Austriacus
Member
I agree completely, im just saying that we shouldnt eliminate them.
I like both over sexualised and not objectified characters.
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Women Characters Redesigned by Women SFF Artists
- Thread starter FlyinJ
- Start date
I agree completely, im just saying that we shouldnt eliminate them.
I like both over sexualised and not objectified characters.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Imo i think it's because of the shape of her head combined and also the hairstyle is the main factor in why she looks more feminine now compared to before. And CN is much more open to things than they were before. I mean we're talking about the same company who allowed this.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1388625_o.gif
^ This somehow made it past the censors man. And there's the whole Stevannie thing that happened recently.
They're not super super in your face about it but they're getting there. I'd give it about two years before we're there.
But we're also talking about a company who wouldn't even a allow a gay couple to casually kiss each other (in a seconds long scene/throw away gag) on their date in 2014...the closest we got is a pussyfooting air kiss.
So you can't blame me for thinking what I think when they're so wishy-washy on these issues (plus, gender identity and expression is not as well understood by most layman as sexuality is); I'm sure they're getting there though, I agree that we should give it a little while longer.
I like how that's the thing you latched onto instead of reflecting on the the part where I made the point that Benimaru doesn't represent the bulk or even 50 % of male character designs in this industry; you're making a completely idiotic false equivalency...it's simple as that.
It's very possible that you'd still be fine with Benimaru-like designs in a universe where the industry was dominated by young straight women or young gay men (some women in our reality are perfectly fine with the vast majority of female character designs in this industry being needlessly sexualised, it really doesn't bother them), but it's also very possible that it may become very tiring to see a bunch of Benimaru's across the medium in situations where they have no business being.
Imagine for a second a benimaru esque Nathan Drake in a nearly unchanged Uncharted 2 fighting heavily armored combat-ready female soldiers and mercenaries looking like this . Now imagine if that picture reflected the majority of male representation in games, no matter the tone/time period/place; it's not hard to see why that would become tiresome and a bit irritating to some socially aware and educated people.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yea, like I said in my post. They're not in your face about it. Homosexual kissing is not so common that in cartoons that it wouldn't be a very huge deal if it was shown explicitly. It also depends on the show itself. Point is, CN have been very lenient on their animators and storytellers recently. More so than say Disney or Nickelodeon.
You're asking why it's a problem that so many female characters that are sexualized so greatly outnumber ones that aren't? And are you really using the "oh you're just trying to be offended" line here?
lensoftruth
Member
Yes, because there's nothing wrong with sexualised characters and there's so many that aren't.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You don't see the issue with the artists rendition just happening to make the character bustier literally every time? You really think that's unintentional? Also here's the evolution of big boss. He's incredibly consistent.
Consistent but different. Even if slightly. And an artist can render samus however he or she wants, just like the artists what ifs in the op
palpabl_purpura
Member
If I don't have a problem with 1 Benimaru, why would I have a problem with 500 of them?
I actually think that Nathan Drake redesign is a lot more practical. Climbing rugged terrain in blue jeans doesn't seem like it would work. And also in the some of the intense tropical climates he visits, it would make more sense for him to wear less clothes. So I would have no problem with this.
Apollo Cree
Member
People like Arnold Schwarzenegger are outliers but finding a man that is extremely muscular and isn't using a drug cocktail to increase his size isn't that hard. Step into any gym for a day and you'll see plenty. To see an extremely musclebound woman that isn't using some kind of steroid, you'd need to go an Olympic facility.
I'm not sure why there's such a persistence that muscles aren't a masculine trait. If the sexes are looked at comparatively, noteable differences in males would include height, increased musculature, and a more prominent brow. All related to testosterone.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
The differences are statistical though. And they're exacerbated by culture (like telling a girl who might actually want to get big that no no, girls shouldn't do that because it's a masculine thing). The outlier girls and women shouldn't be shamed if they actually want muscles. And assuming a very muscular woman is juiced up adds to the stigma.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
There's not tho, the ones that aren't are few and far between compared to the ones that are. For every Elise or Isabeau
as in well designed non sexualized female characters there's at least 5-10 sexualized ones. This is a terrible issue in the industry, especially when one draws comparisons to the amount of variety in male character design.
