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WSJ reporter : Standard capacity of Switch game card is around 16GB

Personally? I think it will do well - we (as a gaming culture) are too binary when it comes to this sort of thing; we're too quick to say that something has either "succeeded" or "failed" based on metrics that exist outside of our personal desires. I love my Vita and it's my favourite machine (and has been for the past few years) as it fills the exact gaming slot required for my life in terms of accessibility, software and hardware. No matter what people will say, nothing will change that. Doesn't mean it was perfect but no one system is all things to all people.

That said, so far, Nintendo is doing things 'right'. Measured and focused marketing backed with good looking hardware. It showed off the right type of software for a 3 minute teaser (Nintendo games, sports game, big-name western third party title), got the idea of the machine across effectively and efficiently without being distracted by other things (of course it's got a touch screen and some form of motion sensing! But why confuse the messaging and show that this early in the reveal when it's standard for devices?). As I've said on my Twitter feed, this is as confident and focused as I've seen Nintendo in ages. Everything you're seeing and hearing has been mostly planned - although I don't think even the company was prepared for how popular the video would be.

Concerns over power are, by and large, not something Nintendo will be fussed about. Same with storage. This is probably the most developer focused machine the company has created in a while, so for most of the part third parties will have known about these factors for a while. It's not like Nintendo suddenly decided to go with relatively 'low storage carts' yesterday - as shown by how long the rumours have been floating around - and same with the Nvidia soc; the partners are working with Switch with this in mind already, and have been for a while. If the machine sells well enough, and the audience skew is wide enough, you'll see ports. If it doesn't sell well enough, and/or the audience is just your typical 'only buys Nintendo software' kind then you won't see many. Cart sizes and power concerns (neither of which are insurmountable) in today's market, won't be a massive factor for most (not all, but most) third parties.

And it's a smart move to market the first 'ad' to young adults and students, as it's the perfect machine for them (and travellers/commuters like me). Kids will naturally gravitate to this as they always do - you don't need to market directly to older children to get them interested, they go for whatever older influencers like, regardless, hence GTA and COD being so popular with that demographic, for ill or otherwise. Besides: Pokemon.

I honestly feel it will do well (price notwithstanding - although no way this will be more expensive than £/$300 RRP), but part of that will entirely depend on its os and how it approaches the mobile sector. If Nintendo has something which allows you to use Switch with your mobile device - make it an essential companion rather than a competing machine for space in your bag - then it's off to a winner.

You can't fight mobile. But work with it and you'll reap rewards. For example, if Nintendo creates a bluetooth app to mirror your mobile apps and screen on your Switch (like Samsung does with Sidesync between its phones and pcs) then you've created a games machine which doesn't require you to ignore your phone but have it work with it - gaming controls, larger screen, convenience, natural cross over/unlocks with its own mobile games. And so on. Given Nintendo's hush hush - and surprise/success - over its mobile plans with Switch, there's definitely something it has up its sleeve.

Essay over.

Great, insightful, and fascinating post, thank you! (And sorry it wound up on the end of the last page, more people should read it)

It is quite apparent that Nintendo has the utmost confidence in this thing. Renting out the biggest convention center in Japan for 3 days (I think?) says so much about what they have to show off in January. I'm very excited to see whats coming.

People "concerned" about cards or storage limiting what third parties will be capable of doing on the machine are being very narrow-minded. Nintendo is a billion dollar company and by all accounts has created the Switch with more third party feedback than we saw their past two generations, so this strange narrative that they've somehow handicapped the device before it's even been fully revealed needs to go.
 

Spacejaws

Member
Standard is a way of saying minimum. So even if a game is 4GB, it will be released in a 16GB card.

More like Standard is a way of saying Typical. In that when developing for the Switch developers will be encouraged to aim for 16GB linkt and they will make desicions based on that.
 

Zedark

Member
Skyrim would fit the 16GB card just fine though.

The remaster would possible fit on a 16 GB cartridge in NA, but in Europe more GBs are needed for all the voice overs. They would definitely need a 32 GB cartridge if they don't want to gimp the game too much.

