Yes. It runs "skybox and two cubes" on Ultra Max Hammer Detail.Now: does this popular engine run on Wii U with the same settings as on 360/PS3?
Yes. It runs "skybox and two cubes" on Ultra Max Hammer Detail.Now: does this popular engine run on Wii U with the same settings as on 360/PS3?
Lherre is a confirmed dev, and he has direct access to kits.
It could have been a simple typing mistake on his part.
You're drinking again huh Pyro?hopefully they don't have to sign NDAs.
Thanks to share this info, and yes V5 (well they have another code name) kits exist (only in Nintendo headquarters I think). Although I don't think they will have big changes.
I think 5x is too optimistic (at least now) in my opinion. I saw some performance data of a very famous engine running on Wii U and the results aren't very optimistic-good right now with simple demos (in V5 kits they have only a minor improve in framerate). It can be optimization of course but right now it is far from the step I want from a new generation.
But we will see this next months and the things in the gdc.
The data is from nintendo own tests. But are preliminar I think they will improve it quickly (or at least I hope). And no, it's not UE4. It's a current engine.
It's too soon to compare, I won't say 2x or 5x or a number sorry. I only saw that a current engine is not optimze yet for the machine but I think they will improve it and will run like all of us want to see (or at least I hope)
CryEngine 3?it's dat frostbite 2.0 isn't it
So it couldn't run Battlefield 3 maxed out at 4000K with 8x msaa?
Lherre is a confirmed dev, and he has direct access to kits.
It could have been a simple typing mistake on his part.
Nothing against lherre at all, but how do we know this? The fact that people can be banned for giving false information is not much of a deterrent when there's no way to confirm the info as true or false.
We've gone through multiple people jumping in with insider info, some confirmed as having an email address from a developer and their info doesn't all line up.
I don't know that the email address confirmation + the threat of a ban is a sufficient one-two combo to weed out trolls or hype-feeders.
Once again, NOT saying that lherre specifically is a troll, but I think we're tossing out our salt-shakers just a little too eagerly.
you can do whatever your heart desiresOnly 2000K sorry
To the rest, I can't answer all your questions (first because I have to sleep, and second because I can't)
saving it for post e3You're drinking again huh Pyro?
it's time for you to make a long reasonable post explaining everyone what we know so everyone can calm down....go!Lherre was confirmed a LONG time ago.
And actually no one as of yet (including Arkam) has posted something that doesn't completely line up with what we know.
The lengthy NDA has some loopholes due to certain ways of communication Nintendo has not considered, so if you are feeling bold you could always find those and provide us with some goodies. I of course don't recommend you to do anything risky, but some solid details about for example the memory pool(s) would be most intriguing.Only 2000K sorry
To the rest, I can't answer all your questions (first because I have to sleep, and second because I can't)
What I want to know is if games looking as detailed as the Bird Demo are doable?
Here we go again...
This is weird. Whenever we hear about hardware figures, we consistently hear figures indicating 2+ x performance increases, but whenever we hear about software it seems Nintendo has duct taped an N64 onto a 360 and called it a day.
It's too soon to compare, I won't say 2x or 5x or a number sorry. I only saw that a current engine is not optimze yet for the machine but I think they will improve it and will run like all of us want to see (or at least I hope)
The speed of the image transmission feature from the screen to the controller is impressive, he tells us. The first time I saw Wii U, I thought, isnt the delay longer than one frame? If it is, its going to be difficult for fighting games. But when I heard that the latency actually isnt more than 1/60th second I was really happy.
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2008/12/08/zerowire_rivals_wirelesshdCalifornia-based Tzero Technologies has demonstrated its new second generation ZeroWire in Tokyo. The new ZeroWire enables wireless HDMI transmission with Ultra Wideband (UWB) technology, which is able to transfer Full HD (1080p) resolution video at 60 frames per second. The product is at first targeted at Japanese market, but has passed the regulatory tests in Europe and the U.S. as well.
Tzero calls ZeroWire the first commercially viable wireless HDMI solution with an estimated material cost of less than $50. It support HDMI 1.3a and HDCP and therefore is "Hollywood Approved", according to the press release. With 480 Mbit bandwidth the ZeroWire is able to transmit Full HD resolution video and 7.1 digital surround audio at ranges greater than 20 meters.
