Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
The talk of the Haptics stuff reminded me of this post I made 6 years ago...

Six year's ago I got a mouse from Logitech which had something called "iFeel", which used Immersion Corporation's TouchWare technology. What the iFeel mouse did was give a series of very subtle force-feedback vibrations through the casing of the mouse. Not as powerful as the rumble you get with N64 or GameCube controllers, but it had the ability to create various tactile sensations. For example, "Squeaky-Clean" felt like dragging your finger across plate-glass, mimicking the slippage in friction. There was "Electric" which vaguely reminded you of a light electric shock. Then there was "Rocky Road" which felt like crunching something. These sensations were mapped to the Windows interface and common applications. Every time you scrolled the cursor over a window's border, menu area, or hyperlink in IE, you got a little tactile response. It was pretty neat to try out, but not very useful for operating your computer.

I believe there is a good chance similar force-feedback technology will be that secret Nintendo as alluded about the Wii controller. The direct-pointing-device seems a little small to house traditional rumble motors. The iFeel motor is about the size of a quarter in diameter and a dime in thickness. And what better way to add the interactivity of the Wii controller than letting players "feel" objects in the environment? You could send a "pluck" vibration when Link let's go of an arrow. As you move the Wii controller from side to side to make Mario wall jump, you could feel the thud of each kick. The there is more practical uses like giving a little pulsating feedback when the controller's position moves near the boundary of the play area.

Or, it could be a microphone.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99037

Turns out the last feature was the speaker. I really wish they did have that iFeel tech in the wiimote. Its surprisingly convincing. Imagine playing the harp in Skyward Sword and being able to feel the "plucks" of each string.
 
Damn i read the T as an F the first time, lol

The difference between Sega and Nintendo is, that the latter has 1st Party games that DO sell extremely well. So i dont see the "dreamcast scenario" happening...
Bingo.

And while we're on the topic of doom: if anyone should come out fine from an industry crash, it would be Nintendo. They have an absolutely rabid fanbase, and have been the main supporter of their consoles for a decade now. Can you imagine Microsoft or Sony trying to support their consoles on their own? I hear folks say that Sony's first-party IPs are great, and I'm sure that they're quite lovelyand adorable, but they can't hold a candle to Nintendo's.

The Big Two are like a two-headed video game boss that you can't take down by yourself -but you can watch them hurt themselves. By pushing a remarkably unsustainable development paradigm, one-by-one we're going to lose third-party developers - and their third-party support will erode in the long run, leaving them leaning more and more on their first-party titles. They more than anyone should be cognizant of this, but you'd never be able to tell from the business models they're pushin'.

The talk of the Haptics stuff reminded me of this post I made 6 years ago...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99037

Turns out the last feature was the speaker. I really wish they did have that iFeel tech in the wiimote. Its surprisingly convincing. Imagine playing the harp in Skyward Sword and being able to feel the "plucks" of each string.
Maybe they found a good way to implement it? That'd be friggin' fantastic.
 
The talk of the Haptics stuff reminded me of this post I made 6 years ago...



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99037

Turns out the last feature was the speaker. I really wish they did have that iFeel tech in the wiimote. Its surprisingly convincing. Imagine playing the harp in Skyward Sword and being able to feel the "plucks" of each string.
Gotta admit that sounds pretty sweet! A nice evolution of the rumble feature.
 
That's not what ViviTouch is, though. It's more like an improved rumble pack that doesn't use motors. The screen itself isn't effected. It's already sold as an iPhone add-on, and is compatible with a few games. It's still cool and I'd rather it be used than not, but it's not the same as the screen texture tech we've seen at trade shows in years past.
It can still be used more subtly for touch sensation on the screen. If an area of the screen is sandy, when you move your finger over that area, technically the whole screen would subtly vibrate to mimic the texture of sand, but since you're only ever touching the screen with one finger (at least with the Wii U subscreen :p) you only feel that vibration at the location of the sand when it happens anyway. At least, in theory. I've never actually gone hands on with anything like this so I have no idea how convincing texture usages like that would feel compared to the electrostatic method, but it should at least be adequate for making buttons feel like they're being pressed/clicked.
Maybe...