Consistently looking the same. To the point that you can literally take the face of each iteration and combine them all into one photo.
3D modelers and artists aren't just told to do whatever, they're told very specifically what to draw. And that sounds like the goal post is moving, the conversation wasn't about "Oh he can do whatever he wants." Which is usually what these retorts resort to, it was about the sexualization of Samus's zero suit. And it's been proven that yes, she's been sexualized very heavily over time in the form of breast and butt implants as well as bigger hips and even a random beauty mark. Which is what people's issue with the zero suit are. Not just the fact that it exists.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
That's storms current costume? Looks amazing...Most of these are bad/if not unremarkable.
- I can see Emma Frost wearing that for a special occasion, but as for costume, design-wise her showing skin is not just about her "in your face" sexual attitude but all so when she turns into her diamond form.
- Almost the same issue for Phoenix, i can this in a casual/diplomatic setting, but does'nt seem it'd look cool n dynamic in combat.
- Chun Li's alt design in this article doesn't highlight her legs/thighs, auto-fail.
- Storm is ok, but her new X-Force costume by far her best yet so..
- Scarlet Witch is just bad, it even failed the goal of the artist(Roma connection). Does'nt make an impact at all.
- People have covered the Zero Suit Samus here a bit already, though the redesign looks great, its not quite "Zero Suit", doesn't look like an under armor.
The toughest thing about character design is not necessarally functionality, but capturing that "It" factor, that "cool", that standout look. Most of these redesigns seemed to be more concern about covering up the characters or eliminating curves, then designing a character that grabs the eye.
John Rabbit
Banned
your argument in this thread is completely weightless and misguided for largely three reasons:
1) as a man, you not having a problem with overtly sexualized depictions of men is squarely because of your status as privileged class: a man. men do not have a centuries long history of being deemed the "inferior" sex. as a gender, men have not had to fight for: their right to vote. for equal pay. to even have a job. to have a vasectomy performed. to go to war. to play professional sports. to hold political office. to go to school. to NOT be raped. to not have their civil liberties violated. men have enjoyed the privilege of their gender for essentially the entire duration of history. you do not get to make the rules about what is and is not offensive to women, because you are not a woman.
2) sexualized depictions of men do not preclude men from being other things than simply being sexual eye-candy. it is not the norm. overtly sexualized depictions of men to the contrary, is often treated as a deviation. a mutation. something to be pointed out for entertainment value, usually at the expense of the man's dignity and/or sexual identity. sexualized depictions of women do not follow this structure. they are the norm. they are expected and to an alarming degree, encouraged by consumer behavior and marketing dollars. woman who are NOT overtly sexualized are the deviation. the mutation. the freak. just meander into the latest Overwatch thread to see an entire group of posters having serious issues with the design of a female character who doesn't have 38Gs hanging off her chest and 30" biceps. in media, by and large, a woman's sole defining characteristic becomes her sexuality. a man's sexuality is but one part of who he "is", and whenever it becomes a focal point, it's often at the expense of a woman's dignity, or used as a comedic device.
3) when it comes to civil liberties or "social justice" fighting fire with fire is not productive nor intelligent. your argument to "let the girls eat cake" too is like saying it's fine for white supremacists to hang blacks from trees so long as black people can do the same to whites. it doesn't work that way. moreover, you're assuming you know what women want from their media and the characters in them. just because you enjoy a nice giant pair of breasts does not mean a woman is dying to see the bulge of a man's genitals or his hairy chest.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
Thanks for sharing the link, OP. I enjoyed the opportunity to consider these familiar characters in a different light. Some are really quite good.
It's amazing how far out of her way the author went to reassure readers that these artists aren't trying to take "anything away" or "take over." I fear that clearly-expressed sentiment will be missed in the current climate, unfortunately.
Anyway, great stuff. Thanks again.
It's amazing how far out of her way the author went to reassure readers that these artists aren't trying to take "anything away" or "take over." I fear that clearly-expressed sentiment will be missed in the current climate, unfortunately.
Anyway, great stuff. Thanks again.