Still, I'm pretty sure they will have prepared for distributing 32 and 64 GB cards to publishers for a reasonable price. It would be so dumb for them to sabotage third party support by making porting impossible due to the physical media being incompatible/way too expensive.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
People comparing N64 carts to PS1 games on CD should take note of the sizes in the comparison.

A N64 cart was 4MB to 64MB, so let's use 64MB, while a game like FFVII used 3 CDs (with some duplicated data).

So you're comparing something like a 1:10 (64MBs vs 700MBs) or in more extreme case a 1:40 (32MBs vs 1400MBs) size ratio difference.

With the Switch, you're looking at somewhere around 1:1 (64GBs vs 50GBs + 10GB DLC) or 1:4 (16GB vs 50GB + 10GB DLC) in more extreme cases.

So even at it's worst, it's a much better proposition than the N64 was in relation to the competition. But I believe most larger games could be trimmed to 32GBs without any sacrifice, and certainly any game would be fine on 64GBs for quite a while. Of course, many, many games will fit fine on 16GBs too.

So I'm not worried about the sizes, especially since people can use a 128GB or 256GB microSD card and have dozens of great VC and Wii U ports on it, as well as one or two larger Switch games, plus tons of eShop titles.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Given the trajectory of game card sizes since the DS, 64GB cards will almost certainly be offered immediately, and there shouldn't be anything technically stopping them from providing 128GB or higher cards if necessary. When that happens, will you be asking whether the small size of 50GB Blu-Rays will impact third parties bringing their titles to PS4/XBO?

I see games being limited with 16 GB as common cards and higher as premium more likely than suddenly 256 GB cards being so cheap and inventory management risk free that third parties start optimising for them ;).

The day where 50 GB Blu-Ray become a limitation for physical games you will see 200+ GB Blu-Ray manufactured at a fraction of the cost of equivalently sized carts, subject to smaller minim order requirements, and with a shorter turnaround time.

Moot point anyways because I do not see the console targeting 50 GB + several multi GB DLC's to begin with not the same quality assets Xbox One and PS4, not to mention their 4K focused bigger brothers, are going to use.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
As long as there isn't a one-sized-fits-all pricing model for Switch games I don't see a problem. If, on the other hand, the publisher has to eat the cost of larger cards instead of pushing it onto the consumer I would expect them to push for games that fit on the smaller cards---which let's be honest, might be for the best anyhow, there is no direct correlation between size and quality in this case.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Wrong, Day 1 patch to add content. Refer to that Forza game at Xbox One launch.

Aren't we saying more or less the same thing? That content will be cut to make the game fit a 16gb card and then released as free dlc, many developers won't use a 32gb card jusr for few exceeding gbs.
 
Personally? I think it will do well - we (as a gaming culture) are too binary when it comes to this sort of thing; we're too quick to say that something has either "succeeded" or "failed" based on metrics that exist outside of our personal desires. I love my Vita and it's my favourite machine (and has been for the past few years) as it fills the exact gaming slot required for my life in terms of accessibility, software and hardware. No matter what people will say, nothing will change that. Doesn't mean it was perfect but no one system is all things to all people.

That said, so far, Nintendo is doing things 'right'. Measured and focused marketing backed with good looking hardware. It showed off the right type of software for a 3 minute teaser (Nintendo games, sports game, big-name western third party title), got the idea of the machine across effectively and efficiently without being distracted by other things (of course it's got a touch screen and some form of motion sensing! But why confuse the messaging and show that this early in the reveal when it's standard for devices?). As I've said on my Twitter feed, this is as confident and focused as I've seen Nintendo in ages. Everything you're seeing and hearing has been mostly planned - although I don't think even the company was prepared for how popular the video would be.

Concerns over power are, by and large, not something Nintendo will be fussed about. Same with storage. This is probably the most developer focused machine the company has created in a while, so for most of the part third parties will have known about these factors for a while. It's not like Nintendo suddenly decided to go with relatively 'low storage carts' yesterday - as shown by how long the rumours have been floating around - and same with the Nvidia soc; the partners are working with Switch with this in mind already, and have been for a while. If the machine sells well enough, and the audience skew is wide enough, you'll see ports. If it doesn't sell well enough, and/or the audience is just your typical 'only buys Nintendo software' kind then you won't see many. Cart sizes and power concerns (neither of which are insurmountable) in today's market, won't be a massive factor for most (not all, but most) third parties.

And it's a smart move to market the first 'ad' to young adults and students, as it's the perfect machine for them (and travellers/commuters like me). Kids will naturally gravitate to this as they always do - you don't need to market directly to older children to get them interested, they go for whatever older influencers like, regardless, hence GTA and COD being so popular with that demographic, for ill or otherwise. Besides: Pokemon.

I honestly feel it will do well (price notwithstanding - although no way this will be more expensive than £/$300 RRP), but part of that will entirely depend on its os and how it approaches the mobile sector. If Nintendo has something which allows you to use Switch with your mobile device - make it an essential companion rather than a competing machine for space in your bag - then it's off to a winner.

You can't fight mobile. But work with it and you'll reap rewards. For example, if Nintendo creates a bluetooth app to mirror your mobile apps and screen on your Switch (like Samsung does with Sidesync between its phones and pcs) then you've created a games machine which doesn't require you to ignore your phone but have it work with it - gaming controls, larger screen, convenience, natural cross over/unlocks with its own mobile games. And so on. Given Nintendo's hush hush - and surprise/success - over its mobile plans with Switch, there's definitely something it has up its sleeve.

Essay over.

This is a great post.

Considering how involved Nvidia is with the Switch, I don't think Nintendo's hardware decisions for this thing are in isolation, I'm thinking they've got plenty of feedback from specific developers. The Switch is supposedly very easy to develop for and port to, and PS4 ports are apparently relatively easy affairs, according to rumors from sources that have been fairly reliable so far. The doom and gloom sayings over what are basically rumors are very much premature, methinks.
 
Those who remember the N64 days have to be apprehensive about the 16GB standard storage size. This is a HOME CONSOLE with handheld properties releasing in 2017!!!

The last home console based on cartridges gave us:
- Heavily compressed textures.
- Incredibly foggy games
- Subpar sound/music. We had to deal with mostly midi tracks.
- Resident Evil 2 with heavily compressed/blocky FMV.
- Expensive game cartridges. I am looking at you, TUROK!
- Cancelled games. Final Fantasy 7 was actually started on the N64.
- Games with missing sections compared to PSx versions.

Ofcourse the fast cartridge loading speed was nice but the negatives far outweighed the positive.


Very important that Nintendo gets its messaging right.
If this thing is marketed as a home console first with all it's limitations.... It will turn into a WiiU 2.

Anyone expecting Nintendo to fumble yet again?

Maybe you should look at recent systems that use carts like the 3DS and Vita and see if compression is still an issue.
 

Thraktor

Member
I see games being limited with 16 GB as common cards and higher as premium more likely than suddenly 256 GB cards being so cheap and inventory management risk free that third parties start optimising for them ;).

The day where 50 GB Blu-Ray become a limitation for physical games you will see 200+ GB Blu-Ray manufactured at a fraction of the cost of equivalently sized carts, subject to smaller minim order requirements, and with a shorter turnaround time.

Moot point anyways because I do not see the console targeting 50 GB + several multi GB DLC's to begin with not the same quality assets Xbox One and PS4, not to mention their 4K focused bigger brothers, are going to use.

I certainly don't expect many 128GB games any time soon (although it's worth keeping in mind that they shouldn't be any more expensive in 2017 than the 256MB card used for Archaic Sealed Heat in 2007 or the 4GB card used for RE: Revelations in 2012 were). Unlike PS4 and XBO, though, which are limited to 50GB due to their dual-layer Blu-Ray drives, there shouldn't be anything stopping Nintendo from going as high as they like with game cards later on in the generation as costs come down.

(I also wouldn't expect 200GB optical discs in a consumer device, perhaps ever. Research into optical media has been pretty much non-existent for years now, and even 4K Blu-Rays use the BD-XL standard from back in 2010)
 

gtj1092

Member
Great, insightful, and fascinating post, thank you! (And sorry it wound up on the end of the last page, more people should read it)

It is quite apparent that Nintendo has the utmost confidence in this thing. Renting out the biggest convention center in Japan for 3 days (I think?) says so much about what they have to show off in January. I'm very excited to see whats coming.

People "concerned" about cards or storage limiting what third parties will be capable of doing on the machine are being very narrow-minded. Nintendo is a billion dollar company and by all accounts has created the Switch with more third party feedback than we saw their past two generations, so this strange narrative that they've somehow handicapped the device before it's even been fully revealed needs to go.

Were they not a billion dollar company when they launched the Wii U and 3DS? But then again all we heard then was how the reception for 3DS was so good they raised the launch price and that Wii U was expertly designed with modern shaders and possibly up to 1TF. Nothing strange about wanting to see results after two generations of being underwhelming.


Edit: And are we really hand waving storage concerns by advocating god the purchase of $200 memory cards after the constant complaining about vita memory card prices.
 
If it costs more for larger capacity cartridges, how does the cost structure change? Does the dev/publisher eat the extra cost? Does Nintendo? Or they split the cost? Or does the consumer simply get charged more?

I really see devs and pubs just trying to cram everything into 16-32GB to prevent cost issues. This will mean lower res assets such as textures and audio.

Edit:
Current spot price of flash memory cards at 16Gb (bits, not bytes) is $3 and change. There is no chance that a single layer blu-ray costs more.
 
Great, insightful, and fascinating post, thank you! (And sorry it wound up on the end of the last page, more people should read it)

Ha, cheers, but I think it being a 'last on page post' is pretty much reflective of my posts on Neogaf no matter where they are on the page ;) I tend to lurk more than post, anyway. In any case, thanks again for your input on these threads, especially the dialogue you sometimes have with Thraktor (another good poster), which tends to yield really interesting angles and info.

It is quite apparent that Nintendo has the utmost confidence in this thing. Renting out the biggest convention center in Japan for 3 days (I think?) says so much about what they have to show off in January. I'm very excited to see whats coming.

It's a fascinating approach given the limited time frame of announcement to this event to launch. Of all first parties, Nintendo would be the last I'd expect to attempt this, but here we are. And it's a very strong signal of how the company has changed. No games company can effectively 'do an Apple' and launch out of nowhere due to the logistical complications and importance third parties play on launch day (Apple can launch a phone by itself, but no first party games company can realistically launch without decent third party backing, effective unit quantity/size, established internet and OS infrastructure set up and so on) - at least not yet.

So for Nintendo - often seen as the stuffy Japanese company, set in its ways - this is very surprising. I think we're all judging Nintendo as if it were the same company which launched Wii U. It's clearly not.

People "concerned" about cards or storage limiting what third parties will be capable of doing on the machine are being very narrow-minded. Nintendo is a billion dollar company and by all accounts has created the Switch with more third party feedback than we saw their past two generations, so this strange narrative that they've somehow handicapped the device before it's even been fully revealed needs to go.

True. I mean, I understand why - it's easier to judge a new machine based on previous input, history and expectation, and while it's harder to take these factors and inform them with current knowledge, it's the only way to get a better, potentially more accurate viewpoint of the possible reality. There were lots of clues that Zelda were was going to be a Switch game before it was announced, regardless of it maybe having a single screen, portability and so on, but some were shouting this down this because "Nintendo doesn't work that way", "Nintendo won't abandon two screens", "Nintendo wouldn't sacrifice Zelda to an underpowered machine". Same, "Nintendo can't have good third party support", and so on.

Since the SNES, Nintendo has reacted in the home console market whenever it's taken what it could consider a 'loss' by its competitors. The N64's issues resulted in the Gamecube, which was disc based (propriety, yes, but still better than carts), easier to develop for and more physically modern and compact. The Gamecube's issues resulted in the Wii, which adopted Blue Ocean strategy, new control methods, and the best third party support since the SNES on a Nintendo home format (it had a Rockstar open world game!). Complacency resulted in Wii U, which was muddled from marketing conception to execution...

...Which has led us to Switch.

Which, funnily enough, has clear marketing so far, clear conception and very clear support from third parties, even if we're being skeptical of their intentions.
 
The notion of Nintendo changing course after the Wii U's failure reminds me of the major role reversal between MS and Sony at the start of this gen - recall that last gen that Sony, riding off the incredible success of the PS2, proceeded to boast a PS3 that was not only very expensive, but also difficult to develop for and the reveal conference was fuel for mockery and memes, whereas the Xbox 360 was a reasonably priced system that released before the other consoles and was basically comfortably in first place until the Wii's insane success knocked it into comfortable second. The PS3 eventually caught up due to multiple factors, but by then it had bled so much money out of Sony that all the profits of the previous two generations combined and more were wiped out in a single gen.

But then at the start of this gen, the E3 after the PS4 and Xbone were announced independently, Microsoft went into arrogant mode and proceeded to crash and burn, whereas Sony's conference was basically a major success in the eyes of many (even if at least half of it was actually boring shit nobody cared about, but everyone forgets about that). Sony learned from their mistakes and created a decently powerful console that was reasonably priced and was easier to develop for than any other console before it. Microsoft created a weaker and yet simultaneously more expensive system that had an albatross tied to its neck called the Kinect 2.0 that they eventually had to cut loose when they realized nobody was developing for it and nobody wanted it. They still can't gain momentum to catch up to Sony.

Complacency is a recipe for major mistakes and and opportunity for competitors to overtake you.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Edit: And are we really hand waving storage concerns by advocating god the purchase of $200 memory cards after the constant complaining about vita memory card prices.

Maybe you don't understand what the complaints about vita memory card prices were based on and why a portable non-proprietary storage like SD cards is different.
 
Switch will have at the most 4GB of RAM, and out of that probably only 3GB available for games. 16GB is plenty for such system.

PS4 and XBO has 8GB of RAM, with about 5GB for games. Their games don't usually fill up the entire 25GB BR disc. 25/5= 5:1 storage to RAM ratio.

If Switch ends up with 4GB of RAM and 3 available for games, 16GB carts mean 16/3 = 5.33:1, which is even better storage to RAM ratio than the current gen consoles.
 
The standard size on the DS was 128 MB, and yet we had Ni No Kuni DS at 512 MB

The standard size on the 3DS was 2GB, and yet we had huge games like Xenoblade or graphically intense ones like Resident Evil clocking in at 3 GB with the maximum allowed gamecard size being 8GB

The standard size on the Switch is 16GB, and suddenly you expect that this is going to be the maximum?

As a person who works for a first party this thread hurts my brain.



Matt, you're one of the few voices of reason in this and are actully in the know, yet your words are almost lost in the white noise of fear and fact revisionism, which is sad. Don't give up, some of us are listening.

This isn't the 90s, and these cards aren't cartridges.

Your worrying is misplaced and kinda silly.

Personally? I think it will do well - we (as a gaming culture) are too binary when it comes to this sort of thing; we're too quick to say that something has either "succeeded" or "failed" based on metrics that exist outside of our personal desires. I love my Vita and it's my favourite machine (and has been for the past few years) as it fills the exact gaming slot required for my life in terms of accessibility, software and hardware. No matter what people will say, nothing will change that. Doesn't mean it was perfect but no one system is all things to all people.

That said, so far, Nintendo is doing things 'right'. Measured and focused marketing backed with good looking hardware. It showed off the right type of software for a 3 minute teaser (Nintendo games, sports game, big-name western third party title), got the idea of the machine across effectively and efficiently without being distracted by other things (of course it's got a touch screen and some form of motion sensing! But why confuse the messaging and show that this early in the reveal when it's standard for devices?). As I've said on my Twitter feed, this is as confident and focused as I've seen Nintendo in ages. Everything you're seeing and hearing has been mostly planned - although I don't think even the company was prepared for how popular the video would be.

Concerns over power are, by and large, not something Nintendo will be fussed about. Same with storage. This is probably the most developer focused machine the company has created in a while, so for most of the part third parties will have known about these factors for a while. It's not like Nintendo suddenly decided to go with relatively 'low storage carts' yesterday - as shown by how long the rumours have been floating around - and same with the Nvidia soc; the partners are working with Switch with this in mind already, and have been for a while. If the machine sells well enough, and the audience skew is wide enough, you'll see ports. If it doesn't sell well enough, and/or the audience is just your typical 'only buys Nintendo software' kind then you won't see many. Cart sizes and power concerns (neither of which are insurmountable) in today's market, won't be a massive factor for most (not all, but most) third parties.

And it's a smart move to market the first 'ad' to young adults and students, as it's the perfect machine for them (and travellers/commuters like me). Kids will naturally gravitate to this as they always do - you don't need to market directly to older children to get them interested, they go for whatever older influencers like, regardless, hence GTA and COD being so popular with that demographic, for ill or otherwise. Besides: Pokemon.

I honestly feel it will do well (price notwithstanding - although no way this will be more expensive than £/$300 RRP), but part of that will entirely depend on its os and how it approaches the mobile sector. If Nintendo has something which allows you to use Switch with your mobile device - make it an essential companion rather than a competing machine for space in your bag - then it's off to a winner.

You can't fight mobile. But work with it and you'll reap rewards. For example, if Nintendo creates a bluetooth app to mirror your mobile apps and screen on your Switch (like Samsung does with Sidesync between its phones and pcs) then you've created a games machine which doesn't require you to ignore your phone but have it work with it - gaming controls, larger screen, convenience, natural cross over/unlocks with its own mobile games. And so on. Given Nintendo's hush hush - and surprise/success - over its mobile plans with Switch, there's definitely something it has up its sleeve.

Essay over.

I feel the need to quote these so they don't get lost in the sea of people not understanding (unintentionally or intentionally) the situations at play here, but also to praise cBrotherson's amazing post, clear concise and measured
 
The notion of Nintendo changing course after the Wii U's failure reminds me of the major role reversal between MS and Sony at the start of this gen - recall that last gen that Sony, riding off the incredible success of the PS2, proceeded to boast a PS3 that was not only very expensive, but also difficult to develop for and the reveal conference was fuel for mockery and memes, whereas the Xbox 360 was a reasonably priced system that released before the other consoles and was basically comfortably in first place until the Wii's insane success knocked it into comfortable second. The PS3 eventually caught up due to multiple factors, but by then it had bled so much money out of Sony that all the profits of the previous two generations combined and more were wiped out in a single gen.

But then at the start of this gen, the E3 after the PS4 and Xbone were announced independently, Microsoft went into arrogant mode and proceeded to crash and burn, whereas Sony's conference was basically a major success in the eyes of many (even if at least half of it was actually boring shit nobody cared about, but everyone forgets about that). Complacency is a recipe for major mistakes and and opportunity for competitors to overtake you.

Very much so. Companies are very, very reflective but they're made up of humans at the end of the day. We make mistakes, miss things, make poor decisions based on bad AND good data, and so on. It's easy to say "don't make the same mistake twice", but staff changes over time and sometimes you don't realise you're just making the same mistake from a different route. Worse, when something works, it's easy to just keep doing that - why change a winning formula, right? - but you then disregard that others are working to change what didn't work for them, which could reduce the effectiveness of your own strategy.

In the games industry, it's easy to play chess when you're winning (after someone else won at checkers), not realising that everyone else has already changed to The Game of Life ;-)
 
That stuff will be stored on the system's internal memory card. The 16GB is only for the game itself. Patches, DLC and the like should be stored on the system.

If it only has 32GB of internal memory that's no where near enough storage for patches and DLC. It needs to be on the card itself like what the Vita (and I assume 3DS) do.
 

tronic307

Member
Switch will have at the most 4GB of RAM, and out of that probably only 3GB available for games. 16GB is plenty for such system.

PS4 and XBO has 8GB of RAM, with about 5GB for games. Their games don't usually fill up the entire 25GB BR disc. 25/5= 5:1 storage to RAM ratio.

If Switch ends up with 4GB of RAM and 3 available for games, 16GB carts mean 16/3 = 5.33:1, which is even better storage to RAM ratio than the current gen consoles.
I think it'll be 6GB.
 

EDarkness

Member
If it only has 32GB of internal memory that's no where near enough storage for patches and DLC. It needs to be on the card itself like what the Vita (and I assume 3DS) do.

The 3DS stores DLC on the internal storage. If 32GB isn't enough, then players have the option of buying a bigger mSD card. I got a 32GB card for my DS. I assume the NS will allow for 128GB or larger cards as well.
 

R00bot

Member
Let's make a friendly wager on this. No way in hell in my mind it's over 4GB.

My phone has 6 gig of RAM (the fastest RAM atm too), all those fancy sensors and shit, 16mp front and 8mp back cameras, 1080p screen, all aluminium build, fingerprint reader, and more stuff the Switch won't need, and it cost just over $300. (also has snapdragon 820 and stuff)
I think the Switch can do 6 gigs of ram for $300 pretty easily, even if it's slower RAM like the Xbox One.
 
My phone has 6 gig of RAM (the fastest RAM atm too), all those fancy sensors and shit, 16mp front and 8mp back cameras, 1080p screen, all aluminium build, fingerprint reader, and more stuff the Switch won't need, and it cost just over $300. (also has snapdragon 820 and stuff)
I think the Switch can do 6 gigs of ram for $300 pretty easily, even if it's slower RAM like the Xbox One.

Sounds like you also want to get in on the bet. Our avatars are the prize. 1 month of what winner assigns.
 

Terrell

Member
I said this in another thread talking about digital download sizes, but it's applicable here too.

A good chunk of a game's size comes in the form of 1080p video encoded with h.264. When you look at Metal Gear Rising, for an example, something around 75% of the space used for the game came from FMV cutscenes, and those were encoded at 720p.

h.264 as a codec is supremely long in the tooth, but HEVC (aka h.265, the successor to h.264 meant to handle 4K video through better compression) is not seeing a wide adoption due to the MPEG consortium's absurd licensing scheme.

But by the time Switch is released in March, we will finally have a codec with smaller encoded video sizes, AV1, the spiritual successor to Google's VP9, an open standard which is being designed by a consortium that includes Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Amazon, Cisco and, for future hardware encoding purposes, Nvidia, AMD, Broadcom and ARM.

I can foresee utilization of this codec pushing game file sizes down dramatically and thus lessening the need for larger cartridges or more internal storage overall. Paired with FLAC audio codecs, you see a further reduction through lossless compressed audio.

If Nintendo were on top of this (which they might be, since their hardware partners could easily turn them onto the idea), I see game sizes being far less of an issue for them overall.

Lossless audio isn't needed, at all. Ever. The only times you may hear a difference between compressed 320kbps MP3 for example and a lossless recording is very well recorded orchestral piece which makes heavy use of the overtone series. E.g. Spectralism. And even then, it's extremely debatable on whether there actually is a difference. I don't think 99.99999% of people would hear the difference and even if you can, it may very well be placebo. Most audio engineers I've worked with/have spoken to, think the same of lossless audio on a consumer level. The quality of a recording, mastering and your speakers/player matter more than lossless audio. It's good to work with in a mastering environment, but not much else.

In the context of this conversation, though, where a lot of the audio in games is uncompressed, it still makes an impact without a degradation in quality.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Those who remember the N64 days have to be apprehensive about the 16GB standard storage size. This is a HOME CONSOLE with handheld properties releasing in 2017!!!

The last home console based on cartridges gave us:
- Heavily compressed textures.
- Incredibly foggy games
- Subpar sound/music. We had to deal with mostly midi tracks.
- Resident Evil 2 with heavily compressed/blocky FMV.
- Expensive game cartridges. I am looking at you, TUROK!
- Cancelled games. Final Fantasy 7 was actually started on the N64.
- Games with missing sections compared to PSx versions.

Ofcourse the fast cartridge loading speed was nice but the negatives far outweighed the positive.


Very important that Nintendo gets its messaging right.
If this thing is marketed as a home console first with all it's limitations.... It will turn into a WiiU 2.

Anyone expecting Nintendo to fumble yet again?

We are in 2016, soon to be in 2017. If anything, the 3DS has shown that those things are things from the past.
 

big_erk

Member
dog_in_circles.gif


This thread right about now.
 

foltzie1

Member
I said this in another thread talking about digital download sizes, but it's applicable here too.

A good chunk of a game's size comes in the form of 1080p video encoded with h.264. When you look at Metal Gear Rising, for an example, something around 75% of the space used for the game came from FMV cutscenes, and those were encoded at 720p.

h.264 as a codec is supremely long in the tooth, but HEVC (aka h.265, the successor to h.264 meant to handle 4K video through better compression) is not seeing a wide adoption due to the MPEG consortium's absurd licensing scheme.

But by the time Switch is released in March, we will finally have a codec with smaller encoded video sizes, AV1, the spiritual successor to Google's VP9, an open standard which is being designed by a consortium that includes Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Amazon, Cisco and, for future hardware encoding purposes, Nvidia, AMD, Broadcom and ARM.

I can foresee utilization of this codec pushing game file sizes down dramatically and thus lessening the need for larger cartridges or more internal storage overall. Paired with FLAC audio codecs, you see a further reduction through lossless compressed audio.

If Nintendo were on top of this (which they might be, since their hardware partners could easily turn them onto the idea), I see game sizes being far less of an issue for them overall.

Wouldn't the AV1 codec need to be finalized already for it to be hardware supported?

Though software support may still perform better than hardware h.264 decoding.
 

Terrell

Member
Wouldn't the AV1 codec need to be finalized already for it to be hardware supported?

Though software support may still perform better than hardware h.264 decoding.

It'd require more utilization of the CPU and GPU to decode them, but not enough to have a profound impact.

And yes, hardware decoders aren't expected until 2018, as the spec is currently in testing until its proposed March release.
 

ggx2ac

Member
It'd require more utilization of the CPU and GPU to decode them, but not enough to have a profound impact.

And yes, hardware decoders aren't expected until 2018, as the spec is currently in testing until its proposed March release.

I'm sure there'll be more concern trolling in this thread regardless of any next-gen compression technologies.
 

vern

Member
Let's make a friendly wager on this. No way in hell in my mind it's over 4GB.

You are gonna win.


Switch will have at the most 4GB of RAM, and out of that probably only 3GB available for games. 16GB is plenty for such system.

PS4 and XBO has 8GB of RAM, with about 5GB for games. Their games don't usually fill up the entire 25GB BR disc. 25/5= 5:1 storage to RAM ratio.

If Switch ends up with 4GB of RAM and 3 available for games, 16GB carts mean 16/3 = 5.33:1, which is even better storage to RAM ratio than the current gen consoles.

Hows 3.2 available for games sound?
 

R00bot

Member
Sounds like you also want to get in on the bet. Our avatars are the prize. 1 month of what winner assigns.

Ehh I'm not that confident that they will but I'm sure they could. I'll take you up on that bet I suppose for some fun. I'll almost definitely forget about this though so you'll have to message me when we find out lol.
 

vern

Member
Ehh I'm not that confident that they will but I'm sure they could. I'll take you up on that bet I suppose for some fun. I'll almost definitely forget about this though so you'll have to message me when we find out lol.

Don't do it😵
 

EDarkness

Member
I know some things. Scroll up.

I've dropped a few hints in various places on GAF but I obviously can't show any proof of anything so...hard to know what to do with my knowledge

I'd be careful about what you think you know, man. Mods are crazy around here.
 
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