Goodbye to another ultra-wideband company. Tzero Technologies has shut down its business of making wireless chips for transferring high-speed video from one consumer electronics device to another, according to an EE Times report... The company joins a shakeout in UWB that has claimed WiQuest and Focus Enhancements. Artimi merged with Staccato. UWB started with much fanfare as a way to get rid of wires between consumer devices and an easy way to move high-definition video around the home.
Lherre was confirmed a LONG time ago.
And actually no one as of yet (including Arkam) has posted something that doesn't completely line up with what we know.
it's time for you to make a long reasonable post explaining everyone what we know so everyone can calm down....go!
I still don't agree that Arkams info actually lines up. For instance the difference in RAM amounts he talked about, of course it can be explained, but the fact is it does require explanation, it doesn't just line up.
Could be a massive bunch of stuff. From trivial to not at all. E.g. if it's frostbite, then it could be something about the way the engine dispatches work packets to the CPU cores (that engine is on the tech front of symmetric cores utilisation). But it could be something really trivial as well - say, the way GPU command buffers/lists are built. Or something in the GPU buffer fences/syncs. Or something in the preferred GPU buffer types - the GPU caches might prefer one shape of data over another. Literally, it could be gazillion of things - that's why highly paid 'core tech' teams are taking care of those things - to have an engine 'just running' on a platform is far from to have it production-ready.Blu can you chime in with some dev knowledge here? My graphic dev skills are pretty rudimentary. What parts of a current engine would not be running fully optimized on the Wii U. I thought it was pretty much going to be the same type of tech as current gen, just faster. I'm thinking it would really only be something like how the engine uses its main RAM and EDRAM. Would an engine that was enhanced for optimised EDRAM use provide a noticeable boost over an engine that had to use little to no EDRAM?
Good question.
Lherre was confirmed a LONG time ago.
And actually no one as of yet (including Arkam) has posted something that doesn't completely line up with what we know.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and come to believe that the RAM amount is the biggest thing that will see the 4x/5x multiplier.
CPU: IBM POWER7 (Derivative) Tri-Core/2-Way SMT OoO Processor @ 3.0GHz
RAM: 2GB GDDR3/5 Unified + 32MB eDRAM Secondary Pool
GPU: Efficient 640SPU part that performs closer to a AMD Radeon HD 7770 than a 4830 (On a scale of 4830 - 5770/6770 - 7750 - Wii U[?] - 7770) on a 32nm process; 128bit Bus..
The thing is, playing just the PS3 or Xbox version, most gamers will just get use to the way it looks. But once you play the PC version on Max, you can't go back to playing the PS3 and Xbox version.
Don't forget that Xenos' design dates back to late 2004, I think that's when it taped out or whatever. Xenos was based on the canceled R400 project.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35522127&postcount=11529
I'm now even more convinced this is the path they're taking. If Sony and MS are going to wait 7-8 years for each console, people will start to get antsy for a new one about 4 or 5 years into it. If Nintendo plans to market a newer console in between times, they could really benefit.
HYPE GONE
If that's the case I have almost no hope for this machine.
lherre was inferring that it was struggling to run a current-gen engine.
What I want to know is if games looking as detailed as the Bird Demo are doable?
-Pyromaniac- said:I said this before and I'll say it again. I have no qualms with the WiiU not being as strong as people hope, even if it is ever so slightly better than this generation, AS LONG, and only as long as the price reflects that. If they price it cheap then no beef from me, I'll treat it as a nintendo hd system and be happy. But if they price it higher (which all indications seem it will be, by higher I mean 299+), then I expect performance to reflect that. And I think it will.
I still say, a completely reasonable expectation is visuals 2x better (generally) than this generation, but things like RAM obviously being much higher to take it to a higher level, making the price difference worth it (and a tablet controller lulz). All in all, people need to simmer down.
Like I said, I'm not even targeting lherre specifically. We just had another post today from someone who hasn't been confirmed, and no one questioned it (probably because it was so optimistic).
But as to lherre specifically, "confirmed a LONG time ago," means (as far as I know) "showed a mod that he has an email address at a developer." It doesn't matter how long ago it was, it was still the same process. Isn't that right?
Don't get me wrong, I think that GAF has a uniquely awesome system in that mods can check email addresses like that, but it's not foolproof. Like was pointed out with Arkam, he could have a former employee with an email address that's still active there, or he could be in finance, or... etc. I just think we need to remember that the possibility of at least 1 or 2 trolls or hype-feeders slipping through the system should keep us on our toes.
