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Wiimote/Motion Plus vs. PlayStation Move Comparison Thread
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I see what you're saying now. I agree - Move would be better for that kind of thing.gofreak said:
I'm trying to think of what sort of application would require that though (i.e. games where it isn't desirable for the game to revert to some "default" position during which input isn't required). All I can think of are novel forms of puzzle games. It isn't an issue for *most* applications because most current applications incorporate some form of "dead time" (i.e. your sword is sheathed or you're waiting for a return serve), which allows for recalibration.
Pointing (e.g. in an FPS) isn't an issue because the Wiimote uses an IR camera anyway.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
All console harmony here! Fact is a fact is a fact. I'm personally having more fun on PS3 since Wii sensor bar always play mindgames with me and it pisses me off when it loses track of where I am and sometimes pointing at the bar doesn't do jackshit and you have to run around a bit to get focus (atleast for me, ofcourse). I love Wii for what it is and I thank the Wii for starting the motion controller generation of gaming but Sony really stepped the game up.goomba said:
balladofwindfishes
Member
I thought I made that pretty clear. I merely basing it from videos and what the consumer would take away from it. It's incredibly difficult to see any real difference between the products. Many might not even notice it after playing.Ashes1396 said:
On a related note, I just saw a Move commercial while writing this post, and my parents went "WOAH what's that great Wii game, we have to get that!?"
And I had to explain to them that it's a playstation. There reaction was "the hell!? Can't Nintendo sue?" and their interest in the product was completely lost.
Sony isn't doing a good job at showing the difference between the device, right on down to the fact it looks like a Wii remote + nunchuk and launched with a nerely identical line up to the Wii's launch.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Both are really accurate, I tried it with Sports Champions over the weekend. I didn't really think the Move was that dramatically more accurate than the Wii Motion +. If the hardware is really more accurate, SC doesn't seem to show it. I play table tennis and disc golf, for reference.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Wiimote's affected by light, as a matter of fact. Much was made of the issue at launch.Ashes1396 said:
KZObsessed
Member
balladofwindfishes said:
1:1 doesn't mean simulator though. Sports Champions is actually very forgiving, it'll still count as you hitting the ball even if you miss, as long as you don't miss by miles. I'm sure these assists will decrease as the difficulty levels increase but you don't necessarily have to be good at Table Tennis in real life to have fun with it.
Lonely1 said:
Wait. You adjust your shot after feeling that 1/100ms contact.
Dude. you adjust your shot by the velocity and the angle of the ball prior to making a contact, just like Tennis. Unless you have super super human reflexes and adjust your shot during the contact is made.
Are you sure you have played TT?
tassletine said:
You do realize that's the whole point of motion gaming, right? :/ They never intended people to waggle their wrists around. And Sony makes sure you actually MOVE while playing MOTION games.
If you want a good wrist workout, why not just beat off instead? Works for me...
I have no doubt that the motion tech in the Move controller is superior to WM+. However, I've found with the Wii that the games that heavily rely on motion control get stale fairly quickly. You might argue that those games are great in a party type setting, and yes, you're probably correct, but when we have people over there's only one game people want to play, and that is Rock Band. To that end I don't really give much of a shit about Sports Champions, but I still find all the hype and excitement around the title amusing and slightly ironic coming from the posters entrenched in Sony's camp.
What I really DO like about these controllers is the pointer functionality. It's too bad the Wii has so few great titles that take advantage of it (Sin and Punishment 2 is in the backlog though!). I don't think the Move offers much more than the WiiMote here technology wise, but software wise I think the Move has a lot of potential. I really like what I've seen of Echochrome 2 in particular. I was going to attempt to wait for a better software line-up before my Move purchase, but I am too much of a consumer whore and succumbed to ordering one today.
What I really DO like about these controllers is the pointer functionality. It's too bad the Wii has so few great titles that take advantage of it (Sin and Punishment 2 is in the backlog though!). I don't think the Move offers much more than the WiiMote here technology wise, but software wise I think the Move has a lot of potential. I really like what I've seen of Echochrome 2 in particular. I was going to attempt to wait for a better software line-up before my Move purchase, but I am too much of a consumer whore and succumbed to ordering one today.
shagg_187 said:
Sony maybe copycats, but innovation isn't everything. Sometimes copying something and making it better is good enough. Just look at how Sony made dual analogs popular.