Apollo Cree
Member
They're statistical because of statistical differences between the hormones present in genders. Both sexes have a peak level of musculature that can be naturally reached. Look at natural female bodybuilders and natural male bodybuilders. There is a profound difference.
I see your point, but I think male designs don't really have a ton of diversity either. There's not a great deal of games featuring gay, Asian, middle eastern, fat etc. guys either. There are SOME, but thers easily 5-10 Super masculine protagonists for every one that doesn't fit that stereotype.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
There's not tho, the ones that aren't are few and far between compared to the ones that are. For every Elise or Isabeau
as in well designed non sexualized female characters there's at least 5-10 sexualized ones. This is a terrible issue in the industry, especially when one draws comparisons to the amount of variety in male character design.
Consistently looking the same. To the point that you can literally take the face of each iteration and combine them all into one photo.
3D modelers and artists aren't just told to do whatever, they're told very specifically what to draw. And that sounds like the goal post is moving, the conversation wasn't about "Oh he can do whatever he wants." Which is usually what these retorts resort to, it was about the sexualization of Samus's zero suit. And it's been proven that yes, she's been sexualized very heavily over time in the form of breast and butt implants as well as bigger hips and even a random beauty mark. Which is what people's issue with the zero suit are. Not just the fact that it exists.
On phone so retorts short but I meant Samus looks consistent in the smash entries.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
No, individuals have peak level of musculature that can be naturally reached. Not all men will have a peak higher than all women. Overlap happens.
Aren't you both right? That sexual dimoprhism between the genders is a real thing due to biological differences such as hormone composition but that women also tend to be shamed and discouraged from building musculature due to conventional standards of beauty?
Either way, within the context of video games, it makes as much sense for a 5 foot tall DD chested chick to lift and outrun cars as it does for a human women to be 8 feet tall and built like a brickhouse. I don't think "practically" has much real relevance here in most games
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Ive been catchign up in this thread and do people know what ZSS's "heels" even look like in smash 4? cause they are basically just things with jets on it, they dont even have a sexual connotation to them and they even have purpose.
There are overlaps but the mean and median are definitely higher for men. I do agree that I don't like the fact that musculature is often considered "masculine". It should be a gender neutral trait even with gender differences in mind. It's not something "we" should own.
Apollo Cree
Member
It is individuals but I felt that I didn't need to specify that. The average man is stronger than 99% of women. Sure, overlap happens but it's an anomaly. If you need a source for that, just let me know.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes diversity is also a big issue. But there recently has been an influx of more variety than gruff male ever since the next gen started. Thanks in part to indie games and smaller projects.
Consistent in the fact that she's blonde and wearing zero suit. The breast size increase makes no sense.
palpabl_purpura
Member
1) Flat out wrong. I'm a man, but I'm also black. So all of what you mentioned (except for the rape), also applies to me. So here is a towel, and clean the egg off of your face. People are free to be as sensitive as they want to be, but the buck stops when "everything" is sexist. Give me a break. Strike 1.
2) That's your subjective interpretation. Everything you said is 100% subjective. Some people are just more sensitive than others obviously, but that's their right. Just don't call it sexist. Strike 2.
3) And you are comparing a little skin/T&A to lynching? Congrats, you are culturally insensitive as well as a being a fringe extremist. Strike 3.
Isn't the same thing true for female archetypes in games? There are several notable indies tha feature non stereotypical female characters. I can think of more notable non stereotypical women in indies than males off the top of my head. Gone home, Double fine adventure, remember me, and I think the main character in the Swapper is a woman. For men, there is the little boy in Double fine adventure being the one I can think of.
Fwiw, I like most of the redesigns and don't really care which way the designs go one way or the other.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes but in the industry there are way more sexualized women then there are gruff men. Well designed female characters are still a small minority compared to male characters, in all aspects of the industry.
chromatic9
Member
I often see it posted in defense to how its "most games this most games that", depicting sexualized females, or "how would you like if most men were dressed in this garb", but when I look through most games.
