Oh no, they are going to marry our beautiful Nordic babes, leaving us none to choose from.
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Will Germany Be Able to Successfully Integrate Those 800,000 Migrants?
- Thread starter Antiochus
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Oh no, they are going to marry our beautiful Nordic babes, leaving us none to choose from.
TanookiTom
Member
I think often it is the case that the men flee and plan to get their family over later, as the journey is very dangerous (of which we are reminded daily in the news). The other sad fact is that many women and children don't survive the journey, or are simply unable to attempt it in the first place :'-(
Bots are better than you
Banned
Nah, Bülent can be funny ... or at least was funny, back in 1995 - 2005. Basically before RTL got him locked up.DerZuhälter;178070945 said:
For M'Barek, dunno, i don't like german movies and neither do i watch them ... but hey, he is all over the media, the people cheer for him and he seems rather likeable. And after wikipedia him, i just learned that he is indeed ... Austrian!
At the very least, they are very good examples of successful integration, although i have to admit that it was most likely easier for them, as both have german/austrian mothers and were born here (and Austria).
They have the best ability to make the journey. An Afghani woman and her two children won't make it far.
The demographic shift is seriously scary.
I don't understand why won't Germany or Europe make clear rules as to how you can stay here, and then adhere to them.
Regular Immigrant?
Either you are already qualified in your work field, got employed and speak the language or you begin from zero, learn the language, go to college here or do some Ausbildung, find a job and stay.
Visa Granted
Refugee?
Stay here safe til war is over. Provide a visa stating specifically why you are here
in the mean time, anyone enjoying the benefits of that help should be required to learn the language (goverment would have to provide this) and should have job permits to do jobs in construction, delivery or anything that doesn't require language skills. Let's get real here, handsome, blue-eyed germans don't do certain kind of jobs cause they are too cool for them, for the most part. Construction workers, for example, are mostly polish or east european, makes no difference if they are Syrian or anything else. Germany can use immigrants damn well.
if by the end of the war, (lets say 5 years), you got your refugee going to the renew their visa and you notice:
.- Zero german learned
.- no job or usefulness where said person can be assigned
.- Clear poverty, as shown by his bank account.
then deny the visa and send them back.
is there anything wrong with my reasoning?
Regular Immigrant?
Either you are already qualified in your work field, got employed and speak the language or you begin from zero, learn the language, go to college here or do some Ausbildung, find a job and stay.
Visa Granted
Refugee?
Stay here safe til war is over. Provide a visa stating specifically why you are here
in the mean time, anyone enjoying the benefits of that help should be required to learn the language (goverment would have to provide this) and should have job permits to do jobs in construction, delivery or anything that doesn't require language skills. Let's get real here, handsome, blue-eyed germans don't do certain kind of jobs cause they are too cool for them, for the most part. Construction workers, for example, are mostly polish or east european, makes no difference if they are Syrian or anything else. Germany can use immigrants damn well.
if by the end of the war, (lets say 5 years), you got your refugee going to the renew their visa and you notice:
.- Zero german learned
.- no job or usefulness where said person can be assigned
.- Clear poverty, as shown by his bank account.
then deny the visa and send them back.
is there anything wrong with my reasoning?
Kenshin001
Member
I don't think that is the point. More likely they will not find anyone which will lead to frustration and anger, which in turn will lead to radicalisation.
DerZuhälter
Member
Please read what I write and don't just skim over it. A good friend of mine used to attend and tutor at a japanese school in Düsseldorf. There are a whole bunch of kids not even learning german while being here. It's not considered a problem for them. Nobody cares. Yeah some of them go back to Japan, but others do stay in Germany.
The problem isn't the language, it's not cultural assimilation or integration. Whoever is here just needs to abide by the law and our constitution. If they do then everything should be fine, right?
Well, wrong. An ever growing islamophobia in europe is letting media, politicans and right-wing nuts go completely insane. Black sheeps among thousands of peaceful living immigrants, asylum seekers and 2nd or 3rd generation germans with foreign roots are being showcased as widespread problems.
