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[Fat4all]

You don't need to literally use the word "inferior" when the context makes that abundantly clear.

The review is clearly disappointed that it doesn't elevate the genre to something more interesting.

I don't see why the score being a 3/5 is such a sticking point because of that.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

The review is clearly disappointed that it doesn't elevate the genre.

I don;t see why the score being a 3/5 is such a sticking point because of that.

It's not; all I said originally was it sounded more like a 2, which several people agreed with. But you seemed to have taken particular issue with it, making this seem like a bigger issue than it is.

My point was merely that the score and text didn't quite seem to align.

 

[Fat4all]

It's not; all I said originally was it sounded more like a 2, which several people agreed with. But you seemed to have taken particular issue with it, making this seem like a bigger issue than it is.

My point was merely that the score and text didn't quite seem to align.

And I feel differently.

I suppose we're at a crossroads.

 

[Kneefoil]

Yeah, and "literally" literally means anything but these days according to the dictionaries. I've never heard anyone use "Mediocre" as a synonym for "decent" in common usage, and especially not in a reviewing context.

Since you agree the review sounds more like a 2, you think "decent" sounds just as apt as "mediocre"?

I've heard people use the words interchangeably, although whether I've ever heard them being used that way in a review, I can't remember. Regardless, they mean more or less the same to me.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

And I feel differently.

I suppose we're at a crossroads.

That's fine. I'm just surprised you thought he'd be harsher on it, when I felt he actually was already quite harsh (but fairly so--it's a good review)

 

[Oidisco]

I'm pretty sure Damiani has said he doesn't like the Easy Allies score system as much as the old gametrailers one. Finds it hard to give an accurate score to match what he said in the review or something like that.

 

[StylesClash]

How the hell is this such a big thread already?

 

[kristianity77]

Am hoping the PS4 Pro in boost mode can iron out the supposed performance issues of this game. There isn't going to be any support for this on the Pro is there?

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Guys,

There are other reviewers in the industry who did not give each this game a 2.

Goodness. This is why #45 is in the WH...so much focus on negativity.

Need more people talking about what they like about the game without concessions. Even saying "nostalgia" seems to be backhanded.

I like that it does not take itself so seriously. Very Nintendo-like. Or Disney.

 

[Garlador]

Guys,

There are other reviewers in the industry who did not give each this game a 2.

Goodness. This is why #45 is in the WH...so much focus on negativity.

Need more people talking about what they like about the game without concessions. Even saying "nostalgia" seems to be backhanded.

I like that it does not take itself so seriously. Very Nintendo-like. Or Disney.

It definitely is easier to be negative than positive.

Like, hey, there's plenty of good to great reviews too! Those are as equally valid as the others.

 

[PhazonBlazer]

I wonder how bad performance on Switch will be, that's the version I wanted.

 

[Y2Kev]

I watched the EZA review and couldn't disagree with anything (haven't played it yet) but thought that maybe a lot of those complaints would apply to popular Rare games as well. I'm a little curious myself to see if certain items were not judged less harshly not because of "novelty" as the review says on more than one occasion (the grunts and squeaks). BK came out the same year as MGS...

 

[Necrovex]

I watched the EZA review and couldn't disagree with anything (haven't played it yet) but thought that maybe a lot of those complaints would apply to popular Rare games as well. I'm a little curious myself to see if certain items were not judged less harshly not because of "novelty" as the review says on more than one occasion (the grunts and squeaks). BK came out the same year as MGS...

When I listened to this week's WayPoint podcast, a woman played Yooka Laylee, and she loved BK and BT. She even replayed them recently to see if she still loved it, years after the fact. She did. She did not enjoy Yooka Laylee.

Also, do we know when Playtonic is sending the PC codes to the backers?

 

[SlasherJPC]

When I listened to this week's WayPoint podcast, a woman played Yooka Laylee, and she loved BK and BT. She even replayed them recently to see if she still loved it, years after the fact. She did. She did not enjoy Yooka Laylee.