Nintendo releases SNES controller with shoulder buttons
Sony release PS controller with another set of shoulder buttons
Nintendo releases N64 controller with a shitty analog that hurts your thumb
Sony then releases a controller with 2 analogs (now it is highly popular), the analogs are also buttons too
Nintendo releases a rumble pack that seems to rattle, and it is a seperate add on
Sony releases rumble built in to the controller, and the rumble seems so much better
Nintendo releases motion controls (but it's basically waggle controls)
Sony releases superior motion controls that fully track the position of the controller
Yes it is sad that Sony are copycats, but who gives a fuck, I enjoyed dual analogs, now I am enjoying superior motion controls.
Motion gaming can also enhance control of traditional games. Like pointer aiming or deeper combat mechanics in sword fights. The reason why im not interested in kinect is because I don't see how it can improve traditional gaming in a meaningful way, unlike Move can, being a (mostly) superset of WM+.Piggus said:
Thank God this thread was made.
If the Move's accelerometer is at least equal to or better than the one inside the Wiimote- and it very well should be considering it's 4 years newer- the Wiimote is going to have trouble doing anything involving XYZ position tracking; especially if it involves very fast movements, like competitive sports do.
I recently spent some time playing around on the augmented reality styrofoam finger intro screen on Start the Party. I covered up the orb to see what happens when Move just relies on its accelerometers for XYZ. I did a variety of motions at various speeds, like baseball swings, sword slashes, punches, etc.
Even after just one swing, the accelerometer's estimates are inaccurate by an average of about 4-12 inches; and I wasn't even swinging near as hard as I would be in Sports Champions' gladiator duel game, as I had to maintain a gentle, two-handed grip on the Move to keep the orb covered.
And in response to the comments asking if positional awareness is really all that important of a loss for the Wii: Well if/when traditional developers take advantage of Move's strengths, we'll know that answer.
If the Move's accelerometer is at least equal to or better than the one inside the Wiimote- and it very well should be considering it's 4 years newer- the Wiimote is going to have trouble doing anything involving XYZ position tracking; especially if it involves very fast movements, like competitive sports do.
I recently spent some time playing around on the augmented reality styrofoam finger intro screen on Start the Party. I covered up the orb to see what happens when Move just relies on its accelerometers for XYZ. I did a variety of motions at various speeds, like baseball swings, sword slashes, punches, etc.
Even after just one swing, the accelerometer's estimates are inaccurate by an average of about 4-12 inches; and I wasn't even swinging near as hard as I would be in Sports Champions' gladiator duel game, as I had to maintain a gentle, two-handed grip on the Move to keep the orb covered.
And in response to the comments asking if positional awareness is really all that important of a loss for the Wii: Well if/when traditional developers take advantage of Move's strengths, we'll know that answer.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
Well no that's not going to be interesting.Amir0x said:
viciouskillersquirrel said:
He's saying:
1) there are far less 60fps games this gen ... many aren't even 30fps
2) since they are HD, most people are using plasma or LCD ... which has input lag that doesn't exist on CRT
3) motion controls have more lag than traditional controllers
Lonely1 said:
NO
Move does have force feedback which you acknowledge. But what you made up was using active feedback of real game to change your shot. Which is 100% B.S
Most professional rackets are padded, feedback is not as important at all , unless you are breaking a new raquet and learning the giving and taking property of the racquet.
Follow the ball?
Seriously man, I respect your knowledge about motion control. But you are really making stuff up. Its ok to say I was wrong.
I have played TT all my life. I havent met anyone in my life who adjust his shot after contact. Its humanly impossible.
Jive Turkey said:
Well if you want me to respond seriously I will.
my problem with all the motion technology up until this point (pointer aside, because that's rad) is that it wasn't ready for prime time. MOVE is one step closer to being ready for prime time for me. I got a MOVE because I want to try Sorcery, but the software is obviously not doing it for me. The games suck, basically, like they did for the early Wii launch.