Honor killings, forced marriages, tyrannized females and hatemongerings imams in mosques who preach weekly on fridays to thousands to live only by the laws of the sharia and not the german constitution. This is the picture that is being evoked right now. And these messages find their recipients. Look at Heidenau and some of the quotes those oblivious people are giving. This isn't a local problem you hear some of the same quotes in the west of germany, too.
Young (single) mothers, the disabled and the elderly (i.e. the more vulnerable groups in society) will have a substantially more difficult time than working-age men in that situation, and will likely again be dislocated/sent back after your hypothetical 5 years because of unequal opportunities granted.
Oh, yeah, that makes sense! The foreign males didn´t bring any foreign women with them, so they try to score with the girls already living in Germany. But since there are only so many women available (and who wants to hook up with a refugee?), these on-edge young angry males won´t be able to get their rocks off, so they start going on a hateful rampage instead, suicide bombing our shopping malls.
Look, I´m not denying that making room for so many people with a troubled background is challenging. But some of these arguments are completely irrational, this is "they´re trying to take our women!" level of nonsense. Not every young male is a potential Elliot Rodger.
Why there are so many men? Men shouldn't have rights! Send them back to fight and die! /s
actually, if you take time and read some interviews, you can see that there is a recurring theme, a lot of teens running from being enrolled to fight in a war that isn't theirs (for obvious reasons
?
Are you implying that having more men than women is fine? Have you heard of china? Hello.
Imbalanced sex distributions is a big issue for a society.
Antiochus
Member
So we are to be confident that the German state authorities will now rigorously check each and every single of those migrants arriving by train or foot this year, and if they don't check out as a refugee, be promptly deported off Germany? And if we are to be confident, why are they not checking the statuses and accepting/deporting migrants the first place near the Austro-Hungarian borders?
This is not a potential problem which should be hand-waved nor dismissed as xenophobia.
I grew up in an area which had mass immigration, mostly men with limited English. This led to isolated communities and rape gangs which went unchecked for decades until it became a scandal, in turn leading to the rise of the far-right wing and even more xenophobia.
The demographics, distribution and integration opportunities need to be openly addressed now, because if people don't have the ability to fulfil basic human needs, the resulting problems can't be easily fixed.
but who is supposed to look after them in the first place?
for example: you are an elderly middle eastern man in a wheel chair, you mean no harm but are basically unable and you are using the health services for which germans pay taxes.
Now multiply this case by the amount of women, children and disabled and everyone with a honest-to-god reason to not be able to contribute.
How can any system cope with that?
(I am not taking any position here, by the way, I just want to learn how integration on this level can be possible)
Why shouldn't we?
Hello? Yes I´ve heard of china. The one-child policy has been in place since the 1980s there, people are killing their newborn girls because having a little prince is so much more imporant.
These are 800.000 people (potentially) coming to a country of 80 million. I don´t think we´ll run out of women to score with in the near future. We´re also not going to systematically kill female babies anytime soon, so I woulnd´t worry about that.
Of course these problems need to be adressed. One thing that´s for sure is that we definitely shouldn´t clump the refugees all together in one place where it´s more likely that they isolate themselves in the way you described.
I was talking specifically about the point that "there aren´t enough women for all these guys so they will be really mad and become muslim extremists".
TanookiTom
Member
There will a number of illegals, sure. But why is this not reported in the media? Yes, because illegals would constantly be on the run in Germany, would get zero government benefits: No monthly allowance, no health care, nothing. Why would they even try to do that, especially in the case for Syrian refugees who - as I have stated earlier - will be granted ayslum in 90% of the cases.
And yes, the police is actually waiting at the train stations to lead them to places where they'll be registered. Bavaria has also increased its border controls on the border to Austria. But the "problem" is: Germany, Austria and Hungary are all part of the EU. You cannot just close the borders again.