Also, do we know when Playtonic is sending the PC codes to the backers?

See. I think some folks are under the assumption that everyone saying it's bad or just ok didn't like the genre. My review was a fair 7 out of 10. I grew up with these games.. bit too many things rub me the wrong way and I still feel B and K is above this in design, variety, etc. Now it's not some huge trash heap and there was times this game really hit it right on certain page missions, but other times I felt at odds with the game

 

[crowphoenix]

When I listened to this week's WayPoint podcast, a woman played Yooka Laylee, and she loved BK and BT. She even replayed them recently to see if she still loved it, years after the fact. She did. She did not enjoy Yooka Laylee.

Also, do we know when Playtonic is sending the PC codes to the backers?

Danielle Riendeau?

 

[Mrstriker09]

I hope the swim controls isnt bad

 

[jwhit28]

When I listened to this week's WayPoint podcast, a woman played Yooka Laylee, and she loved BK and BT. She even replayed them recently to see if she still loved it, years after the fact. She did. She did not enjoy Yooka Laylee.

Also, do we know when Playtonic is sending the PC codes to the backers?

I got my code on the 7th.

 

[Yukinari]

Wonder who thought having a quiz pop up every so often while exploring the hub world was a good idea.

The quiz at the end of kazooie and tooie were good because it was one time and the questions (aside from the stupid grunty ones) were fairly easy to answer. I actually really enjoyed the gameshow style quiz in Tooie.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

See. I think some folks are under the assumption that everyone saying it's bad or just ok didn't like the genre. My review was a fair 7 out of 10. I grew up with these games.. bit too many things rub me the wrong way and I still feel B and K is above this in design, variety, etc. Now it's not some huge trash heap and there was times this game really hit it right on certain page missions, but other times I felt at odds with the game

I noticed that Contica mentioned ReCore in another Yooka-related thread (I mentioned it as well), and I know Slasher and I were both fans of ReCore (especially compared to the average reviewer). Some of the same criticisms directed at Yooka were also directed at ReCore, so I was curious, Slasher, how you might compare ReCore and Yooka?

When I listened to this week's WayPoint podcast, a woman played Yooka Laylee, and she loved BK and BT. She even replayed them recently to see if she still loved it, years after the fact...

Yeah, Incandenza posted a link to Danielle Riendeau's written impressions in the other thread:

Danielle Riendeau of Waypoint has a good breakdown of how the game compares to N64-era platformers:

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/yooka-laylee-is-breaking-my-damned-heart

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/yooka-laylee-is-breaking-my-damned-heart
...I adore the Banjo games, and think they hold up beautifully (I played them both again when Rare Replay arrived, so, I'm not going off of nearly 20-year-old-memories with this)… Once upon a time I even argued that Banjo-Kazooie is a better game than Super Mario 64, on these expanded elements (Mario 64 is a more important game; Banjo just took the core design and ran with it to excellent results). Banjo-Tooie, the 2000 sequel, isn't as beloved, nor as tightly designed, but it leaned into those adventure game elements. There were puzzles that spanned across levels in fun and interesting ways, instilling a sense of continuity, life, and logic across the world…I loved figuring out how these lands interacted...

I went into Yooka-Laylee not with sky-high expectations, but with the hope that the game would offer what its predecessors did… What I got was… a very pretty-but-stiff and ultimately lackluster imitation... Its level design, at least a few hours into the game, feels hopelessly flat, expanding out into discrete "paths" through a given world that feel depressingly transparent. What you see is what you get, and what you get doesn't feel great… the protagonist... feels stiff with a weak jump, and the level design is uninspired…

I'd like to reiterate here, that I'm not basing my reaction off of nostalgia. The earlier titles had their flaws, but they were well-constructed. I would gladly give all of Yooka-Laylee's visual polish for level geometry that teased secrets, high peaks that demanded climbing, worlds that felt good to move through. 3D platformers aren't easy to get right, by any means. And there are good ideas here, certainly—there's an option to spend your collectibles on expanding an existing stage or opening up a new one, for example, that doesn't work out all that well in practice, but could've offered some decent variety. The game doesn't feel lazy, or hastily thrown together. It just fundamentally misses what really worked about its predecessors… I'm still playing Yooka-Laylee. Maybe it gets better later on... But my impressions from the first few hours of the game are not hopeful...