Not a worthless damsel, with no story or character. I guess she showing some skin. Seems fine and at odds with what people have in their minds is happening all over the show
Not a worthless damsel, with no story or character
She could be wearing a jacket but she's not a weak character. Seems fine overall
I guess we could flatten her arse more? Not played the game, maybe there's more costumes. Seems tasteful to me.
She could've been stuck in her panties or worn some figure hugging spandex and been weak or needed saving in Crawford but she wasn't. Molly from walking dead if you didn't know.
I could certainly find sexualized characters through the decades and compile a cheesy video or focus on some fighting games or other games recently that frankly seem few and far between to make it look like devs can't help themselves. I don't say its not happening still and I find things like Samus blue suit poorly placed and was genuinely shocked to see it in such a game.
I'm finding this recent lets sort out the industry, lets grab a bunch of women to redraw and lets stem the tide of sexualized females in nothing but butt floss in most games a bit exaggerated and perhaps more apt for a bygone era and it's possibly right now a niche of games. Also I don't have a problem with Soul Calibur and the like existing as long as it isn't the norm in gaming although it might be a problem in the fighting genre.
Not a worthless damsel, with no story or character. I guess she showing some skin. Seems fine and at odds with what people have in their minds is happening all over the show
Not a worthless damsel, with no story or character
She could be wearing a jacket but she's not a weak character. Seems fine overall
She could've been stuck in her panties or worn some figure hugging spandex and been weak or needed saving in Crawford but she wasn't. Molly from walking dead if you didn't know.
I could certainly find sexualized characters through the decades and compile a cheesy video or focus on some fighting games or other games recently that frankly seem few and far between to make it look like devs can't help themselves. I don't say its not happening still and I find things like Samus blue suit poorly placed and was genuinely shocked to see it in such a game.
I'm finding this recent lets sort out the industry, lets grab a bunch of women to redraw and lets stem the tide of sexualized females in nothing but butt floss in most games a bit exaggerated and perhaps more apt for a bygone era and it's possibly right now a niche of games. Also I don't have a problem with Soul Calibur and the like existing as long as it isn't the norm in gaming although it might be a problem in the fighting genre.
Well...I'm black and female. It's much more obvious for me to see racism compared to sexism. The whole concept of sexism flies over my head simply because my parents and every form of media and every peer and mentor has taught me to live and act a certain way based on my gender. Though, obviously I've been taught that skin color shouldn't determine anything about who I am as a person. So...I'm hyper aware of racial discrimination but gender discrimination is invisible to me because "this is how it's suppose to work, right???" If I were to remove 20+ years of gender socialization, I'd be able to see sexism quite clearly, I think.
Sexism is basically anytime you treat someone differently for something that isn't related to sex. So sexism is something that is basically everywhere. You also have to realize that identity is what comforts the self. It shields us from thoughts of uncertainty, loneliness, meaninglessness and death. So identity is rather important for most people. When our identities are rigid and hollow it backfires on us. Clinging to identity and labels in our sad attempts to reject our full potential self is what causes so much psychological and physical pain in this world. So I think it's best to go straight in and try to break it down a bit, or at least diversify a tad.
It is my opinion that we should wear our identities very loosely and realize how insanely complex and expansive every human being is. To think you can read a person's story just from their appearance is something that is unfortunate but instinctual. We like seeing patterns where there are no patterns because it makes us feel comfortable. We identify things in the world and then apply meanings to them. Then people naturally conform to those meanings in order to avoid feelings of neglect and thwarted belongingness. The whole idea that things have to be this way or that way is just a bad habit to stick to. It will leave people feeling trapped.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Ill try to respond to this as best as I can. Using the pictures you posted, lets scratch the Metroid Prime models of her. Different developers, different renditions. Now, maybe the firat iteration was a WIP model(the image you post where her breasts are separated.). You posted 2 images where her the area between her breasts was tight, it gave them a smaller shape. In the next picture, this is not true- the area between her breasts isnt tigh but its sort of a boob pocket shaped by her bosom. Because of this they look bigger than when the mammaries were separated and tightened. The 4th picture likewise isnt a good example. Shes hunched over, tucking in her stomach in such a way that it accentuates and makes her breasts appear larger than they are. Not only that but it appears that they slightly toghtened up the area inbetween like her earlier design but not by much. I can say that between the 3rd pic and the 3th pic the size is the same. As for the butt pic, the only difference I see is that one butt is more refined and higher resolution than the other one. The picture where she has her neck twisted facing towards camera, other than being more detailed they look the same.