And finally: How do you think "checking their status" works? It takes weeks and months for authorities to check their status. This is the whole bitter irony: You have to enter the EU country in which you want to be granted asylum. The process takes time. If people flee from their bombed homes they might not be able to take all the necessary papers. And if somebody is trying to cross the border from say Austria to Germany and the person would not be eligible for asylum: Where to send the person? Back to Austria? And from there back to where?
iceatcs
Junior Member
Yeah pretty much what happened to British people who left for ISIS.
Most are extreme unlucky with love especially toward white people. Their self esteem got problem and worst, that made so easy turn to radicalisation because they want to blame on something.
The point was that getting 0.5 m more males in a 80 million people society is a huge deal, since even a 1% difference in sex ratios balance have huge consequences, but it seems you just had your interpretation and went with it. Have fun with your strawmen.
Yeah, like every German woman will want to marry refugees/migrants. Oh, and there is no problem at all that men will be mostly muslim, and women non-muslim, this will work out just fine...
They're not going to be evenly distributed across Germany. They'll congregate in certain areas (due to income requirements and the natural desire to live near similar people) and skew the gender ratio locally.
And even if you put aside the problems of a gender ratio disparity, most of these men grew up in areas where women are treated ... well, not very modern and western. If they have enough women around them that don't mind being treated that way due to growing up in the same culture, that's "fine". But that doesn't exactly apply to most German women, does it?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
In Sweden we grant permanent asylum to everyone who is eligible. I think the idea is that it helps with integration since the asylum seekers then know they're definitely gonna get to stay and not be sent back in five years. Doesn't seem to be working all that well. But maybe it would be even worse otherwise - we did have a person go and commit coldblooded knife murder of two random and completely innocent Swedes at IKEA in the middle of the day a month ago because his asylum application was rejected.
German women are giants D: those Syrian men would be pretty intimidated!
Poodlestrike
Banned
Thread title reads like a gameshow idea, tbpf.
iceatcs
Junior Member
No, they're left their country for that. At least one of them, I hope I can find the video from few days ago someone interview on the Hungary's motorway. One guy said German women are big and nice, Serbian are ugly drawf etc..
TanookiTom
Member
The thread title is horrible and misleading for several reasons.
Merkel tried to phone a friend, but Cameron didn't pick up.
Video seems very biased against brown immigrants as an entity, but god damn at that Lebanese "magistrate." That's just straight up organized crime. But at the same time, I find that the agenda behind the video is akin to trying to paint all Italians as mafiosos because the only mafiosos we can think of are Italian.
I don't think we here in Germany can, it is really hard task and will provide work and discussion for the next years.
But all in all I think we have to work together here and we can make steps forward.
What is a different kind of problem is how many Isis soldiers see the easy chance to now get into main europe.
But all in all I think we have to work together here and we can make steps forward.
What is a different kind of problem is how many Isis soldiers see the easy chance to now get into main europe.
Future PhaZe
Member
This sounds harsh, but allowing Isis easy access into mainland Europe is...this won't end well at all. Not at all. The moral obligation is to your own people first and foremost.
Maedre
Banned
They are? I think they are not. My GF is only 1.70 m. and most females around are between 1.6 and 1.70 m high. Rather short.
I think we will make this happen. But we have to be strict. If someone is not willing to integrate into our society, this person has to go. I welcome all refugees who need really help. But monetary refugees should have no chance.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Nope they can't. Europe can't.
This will be a disaster in the making.
This will be a disaster in the making.
maniac-kun
Member
Well the older generation is full of guilt because of ww2. So they dont think that way.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Also greatly describes the ugly motherfuckers turning Nazi skihead, so nothing new in Germany then.
OuterLimits
Gold Member
So are the women and children largely being left in Syria?
I realize young men are the most physically able to make the journey, but the numbers are a bit surprising if it is indeed so lopsided.
Recently 2 isis terrorist pretending to be refugees got captured but on the other hand isis claims there are already around 4000 in Europe.
http://www.ibtimes.com/refugee-cris...state-extremists-exploit-refugee-flow-2085787
If this is true and we have to accept terror attacks as a new kind of routine you can bet the right and even the far right will rise and it would be 100% the fault of naive idiots and the left.