The 'Is it just the nostalgia?' question also came up in the other thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233556472&postcount=254

Also, for additional context, perhaps interesting to note what Riendeau says elsewhere: "...Psychonauts is my easy go-to answer when people ask me the impossible question of what my 'favorite game' is, so I'm pretty thrilled to take a look at it for my very first Guide to Games video..."

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Just finished listening to Gamexplain's review discussion since all 3 of them played the game. Ash liked it, but Derrick and Andre both reaaaally didn't, and one of them was a huge Banjo fan too

 

[Kinsei]

Just finished listening to Gamexplain's review discussion since all 3 of them played the game. Ash liked it, but Derrick and Andre both reaaaally didn't, and one of them was a huge Banjo fan too

That bit about the hot tub was interesting. I wonder if all they have to do is

Spoiler

use one of the fire berries to heat it up.

 

[Thud]

I never cared for the quiz part in BK.

Did people like it back then, I wonder?

The quiz thing was my least favorite thing in Paper Mario as well.

I liked it in Kazooie. Tooie was annoying as you're competing with hags.

The quiz is like a test.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

I never cared for the quiz part in BK.

Did people like it back then, I wonder?

The quiz thing was my least favorite thing in Paper Mario as well.

The quiz in Kazooie was brilliant. It wasn't JUST a quiz, it was in the form of board game so had some strategy, and the entire thing was packaged as a Game Show. It was such a fun change of pace that brought together everything you'd seen or done.

Tooie's wasn't nearly as fun, and YL's looks even worse

 

[Sponge]

Just finished listening to Gamexplain's review discussion since all 3 of them played the game. Ash liked it, but Derrick and Andre both reaaaally didn't, and one of them was a huge Banjo fan too

You know something's wrong when Gamexplain is struggling to say good things about the game. That's really bumming me out. I'm sure I'll still enjoy it, but I hate to hear Derrick and Andre didn't.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

How the hell is this such a big thread already?

Jim.

 

[JonnyKong]

Just finished listening to Gamexplain's review discussion since all 3 of them played the game. Ash liked it, but Derrick and Andre both reaaaally didn't, and one of them was a huge Banjo fan too

Had to stop watching cos it was showing off too much footage, but as already mentioned, it is sad to hear them not really enjoying it, although the footage I did see looked a lot of fun, and exactly what I expected when I backed this...

 

[KJRS_1993]

Based on the videos I've watched of Yooka Laylee (not played it), the environment looks so big and the characters look so small. It looks like it'd take ages to run anywhere in particular with very little interesting to see in between.

Kind of counter to Banjo Kazooie where there was always interesting landmarks to run past on the way from A to B. Think Mumbo Mountain with that bull and beehive on your way to the monkey that threw satsumas.

I think that's what's been putting me off for quite some time that I haven't been able to put my finger on.
Also, Yooka's voice is quite grating.

 

[jwhit28]

Based on the videos I've watched of Yooka Laylee (not played it), the environment looks so big and the characters look so small. It looks like it'd take ages to run anywhere in particular with very little interesting to see in between.

Kind of counter to Banjo Kazooie where there was always interesting landmarks to run past on the way from A to B. Think Mumbo Mountain with that bull and beehive on your way to the monkey that threw satsumas.

I think that's what's been putting me off for quite some time that I haven't been able to put my finger on.
Also, Yooka's voice is quite grating.

Gavin Price talked about this in a Game Informer interview. He says something like back then bigger meant better in a way that doesn't really apply now. With Yooka-Laylee they had a tough time finding the balance between the tight levels of Banjo-Kazooie and the sprawling levels of Banjo-Tooie. The level expansion mechanic was their answer to best please everyone.

