can then be used to give everyone false hope.

 

[Pachinko]

It's really sounding like all the specs on the Wii U don't work quite as simply straight across from a 360/ps3 setup. I mean if you'd told me these raw numbers months ago I'd say there'd be no way a wii U port would look anywhere close to as good as the 360/ps3 versions do. I'd be expecting half the framerate at best , so obviously given that many of the launch titles are running roughly on par or slightly worse (15-25% framerate drops seem to be the norm) compared to the 360 versions , it tells me there's more going on under the hood there. Almost like, if you rebuilt some of these games from the ground up for the wii U they'd look 100% the same if not a little better (even if it's clocked lower, having twice the ram is only going to help). None of them have been rebuilt though, there were ported from architectures where that raw math in the terms we're all used to seeing is all that matters.

This just makes me more curious what the wii U is ultimately capable of- like many others I buy nintendo consoles for nintendo games and nothing else (although in this case bayonetta 2 and wonderful 101 look to be obvious purchases). So frankly , just the thought of finally playing an HD mario galaxy or HD zelda are enough. I realize this may not be what all purchasers want from the system but to expect nintendo to go from the wii (which was an overclocked gamecube) to a mythical wii U that could match whatever sony and MS come up with next was just never going to happen.

 

[lethial]

This is Smithsonian preservation material level. I'll have this carved in glass and glued to my monitor so i should never forget. The stuff of legends!

What are you, 12?

 

[cRIPticon]

Ha! I never expected the its not-fair-to-compare-2012-console-to-2005-console defense.
Oh wait yes I did - its as predictable as the sun rising in the east in Wii U threads.

Hurr hurr.

That was a decent try, but that's not the real comparison being made. The point was that the engine and tools used in games on the 360/PS3 have been optimized for years on those platforms, not so for the WiiU.

 

[GaimeGuy]

It's really sounding like all the specs on the Wii U don't work quite as simply straight across from a 360/ps3 setup. I mean if you'd told me these raw numbers months ago I'd say there'd be no way a wii U port would look anywhere close to as good as the 360/ps3 versions do. I'd be expecting half the framerate at best , so obviously given that many of the launch titles are running roughly on par or slightly worse (15-25% framerate drops seem to be the norm) compared to the 360 versions , it tells me there's more going on under the hood there. Almost like, if you rebuilt some of these games from the ground up for the wii U they'd look 100% the same if not a little better (even if it's clocked lower, having twice the ram is only going to help). None of them have been rebuilt though, there were ported from architectures where that raw math in the terms we're all used to seeing is all that matters.

This just makes me more curious what the wii U is ultimately capable of- like many others I buy nintendo consoles for nintendo games and nothing else (although in this case bayonetta 2 and wonderful 101 look to be obvious purchases). So frankly , just the thought of finally playing an HD mario galaxy or HD zelda are enough. I realize this may not be what all purchasers want from the system but to expect nintendo to go from the wii (which was an overclocked gamecube) to a mythical wii U that could match whatever sony and MS come up with next was just never going to happen.

It seems like the kind of system that would be a nightmare for japanese developers, TBH.

 

[mokeyjoe]

From my experience of counting polygons in games.

Man, I bet the bet the panties just drop like confetti when you pull that line out of the bag don't they.

Honestly, the pure liquid shit that flies around these system wars threads is like nothing else on Earth. This generation has gone on too long, I'm feeling weirdly nostalgic about all this. Remember blast processing?

 

[EviLore]

From my experience of counting polygons in games.

Do tell.

 

[Pie and Beans]

can this thread just be about everyone's experiences counting polygons in games?

From my experience of counting polygons in games.

Do tell.

Lets start with an easy one:

 

[ikioi]

IMHO its way to early to write off the Wii U as being under powered vs the current gen, or even barely capable of suprassing them. No question that the system wont be anywhere near the next Playstation or Xbox, but i think a lot of the critisism and negativity in this thread is premature and unfair.

A lot of the 3rd party games that have been ported to the Wii U, ie Assasin's Creed 3, Mass Effect 3, COD 3 etc, are running on engines that were originally developed for the Xbox 360 and PS3. Also a lof of these games appear to have been ported to the Wii U by small teams, within short periods of time, and with limited budgets. Then we have the architectural differences between the Wii U and the HD twins, they appear to be quite significant. Despite all this complexities, the Wii U version of Mass Effect 3 runs at a higher average frame rate then the PS3.

Also from what has been said by GAF members like Matt, most if not all of the current 3rd party titles out at launch were developed on immature and older SDKs. Lets see how things improve once the SDKs mature, system updates, developer understanding of the architecture improves, middleware tools envolve, and we start seeing engines built specifically for the Wii U.

Once these things happen, that's when we'll be able to gauge realistically the capabilities of the Wii U.

 

[TUROK]

This is Smithsonian preservation material level. I'll have this carved in glass and glued to my monitor so i should never forget. The stuff of legends!

It really really isn't. The 360's hardware was new at the time, and developers were at a point in which programmable pixel and vertex pipelines were still relatively new to a lot of developers, especially ones that developed primarily for the PS2 and Gamecube.