Summary: Smash Samus looks way different from MP games, but within Smash I think the difference in look is mostly due to the jump from Wii hardware to WiiU. Not a drastic difference but enough that the detail in models is more succint. On phone sorry for spelling mistakes
TheRedSnifit
Member
Dice//
Banned
Japanese developers have a bit of a nasty habit of "rewarding" players like that then giving it right up front.
And depends how it's sexualized. The Zero Suit images seem a lot more prevalent, certainly i one way because there's a lot more OF IT. And I don't really regard her workout gear as specifically sexualized.
Really, it's not so simply black and white. A sexy/appealing outfit doesn't automatically beget a sexualized character, it's how it's depicted and presented. The ass-view entrance shots, the boob window framing (where a characters chest seems to make itself into view just as much as her head does), Samus recent Barbie-ification, loss/lack of muscle, and butt/boob implants compared to past iterations is certainly not helping things and is a consciously made decision to make her more "appealing" in other ways.
EDIT: last few pages have been great conversation btw. Gotta love Gaf threads X amount of pages in
MisterGrey3000
Member
Bruh...
I don't think you understand anything about the concepts of white/male/heterosexual/cisgender privilege...
While it's true that black people have experienced many of those detestable things mentioned in John Rabbit's post and still feel the effects of them to this very day, being black does not absolve you of any male privilege you have...just going by the post that you've made so far, it's clear that this is the case.
I mean, inane questions like this...
...are some of the purest examples of privilege that anyone can get.
I mean...
it's like you didn't' even try to understand what my post was about...it's like you didn't even try to understand the concepts that I was presenting (or the concepts that the other poster was presenting) to you.
You're just rationalizing, and objecting to a strawman in place of my actual argument while still trying to prop up a needless false equivalency that holds no intellectual weight; how can you not see the absurdity in your position?
Women still aren't very equal in our society and in a lot of ways they're still dealing with the effects of thousands of years of incredibly ignorant and misogynist institutions...
The fact that a large influential part of an artistic entertainment industry reflects this situation in the 21st century (albiet in a "smaller" way) is a travesty; the amount of men who work in this industry vastly outnumbers the amount of women in it, and many of the guys that are in charge of these experiences lack perspective.
Is it really that hard to understand why some women (and men) object to creating even more ill-conceived needlessly sexualized pandering female characters in a male-dominated artistic mass media entertainment industry that is already filled to the brim with those kinds of characters in a society that constantly and casually perpetuates these (sometimes) harmful stereotypes?
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Besides fighting games which are kind of rare and of course some MMO's, I highly disagree. Gruff, burly, dudebro, tough as nails, masculine men still dominate the industry and heavily outweigh sexy women from my observation. Maybe my definition of sexualized females is different from other's people though. I do not think of sexualization when I see Zero Suit Samus, Lara Croft, Miranda or Ashley from Mass Effect for example. I guess things like Samus high heel looking boots or whatever do not bother me because I love it when games deviate from reality or the norm, especially in fantasy settings. Of course there are places for realism, but I find practicality boring and predictable. Most of the female characters within the last few years that I have seen from major games imo haven't been sexualized at all, but display realistic and positive representations of female characters.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Exactly. Can we both agree that, in and of itself, the Zero Suit is not sexist by design? It is, after all, underwear, and there's a degree of sexualization that can't be avoided there for either gender (outside of making the character straight-up unattractive).
Samus's supermodel proportions sex it up a lot, but it's generally seen in situations where you would expect her to actually be wearing it: Her suit is disabled for whatever reason, or she's in a situation where she doesn't really have time to activate it (granted, these situations are likely created to provide an excuse to show her without the suit, but still). The suit may be sexual, but the context is not. To the contrary, her appearance in the end of Super Metroid (for example) is explicitly sexual, and the outfit itself is borderline fetish wear.
