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[JasoNsider]

Every day on this message board, I am not exaggerating, I read something that makes me lose more faith in the industry or game "journalists". This is the quotation that does it for today.

I'm a multiplatform owner, I like my Wii and I'd like more "core" games, as dumb as I think that designation sounds. I've bought pretty much every "test" so far and have been happy with most of them, but I don't know if I'll be doing that this time. Maybe I'll just use my Wii for niche Japanese games and Nintendo franchises (as well as the odd honest third-party effort). I'm so sick of the tests, the moving goalposts, the half-assed efforts and the condescending tone. They can keep their "core" games at this point.

Excellent post right there.

 

[Shiggy]

we dont really know what capacity eurocom are involved in, same as with cavia on umbrella chronicles. i doubt they're doing the art and stuff on extraction though because it looks as if they're recycling stuff from the proper game

the reason i think it's lazy or shat out is because it's a lightgun game which typically arent that expensive to make. eurocom are "helping out". they announced it pretty quickly after the real dead space and seem to be releasing it fairly quickly too. i also think it's lazy in the sense that they're just copying capcom circa 2007. i know that copying's kind of par for the course when it comes to ea on wii but i still think it's crap

Eurocom is responsible for the level and gameplay design as well as programming. EA is supervising the project (art and general supervision). Visceral Games is rather busy with Dante's Inferno.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Given a choice, I would pick Alice in Wonderland over DSE for my rail shooter fix.

Look at it, it's a freaking WiiWare game, and it looks better than Extraction!

 

[plagiarize]

Even though I heard it sucked i'm picking up the Grudge too, seems like you're quite a horror fan yourself. Speaking of horror titles on the Wii, have you heard of Cursed Mountain? I'm planning to pick this one up real soon.

yeah i've heard of Cursed Mountain. didn't like the sound of it so much.

the grudge isn't really a game, it's more like an expensive more developed version of that 'scary maze game'. i can't wait to make my friends play in the dark and scare the shit out of them.

and yeah, i'm a big horror fan. a well made horror game is scarier than any horror movie, so when that happens, i'm always over the moon about it.

 

[tintinrudd]

no test.

theyre being cheap, its that simple.

Im now getting sick of classic up dates too because Konami COULD get off their ass and make a new Contra or Gradius but they are not going to.

yeah, i'm a big horror fan. a well made horror game is scarier than any horror movie, so when that happens, i'm always over the moon about it.

So what are the scariest games? SH series, Fatal frame series.

 

[Vinci]

I'll buy the game if and when people on GAF that I more or less trust state that it's worth paying for. You can take your 'tests' and shove them right up your ass though. That goes for all of you companies. Either take the platform seriously or GTFO and quit wasting our time.

 

[Dascu]

Not really sure how you can accurately gauge the size of a market by giving it a side-story with different gameplay mechanics. Didn't really work with other developers and I doubt it'll work with DS:E.

Given a choice, I would pick Alice in Wonderland over DSE for my rail shooter fix.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu24/Luke_K/ZombiePanic.jpg[IMG]

Look at it, it's a freaking WiiWare game, [B]and it looks better than Extraction[/B]![/QUOTE]
Hmmm, no, not really.

 

[Grand_Gamer]

The "test" will fail. The franchise is not even well know among PS3 and Xbox 360 players, and they hope that it will sell well on Wii?

If EA spend money in the game's marketing, it can sell decently.

 

[plagiarize]

no test.

theyre being cheap, its that simple.

Im now getting sick of classic up dates too because Konami COULD get off their ass and make a new Contra or Gradius but they are not going to.



So what are the scariest games? SH series, Fatal frame series.

AvP1 on PC

it's the only game i've played that REMAINS scary after having beaten it a whole bunch of times. it's incredibly dynamic and the motion scanner is one of scariest tools in any game. plus, if you panic you are pretty much done, even if only combating one or two aliens.

pitch black at times too. one of the darkest games ever.

SH scares me more than FF though cause ghosts don't scare me as much as something physical.

 

[Fady K]

yeah i've heard of Cursed Mountain. didn't like the sound of it so much.

the grudge isn't really a game, it's more like an expensive more developed version of that 'scary maze game'. i can't wait to make my friends play in the dark and scare the shit out of them.

and yeah, i'm a big horror fan. a well made horror game is scarier than any horror movie, so when that happens, i'm always over the moon about it.

I'll let you know if you should give Cursed Mountain a shot once i beat it Yes, ive heard about the Grudge being a simulator (the 2 player mode sounds kind of silly yet fun) though I look forward to the single player mode it will have. Experimental game, but interesting.