The Wii U's hardware isn't exactly cutting edge, and even though there are some programmers that probably don't have much experience in programming for OOE processors or GPGPU's, I can't imagine them being anything other than a minority.

 

[JordanN]

Do tell.

Is there a right or wrong answer? >_<

 

[Boss Man]

Lets start with an easy one:

At least 200,000 by my count, plus 150,000 more to the gamepad.

 

[Fox318]

JordanN
Professional Polycounter
(Today, 07:30 PM)

 

[Asherdude]

Nintendo did the same thing to the SNES, but it turned out ok. Actually better than OK. But in 1992, the same fears were expressed that I'm seeing today.

Here's a snapshot of EGM's 1992 Buyers Guide stating the same issues that people are having with the Wii U.

 

[cRIPticon]

If the Wii U were even a factor of 2x more powerful than the 360 there'd be no problem running unoptimized ports on it.

SHOW YOUR WORK. Love these outright affirmations. If it's all down to horsepower, then please explain, oh pick a semi-recent example of engine parity on equivalent platforms. Skyrim performance on XBox360 vs PS3. GO!

Point is, non-optimized code can cripple a powerful system. Your assertion holds no weight unless you can see what the devs did or did not do.

 

[TaroYamada]

At least 200,000 by my count, plus 150,000 more to the gamepad.

I counted like 18 or 19 plus the 150k to the gamepad.

 

[Perkel]

When did I say its unfair to compare to old consoles with hardware? I was talking about software and devs experience. We all knew Wii U wont be cutting edge, its better than current consoles but its not going to match what PS4/720 is going to be doing under the hood. We all know this.

Wii U isnt part of the same gen as 360/PS3.

CPU isnt as weak as you think, have you read anything that marcan has said?

People should get over semantics and start to call things what they are. WiiU is just late PS360 era hardware. Nintendo bailed out from normal console cycle with Wii. Calling it next gen won't change the fact that it will play mostly current gen games (if PS420 will be as expected)

 

[Boss Man]

Nintendo did the same thing to the SNES, but it turned out ok. Actually better than OK. But in 1992, the same fears were expressed that I'm seeing today.

Here's a snapshot of EGM's 1992 Buyers Guide stating the same issues that people are having with the Wii U.

Huh? SNES is capable of 48 more sprites.

Edit: Hahaha, # of games?

 

[mokeyjoe]

IMHO its way to early to write off the Wii U as being under powered vs the current gen, or even barely capable of suprassing them. No question that the system wont be anywhere near the next Playstation or Xbox, but i think a lot of the critisism and negativity in this thread is premature and unfair.

A lot of the 3rd party games that have been ported to the Wii U, ie Assasin's Creed 3, Mass Effect 3, COD 3 etc, are running on engines that were originally developed for the Xbox 360 and PS3. Also a lof of these games appear to have been ported to the Wii U by small teams, within short periods of time, and with limited budgets. Then we have the architectural differences between the Wii U and the HD twins, they appear to be quite significant. Despite all this complexities, the Wii U version of Mass Effect 3 runs at a higher average frame rate then the PS3.

Also from what has been said by GAF members like Matt, most if not all of the current 3rd party titles out at launch were developed on immature and older SDKs. Lets see how things improve once the SDKs mature, system updates, developer understanding of the architecture improves, middleware tools envolve, and we start seeing engines built specifically for the Wii U.

Once these things happen, that's when we'll be able to gauge realistically the capabilities of the Wii U.

Exactly, I mean we know how powerful the Wii U is because we've seen , and some have played, some quick and dirty ports of PS360 games and they're slightly less impressive than the originals. So common sense would suggest the Wii U seems to achieve parity with the current gen of consoles. But of course that's not what this thread is about is it? So continue...

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Is there a right or wrong answer? >_<

There is only truth. For example, if you was kidding say so, if you actually have a method of trying to count polygons, people are interested in how you could possibly do so. Revealing your method could be educational, though some will probably call it crazy if it sounds funny.

 

[Gahiggidy]

What about the bird demo? The one shown on the show floor?

*shrugs*

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Nintendo did the same thing to the SNES, but it turned out ok. Actually better than OK. But in 1992, the same fears were expressed that I'm seeing today.

Here's a snapshot of EGM's 1992 Buyers Guide stating the same issues that people are having with the Wii U.

And thats why true hardcore gamers passed on the SNES. Why would they get that when the NeoGeo was already out and more powerful?

 

[Jake Tower]

From my experience of counting polygons in games.

Definitely 500,000 polygons.

*not intended to disparage differently-abled people in any way, just poking fun at JordanN's apparent assertion of being the Rain Man of polygon counting*

 

[JordanN]

There is only truth. For example, if you was kidding say so, if you actually have a method of trying to count polygons, people are interested in how you could possibly do so. Revealing your method could be educational, though some will probably call it crazy if it sounds funny.

I already said before, it's a combination of looking at the mesh and making cross comparisons to other console generation polycounts.

I'm not even the first person to do this. I actually learned from a developer who had experience in this.

 

[Perkel]

And thats why true hardcore gamers passed on the SNES. Why would they get that when the NeoGeo was already out and more powerful?