Germany may be attractive, but is it successful in integrating the immigrants? What's the quote for Hartz IV for immigrants and natives? What's the percentage of immigrant children between Gymnasium, Real- and Hauptschule? What's the chance for immigrants to succeed in working life and getting promotion? How big is the split between haves and have-nots? Last time I checked, Germany has been lacking on several issues.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
ZDF a left leaning media outlet?
ZDF is pretty fucking center if you ask me. May be left by american standards but thats because in the US almost everything has a hefty right wing lean.
I think germany can successfully integrate these people, if there is a good plan. As mentioned in the video, historically germany did a bad job when it came to integration which led to parallel societies and that ultimately caused problems, of course.
But Merkel already addressed this issue partially. The main goal would be to avoid larger communities where immigrants are amoung themselfs and therefore aren't forced to learn german*. Spread the refugees evenly across the country so that they are always in the minority and are forced to integrate, whether its in school, or in the job, or during free time.
*Look at the first family in the video, they say they have been in germany for 20 years and the fathers german is bad. Like, I have seen people who learned german for a few months and were better. The months german was probably even worse because she didn't have a job.
But ultimately its about integration, not assimilation.
People can keep and live their culture, as long as it is in line with german law.
If you can't accept that german law will be above all you're traditions and religious laws, germany is not the right place for you. But I'm positive that the vast majority of refugees can accept that.
ZDF is pretty fucking center if you ask me. May be left by american standards but thats because in the US almost everything has a hefty right wing lean.
I think germany can successfully integrate these people, if there is a good plan. As mentioned in the video, historically germany did a bad job when it came to integration which led to parallel societies and that ultimately caused problems, of course.
But Merkel already addressed this issue partially. The main goal would be to avoid larger communities where immigrants are amoung themselfs and therefore aren't forced to learn german*. Spread the refugees evenly across the country so that they are always in the minority and are forced to integrate, whether its in school, or in the job, or during free time.
*Look at the first family in the video, they say they have been in germany for 20 years and the fathers german is bad. Like, I have seen people who learned german for a few months and were better. The months german was probably even worse because she didn't have a job.
But ultimately its about integration, not assimilation.
People can keep and live their culture, as long as it is in line with german law.
If you can't accept that german law will be above all you're traditions and religious laws, germany is not the right place for you. But I'm positive that the vast majority of refugees can accept that.
PdotMichael
Banned
For icecold claiming things you are asking many questions. I would expect that you know the answers of your questions and would share some of your your knowledge with us. especially the reference to Switzerland is still quite random.
http://www.bundesregierung.de/Conte...erbericht_2015.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2
Shows a positive development by the way.
Those are issues of social not ethnic heritage. So it really depends on the refugees social class.
maquiladora
Member
Yes, I think so.
The split between west and east Germany was barely a generation old, and integrating people who look the same and talk the same language as the natives is obviously a whole lot easier.
Damerman
Member
have you guys seen the camerawoman kick down refugees?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhRiwWKRxi0
this is fucking disgusting. not a goog look hungary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhRiwWKRxi0
this is fucking disgusting. not a goog look hungary
Some people saw it yes: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1109141
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Syria and Turkey are actually quite comparable - both highly secular countries, with focus on civil law and low tolerance for political Islam.
anonymous_abc
Member
I think it's not totally unfair to say that Turkey has moved quite a bit away from that ideal in the last decade or so. We have the AKP and Erdoğan to thank for that.
Bots are better than you
Banned
Dunno man ... does Erdogan know that, too?
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I meant Turkey of the time of the big immigration waves to Germany in the 60s and 70s, as the poster I replied to suggested that the muslims that are arriving to Germany now are different from the Turks Germany has already successfully integrated.
If you go by official statistics, nearly half the refugees arriving from Syria are probably not even Muslims.
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