I guess this all assumes it's internal. If it's just an external peripheral then I don't know how they'd isolate the screen vibration from the rest of the unit so you don't feel it with your hand holding the device...
 
I think third-party support will be deceptively strong because of PS360 ports, but it'll drop as we near the PS720. In fact, I think third-party support will end-up rivalling that found on the Wii. I think developers are bound and determined to follow the pied pipers right into a raging river of red ink.

I think developers will offer plenty of effusive praise for Nintendo, their history, their innovation, their games design, etc.. but the language that they use will set-off bullshit alarms in anyone who is familiar with recent console history. Lots of non-committal, "I'll have to see if I can come-up with any ideas for that controller"-type comments.

I think there's a chance that we might see a more combative, "oh really?"-type Reggie on-stage this time around.. and his confidence will be backed-up well by what is shown on stage and on the show floor. Fans will love it, but the gaming press - never ones to pass-up a chance to shit on Nintendo - will label it "arrogant."

In fact, I think we'll continue to see the divide between the gaming press and the Nintendo scene. Western outlets will continue to rationalize writing-off a huge chunk of the gaming population as potential readership just because you can't see fine details beyond PS3.5 capability (because if you can't see the individual hairs coming out of each ogre's ass-mole, the game is utter garbage and the experience is ruined, right? Right.).

I think we'll see screens of the next 3D Mario game, but not much video. My hunch is that they'll be aiming at making SMG3 a Holiday 2013 title, so it'll be the centerpiece of Nintedo's E3 2013 presence.

I think we'll see about the same amount of console Zelda content - but it would not surprise me to see hints or even an announcement that Nintendo will at some point release HD editions of their 3D games.

I think Metroid will be absent from the show. Same for Smash Bros, save for maybe a hint or a logo.

I think that the Nintendo Network will be okay, but it'll fail in the eyes of "everything-must-be-online-or-it's-a-2-outta-10-review" junkies.

I think we'll see confirmation that WiiWare and VC purchases carry-over onto your new Wii U.

I think we'll know a name change before E3.

I foresee no pack-in game, but a few Catch Mii-type games included on the hardware.

I think Nintendo will spend more time on interface and features than many realize. A video chat may be demonstrated, along with new news & weather & shopping channels.

I think Nintendo will attempt to put strong emphasis on tablet-only functions. Tablet gaming, web surfing, and other activities will be in the spotlight, with Nintendo hoping that mainstream media reports reach the masses in order to attract some of those blue ocean folks. Otherwise, I don't see Nintendo spending too much time on Wii Fit or Wii Music-like titles.

I think Nintendo (or some other entities) will at some point during E3 confirm that the Wii U is indeed more powerful than the PS360. But lots of the usual suspects will refuse to believe this, somehow expecting huge jumps in visuals for the rest of time. (These folks may also find themselves disappointed when they see the lack of jump in visuals from the other two next-gen machines. Hmm.)

I think we'll see a repeat of the E3 Wii Stampedes of 2006.

I think we won't see price or release date.

...

And holy crap! I typed a wall in no time, so I'm going to stop here. Predictions are subject to change, but that's the general direction in which I see things moving.
 
I think we can all agree on most of the stuff.

Oh and i forgot one thing in my prediction: "Nintendo is doomed"... We cant predict Nintendos future without the inevitable "doom" :D

Cant wait for the BS Pachter is going to spill after E3... I could use something to laugh ;)
 
This was a really well thought out and very possible prediction, I hope they show off more games then you mentioned though, and I think they will...

I think we should really look forward to quite a few announcements. Also just because I read a stupid thread yesterday. Call of Duty will be there at the same time as it will be for 360 and PS3 (with the same version across all 3 platforms for once)

Also I hope we get some 3rd party devs to talk at Nintendo's conference, last year I was surprised to see a couple actually in person, but I hope they come with announcements for games, maybe even an exclusive from crytek or valve (come on gabe, maybe they will let you play some mariokart with miyamoto!)


So...

Did you guys talk about the EDRAM IBM is providing for the WiiU yet?
We've talked about it in the past, it would be very cool if they are saying that it will have 3x the memory for the same amount of transistors which is sort of how it reads... if that is the case, we might very well be low balling that l2 cache with 1.5mb and could be as much as 9mb... but it's all wait and see at the moment, still could become very exciting.
 