That's from Metroid II. Can we please stop pretending that her exaggerated proportions are something recent? She's been a skinny girl with big boobs since the beginning, and the only reason it's more noticeable now is because the hardware allows more more detail.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yea no, i'm not gonna sit here and let you pretend like they haven't done anything to the model but made a new high definition version of it with no changes in bust, hip and butt size. Here's several of the exact same poses from the recycled moves that she has in the game. There's very clearly a difference that you simply cannot downplay as "higher resolution."
Higher resolution doesn't add more geometry on the actual model. That's not how character models work and they very clearly don't look the same because they increased her bust, hip and breast size while also for some reason making her shorter.
We had three metroid prime games that didn't use it as sexualization but as just an opportunity to see Samus's face, she had a much smaller bust as well, Sakamoto decided in other M to sexualize the hell out of it by drastically increasing her bust size and making the camera focus on her body whenever she's in Zero suit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKgnz3FRUD8 So can we stop pretending that they didn't rectify what once was a stupid reward with a trilogy of awesome games?Exactly. Can we both agree that, in and of itself, the Zero Suit is not sexist by design? It is, after all, underwear, and there's a degree of sexualization that can't be avoided there for either gender (outside of making the character straight-up unattractive).
Samus's supermodel proportions sex it up a lot, but it's generally seen in situations where you would expect her to actually be wearing it: Her suit is disabled for whatever reason, or she's in a situation where she doesn't really have time to activate it (granted, these situations are likely created to provide an excuse to show her without the suit, but still). The suit may be sexual, but the context is not. To the contrary, her appearance in the end of Super Metroid (for example) is explicitly sexual, and the outfit itself is borderline fetish wear.
That's from Metroid II. Can we please stop pretending that her exaggerated proportions are something recent? She's been a skinny girl with big boobs since the beginning, and the only reason it's more noticeable now is because the hardware allows more more detail.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Is it possible that maybe they had different artist on the games? I can see Nintendo or Sakurai overlooking boobs, curves, and butts changing. Sex appeal is certainly a new thing for Nintendo for better or worse.Yea no, i'm not gonna sit here and let you pretend like they haven't done anything to the model but made a new high definition version of it with no changes in bust, hip and butt size. Here's several of the exact same poses from the recycled moves that she has in the game. There's very clearly a difference that you simply cannot downplay as "higher resolution."
Higher resolution doesn't add more geometry on the actual model. That's not how character models work and they very clearly don't look the same.
Dice//
Banned
Um, no (for reasons of the rest of the post).
She started sexualized, but I'm willing to let that slide as an "early days of gaming" thing (not the best reason admittedly, but still, way back when the shock of seeing a girl doing what is commonly stereotyped to "men's work" was good enough). SNES Samus was actually quite muscular, her midriff has clearly visible abs, and her legs are incredibly toned even just by looking at pixels.
Her GCN/DS era was much more reserved. But recently they've gone back to showing her off, again, depicting her in a less athletic way and more in a 'space babe' way. There's not surprise to her, she's been made to look at.
I will say I'm glad they made her less dorky looking. I loved her Hunters look, but after that the mushroom bangs did so little for me. As is, one of my biggest issues with ZSS is how damn boring it is (and spicing it up with heels isn't that great...heels suck butt). I've loved absolutely every fan interpretation posted here and elsewhere.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Exactly. Can we both agree that, in and of itself, the Zero Suit is not sexist by design? It is, after all, underwear, and there's a degree of sexualization that can't be avoided there for either gender (outside of making the character straight-up unattractive).
Samus's supermodel proportions sex it up a lot, but it's generally seen in situations where you would expect her to actually be wearing it: Her suit is disabled for whatever reason, or she's in a situation where she doesn't really have time to activate it (granted, these situations are likely created to provide an excuse to show her without the suit, but still). The suit may be sexual, but the context is not. To the contrary, her appearance in the end of Super Metroid (for example) is explicitly sexual, and the outfit itself is borderline fetish wear.
That's from Metroid II. Can we please stop pretending that her exaggerated proportions are something recent? She's been a skinny girl with big boobs since the beginning, and the only reason it's more noticeable now is because the hardware allows more more detail.