 

[Fady K]

no test.

theyre being cheap, its that simple.

Im now getting sick of classic up dates too because Konami COULD get off their ass and make a new Contra or Gradius but they are not going to.



So what are the scariest games? SH series, Fatal frame series.

New Contra...that would be awesome. New Gradius? I NEED a new Gradius, especially if I can have an HD one with Sakimoto returning to compose it (from Gradius V).

Scariest games? Yeah the Silent Hill games and Fatal Frame games are quite scary. Siren: Blood Curse is as well, the Clock Tower games, the older Resident Evils - especially the Gamecube remake (out now for the Wii as Resident Evil Archives: Resident Evil - MUST pick this up if you never played it.)

 

[Cow Mengde]

Hmmm, no, not really.

here's a screen to remind you.

That's water he's standing in.

 

[plagiarize]

here's a screen to remind you.

That's water he's standing in.

so what does water look like in Alice in Wonderland?

 

[Sipowicz]

so what does water look like in Alice in Wonderland?

not very good i'd imagine seeing as it's a cheap downloadable game

and for those wondering if a proper dead space could be done on the wii as opposed to a cheap, outsourced lightgun spinoff here's a video of a dead space prototype on xbox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGsiVQbZSN0

notice that it's a full fledged survival horror game. it's on a console with half the install base of the wii and it looks way better than the wii game

cant fault eurocom though. there's only so much you can expect from a shovelware developer in such little time

 

[thefro]

Will rent it for sure but I'm not a big enough fan of the rail shooter genre to pay $50 for a game.

 

[tintinrudd]

cant fault eurocom though. there's only so much you can expect from a shovelware developer in such little time

Whats so fucking tragic about this statement is that they have had 3 years to do something. Whats worse is that, knowing how full of pride these 3rd parties are, they would have shown something, ANYTHING, resembling effort if they were actually doing something about it.

But they are not.

 

[pvpness]

Will buy at $20 if it's good.

And hey, EA? Fuck you. I think everybody is pretty much sick of it at this point. Everybody understands that pretty much no western devs are gonna try to put anything even remotely traditional on the Wii at this point so why do they keep putting their finger in the wound? Assholes. Such a waste.

It is kinda funny. Though I don't think that's what they're going for...

 

[boiled goose]

Well, here's the thing.

These tests can only be failed. Or negated. They can never, ever be passed.

The game could do great and the result to EA would be "Oh, Wii owners love on-rails shooters, good thing we know that now and don't have to put anymore effort in."

If the game does poorly, the result to EA would be "Man, Wii owners sure hate mature games, good thing we know that now and don't have to put anymore effort in."

Test games are, in essence, totally rigged.

thank you capcom...

 

[Cow Mengde]

not very good i'd imagine seeing as it's a cheap downloadable game

I don't know, I've never seen images of water in Alice in Wonderland. As Sipowicz said, this is a cheapo WiiWare game. Visually, it holds up way better than DSE.

There is, however, a WiiWare game that's also a rail-shooter with dynamic water and environment map bump mapping, but I forgot the name of it. It's a game where you fight through various stages of history evolving from a monkey fighting dinosaurs to fighting in the future or something. Does anyone remember the name of it? I know that game looked pretty decent compared to DSE.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think graphics are one of the places you really can't knock Extraction.

Lots of people who have had hands on time with the game have suggested it looks well beyond a Wii game.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Actually I gotta take back my post about the game not being made due to camera issues, because late last night I was thinking about a whole different sort of set of games, and as well some of the games on the Wii that had received criticism because of their controls. This morning I suddenly recalled that a little game called Resident Evil 4 existed, and of course that only made use of one analog stick and it had a reasonable camera (though some folks did hate the controls). A Dead Space Wii could easily make use of that control scheme, and it would probably be pretty good.

With that out of the way I think looking to explanations I think one has to notice that the dev cycle of this game is seemingly one year. Basically EA is quickly whipping this game together to keep their Dead Space cards on the table for another xmas cycle. Even if EA did consider making a full featured Wii Dead Space game that couldn't be done in such a short amount of time. The fact that they're having an outside studio do it shows even more that they don't have the resources. Basically EA is doing a cash in, which is pretty lame for Wii fans.

 

[plagiarize]

I think graphics are one of the places you really can't knock Extraction.

Lots of people who have had hands on time with the game have suggested it looks well beyond a Wii game.

people still make the mistake of judging the graphics of a Wii game from screenshots rather than from gameplay footage.