So, my E3 expectations
not really, rather what i would have wanted!

_About the peniswatt, we can clearly see 3 types of games.

-Lazy ports (Darksiders 2) which still run better (1080p, good AA, 60fps) with exact same geometry/texture/shaders

-Halfway ports (Resident Evil 6) which have the above features + some shader benefits. In that case, let's imagine a way more advanced light engine that would make the game more impressive.

Then you have the usual suspects who show off the tech of the machine, which can look pretty next gen (despite not being at all in term of geometry) with amazing light and shaders all over the place, so much it doesn't really seem to be a PS360 game at all.

Lots of Nintendo games to clearly show there will be content.
_Surprise entry : Smash Bros (they just lied to us like they did with Metroid Prime when NGC was unveiled) Looks amazing. Use of dynamic animations + awesome models (not better than any fighter on PS360) that looks Pixar like with good AA and amazing light make the game look totally next gen (+ the fact that we didn't see that many cartoony games with high production value, except maybe Blue dragon). The game has many guests from new companies (Mog and Cloud from SE, this kind of thing)

_Metroid is the retro game. It takes a clear realistic turn, more dark, based on Samus alone exploring epic locations. Looks Crysis 2 PC level + amazing art direction and original alien nature everywhere. The game is really advanced in the way it's highly dynamic. Environment is destructible, Samus (and monsters) move always naturally regarding the ground shape and have smooth transitions with even variables that give the feeling she never repeat a simple animation (Think Frostbyte was the first step). Monsters are fucking scary and the dynamic animation + great motion blur gives them a movie cgi feel. Also Samus is as badass as she ever was, and the game as a massive "mainstream dudebro" appeal.

_Pikmin won't be for launch (just to avoid saturation) but some weeks later. It's wonderful and uses perfectly the console shaders for lovely photorealistic environment and dreamy light settings (down, morning dew, light reflections...). It's really poetic and impressive. Of course, this game and Metroid makes awesome use of the Tablet.

_Wave Race is the most technically impressive game. Use of Tesselation + modern shaders makes the already amazing water physics out of this world. It's more realistic than Blue Storm and a lot more appealing in its settings, with bigger than life scenes, storm, crazy lightning illuminations, it's really there to make people's jaw drop in stores.

_Then you have a video package of games officially in development, with no launch date.

-There is a 3D Donkey Kong that plays more like a free roaming Mario 64 where you freely goes from tress to trees (maybe even a technical playable demo).

-A really dynamic and full of life Mario Kart that looks a lot like the initial DKC racing from Square on NGC, with every characters acting in a really lively manner and really dense environment (and races!).

-F-Zero footage. You can imagine....

The "Just before you leave" thing is Mario. As i would like to be, it's basically a Mario Galaxy (gameplay wise) with a more cartoony (ala Wind Waker) look, really soft and colorful, with lots of stage interactions and never seen before animations. It's really innocent and naive as where the old ones (or the 3ds one in some regards) and Mario is smaller and dumb like to find back an universal appeal.

And that's just from Nintendo. Add some awesome things from selected thirds.

Tht's what E3 won't be, for sure :p
 
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1vpkr/WGEMAGGameDevelopers/resources/40.htm

Like I said, it is cool, and I'd rather have it in the controller than not. It seems much better than just using a spinning motor. It's also a lot more energy efficient.

There's a video on their page about it as well. (strange how it was developed by Bayer of all companies)
Very interesting read, thanks!

IF i got it correctly, the Vivitouch has an additional layer, wich lets the screen vibrate where you touch it in stead of making the whole device rumble. And it can be used way more flexible than just an ordinary rumble. And Uses 70% less power than a conventional rumble. Propably the main reason why Nintendo may be very interested in this technology.

EDIT: It uses the audio to create the effect, so the "rumble" feels like what you see/hear. This is pretty amazing. And way more advanced than i thought.
 