 

[Yoshi]

Based on the videos I've watched of Yooka Laylee (not played it), the environment looks so big and the characters look so small. It looks like it'd take ages to run anywhere in particular with very little interesting to see in between.

Kind of counter to Banjo Kazooie where there was always interesting landmarks to run past on the way from A to B. Think Mumbo Mountain with that bull and beehive on your way to the monkey that threw satsumas.

I think that's what's been putting me off for quite some time that I haven't been able to put my finger on.
Also, Yooka's voice is quite grating.

I have now played for more than eight hours and I must say that I am surprised how well I find my ways in the levels. When entering a level for the first time, I always feel a bit overwhelmed, but if you now tell me to go to a specific point in any of the three levels I have played (1 & 3 not expanded, 2 expanded), I'll do it in no time. Up until now it is my second favourite "Rare" platformer. It is not as consistently awesome as Banjo-Kazooie but other than the first Rextro game (I have played three of five) I enjoyed every moment a lot. There definitely is not a lot of empty space, the three world I know are packed.

Also, I decided to expand the world I liked the least, the second one and everything that was added through the expansion was awesome. I was really surprised, because I felt the second world was quite a bit weaker than the first and especially the third (which imo is very close to Kazooie quality), but the expansion was creative, funny and challenging. Actually, one of the scenes the Gameexplain people complain about is part of that and I found that to be a bit challenging, but not really hard, as long as you remember that an analogstick need not be pressed to the max at all times.

 

[SlasherJPC]

I noticed that Contica mentioned ReCore in another Yooka-related thread (I mentioned it as well), and I know Slasher and I were both fans of ReCore (especially compared to the average reviewer). Some of the same criticisms directed at Yooka were also directed at ReCore, so I was curious, Slasher, how you might compare ReCore and Yooka?


Yeah, Incandenza posted a link to Danielle Riendeau's written impressions in the other thread:



The 'Is it just the nostalgia?' question also came up in the other thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233556472&postcount=254

Also, for additional context, perhaps interesting to note what Riendeau says elsewhere: "...Psychonauts is my easy go-to answer when people ask me the impossible question of what my 'favorite game' is, so I'm pretty thrilled to take a look at it for my very first Guide to Games video..."

I personally though Recore platforming was fantastic. Its has a better sense of exploration too. Yes. I feel I enjoyed Recore more then Yooka Laylee. Though... I have isues with both games. Wheres as YL I feel it issues are spread throughout. Recore is more towards the back end. They both feel like games pointed towards a bygone era though.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

I personally though Recore platforming was fantastic. Its has a better sense of exploration too. Yes. I feel I enjoyed Recore more then Yooka Laylee. Though... I have isues with both games. Wheres as YL I feel it issues are spread throughout. Recore is more towards the back end. They both feel like games pointed towards a bygone era though.

Thanks, and yeah, definitely agree that the platforming in ReCore was fantastic! And that’s why I try to make the case (where appropriate) that it’s not the genre itself that is outdated/obsolete, but rather certain very specific design choices that were made by the developers of these recent games: choices that were not inherent or necessary or essential parts the genre, and could therefore be made differently, in future games in the genre.

You’ve now mentioned that you’ve enjoyed both Banjo-Kazooie and ReCore more than Yooka, and (as noted above) Danielle Riendeau of Waypoint has similarly noted that she has (so far, still unfinished with her playthrough) enjoyed both Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie more than Yooka, and now listening to Ash and Andre from Gamexplain, I'm hearing them both say the very same thing:

Just finished listening to Gamexplain's review discussion since all 3 of them played the game. Ash liked it, but Derrick and Andre both reaaaally didn't, and one of them was a huge Banjo fan too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmtVXLjMZh4
Ash: [1:38] …I would say across the board, I think Yooka-Laylee is not as good as the Banjo games, it’s not as good as the games that inspired it… not even close, but I still liked it overall… [6:10] ...obviously, the problems that happened with Banjo were not nearly as bad as the problems in this game… [6:38] ...the difference here [in Yooka-Laylee], though, is that there are a lot more of them…