 

[happyfunball]

people still make the mistake of judging the graphics of a Wii game from screenshots rather than from gameplay footage.

While that's true for most Wii games, it doesn't hold true for this. The color palette, lack of high resolution textures, and horrid lighting makes this game just look unpalatable (even for Wii standards).

Looking at that xbox dead space footage makes this look even less respectable.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

While that's true for most Wii games, it doesn't hold true for this. The color palette, lack of high resolution textures, and horrid lighting makes this game just look unpalatable (even for Wii standards).

Sorry, but the game looks pretty good.


And I'm not sure why people pay attention to Cow Mengde, since he thinks that lightgun shooters somehow "taint" rail shooters like Sin & Punishment.

 

[Jocchan]

Actually I gotta take back my post about the game not being made due to camera issues, because late last night I was thinking about a whole different sort of set of games, and as well some of the games on the Wii that had received criticism because of their controls. This morning I suddenly recalled that a little game called Resident Evil 4 existed, and of course that only made use of one analog stick and it had a reasonable camera (though some folks did hate the controls). A Dead Space Wii could easily make use of that control scheme, and it would probably be pretty good.

Well, the main difference is the fact you can't move while aiming in RE4 (in aiming mode, you can pan the camera around with the analog stick while moving the cursor with the IR pointer). In Dead Space, on the other hand, moving while shooting is nearly a necessity.
This is not necessarily an insurmountable issue, the customizable bounding box used in FPSes could be adapted to Dead Space's third person view quite easily imho. Too bad no one bothered to experiment with that.

With that out of the way I think looking to explanations I think one has to notice that the dev cycle of this game is seemingly one year. Basically EA is quickly whipping this game together to keep their Dead Space cards on the table for another xmas cycle. Even if EA did consider making a full featured Wii Dead Space game that couldn't be done in such a short amount of time. The fact that they're having an outside studio do it shows even more that they don't have the resources. Basically EA is doing a cash in, which is pretty lame for Wii fans.

Looks like a pretty good cash-in backed by a quite decent budget, anyway, and the multi-console owners that liked Dead Space should probably buy it. This is probably what makes the taste Extraction left in the mouths of many so sour: unlike outsourced cash-in disasters like TOSE's Dead Rising: Empty Mall Edition, Extraction looks more like a wasted opportunity for a great action game to experiment with a control scheme way underutilized in a genre where it could probably excel.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Looks like a pretty good cash in backed by a quite decent budget, anyway, and the multi-console owners that liked Dead Space should probably buy it. This is probably what makes the taste Extraction left in the mouths of many so sour: unlike outsourced cash-in disasters like TOSE's Dead Rising: Empty Mall Edition, Extraction looks more like a wasted opportunity for a great action game to experiment with a control scheme way underutilized in a genre where it could probably excel.

Yeah I agree on all points. Definitely a wasted opportunity, but at the same time definitely one of the best looking games of the quick cash in variety that I've seen. It think it'll end up being the best Wii lightgun shooter game out there.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Looks like a pretty good cash-in backed by a quite decent budget, anyway, and the multi-console owners that liked Dead Space should probably buy it. This is probably what makes the taste Extraction left in the mouths of many so sour: unlike outsourced cash-in disasters like TOSE's Dead Rising: Empty Mall Edition, Extraction looks more like a wasted opportunity for a great action game to experiment with a control scheme way underutilized in a genre where it could probably excel.

Have you played DR Wii? It's ugly as shit, but apart from that, the mall is not empty at all, and it's pretty good fun. In some ways, it plays better than the original DR, although it's much easier because of the focus on shooting. It's no RE4, but I can't really understand the hate, and I personally would have preferred such a solution to a rail shooter.

 

[RagnarokX]

They're really playing different types of games on those two machines, and historically up to know we assume those people will have played the more mature content on the more high-tech machine.

So now PS2 was more high-tech than XBox and GCN?

 

[Jocchan]

Yeah I agree on all points. Definitely a wasted opportunity, but at the same time definitely one of the best looking games of the quick cash in variety that I've seen. It think it'll end up being the best Wii lightgun shooter game out there.

I agree, and being a fan of the original game (I'm currently replaying it to get the few trophies I'm still missing) I'm pretty hyped for a prequel.
Okay, the plot wasn't anything special and the game dragged itself for way too long, but it still was a terrifying experience to me, and being unable to control your character on your own in Extraction will probably lead to quite a few interesting scenes and contribute to the overall scare factor (pacing and camera will be almost entirely controlled by the designers). Still, if I said I'm happy they went for the lightgun route, I'd be lying: of course a third person action game would have made me happier, but it would have required a much longer development cycle and a proportionally higher budget, two details EA probably cares about quite a bit.