I think with Nintendo trying to create a new online network they should create a "Four Swords" type game for the Wii U, except obviously a little better and prettier, the sub-screen should work wonders with a game like that as well. I think a spin-off online multiplayer Zelda could be a system seller for some old Nintenod fans that left because of online gaming, let me use for example my brother, he only has a 360 and will definetly get a Durango as well, but he was a huge Nintendo guy and Zelda fan up until this gen. I think if Nintendo had a Zelda game that allowed him to go online and solve Zelda puzzles, fight Zelda bosses and the like with me his brother, I am positive he would pick up a Wii U just for that, it combines a fan's love of Nintendo with their love of online gaming.

I haven't really thought about how exactly the game would play, and obviously there needs to be some solo mode, but I do believe this is a game that needs to happen. We saw spin-off Zelda games like Link's crossbow, so I think it's possible, in actuality it would probaly be a great launch game it might be to early for a "real" Mario or Zelda but a game with the Zelda logo that showed that Nintendo is serious about online gaming could be huge to install faith in the non-believers of the Nintendo Network.
 
Very interesting read, thanks!

IF i got it correctly, the Vivitouch has an additional layer, wich lets the screen vibrate where you touch it in stead of making the whole device rumble...
No, unfortunately it's not transparent. It's not something that could go on top of the screen like that. You can see a couple of them displayed near the end of this video, the black stripes are the vibrating membranes:

http://www.viddler.com/v/4eb1e4ff
 
This was a really well thought out and very possible prediction, I hope they show off more games then you mentioned though, and I think they will...

I think we should really look forward to quite a few announcements. Also just because I read a stupid thread yesterday. Call of Duty will be there at the same time as it will be for 360 and PS3 (with the same version across all 3 platforms for once)

Also I hope we get some 3rd party devs to talk at Nintendo's conference, last year I was surprised to see a couple actually in person, but I hope they come with announcements for games, maybe even an exclusive from crytek or valve (come on gabe, maybe they will let you play some mariokart with miyamoto!)
Ahh thank you! And you've reminded me: there will be at least one big-name "celebrity developer" who will appear on-stage to talk about the U. And he'll back up his words with something concrete.

Who will it be? What will he reveal? Who knows..
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Ahh thank you! And you've reminded me: there will be at least one big-name "celebrity developer" who will appear on-stage to talk about the U. And he'll back up his words with something concrete.

Who will it be? What will he reveal? Who knows..
It will be Carmack with his own version of Kerbal Space Program, making some great use of the upad for sketching rocket parts on.
 
I see vivitouch as some type of side product offered by a 3rd party, I am not convinced that this is part of the Upad. That company might be trying to push it hard but I will wait and see
I don't know. The ViviTouch technology isn't really limited to (or even focused on) touchscreens. Artificial Muscle/ Bayer MaterialScience also developed more powerful drivers that could be used to replace regular rumble motors. I also don't think Artificial Muscle designs end user products (Bayer certainly doesn't), they're an OEM. So exhibiting at E3, with the Wii U as a reference product - assuming they use it -, seems to make perfect sense to me. I believe that Israeli company behind Kinect did the same a few years ago.
 
ViviTouch are listed under peripherals for every bit of hardware..Wii U ,Vita, 360,PS3, PC, Mac etc..so it doesn't seem it's just something for Wii U.

We had all the haptic speculation back before the 3DS launched. Back then Artifical Muscle claimed their tech was going to be used in games console/handheld to be released at the end of 2010 (which would have fit the original projected 3DS launch date) but it never happened. I suppose there's a chance it may have been held back for Wii U (you'd expect at least one hardware surprise from Nintendo at E3).
 
My E3 predictions:


Most likely scenario:

- WiiU 1st and 2nd party games look GOREGOUS
- Most of the 3rd party games look exactly or a little worse like their xbox 360/ps3 counterpart
Basically what you are saying is that Nintendo will embarrass third parties.
They kind of did with SMG, but of course, it could be overlooked because it wasn't HD.

Third parties had a good 6-7 years to themselves poking fun at the sleeping the bear in the cave. But things are about to change, Spring is coming, the bear is awakening and its HUNGRY!

I can understand why many third parties might feel threatened imagining Nintendo making their games in HD. Nintendo has the recognizable franchises that sold well despite being in SD. They have a knack for game design and art direction. Nintendo is so confident that its giving away middleware to third-parties. As if to say, you guys need all the help you can get. Come E3 its...