I'm no fan of Samus' ending screen sexuality teasers, but comparing "shows up for a few seconds" to "becoming increasingly more prominent to the point where you play as her in a skin-tight catsuit for a huge percentage of the game" is ridiculous and patently absurd. It's not more obvious because of the tech, it's more obvious because we're on a downward trend towards the series eventually being all about Samus running around in nothing at all, with the reward for beating the game quick enough being that she shows up in her armour.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Considering how long these games spend in development and how much discussion happens during said development including multiple different passes for a character model I highly doubt that it's unintentional.
What major games are you talking about? And news flash, even if YOU don't see how they're being sexualized, doesn't mean that they're not. Especially concerning characters like Miranda from Mass Effect or ZSS , you think these camera angles were made by accident.
Really bruh?
Yea, totes can't see any sexualization going on here.
Consistently looking the same. To the point that you can literally take the face of each iteration and combine them all into one photo.
Oh, please. Old Big Boss looks so much unlike Naked Snake that "Why doesn't Snake look like Big Boss" is an ongoing point of discussion that needs explaining in every MGS story thread.
Peach's redesign is just too try hard and edgy, I like how they acknowleged the 'psyche bomber' idea from Super Mario RPG but this sort of design is pretty trashy.
Samus' redesign is terrible, over designed and cumbersome and completely unlike the zen space monk ideals she was raised with. The zero suit design is... OK- but they just need to avoid giving her huge ta-tas and space high heels. I would like something more in the direction of Prime and Super Metroids design. As far as people have complained about her older pixel designs, they made them really obviously feminine for a reason- you don't unlock her in sultry poses and wearing cute bunny outfits- you're just supposed to see that he is woman, with the womanly bits and whatnot. The idea of it should of been toned down though but I assume this is Sakamoto showing that he 'knows where her beauty mark is'.
Chun Li's original design is just perfect, do not change a thing about it.
Drow ranger redesign just whacks more plate armor on her, she's supposed to be a forest warden- not a riot police officer.
6/10
Samus' redesign is terrible, over designed and cumbersome and completely unlike the zen space monk ideals she was raised with. The zero suit design is... OK- but they just need to avoid giving her huge ta-tas and space high heels. I would like something more in the direction of Prime and Super Metroids design. As far as people have complained about her older pixel designs, they made them really obviously feminine for a reason- you don't unlock her in sultry poses and wearing cute bunny outfits- you're just supposed to see that he is woman, with the womanly bits and whatnot. The idea of it should of been toned down though but I assume this is Sakamoto showing that he 'knows where her beauty mark is'.
Chun Li's original design is just perfect, do not change a thing about it.
Drow ranger redesign just whacks more plate armor on her, she's supposed to be a forest warden- not a riot police officer.
6/10
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Could've sworn that being that old can lead to a good change in appearance, although they look very very similar. The wrinkles have been put in the same place during each iteration. Solid Snake is way less consistent.
The fan redesigns are a bit of a mixed bag to me. The redesigned Samus gives me Star Wars vibes. I kind of dig it, but it seems out of place maybe there's a middle ground.
I really like the Morrigan and Emma Frost, those artists blew it out of the park, I'm really impressed with them. I also liked the subtle difference in Dizzy's wings in that instead of looking in opposite directions they're facing each other and acknowledging each other in a sort of playful way.
I'm not big on the Fran redesign not that the current one is great, but it feels like too much armor. I guess my problem stems from how the rest of the party wasn't decked out in gear either.
I don't really have much of a take on the rest of the redesigns as some felt very generic or not particularly as inspired, but I did find Taarna's chrome armor amusing and so very 80's. I'd like to see more of these though.
I really like the Morrigan and Emma Frost, those artists blew it out of the park, I'm really impressed with them. I also liked the subtle difference in Dizzy's wings in that instead of looking in opposite directions they're facing each other and acknowledging each other in a sort of playful way.
I'm not big on the Fran redesign not that the current one is great, but it feels like too much armor. I guess my problem stems from how the rest of the party wasn't decked out in gear either.