It's the deficiencies of the technology that always bothered me with wiimote/motion+, and MOVE is closer to eliminating those deficiencies. We're not quite all the way there yet but hey, baby steps.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
That's rather interesting, but a bit of a large spread for an average - shouldn't you just say 8 inches?cakefoo said:
And I suppose it would be too hard to setup a test for simulating light interference cutting in part way through your swing since you have to block the orb at the right time consistently.
Are baby steps enough though? Some have argued that something like Heavy Rain should be viewed more positively despite it's writing issues because it's baby steps towards more story-focused gaming experiences. Several out there have stated simply accepting baby steps at times in such a case isn't good (i.e. Daniel Floyd's piece on writing in games).Amir0x said:
Kabuki Waq
Member
Move has HD graphics and surround sound. It is also accurate and feels better in the hands.
This thread is not needed as the move wins no contest.
Edit: also no need to aim at the sensor bar when playing shooters.
This thread is not needed as the move wins no contest.
Edit: also no need to aim at the sensor bar when playing shooters.
XiaNaphryz said:
Well the way people are buying this stuff up, it probably sends these companies the wrong idea about how flawed these devices can be, so I think baby steps is all we can hope for
is it enough? Never for me. For others, perhaps.
I think as far as this type of remote motion controlled gaming goes, the MOVE is pretty near ideal for the 1:1 gaming. It's still got a bit too much lag for my taste though, and as long as we ever have to keep calibrating for use, that's a big issue (FOR ME, PEOPLE, I DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT YOU THINK IT'S NOT).
We'll get there eventually. It's definitely beyond the embarrassingly missed potential of the early wiimote, and a significant step beyond Motion+. MOVE is finally to the point where I can stop thinking about the controller as much since "immersion" is a selling point of these games and that's impossible to do when you're constantly worried about the issues the controllers have. Which was one of the specific points I highlighted in my commentary about why the wiimote is so bad
El Pescado
Member
Me and my wife have more fun with WSR than SC. We actually played WSR right after we first played SC because we wanted to compare the two. I'm not saying WSR was more accurate in this case or anything, but we had a lot more fun.RyanDG said:
Edit: Also, on a completely separate note, the Nav-Controller is 100% more clunky than the Nunchuck. That thing is not ergonomically correct in any way whatsoever.
Lonely1 said:
ofcourse its not perfect. But its the best I have played. And i own both WSR and SC.
When you do pick it up (SC). Keep in mind the TT gets really fun during the gold cup. Prior to that its still noticeably assist. And if you like TT as I think you do. Its going to be a blast.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Amir0x said:
please dont say "Personality"...thats more lame then when coaches use "heart" in sports when describing players.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Gerstmann used something similar in his review of SC. Terms like "cold and calculating," "lifeless," "sterile," and whatnot. So yeah, expect terms like personality and charm and all that sort of talk in regards to SC vs WSR.Kabuki Waq said:
EDIT: Here's the review - http://www.giantbomb.com/sports-champions/61-30349/reviews/
Kabuki Waq
Member
Fusebox said:
I dunno man Table Tennis in Bronze is REALLY easy.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
He's been trolling motion controls since the beginning, though.XiaNaphryz said:
DangerousDave said:
Holy Shit. Well... um... guess I should go order a move then
Seriously, the fact that the move controler does not have to be attached to a single "pivot point" like in WSR makes it so there's a lot more freedom with how you implement the motion controls overall. Accuracy be damned, that is the defining difference.
Kabuki Waq
Member
XiaNaphryz said:
You would have to be a pretty Shallow gamer to put a little charm advantage above better(IMO) gameplay.
rollingstart
Banned
I can only speak about my person experiences with both controllers. So far, the Move seems much better, but it is also a pain in the ass compared to the Wii. Even with motion plus that has you calibrating in WSR, it never got to be as complicated as the move. Then there are the different games where navigating is different, or even just navigating the XMB isn't ideal.
Just looking at the hardware, the move is more comfortable (partly because it is rounded and not designed to be an nes controller on the side). But the light does get annoying, and even though it is required, doesn't stop it from being annoying. The battery is short, takes a long time to charge, and can't be replaced. I think that is a huge problem considering you can't plug it in and still play reasonably.