Andre: [7:58] ...Because, it’s missing the polish [from Banjo-Kazooie], and that polish is I feel like what made Banjo work so well, because I love those games, I love Banjo-Kazooie, less so Banjo-Tooie, though I appreciate it more in hindsight… Banjo-Kazooie, though, is a magical game to me… [8:54] The bigger issue for me is, I haven’t found the level design [in the first 3 worlds] to be that good, at all… I’m finding [the worlds] to be a bit too big, even pre-expansion… in Banjo-Kazooie, especially, I always knew kinda where I was relative to everything else. The worlds felt big, but you could also see the world, you could see where you’re going, whereas here [in Yooka-Laylee]…

Ash: [13:57] ...the messaging isn’t nearly as good as it is in Banjo-Kazooie, it’s harder sometimes to figure out what you’re supposed to do...

Andre: [17:30] …as someone who is a Banjo fan, I feel like [the problems in YL] are getting in the way of me enjoying it, because I’m making those comparisons, like, I would rather just go play Banjo-Kazooie… I’m only on World 3, [but]... If I were not playing this for purposes of discussing this [in this video], I probably would’ve dropped the game long ago, and I probably would’ve just gone back to Banjo-Kazooie on Xbox, because I really did enjoy those games… I really wanted to like this game, I do like the Banjo-Kazooie games…

Ash: [22:17] ...This whole thing to me, Yooka-Laylee feels like [it was made by] people who really loved Banjo-Kazooie but maybe were not quite as experienced game developers as Rare was back in the day… [28:50] ...I did like it, but full stop, it’s not as good as Banjo, not even close… [29:49] ...There are a lot of reviews out there talking about how the gameplay is antiquated, how it’s a dated game specifically because it’s a 3D platformer and those aren’t in vogue anymore, I could not disagree more with that.

Andre: Same here.

Still definitely looking forward to hearing a bit more from Yoshi though, as his opinion seems a bit different:

I have now played for more than eight hours and I must say... Up until now it is my second favourite "Rare" platformer. It is not as consistently awesome as Banjo-Kazooie... I felt the second world was quite a bit weaker than the first and especially the third (which imo is very close to Kazooie quality)...

 

[SlasherJPC]

Thanks, and yeah, definitely agree that the platforming in ReCore was fantastic! And that’s why I try to make the case (where appropriate) that it’s not the genre itself that is outdated/obsolete, but rather certain very specific design choices that were made by the developers of these recent games: choices that were not inherent or necessary or essential parts the genre, and could therefore be made differently, in future games in the genre.

You’ve now mentioned that you’ve enjoyed both Banjo-Kazooie and ReCore more than Yooka, and (as noted above) Danielle Riendeau of Waypoint has similarly noted that she has (so far, still unfinished with her playthrough) enjoyed both Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie more than Yooka, and now listening to Ash and Andre from Gamexplain, I'm hearing them both say the very same thing:




Still definitely looking forward to hearing a bit more from Yoshi though, as his opinion seems a bit different:

Yeah its not like I enjoy downplaying the game as it was fun at moments, but it never blew me away or gave me that magical feeling consitently. Its hard to explain but all the little things add up.

 

[shandy706]

I'm just saying that a 7/10 on Opencritic is decidedly average. Which it is.

It might have various confounders and it might not align with what you feel the game deserves, but that does not take away that the score itself is squarely in the territory of mediocrity.

One downfall of this is you can have 70 8-10/10s for a game and like 20 3-7/10s...and you suddenly have a game scoring "average" or "mediocre" despite the majority saying otherwise.


(not here to defend YL, just speaking games scores in general)

 

[Hale-XF11]

Bottom line: is it a fun game? That's all I need to know.

 

[NotLiquid]

Zero Punctuation reviewed it

Weird. I expected him to rip into it but it seems like he actually liked it up until the final boss. Inconsistency aside he calls it "diverse fun" at the end.