If they are going by WoD stuff Vampires die all the time. A gunshot can bring Final Death if the damage is severe enough. WoD Vampires dont need special circumstances in order to die (stake in heart, decapitation, etc).charlequin said:Right. It's Vampire: the Masquerade (essentially.) Unless you choose to remain mortal (in which case you have very much invited it) it will be very difficult to kill your character in the fiction -- and just reducing you to zero life certainly won't do it. It's very likely a set of systems in which certain events can kill a vampire character permanently, and others can set them back quite a bit, but most of the time you'll "die" and come back soon after.
im trying to think of an MMO that has permadeath. What am i missing? Theres Hardcore in D2 but thats a choice to make. How will people react if they are forced to play a character that will go away forever if there is too much lag?animlboogy said:Sounds like a real MMO, instead of a subscription-based amusement park instance-fest. I'm in.
Valnen said:This game will either die or go free to play within 6 months. People are going to quit in droves when they lose their hard work.
Nora Kisaragi said:Ahem...things like this lead to stupid people dying.
Anyone else remember that EQOA Hardcore mode suicide?
nothing is coming to my mind either but Eve, Shadowbane, and Darkfall have destruction of property and financial failure.water_wendi said:im trying to think of an MMO that has permadeath. What am i missing? Theres Hardcore in D2 but thats a choice to make. How will people react if they are forced to play a character that will go away forever if there is too much lag?
If people really want an experience where permadeath is featured just do it voluntarily please. When their character dies they should be the ones to delete their character and start over if thats what they really wish. How many people in this thread that are excited about this permadeath news do this? You can give Wow that PnP feeling!Grayman said:nothing is coming to my mind either but Eve, Shadowbane, and Darkfall have destruction of property and financial failure.
How does that make sense? Instead of people who want perma death getting an MMO with permadeath, they should play an MMO completely not designed with it in mind and have a terrible experience instead?water_wendi said:If people really want an experience where permadeath is featured just do it voluntarily please. When their character dies they should be the ones to delete their character and start over if thats what they really wish. How many people in this thread that are excited about this permadeath news do this? You can give Wow that PnP feeling!
water_wendi said:If people really want an experience where permadeath is featured just do it voluntarily please. When their character dies they should be the ones to delete their character and start over if thats what they really wish. How many people in this thread that are excited about this permadeath news do this? You can give Wow that PnP feeling!
Which MMOs have permadeath?Billychu said:How does that make sense? Instead of people who want perma death getting an MMO with permadeath, they should play an MMO completely not designed with it in mind and have a terrible experience instead?
The MMO this thread is about?water_wendi said:Which MMOs have permadeath?
water_wendi said:Which MMOs have permadeath?
Enjoy your perma lag death.Aselith said:Enjoy Old Republic! Looks like Blizzard made a great game there.
Exactly. CCP might be able to make a sandbox universe where people make their own fun but there is no way they are going to be able to make a decent game here. Their lack of understanding shows with every scrap of news that comes out.Billychu said:The MMO this thread is about?
They're CCP, not USSR.Darklord said:I don't like it. EVE online had brutal death penalties that make things feel more tense but also can ruin the game. And even they didn't have perma death. Just the ship.
Edit: Wait, this is CCCP? Oh god, what madness will this MMO have?
That sounds more true to PnP roots than anything else.animlboogy said:I'm not referring specifically to permadeath. I happened to read the entire description. It sounds like a world where the players actually have an impact as a whole, with factions and such. There's even a single server, instead of splitting up people all over the place. It seems like the goal is actually massively multiplayer gaming, not herding off people into minuscule groups to run from point A to point B in an instance.
TheSeks said:Perma-Death and CCP = Not going to try. Call me a carebear, but being trolled by level 50 Goonswarms as a level 1 Newbie doesn't sound that great to me.
i wasnt directly responding to you but i was just making an observation that the standard MMO experience of instance running was closer to the PnP roots than permadeath. i apologize. i should have been more clear in my post.animlboogy said:I didn't say anything about caring about PnP roots. I don't play Vampire.