A lot of my impressions go up and down depending on the software and the same is true for the Wii. Personally I don't think Wii Sports Resort Ping Pong is the best test for the motion plus hardware. The ping pong in sports champions gets drastically different as you increase the difficulty level; WSR could just be stuck on the 'easiest' setting by design. Unless there is some obscure wiiware game that no one has heard about, there isn't a lot of motion plus software out there to do further tests with. I will say that the move pointing is much better than I thought. At first I thought it would be inferior to the wii because it didn't use the IR pointer, but just playing around with The Shoot, it feels just as good and in some ways better. Granted, I haven't tried any FPS games on the move because I don't own MAG and that is where the Wii runs into problems.
I just hope good motion controls keep evolving. I think even Wii fans would agree that the hardware at release fell way short of expectations. Motion Plus helped a lot and I still don't think the full potential has been used; I hope Zelda SS gets it more support. Move seems like another step up above Motion Plus and, again, the problem is down to the software. Even Kinect seemed totally awful until TGS when they announced interesting games for it that got my interest.
The other thing is, if you liked the what the Wii offered, you'll probably like Move. The opposite is true too (even if it is a downgrade). The point is that if you're one of the people on this forum who actually see the potential in motion controls, and not just as another way to support a corporation, you should be happy that the tech is improving and getting more support.
Just looking at the hardware, the move is more comfortable (partly because it is rounded and not designed to be an nes controller on the side). But the light does get annoying, and even though it is required, doesn't stop it from being annoying. The battery is short, takes a long time to charge, and can't be replaced. I think that is a huge problem considering you can't plug it in and still play reasonably.
A lot of my impressions go up and down depending on the software and the same is true for the Wii. Personally I don't think Wii Sports Resort Ping Pong is the best test for the motion plus hardware. The ping pong in sports champions gets drastically different as you increase the difficulty level; WSR could just be stuck on the 'easiest' setting by design. Unless there is some obscure wiiware game that no one has heard about, there isn't a lot of motion plus software out there to do further tests with. I will say that the move pointing is much better than I thought. At first I thought it would be inferior to the wii because it didn't use the IR pointer, but just playing around with The Shoot, it feels just as good and in some ways better. Granted, I haven't tried any FPS games on the move because I don't own MAG and that is where the Wii runs into problems.
I just hope good motion controls keep evolving. I think even Wii fans would agree that the hardware at release fell way short of expectations. Motion Plus helped a lot and I still don't think the full potential has been used; I hope Zelda SS gets it more support. Move seems like another step up above Motion Plus and, again, the problem is down to the software. Even Kinect seemed totally awful until TGS when they announced interesting games for it that got my interest.
The other thing is, if you liked the what the Wii offered, you'll probably like Move. The opposite is true too (even if it is a downgrade). The point is that if you're one of the people on this forum who actually see the potential in motion controls, and not just as another way to support a corporation, you should be happy that the tech is improving and getting more support.
But it's sort of like comparing Sports Champions to Wii Sports. While the former is definitely more accurate the atmosphere of the game is much more friendly and fun in Wii Sports. And not to be mean or anything but aren't casual games supposed to focus on less in-depth/complicated mechanics?Kabuki Waq said:
Kabuki Waq
Member
PounchEnvy said:
explain this extra fun factor please. Move is NOT complicated at all. Specially on Bronze. I would say if it wasnt for multiplayer the games themselves get old really fast.( like mose minigame collections) have you even played both games?
Redbeard said:
not only that. The fact that MOVE/PS3 can do stereoscopic 3D means that as a delivery platform, it enables gameplay that nothing on wii can touch. I'm actually seriously considering a 3D tv now... especially following the RR7 patch news. I can only imagine what tumble is like in stereoscopic 3D.
I think it's important to note wide range of drift variations from one movement to the next. Or sometimes after I do a motion and stop, it'll sort of sway back and forth once. Other times it stops on a dime. I don't really know the how and the why, just that it does it.XiaNaphryz said:
Not sure I follow. In fact, I know I don't
What I do is hold the controller at the start position of the swing, cover the orb with my hand, do a motion, see how far it's off, then uncover the orb. So there's no timing necessary.Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
No...Not really. You just have an uncanny ability to rile up fanboys in an entertaining frenzy.Amir0x said:
I agree fully. Every Wii game I enjoy doesn't really utilize the motion tech and nothing I see for Move looks terribly enthralling.Amir0x said: