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[Fafalada]

Aweful. Who needs buttons besides chicks with long fingernails?

While I agree that design in particular is stupid, actually typing on a touch panel is equivalent of pulling your fingernails out in terms of ergonomics.

Whether typing is a necessary form of input on a handheld device is another matter alltogether though.

 

[PistolGrip]

If Sony makes a PSPhone, let HTC design it, and let it run Android.

I say let SONY design it, let HTC and other manufactures build it (perhaps give HTC branding in order to make betters deals with HTC) with the of SONY engineers. Android is a given with PSN integrated.

I say there is definitely space for both a PAD, PHONE and a new PSP.

PSP2 phone: Go Design with 3G, GPS, wifi, bluetooth and a twistable camera on the right side of the screen (skype, google voice). Also two analog sticks of the quality of the 3DS. Android OS.

PSP2: Same as above but no 3g, only wifi.

PSPPad: Same size as the ipad or a little bit smaller, have the controls pull out to the sides similar to this mockup:

Sorry for the poor chop job, I dont have photoshop at work and paint is just a pain. Anyway the triggers would be to the side and the analogs would be bellow the buttons not above them.

Pad should also have a camera. The cost of the pad should be subsidized by the content bought through it. I say charge an $0.01-$5 more for pad downloads (books, movies and games) price the pad competively and make money on the content. Why charge more for pad downloads? Because you are going to give these fkers free limited 3G thats why. You can also have a PSN+ service with full unlimited 3G can be provided with a subscription $49.99 monthly but you get free game downloads (games older than a month) and selected movies.

Home on the pad would be awesome lol

 

[gofreak]

I think they'd have to be careful with how 'game-y' control bits are integrated with the design.

Assuming this approach of 'neutral' devices that have the next generation of portable Playstation rolled into them, I do not know if sticking conspicuously game-y bits onto it is a good idea or not. Of course at the same time we're presuming they want to support 'serious' games. So balancing that would be one of the other big challenges.

It is interesting to recap recent history though, and you can perhaps see a picture forming depending on how much you read between the lines.

First Sony partnering on GoogleTV. This isn't just about GoogleTV in fact - the companies actually announced a broader alliance centered around Android, something that was easy to overlook. Google TV is apparently only 'the first step'.

Press Release: Sony and Google Establish Strategic Alliance to Deliver Compelling New Cloud-based Products and Services With the Android Platform

Sony Corporation (NYSE:SNE) and Google Inc. (NASDAQ:GOOG) today announced an alliance to provide a range of new and rich entertainment experiences that combine Google's open-source Android OS platform with Sony's expertise in technology and product design. The two companies are exploring the joint development of compelling new Android-based hardware products for the home, mobile and personal product categories.

Going forward, Sony and Google aim to maximize their respective industry-leading technological expertise to deliver products and services that empower users with easy access to compelling content, whenever and wherever they require it. The two companies are also exploring extending the alliance in connection with Sony's wide range of entertainment assets to establish new forms of cloud-based user experiences.

In interviews, Stringer is BIG on this deal. It seems logical Google would very much desire Android in on Playstation hardware assets. It is perhaps noteworthy that the people in charge of GoogleTV are a mix of former Vaio and SCE people who are working under NPS - Kaz Hirai's division.

One other interesting thing is that at the time this was announced, Stringer was also pressed on how he saw Android and PSN/Qriocity co-existing on Sony's TVs, with the obvious suggestion that there might be conflict; but he was pretty dismissive of that, saying that they were two channels that would be unified on Sony's TVs. That's perhaps an easier trick on TVs where the content is movies and video, not software...but still, I thought it was interesting.

The second notable stuff is these WSJ rumours, and also more directly a WSJ interview with Sony's CFO, Nobuyuki Oneda, who said Sony 'has to develop a device similar to Apple's iPad tablet computer, because it is a different product category than the company's existing electronic-book reader.'

Then, in June, SCE trademarked 'PlayView'. It carries a litany of classifications that seem very relevant (including "Portable electronic device for receiving and reading text and images and sound through wireless Internet access", "Downloadable video game software", "Tablet computer for e-book reader", "Downloadable music files" etc. etc. etc.)

So, without wanting to put 2 and 2 together and getting 5, there might be something brewing under SCE's direction. If Sony/SCE was making tablet-like devices (or more), after that Google alliance, it would seem very strange if it wasn't powered by Android, or a flavour thereof. Question is how/if Playstation fits in. If the next-gen portable Playstation platform is being rolled wholesale into the above scenario, it would be a very big mark on the road for Playstation in general. The ramifications would be potentially huge.

Sorry for the thinking-out-loud, but I was wondering if we were speculating too far ahead with the whole Android connection, so I went looking for more info, and thought others might benefit from the re-cap too. But it actually doesn't seem so far-fetched looking at all that's been going on the last few months.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

lol would that really mean that the PSP2 would have support for Google TV, or more inline with that, Android support?

 

[garrickk]

Great write up, gofreak.

I'd personally like to see the next PSP, and even the PS4, effectively make their software a skin on top of a (probably very locked down) Android/Chrome OS. It would be opened to a much larger world of connectivity, obviously, and I doubt Google's negotiated slice would be unpalatable to Sony.

 

[hxa155]

Sony + Google working on PSP2 would be great actually. Google wants to beat Apple and Sony wants to beat Nintendo so this alliance makes perfect sense.

 

[gofreak]

lol would that really mean that the PSP2 would have support for Google TV, or more inline with that, Android support?

GoogleTV is Android, basically. It's a custom version for TVs.

There's a couple possibilities for PSP2.

1) There is a PSP2 and it has nothing to do with Android. Sony has a separate new range of Android based devices that have a bit of Playstation compatibility (e.g. PSone playback). This is probably the approach that would be most expected.

2) There is no PSP2 per se. SCE launches a new brand which incorporates the next-gen PSP platform, manifested in a range of devices. These devices are powered by Android.

Place your bets

 

[Vinci]

Sony + Google working on PSP2 would be great actually. Google wants to beat Apple and Sony wants to beat Nintendo so this alliance makes perfect sense.

Until Nintendo and Apple join forces and fuck everyone royally. j/k

 

[blu]

why would sony assign a design to HTC? that makes zero sense.

as for sony going android with their next convergence platform - android is not the only, or the best, freely available mobile platform out there - it has the marketplace going for it, but that can't possibly be of much interest to sony, who have their own DD services, large-scale investment in infastructures, etc. something like meego could be a more natural choice for sony due to proper vertical integration (phones and tablets have their versions from the get go, in contrast to the one-android-fits-all situation currently), solid codebase (maemo and moblin heritage) and level of internals customisation far beyond what android offers (hint: try removing the JVM from it, see how it fares). basically, android is a natural choice for 'i got the hw and i need some sw platform to sell with it' phone/sub-tablet vendors. not for sony.

of course at the end of the day sony being sony, they'd rather go with something in-house.

 

[V_Ben]

GoogleTV is Android, basically. It's a custom version for TVs.

There's a couple possibilities for PSP2.

1) There is a PSP2 and it has nothing to do with Android. Sony has a separate new range of Android based devices that have a bit of Playstation compatibility (e.g. PSone playback). This is probably the approach that would be most expected.

2) There is no PSP2 per se. SCE launches a new brand which incorporates the next-gen PSP platform, manifested in a range of devices. These devices are powered by Android.

Place your bets

The Playstation PlayView has a nice ring to it I can really see sony and google joining forces to create the ultimate smartphone-type-thing.

So, option 2.

 

[gofreak]

why would sony assign a design to HTC? that makes zero sense.

as for sony going android with their next convergence platform - android is not the only, or the best, freely available mobile platform out there - it has the marketplace going for it, but that can't possibly be of much interest to sony, who have their own DD services, large-scale investment in infastructures, etc. something like meego could be a more natural choice for sony due to proper vertical integration (phones and tablets have their versions from the get go, in contrast to the one-android-fits-all situation currently), solid codebase (maemo and moblin heritage) and level of internals customisation far beyond what android offers (hint: try removing the JVM from it, see how it fares). basically, android is a natural choice for 'i got the hw and i need some sw platform to sell with it' phone/sub-tablet vendors. not for sony.

of course at the end of the day sony being sony, they'd rather go with something in-house.

Assuming they were shopping around for a partner platform, Android has the big advantage of having a lot of developer support and attention. Outside of Apple's platform - which ain't an option - probably the best. edit - well there's Blackberry too...dunno if it's better supported than Android or not, but regardless it's very business orientated, so not sure if it would be a good fit for Sony.

The only reason Sony would partner like this would be for the general app support it would give them out of the box. As I said earlier, if they want to have a credible generalist device, they need the software ecosystem to match. Android can give them that on a plate.

Of course, there's the question of how things would be designed so that Android and Sony's own licensed Playstation development process could co-exist on such devices. I see some possibilities there, but it would be a question for them for sure. But otherwise...

The Playstation PlayView has a nice ring to it I can really see sony and google joining forces to create the ultimate smartphone-type-thing.

So, option 2.

I think it would just be Sony PlayView...needs to be neutral if they're headed in this kind of direction.

 

[Corto]

I wonder when will we hear something more tangible about this purported PSP2? Gamescon perhaps? The cherry on top would be Sony pulling an Apple and unveiling this device with: "and it's available starting tomorrow in all retail chains".

 

[Raistlin]

And to think people were jumping on me for saying I expect it to use Android earlier :\

 

[Corto]

And to think people were jumping on me for saying I expect it to use Android earlier :\

I was jumping with you not on you...

 

[Raistlin]

wow I just realized the innuendo in that phrase :lol

 

[loosus]

Good on Sony. "It just does everything" has worked so well in the console space that it makes sense to do it in handhelds, as well.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

I wonder when will we hear something more tangible about this purported PSP2? Gamescon perhaps? The cherry on top would be Sony pulling an Apple and unveiling this device with: "and it's available starting tomorrow in all retail chains".

That's actually called pulling a Saturn.

 

[Tellaerin]

And lose.

Being the market leader is always nice, but it's not always necessary, or even realistic to expect. As long as they can find a profitable niche for this thing and cultivate it, it's a win for them.

Most GAFfers seem to treat every market like a horse race. If you can't be the winner, you should just give up and go home. Reality is a little more nuanced than that.

 

[Raistlin]

lies

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Being the market leader is always nice, but it's not always necessary, or even realistic to expect. As long as they can find a profitable niche for this thing and cultivate it, it's a win for them.

Most GAFfers seem to treat every market like a horse race. If you can't be the winner, you should just give up and go home. Reality is a little more nuanced than that.

lol, I knew I wasnt crazy to have realized that. Too bad people offline also see it that way as well, even store clerks

 

[Averon]

Being the market leader is always nice, but it's not always necessary, or even realistic to expect. As long as they can find a profitable niche for this thing and cultivate it, it's a win for them.

Most GAFfers seem to treat every market like a horse race. If you can't be the winner, you should just give up and go home. Reality is a little more nuanced than that.

Seriously. Who cares if the PSP platform been profitable overall for Sony. If they're not in first place, they should just give up.

 

[Byakuya769]

it's all coming together....

This movement could explain why they seem comfortable letting Sony Ericson flounder around with android 1.6 on all their phones for the time being.

 

[zoku88]

If sony does decide to use android on their game machines, it would have to be a heavily modified version of them to ensure that the software could only run on their machines AND to make sure that developers can't make games and distribute then without sony's approval, especially concerning royalties.

It would be so changed that you guys probably wouldn't care whether it was android or not.

it's all coming together....

This movement could explain why they seem comfortable letting Sony Ericson flounder around with android 1.6 on all their phones for the time being.

They're comfortable because anyone can use android. You don't need google's approval.

 

[Byakuya769]

They're comfortable because anyone can use android. You don't need google's approval.

Hence me pointing out that their platform is still using 1.6 instead of more recent iterations.

 

[Takao]

I'd say the PSP branding is dead (it simply carries a lot of baggage, and PSP2 doesn't roll off the tongue), and that any new handheld Sony releases would be named something else, say "PlayStation Mobile", or the aforementioned PlayView.

 

[Raistlin]

If sony does decide to use android on their game machines, it would have to be a heavily modified version of them to ensure that the software could only run on their machines AND to make sure that developers can't make games and distribute then without sony's approval, especially concerning royalties.

It would be so changed that you guys probably wouldn't care whether it was android or not.

Or it could be like PS3 was with OtherOS.

I'd say the PSP branding is dead (it simply carries a lot of baggage, and PSP2 doesn't roll off the tongue), and that any new handheld Sony releases would be named something else, say "PlayStation Mobile", or the aforementioned PlayView.

Exactly what baggage is associated with it? The fact it's the only handheld that's ever coexisted with Nintendo portables? Or the fact it's sold more systems than the GameCube and Xbox combined?

Yeah, terrible branding :\

You're exactly what everyone's talking about on this page :lol. Perfect timing.

 

[Massa]

How would licensing fees apply to a Linux/Android based PSP2?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

How would licensing fees apply to a Linux/Android based PSP2?

Android is free. If Sony wanted the Android Market, Gmail, or YouTube, they'd have to pay Google.

 

[Massa]

Android is free. If Sony wanted the Android Market, Gmail, or YouTube, they'd have to pay Google.

I was actually thinking of the royalties paid by game developers and publishers. How would Sony be able to collect these using an open platform like Linux/Android?

 

[Raistlin]

I was actually thinking of the royalties paid by game developers and publishers. How would Sony be able to collect these using an open platform like Linux/Android?

For the 3rd time ... they could set it up like OtherOS.

 

[CryptiK]

2 thumbsticks and 4 shoulder buttons thats all I ask.

 

[zoku88]

For the 3rd time ... they could set it up like OtherOS.

then, you mean block off access to the gpu? That still means that there are certain games that could be released that would've required sony's approval to be able to play on psp but can just be released on the market.

I just don't see how this could help them unless they block you from installing your own apps. But then, that doesn't really you then.

And anyway, you're basically suggesting that the psp should have two os's on it. That doesn't seem very ideal.

 

[gofreak]

I suppose they've a few options.

1) Throw away license fees altogether and make money on hardware and their own software only (unlikely).

2) Set up their own Sony marketplace. There's nothing to say a Android device has to come with Google's marketplace. This would mean that Android developers could submit their apps to Sony's marketplace, with Sony taking a percentage on each sold (effectively a license fee).

3) As 2) but with extra security to ensure only apps acquired through Sony's marketplace can run on the device.

4) No restriction on apps, but sandboxing them to run on a subset of the system's capability (i.e. the minimum required for the version of Android supported). Have a separate process that gives licensed devs full access to the hardware and all the other PlayView-specific bits and bobs (e.g. analog stick(s) etc.). Such developers would also have access to all the normal processes for publishing games on physical media (I'd be a wee bit surprised if Sony threw away physical media).

I'm not sure any one of these on their own would be the way they'd go; I'm guessing a mix of 2, 3 and the same hardware restrictions as 4 might be the most likely bet. 4 on its own would possibly lead to an inevitable erosion over time of their own closed platform (as Android versions improved...assuming Sony kept up to date with them as and when possible).

 

[zoku88]

I suppose they've a few options.

1) Throw away license fees altogether and make money on hardware and their own software only (unlikely).

2) Set up their own Sony marketplace. There's nothing to say a Android device has to come with Google's marketplace. This would mean that Android developers could submit their apps to Sony's marketplace, with Sony taking a percentage on each sold (effectively a license fee).

3) As 2) but with extra security to ensure only apps acquired through Sony's marketplace can run on the device.

4) No restriction on apps, but sandboxing them to run on a subset of the system's capability (i.e. the minimum required for the version of Android supported). Have a separate process that gives licensed devs full access to the hardware and all the other PlayView-specific bits and bobs (e.g. analog stick(s) etc.).

I'm not sure any one of these on their own would be the way they'd go; I'm guessing a mix of 2, 3 and the same hardware restrictions as 4 might be the most likely bet. 4 on its own would possibly lead to an inevitable erosion over time of their own closed platform (as Android versions improved...assuming Sony kept up to date with them as and when possible).

The problem I have with 2 and 3, I don't think most non game developers would go for that. I mean, I think a lot of the developers develop on the android because of it's openness. Otherwise, they would probably be on the app store.

I also don't really see the point for sony anyway. Just seems like more work for them. Strangely, 1 seems like a better idea. From the user prospective. They might not make that much money though. I don't really see the point of a non open android.

With 4: With closing down part if the system, without having two separate os's, that seems pretty hard. I mean, what could you do to make sure that unlicensed games don't run on it? Anyone can use an api if you just know how. It's like the software would have to contact

 

[gofreak]

The problem I have with 2 and 3, I don't think most non game developers would go for that. I mean, I think a lot of the developers develop on the android because of it's openness. Otherwise, they would probably be on the app store.

This would only become different on Sony's if they went with 3) . If they did, it would become a question for developers of whether the audience on Sony's was worth sacrificing their ideals about total openness. Audience would be the biggest factor here; if Sony's devices had a large audience, I think it would almost become a default for developers to simultaneously submit apps to Google's and Sony's marketplaces, regardless of whether the latter was the only way to get onto Sony's devices or not.

With 4: With closing down part if the system, without having two separate os's, that seems pretty hard. I mean, what could you do to make sure that unlicensed games don't run on it? Anyone can use an api if you just know how. It's like the software would have to contact

I'm sure it's possible to grant and revoke capabilities to software on the same OS. And you can't write to an API if you don't know what it is (libs relating to Sony specific stuff would only be available to licensed devs). If push came to shove they could seperate the OSes though, boot into their own gameos seamlessly when you launch a licensed game.

 

[zoku88]

This would only become different on Sony's if they went with 3) . If they did, it would become a question for developers of whether the audience on Sony's was worth sacrificing their ideals about total openness. Audience would be the biggest factor here; if Sony's devices had a large audience, I think it would almost become a default for developers to simultaneously submit apps to Google's and Sony's marketplaces, regardless of whether the latter was the only way to get onto Sony's devices or not.

As for your suggestion, that seems very suboptimal. Either that would require a reboot or a virtual machine, which is very intensive.


I'm sure it's possible to grant and revoke capabilities to software on the same OS. And you can't write to an API if you don't know what it is (libs relating to Sony specific stuff would only be available to licensed devs). If push came to shove they could seperate the OSes though, boot into their own gameos seamlessly when you launch a licensed game.

What I was saying is that you don't studly have to produce a licensed game to use the api's. You would just need to find them somehow. Buy a dev kit or something? The point is, when you know the api's, there's nothing stopping you from releasing a game that uses those api's without sony's approval.

As I said before with the openness thing, if they didn't care about it, the would already develop for the iphone.

 

[Raistlin]

dp

 

[Raistlin]

then, you mean block off access to the gpu?

Who says they have to do that? I'm saying they can have a separate GameOS completely separate from Android. Just because PS3 blocked the GPU doesn't mean this would have to.

That still means that there are certain games that could be released that would've required sony's approval to be able to play on psp but can just be released on the market.

I just don't see how this could help them unless they block you from installing your own apps. But then, that doesn't really you then.

And anyway, you're basically suggesting that the psp should have two os's on it. That doesn't seem very ideal.

I'm not sure why it isn't ideal. Dedicated games, and then full Android. How is that bad?

 

[zoku88]

Who says they have to do that? I'm saying they can have a separate GameOS completely separate from Android. Just because PS3 blocked the GPU doesn't mean this would have to.

Then see above.

 

[Raistlin]

no you

 

[zoku88]

Who says they have to do that? I'm saying they can have a separate GameOS completely separate from Android. Just because PS3 blocked the GPU doesn't mean this would have to.




I'm not sure why it isn't ideal. Dedicated games, and then full Android. How is that bad?

so, you're on android and you decide to play a game. What exactly happens?

 

[Raistlin]

an 'app' that launches the GameOS? I'm sure there's a million different ways to do it.

 

[zoku88]

an 'app' that launches the GameOS? I'm sure there's a million different ways to do it.

So, this game os is something running within android? does that seem fast to you?

 

[spwolf]

ehm, google allows 3rd party stores on android.. you dont have to use android store.

 

[Ashes]

I think you mean like a psp device that let's sony take care of the games and android the apps if you will. Apps are open marketplace. PSN is psn. In fact I don't see why PSN can't be like what steam is to PC.

 

[Corto]

so, you're on android and you decide to play a game. What exactly happens?

This is just aspirational, not predictive, but I would like the front end of this device to be the Android powered part, there should be a desktop shortcut to XMB Sony interface and then you access the Playstation interface. The transition should be seamlessly, or as seamlessly it can be jumping from interface to interface. As fas as the other question that you made concerning what would prevent a dev from releasing his game on the Android market, I think that that will be the projected pricing of the game. The Android Market is directed to lowprice to freeware software, I don't think that Konami, Ubisoft, EA will be interested to enter a market so aggressively directed to low price. If they want to be paid as a full fledged PSP game they will have to come to Sony as it is now... But this is only wishful thinking. And I'm loving it!

 

[zoku88]

I think you mean like a psp device that let's sony take care of the games and android the apps if you will. Apps are open marketplace. PSN is psn. In fact I don't see why PSN can't be like what steam is to PC.

I mean, you still would have to do something that would prevent people making full games without sony's approval. I mean, it can't be at the api level, since any app could use an api. As for the psn thing, what about physical games? If there's drm thing going on psn, how would physical media do?

Unless you don't think they're will be any physical media. No backwards compatibility? Not only that, but I just don't they would do a dd only handheld anytime soon, all things considered.

 

[Ashes]

... but I just don't they would do a dd only handheld anytime soon, all things considered.

:lol

So true. GAF was too right about that. PSP Go was one hell of a 'failure'.

 

[Corto]

I mean, you still would have to do something that would prevent people making full games without sony's approval. I mean, it can't be at the api level, since any app could use an api. As for the psn thing, what about physical games? If there's drm thing going on psn, how would physical media do?

Unless you don't think they're will be any physical media. No backwards compatibility? Not only that, but I just don't they would do a dd only handheld anytime soon, all things considered.

I think this device will be DD only... Physical media wouldn't make sense in this type of a convergence always connected device.

 

[gofreak]

I mean, you still would have to do something that would prevent people making full games without sony's approval. I mean, it can't be at the api level, since any app could use an api. As for the psn thing, what about physical games? If there's drm thing going on psn, how would physical media do?

Maybe I'm wrong, but do licensee libraries get leaked as a matter of course outside of licensees?

But I think they would need some kind of sandbox. What kind, how it would work technically...I don't know enough about OSes to say.

The notion of the system rebooting in and out of games might not be so farfetched though...IIRC, my Wii has done that a number of times traversing from game to the OS

Of course, this kind of set up with sandboxes and all that would be subject to hacking. But it's not like their current approach - or any other I can think of - isn't :\

I think this device will be DD only... Physical media wouldn't make sense in this type of a convergence always connected device.

I think it will support physical media. There's no point in burning bridges to the younger user who doesn't have reliable net access, nor the ability to get a 3g contract or whatever. This is one thing that works against Apple to a degree, it reduces accessibility somewhat. And keeping BC and physical media would be a useful signal in carrying over 'the playstation crowd'; making sure gamers knew this was the next portable Playstation, for all intents and purposes. Access to physical publishing would also be another carrot for licensees.