The problem is that these kinds of things are not possible in video games let alone MMOs. Even the best such as Torment or MotB are extremely limiting due to the nature of the medium. MMOs have had nothing in this regard, ever. The only thing that would come close would be persistent worlds in NWN but those are run by DMs.I'd certainly play a game that has all the trappings of a real PnP game, though. Get the same group together online, play through content with heavy consequences and lots of opportunity for moral decisions and such... I'm trying to get my friend to play Mask of the Betrayer with me, in fact, which from what I've read seems like it might come close? I haven't played more than the first couple hours of the base campaign.
But we're talking about an MMO. I'm much more interested in exploring worlds that feel cohesive. I'm happy to play other games and skip the subscriptions and F2P nonsense of heavily instanced games.
Have you played EVE? It's a hardcore game where there's real loss when you screw up. Losing a ship could mean losing weeks or months worth of work. Especially when that ship was carrying in game items redeemable for game time. People play the game. They love it. It's successful. Why are you pretending CCP is suddenly a shit tier developer who has know idea how to make an MMO?water_wendi said:Exactly. CCP might be able to make a sandbox universe where people make their own fun but there is no way they are going to be able to make a decent game here. Their lack of understanding shows with every scrap of news that comes out.
People treating their actions and role in the world a bit more seriously? Immersion? Can't forget a sense of danger that cannot be replicated in many other MMOs, and certainly not to the same scale as this.NullPointer said:What possible benefits and positive experiences can come about from permadeath?
I see a lot of upset players in their future.
They currently have one of the best mmo's around. You really think they don't know how to make a good one?water_wendi said:Enjoy your perma lag death.
Exactly. CCP might be able to make a sandbox universe where people make their own fun but there is no way they are going to be able to make a decent game here. Their lack of understanding shows with every scrap of news that comes out.
edit: And their total mistreatment and lack of ability might not mean anything to you but they are using a franchise i hold dear so im not just going to accept bullshit i hear and hope for the best.
charsace said:They currently have one of the best mmo's around. You really think they don't know how to make a good one?
It's not that they're shit. It's that they've only developed 2 or 3 games. The rest were games made by poor little indie teams that Valve stole and put their name on.Aselith said:He also thinks Valve is a shitty dev so...
Because EVE is EVE. This is WoD. CCP has made nothing and demonstrated nothing that gives me any hope that they can pull off a MMO game based on a PnP game centered on storytelling.Billychu said:Have you played EVE? It's a hardcore game where there's real loss when you screw up. Losing a ship could mean losing weeks or months worth of work. Especially when that ship was carrying in game items redeemable for game time. People play the game. They love it. It's successful. Why are you pretending CCP is suddenly a shit tier developer who has know idea how to make an MMO?
If you were only playing with only your friends I'd give the idea more of a chance, and only the smallest of one. But this is going to be an online game, with systems and mechanics gamed by strangers.Kenak said:People treating their actions and role in the world a bit more seriously? Immersion? Can't forget a sense of danger that cannot be replicated in many other MMOs, and certainly not to the same scale as this.
They are going to probably build a world where users create the stories from what they do.water_wendi said:Because EVE is EVE. This is WoD. CCP has made nothing and demonstrated nothing that gives me any hope that they can pull off a MMO game based on a PnP game centered on storytelling.
And i have played EVE. i was there at launch. The hardcoreness or whatever you want to call it did not deter me. The bland gameplay did. CCP is Zyngas ugly, unpopular cousin imo.
Truly the best part, yes.Togglesworlh said:The best part is if you don't like the idea, you don't have to play, since there are a billion MMOs out there exactly like WoW.
Hari Seldon said:I'm sold. A ccp MMO set in a modern setting with nudity and hardcore permadeath is exactly what this wow-clone genre needs.
zmoney said:This is the first I've heard of this game...so a Vampire: The Masquerade MMO....where the hell do I sign up? When is the ball park time frame for release?
It's CCP, they can make their new game for like 3 more years. And I'm serious, we'd better pray for some in-game video to be published, than actually expect any soon release.zmoney said:This is the first I've heard of this game...so a Vampire: The Masquerade MMO....where the hell do I sign up? When is the ball park time frame for release?
If this was some property or franchise i never heard about i wouldnt even care. Thats not the case however. This is something where almost half of my life has been involved with. i love WoD more than any rpg system. More than AD&D. More than Shadowrun. More than Rifts. More than Underground. More than Call of Cthulhu. How this game comes along might not mean anything to you and others in this thread but it means a ton to me.Togglesworlh said:The best part is if you don't like the idea, you don't have to play, since there are a billion MMOs out there exactly like WoW.
I can understand where you're coming from. World of Darkness was a sea change in the world of RPGs at the time. And the entire world they created was just colossal in scope and subtlety.water_wendi said:If this was some property or franchise i never heard about i wouldnt even care. Thats not the case however. This is something where almost half of my life has been involved with. i love WoD more than any rpg system. More than AD&D. More than Shadowrun. More than Rifts. More than Underground. More than Rifts. How this game comes along might not mean anything to you and others in this thread but it means a ton to me.
water_wendi said:If this was some property or franchise i never heard about i wouldnt even care. Thats not the case however. This is something where almost half of my life has been involved with. i love WoD more than any rpg system. More than AD&D. More than Shadowrun. More than Rifts. More than Underground. More than Call of Cthulhu. How this game comes along might not mean anything to you and others in this thread but it means a ton to me.
Permadeath is not a feature in any rpg i can think of barring Call of Cthulhu. Of all the games ive played i used to have a folder with hundreds of characters for dozens of systems all still alive or retired. i only had a handful of characters that died and only a couple were dumb things from crap DMs. The rest were very special collaborative stories i did with old friends that came to a close.NullPointer said:I can understand where you're coming from. World of Darkness was a sea change in the world of RPGs at the time. And the entire world they created was just colossal in scope and subtlety.
Funny but I don't remember permadeath being a core feature of their games.
That they muscle their way into something they didnt create with money means nothing to me.cj_iwakura said:Then you should stop worrying. CCP own White Wolf. I think they know what they're doing.
I had the same experiences with player death. As a GM a death always had to drive or cement the story and not just act as a blind punishment for wrong actions.water_wendi said:Permadeath is not a feature in any rpg i can think of barring Call of Cthulhu. Of all the games ive played i used to have a folder with hundreds of characters for dozens of systems all still alive or retired. i only had a handful of characters that died and only a couple were dumb things from crap DMs. The rest were very special collaborative stories i did with old friends that came to a close.
water_wendi said:That they muscle their way into something they didnt create with money means nothing to me.
That's actually fair. I can understand your position.water_wendi said:If this was some property or franchise i never heard about i wouldnt even care. Thats not the case however. This is something where almost half of my life has been involved with. i love WoD more than any rpg system. More than AD&D. More than Shadowrun. More than Rifts. More than Underground. More than Call of Cthulhu. How this game comes along might not mean anything to you and others in this thread but it means a ton to me.
Togglesworlh said:That's actually fair. I can understand your position.
But you're also a crazy person.
I'm torn!
I disagree. I'm a firm believer that the most important aspects in an MMO are the people playing, giving a sense of community, and a world that feels alive.NullPointer said:The key to MMOs is persistence - to lose all of that because something goes wrong, or you got ganked, or any of the millions of other ways players get killed in online games just seems like a recipe for disaster. Eve is already very hardcore, but even that game includes cloning and insurance, because at the end of the day game systems are imperfect and players are paying to enjoy themselves, not grind for months on end only to watch everything they have done go up in smoke.
I'd like to know more though, as they have to include some mechanism to ameliorate players and keep them from just canceling outright.
By having the experience of getting there be worthwhile in and of itself?balladofwindfishes said:why would someone pay a monthly fee and play for hundreds of hours only to have all that time and money be thrown away when the character dies?