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY

For all those balding space marines
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
You're right, I am alone which is why all of you only own Wii's/3DS and nothing else.
nice. Time to show some balls after all the shit you were throwing around!
A 2 months ban bet seems reasonable. What do you say? Or you'll keep ignoring it now like you've done with so many posts? Pretty absurde thing to say, but the damage is done now, I don't know how you're gonna come out of it this time.
 
Basically what you are saying is that Nintendo will embarrass third parties.
They kind of did with SMG, but of course, it could be overlooked because it wasn't HD.
Yes i do but it has more to do with lazy devs not putting the additional power to use.


I wouldnt be surprised if Nintendo games would graphically capable of looking extremely close to Xbox 720/PS4 games, despite the hardware being inferior. Just because to the fact that Nintendos amazing art style and general software wizardry that they sometimes pull off (SMG 1 and 2 being prime examples)

Retro and ther 3rd party games propably will look amazing aswell but i really dont see the 3rd party developers using the hardware to an extent that Nintendo will be doing!
 
The free use is only for PCs. I think they began it shortly after being bought by Intel, which makes sense, as Intel would want a lot of PC games out there making good use of the CPU.
I see. That is understandable indeed.


So, in ur avatar, the guy on the bottom; I see his left hand, but where is his right?
Either his right arm is parallel with his left arm, or his right arm is feeling the breast of the woman, so you cant see it hehe ;)
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Concerning the SDK (Software Development Kit, a set of tools to develop for a system)

It seems the Cafe/Wii U SDK (Cafe could be the code name of the SDK, not sure about that, it could still be the system in itself) is stagnating at the revision 2.02 since a few months now, it's still this number at the end of march/beginning of april. It was the v2 at late december/january.

Is it a sign of a stabilization of the development tools for the Wii U ? It could also be linked to the release of dev kits, and with the newly V5 ones, there will be another SDK revision soon.

It would be cool to have some developer hindsight about that, first-hand knowledge, the PS3 SDK may be near 3.X number, the Revolution/Wii one is 2.X i think, what can you say about these Wii U numbers ? Maybe we can't speculate a lot about these small increments, it means nothing and there's quite a bunch of changes in them ?

Edit: Ok, after reading wsippel following message and cross-checking the informations from my sources and a middleware new changelog on the web, it seems the SDK 2.02 was still in use at the end of march (and even perhaps the first days of april), the studios where my sources are working still developed through it at the time, and a SDK 2.03 appeared at the beginning of april. So my post is still relevant (and all the studios and middleware companies may not receiving SDK at the same time, though it must be rather quick), and the questions remain, what can we say about these numbers, the fact that Wii U SDK is evolving at seemingly small increments and at a rather slow pace (2.02 in use for a few months whereas the system is still in development).
 
Actually my prediction for E3 is a bit different. I think Nintendo is going to give 3rd parties a lot of time to present their respective games. Think of MS pre Kinect conference. I'd say they're going to highlight about 4 big games, let the developers either play through a short demo or come on stage to talk about what they did with the controls, and show a short video with examples each.

Nintendo will definetly spend the first 20 minutes to showcase the device and introduce their actual games to highlight certain features:

Retro Game - Graphics and Tech
Wii Fit/Sports/Play - General Gameplay Integration of the touchscreen and combinations of play (asymetric MP, new Zapper etc)
Mario Paint/Art App - Comunity Features, User Created content
Mario Kart/Smash Bros - Online Features, Friendlist details, comunities expanded, DLC policies
They will also highlight the savestate features (if it's happening) and the OS functions and integrations.

Then we get a block of 3rd party games (4 or 5) highlighted by either live demos or Trailers with a following developer statement and explanation. I'm thinking:
COD with Elite integration,
Assassins Creed 3 with on screen Eagle Vision and Animus menu,
Epic Mickey 2 with tablet being used as a canvas,
Metro 2034 with the clipboard and clock on the touchscreen,
Killer Freaks with the spherical gameplay detailed and lastly
EA showing a subscription based EA Sports App that lets you play a selection of current EA Sports games, and they're organised through the touch screen.