 

[The Faceless Master]

This is why most of my Wii games are made by Nintendo.

Nintendo makes games, not tests.

I've never really liked lightgun games.

 

[Jocchan]

Have you played DR Wii? It's ugly as shit, but apart from that, the mall is not empty at all, and it's pretty good fun. In some ways, it plays better than the original DR, although it's much easier because of the focus on shooting. It's no RE4, but I can't really understand the hate, and I personally would have preferred such a solution to a rail shooter.

No, I admit I was turned off by the zombies popping in from nowhere. It was more of a deal-breaker than the horrible visual compartment by itself.
Anyway, I'm sure Extraction couldn't have been similar to DR: most of its issues are due to the team having to shoehorn it, in a short amount of time, to an engine that was developed for a completely different purpose (with quite a few low level hacks, or so I hear). Of course, being the engine completely unsuited, it looks so messy and ended up being a horrible Dead Rising-themed RE4 reskin.
A third person Dead Space Wii wouldn't have incurred in such issues, they had no pre-made engine to shoehorn it in. It would have certainly looked worse than Extraction but, thanks to the (mostly) small environments with new rooms being loaded every time you try to open a door, it couldn't have been much worse.

 

[Frencherman]

This is why most of my Wii games are made by Nintendo.

Nintendo makes games, not tests.

What a great post!

 

[Danthrax]

HEAPFULS OF STEAMING SHIT

Wow am I glad much of your "conversation" took place while I wasn't on GAF because I would have had a meltdown.

Welcome to my ignore list.

P.S. Lightgun games ARE NOT SHIT

 

[Arde5643]

You can always make a low budget HD game, PC games have been "HD" since the 90s. Stuff like 3D Dot Heroes and Tales of Vesperia are pretty cheap to develop, especially noting Vesperia uses 2D backdrops, and the levels have PS2 level geometry.

While Red Steel cost more than Gears to make. In the end there is little to no reason to ever make a high budgeted Wii game when you can go straight to the PS360.

Oh wow, is this straight from Gamefaqs? Or are you someone's alt?

Cause there's no way you've been lurking in GAF with this kind of thing you're spouting.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Nintendo makes games, not tests.

They sometimes make both

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

What a great post!

 

[codecow]

it's being "co-developed" as far i know. they can use whatever flowery language they want but it's still been outsourced and it's still a hastily put together arcade game wannabe

Plenty of the main team at Visceral including artists worked on the project with Eurocom.

both games are shitty arcade game spinoffs as far as i can tell. i'm more more likely to buy the resident evil one (when it's cheap though)

That's too bad. You should look at the reviews when they come out!

 

[codecow]

With that out of the way I think looking to explanations I think one has to notice that the dev cycle of this game is seemingly one year.

How do you figure that? It was in development a long time before Dead Space shipped.

 

[Sadist]

Have you played DR Wii? It's ugly as shit, but apart from that, the mall is not empty at all, and it's pretty good fun. In some ways, it plays better than the original DR, although it's much easier because of the focus on shooting. It's no RE4, but I can't really understand the hate, and I personally would have preferred such a solution to a rail shooter.

+ 1 for Dead Rising CTYD

Got it cheap btw. For the price of entry it was stupid fun and makes you realize that even in a weak conversion, the RE 4 Wii Edtion engine is not being used enough in Wii games. The horrible pop-up zombies was something I laughed off.

And thinking about Dead Space using this engine... sigh.

How do you figure that? It was in development a long time before Dead Space shipped.

A long time?

 

[Jocchan]

That's too bad. You should look at the reviews when they come out!

I'm expecting decent scores for Extraction, maybe a tad lower than the original Dead Space because of it being a Wii lightgun game. Early impressions and hands on point to a really solid effort, though, and they're more reliable than review scores to me.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

When developers/publishers use words like "test" & "risk" then that means they don't have much faith in it, which means we don't have much faith in it. This coupled with phrases like "the Wii market" & "core gamers" only MAGNIFIES the problem.

This is a psuedo-"high profile" game for Wii, but it's not worthy of ANY pedestal "even on the Wii". The first true, honest-to-God, first-rate, SERIOUS effort on the Wii from a 3RD Party was and is Monster Hunter Tri and the graphics, advertising, popularity, critical acclai and sales all reflect that. Gotta give props to SEGA too for not throwing around the "test" & "risk" words with their "core gamers" Wii games too much.