I don't really have much of a take on the rest of the redesigns as some felt very generic or not particularly as inspired, but I did find Taarna's chrome armor amusing and so very 80's. I'd like to see more of these though.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
By higher resolution, I meant more polygons. Let's take a look at other characters. I can finally dig out examples!
Zelda Brawl-
Zelda Wii U-
Zeldas breasts are DEFINITELY larger in the WiiU version.
Now...for Samus you say 'fan service'. I guess that means fanservice for Zelda too, right? I simply take occams razor and say 'Well, it's different hardware, and not only that they probably had to build the model from the ground up too.'
You want a perfect 1-to-1 carbon copy right down to the breasts for the character. Sure, if you want it to look like the Wii version. I disagree with you saying it's fan service. And I think ZSS looks consistently the same in both versions. The only reason her breasts look 'bigger' IMO is because they had more polygons to work with then before, and thus they appear more refined and more voluptuous. The difference is I don't accuse Sakurai or Nintendo of 'Catering to fans' by doing so, but I take a guess and say it's because it's a completely different model.
EDIT-
You also say Big Boss looks the same in all the iterations. I disagree with you. He has a completely different facial structure. Why? Because it's different hardware. A different model. Just like Samus is a different model on different hardware. Big Boss in MGSV has a more rigid face with more defined lines than his MGS3 model. His eyes are more defined and visible in the MGS3 model as well.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You're missing the point. Larger amount of polygons does not=larger breasts. Zelda's breasts are larger in the WiiU version because the modeler was explicitly told to do so. He could have included a higher fidelity version of the character model without increasing the size of her breasts. Evidently you have no idea how modeling works. And btw yes, randomly increasing Zelda's breast size is fanservice. The character modeler most definitely could've made a 1-1 copy of the original model except with a higher polycount. But they didn't because apparently Zelda and Samus need bigger breasts because reasons.By higher resolution, I meant more polygons. Let's take a look at other characters. I can finally dig out examples!
Zelda Brawl-
Zelda Wii U-
Zeldas breasts are DEFINITELY larger in the WiiU version.
Now...for Samus you say 'fan service'. I guess that means fanservice for Zelda too, right? I simply take occams razor and say 'Well, it's different hardware, and not only that they probably had to build the model from the ground up too.'
You want a perfect 1-to-1 carbon copy right down to the breasts for the character. Sure, if you want it to look like the Wii version. I disagree with you saying it's fan service. And I think ZSS looks consistently the same in both versions. The only reason her breasts look 'bigger' IMO is because they had more polygons to work with then before, and thus they appear more refined and more voluptuous. The difference is I don't accuse Sakurai or Nintendo of 'Catering to fans' by doing so, but I take a guess and say it's because it's a completely different model.
emperorspride188
Member
Creepy individual toes aside, I like this redisign of the zero suit waaaaaaay better.
Perfect
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Do you have proof of this? You also claimed that Samus' breast and butt size increase were explicitly for fanservice. Do you have proof of that? And like I said, larger amount of polygons=More refined/defined models. It's the difference between having triangle breasts that Lara craft had in the PS1 era to more rotund breasts she had in the PS3/360 era.
Edit-For the second bolded..maybe...just maybe it's a completely different model on different hardware? Maybe?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Larger amount of polygons does not=
-bigger butt
-bigger hips
-bigger breasts
yes muscle detail would be more defined if the artist put in the work to do so, which they did, but they also put in the work to make the breasts bigger. The proof is in the comparisons that you keep trying to deny, willful ignorance at this point, and blatant ignorance since you don't know how character modeling works. Edit, maybe it's fanservice, it's most definitely fanservice, for christ sake the first thing we see of her zero suit is a shot of her butt, your desperation tactics in the form of "D-d-d-do you have proof" and blatant tales from your ass on how character models work is quite frankly irritating.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
But it does mean...bouncy breast physics. The physics in the WiiU ZSS model are more defined than the physics on the Wii ZSS model.
Also, I'm waiting for the proof of your claims that Nintendo did it purposely for fanservice, and that the modeler was told to increase Zeldas breast size.
Until then I can't take you seriously.