Let's pretend that there is no competition now and third party publishers/devs are minority.

 

[Arozay]

I counted like 18 or 19 plus the 150k to the gamepad.

Rookie, didn't even consider the mesh.

 

[Oblivion]

Huh? SNES is capable of 48 more sprites.

How many sprites can Wii-U generate, though?

Double?

 

[Mudkips]

I already said before, it's a combination of looking at the mesh and making cross comparisons to other gen's polycounts.

So you look at it and make a guess based upon how it looks compared to another game you counted (by looking at it and guessing based upon how it looks compared to another game you counted).

 

[Zombie James]

Nintendo did the same thing to the SNES, but it turned out ok. Actually better than OK. But in 1992, the same fears were expressed that I'm seeing today.

Here's a snapshot of EGM's 1992 Buyers Guide stating the same issues that people are having with the Wii U.

Completely different circumstances. For one, the Genesis was only on the (North American) market for two years before the SNES launched. That generation was still new, and it'd be another 3-4 years before the Saturn surprise launched. The Wii U is coming on the tail end of an already long generation of 7+ years. If the Wii U launched in 2007, fairer comparison.

edit: Also keep in mind that a lot of SNES games used add-on chips for extra performance (even some launch games).

 

[Horsemama1956]

lol I searched for the '93 holiday scores and the Genesis and SNES switched places. Not really sure of the point that those images are trying to prove.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Let's pretend that there is no competition now and third party publishers/devs are minority.

I like pretending. I used to pretend I wasn't suffering when I was playing Chrono Trigger on the SNES instead of a real console.

 

[Boss Man]

lol I searched for the '93 holiday scores and the Genesis and SNES switched places. Not really sure of the point that those images are trying to prove.

SNES had a slower processor than the Genesis but it still pushed mad sprites with its limited MHz, so Wii U is cool even though it's struggling to keep up with seven year old tech.

Video games never changes.

 

[Stinkles]

What

Sssh, he is not done with Virtua Racer yet. You will make him lose count.

 

[syko de4d]

here for the people which want to count polygons

Have fun

this are

Spoiler

7 million polygons

True next gen

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

*shrugs*

Yea I know it doesnt exist right? lol..

 

[Glorified G]

This is how the world turns.

I laughed too much at this post.

Man, I bet the bet the panties just drop like confetti when you pull that line out of the bag don't they.

lolz, this too.

 

[Reiko]

Nintendo did the same thing to the SNES, but it turned out ok. Actually better than OK. But in 1992, the same fears were expressed that I'm seeing today.

Here's a snapshot of EGM's 1992 Buyers Guide stating the same issues that people are having with the Wii U.

]

I remember hardware scaling and rotation in Gunstar Heroes and The Adventures of Batman & Robin. Maybe those used a special chip.

 

[Darryl]

shouldn't someone with a good experience in 3d modeling be able to ballpark polygon estimates?

 

[Arkam]

Apparently, according to a link further up, bgassassin suggested they actually switched the core type after the first kit, not just clockspeed. That the core was originally something more xenon like with mt per core etc. But I don't know if that's true or not.

Yea that's not true. Was more or less same CPU whole time. Only real CPU change was the clock speed was raised 25% between I believe Cat-Dev V3 and V4.

 

[Van Owen]

Yea that's not true. Was more or less same CPU whole time. Only real CPU change was the clock speed was raised 25% between I believe Cat-Dev V3 and V4.

lol Jesus, to think it could have been worse.

 

[metalslimer]

Yea that's not true. Was more or less same CPU whole time. Only real CPU change was the clock speed was raised 25% between I believe Cat-Dev V3 and V4.

Holy crap.

 

[Sho Nuff]

I already said before, it's a combination of looking at the mesh and making cross comparisons to other console generation polycounts.

I'm not even the first person to do this. I actually learned from a developer who had experience in this.

As a developer I can confidently state that this polygon-counting skill is a dark art that should not be discussed in public. You are crossing some lines admitting that you have this ability, Jordan.

 

[MutFox]

People saying that the Wii U isn't next gen? WTF?
A new way to play is "Next-Gen"

Yeah, multi platform games with next xbox or ps will look worse on the WiiU,
but so did games on the PS2 compared to the gamecube and xbox.

Though I am certain that some games that come out on Wii U,
will have us wondering how it looks so good on there.
Just like how people are amazed at how good Mario Galaxy looks.

Though if people really want the best looking/performing multi platform title,
they'll obviously get the PC version...

Also, people worried about Bayonetta2 on the Wii U?
It'll be fine, it's being built from the ground up on that console.
All gameplay and design choices will be built around the strengths and weaknesses of the console.

 

[Pociask]

here for the people which want to count polygons


Have fun

this are

Spoiler

7 million polygons

True next gen

Well, you got your big old spaceship there, and then a few tiny spaceships on top, and once you consider the mesh, I'd have to say about 30 polygons. I can tell from some of the pixels and having seen quite a few polygons in my day.

 

[theman5141]

ITT: My prognosis of the Wii U is far superior to yours, and it'll totally come to fruition because my inside view is only the best resource available.