It's a (false!) self-fulfilling perception that won't (ever?) go away. Just like things like "only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo consoles" or other such (TIRED) canned phrases.

 

[happyfunball]

Sorry, but the game looks pretty good.

Wow, aside from some nice window lighting on the first boss, the rest of the game looks like a muddled hell. And when they actually show human characters, its just straight-up ugly.

 

[happyfunball]

Plenty of the main team at Visceral including artists worked on the project with Eurocom.

If only the gameplay design team wasn't on vacation......

 

[EmCeeGramr]

If only the gameplay design team wasn't on vacation......

According to people who have actually played the game, it's really fun and not like other light-gun shooters at all.

But hey, what do they know. I'm gonna be a grump and hope it fails for no real reason.

 

[apujanata]

This is why most of my Wii games are made by Nintendo.

Nintendo makes games, not tests.

I've never really liked lightgun games.

Take that!

One of the reason I didn't re-sell my games is because many of Nintendo games are timeless, with lots of replay value (except probably Zelda, but I have so much fun playing Zelda that I don't mind them). My sons are having fun playing Zelda games, both on GC and DS.

If you want to develop games on Wii, you will find hundreds of excuses to do it.
If you DO NOT want to develop games on Wii, you will find thousands of excuses NOT to do it.

I would certainly like seeing more varied games on Wii, since I only have Wii (no PS3 or X360 yet), but I will not lament the fact that games like DR2 are not released on Wii. If I really, really like that game, I would just buy PS3 or X360 to play it, or I can also play it at my friend's home (since he have PS3 and X360, but no Wii yet).

 

[Ormberg]

So I've been pondering about this "test" scenario a bit, can anyone agree/disagree on this?

EA: This is a test game and there are two scenarios:

I) You don't buy the game -> mature games doesn't sell on Wii so we'll drop support on this genre altogether.

II) You bought it?! Great! Now...

a) Expect more on-rails games from beloved franshises - response from us: *moan*

b) A "real" game will follow, but it'll take what, two to three years to develop it since we don't have any good engine for the Wii.

Either fallout of a and b seems so god damn awful that I just give up. Am I missing anything here?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

FAIL FAIL FAIL. I can't even properly articulate the level of fail. Instead I will give examples of WIN. Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 on Wii are examples of WIN. Try and emulate what those games do if you want to be associated with WIN.

 

[Sadist]

So I've been pondering about this "test" scenario a bit, can anyone agree/disagree on this?

EA: This is a test game and there are two scenarios:

I) You don't buy the game -> mature games doesn't sell on Wii so we'll drop support on this genre altogether.

II) You bought it?! Great! Now...

a) Expect more on-rails games from beloved franshises - response from us: *moan*

b) A "real" game will follow, but it'll take what, two to three years to develop it since we don't have any good engine for the Wii.

Either fallout of a and b seems so god damn awful that I just give up. Am I missing anything here?

Everybody agrees on this one because we discussed it many times

Everybody knows this is true. Makes me think about the whole Capcom PR thing. "Well guys, RE 4 Wii sold well and even our "test" (the test thing is actually funny, I think it was Svenson from Capcom USA who introduced it and meant nothing by it. Now, it's one of the greater Wii memes on GAF) Umbrella Chronicles sold. Nice! The Wii crowd got Dead Rising CTYD and of course that new RE game... which turned out to be tDSC. Lot of rage during the announcement. "I'M NOT HAPPY CAPCOM!!! RRRRRRRRAAAAAGGGGEE"

Still, the Wii has T vs. C, MH3 and that new Sengoku Basara.

 

[Ormberg]

Everybody agrees on this one because we discussed it many times

Everybody knows this is true. Makes me think about the whole Capcom PR thing. "Well guys, RE 4 Wii sold well and even our "test" (the test thing is actually funny, I think it was Svenson from Capcom USA who introduced it and meant nothing by it. Now, it's one of the greater Wii memes on GAF) Umbrella Chronicles sold. Nice! The Wii crowd got Dead Rising CTYD and of course that new RE game... which turned out to be tDSC. Lot of rage during the announcement. "I'M NOT HAPPY CAPCOM!!! RRRRRRRRAAAAAGGGGEE"

Still, the Wii has T vs. C, MH3 and that new Sengoku Basara.

That is true, yes, but I never saw a discussion about points a and b I laid out

 

[batbeg]

Christ I hate it when the Wii lightgun games are brought up, brings out the worst in the haters.

DSE looks amazing. Will buy it, although I realize I should go the honorable gamer route and refuse to buy it because some dumbass executive called it a test, thus proving my holy message to EA.