Then they'll move to the 3DS, highlighting the lineup for 2012 and hints at 2013. Maybe show some new OS features (I expect unified functions with the WiiU OS) To be honest, I expect the real stars of the show to be on the 3DS. It's getting in gear now, and second generation games should blow the stuff we've seen so far out of the water. Remember, Resident Evil Revelations was just the tip of the iceberg, and with apps like Colors 3D I can see a bright future for the eshop as well.

And lastly they'll talk about their vision for both systems, giving Journos hands on time directly in the conference hall (like with Skyward Sword)
I am not even convinced they'll do a "before you go" stunt this time. That sort of thing is usually better when they've allready have the console out, unless they have some Blockbuster hit lined up we know nothing about yet.
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
Concerning the SDK (Software Development Kit, a set of tools to develop for a system)

It seems the Cafe/Wii U SDK (Cafe could be the code name of the SDK, not sure about that, it could still be the system in itself) is stagnating at the revision 2.02 since a few months now, it's still this number at the end of march/beginning of april. It was the v2 at late december/january.

Is it a sign of a stabilization of the development tools for the Wii U ? It could also be linked to the release of dev kits, and with the newly V5 ones, there will be another SDK revision soon.

It would be cool to have some developer hindsight about that, first-hand knowledge, the PS3 SDK may be near 3.X number, the Revolution/Wii one is 2.X i think, what can you say about these Wii U numbers ? Maybe we can't speculate a lot about these small increments, it means nothing and there's quite a bunch of changes in them ?
So are devs using v2 or v5 SDKs?
 
Concerning the SDK (Software Development Kit, a set of tools to develop for a system)

It seems the Cafe/Wii U SDK (Cafe could be the code name of the SDK, not sure about that, it could still be the system in itself) is stagnating at the revision 2.02 since a few months now, it's still this number at the end of march/beginning of april. It was the v2 at late december/january.

Is it a sign of a stabilization of the development tools for the Wii U ? It could also be linked to the release of dev kits, and with the newly V5 ones, there will be another SDK revision soon.

It would be cool to have some developer hindsight about that, first-hand knowledge, the PS3 SDK may be near 3.X number, the Revolution/Wii one is 2.X i think, what can you say about these Wii U numbers ? Maybe we can't speculate a lot about these small increments, it means nothing and there's quite a bunch of changes in them ?
To me, it says Nintendo is out to reach something. They seem to be constantly stabilizing and upgrading. Question is, what are they trying to reach? What is Nintendo's end goal for the U?
 
Nintendo should have Skrillex on stage at E3 to deliver a rad brostep accompaniment to the conference.
There can be a drop everytime Iwata drops a bomb.
Pikmin 3. WUB. Super Mario Bros 4? WUB WUB. Eternal Darkness 2? EEEEEEEEEEEE. Metroid Dread. WUB WUB WUB. Beyond Good and Evil 2. wub wub WUB WUUUUB
I lolled at this so much.
 
Basically what you are saying is that Nintendo will embarrass third parties.
They kind of did with SMG, but of course, it could be overlooked because it wasn't HD.

(..)

For all those balding space marines
Honestly, while I think Nintendo has franchises that sell like hot cakes...it always seem to be the same franchises.

Nintendo didn't exactly put forward any new big seller this gen. Wii sports and the likes aren't what I'm talking about.
 
Honestly, while I think Nintendo has franchises that sell like hot cakes...it always seem to be the same franchises.

Nintendo didn't exactly put forward any new big seller this gen. Wii sports and the likes aren't what I'm talking about.
There wasn't any new "mascot" this gen, you're right about that. I think Miyamoto said that he wanted to come up with a new one though and it is know he is working on a new game. Hopefully we do get a new franchise started up this gen.
 
There wasn't any new "mascot" this gen, you're right about that. I think Miyamoto said that he wanted to come up with a new one though and it is know he is working on a new game. Hopefully we do get a new franchise started up this gen.
I don't think there has to be a new mascot. They have plenty, I just feel like they should start reaching out to other types of "adventures".

Not talking about Nintendo making a COD game or anything, but something that appeals to a different demo than their franchises in general.

They tried it with Metroid, but I also don't feel like that was the right way to do it.