(And Arkam was saying his current dev kit [and he couldn't have believed it was one of the first dev kits since he talked about a "supposed new devkit, if it really exists"] is less powerful than the 360. lherre is saying that FIVE TIMES the power is probably not the case, implying that it's at least more powerful than a 360. Those two things don't line up.)
I think it lined up just fine with early dev kit info going back to the Cafe leaks that is. It was his opinion that was the problem as that didn't line up with what we knew. From the get go it sounded like the problem was with how his company designed the game(s) to work with PS360.
Could be a massive bunch of stuff. From trivial to not at all. E.g. if it's frostbite, then it could be something about the way the engine dispatches work packets to the CPU cores (that engine is on the tech front of symmetric cores utilisation). But it could be something really trivial as well - say, the way GPU command buffers/lists are built. Or something in the GPU buffer fences/syncs. Or something in the preferred GPU buffer types - the GPU caches might prefer one shape of data over another. Literally, it could be gazillion of things - that's why highly paid 'core tech' teams are taking care of those things - to have an engine 'just running' on a platform is far from to have it production-ready.
360 bundled with kinect is 299, they have a cheap sku without it for 199, which dips to 129-149 during big sales like the holidays (aka when wiiU launches). PS3 is 250 or less with a big harddrive included, bluray player, whatever else, and is also 200 or less come holiday time.Dude, the current gen systems are still selling at $299 for all intents and purposes.
Gamecube is to Wii, what 360 is to Wii U
Wii U will probably be 1.5x360
Cheers. While I understood all that, one thing I didn't realise is that the Wii U could be significantly different in these areas with room for optimisation that only it could do. I now hope that if this is the case, developers and engine makers take the time to add support for their engine to run as fast as possible.
Again, not exactly seeing why people are freaking out about what Llherre said...
He said that the engine and the system weren't optimized and he thinks that they'll get it to where he wants it to be as a developer...
How is that bad news?
1.5 x 360 = 540Gamecube is to Wii, what 360 is to Wii U
Wii U will probably be 1.5x360
The problem is that these are dev kits.
And it's brand new hardware.
Doesn't matter how easy Nintendo makes it to develop for, there is still a learning curve.
And this is why we're getting problems with the software vs the hardware.
I think Lherre is genuine, in fact I have little doubt of that. The only problem is the amazing ability people on the internet have to misinterpret sentences. Then the sheer number of "2+2=5 we're doomed" posts means he finds it hard to respond to questions that may clear things up. Also English clearly isn't his first language. But I appreciate Lherre being here and hopefully he can clear things up tomorrow.
It CAN line up with that, if we assume he's got access to a first gen kit. I'm just saying his info hardly fits like a glove over info from people like Lherre, that's all. I'm still very sceptical of anything Arkam says to be honest.
What I want to know is if games looking as detailed as the Bird Demo are doable?
It's pretty easy to figure out that the engine is probably Frostbite 2. Aliens uses a modified version of UE3 and Crytek has confirmed the Cryengine 3 was running on it without alluding to any hiccups.
I prefer year dates to multipliers. Say, the Wii U is "2010" technology. For comparison I'd guesstimate that GameCube was 2000 tech while Wii was 2002.
I think you and Ace are some of the most optimistic people that I have ever come across.
Actually, both the GC and Wii were 1999 hardware.
LOL. Considering the debate I had defending Sony in the this thread, I can't argue.
Dear me, this is the thread of misinterpretations
AFAIR he said that the new V5 kit is giving slightly better framerates then the V4 kit. Nothing about a comparison to current consoles.
Gamecube is to Wii, what 360 is to Wii U
Wii U will probably be 1.5x360
I think Lherre is genuine, in fact I have little doubt of that. The only problem is the amazing ability people on the internet have to misinterpret sentences. Then the sheer number of "2+2=5 we're doomed" posts means he finds it hard to respond to questions that may clear things up. Also English clearly isn't his first language. But I appreciate Lherre being here and hopefully he can clear things up tomorrow.
I still don't get. Is Nintendo using a external engine for its benchmarks?
Why llherre say that he hopes that Nintendo improves that for the next dev kit revision?
What has Nintendo to do with optimization of a thrid party engine... ?