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[Krejlooc]

Sort of an old interview, given that it happened back in January, but given the newfound attention heaped on the series, here's another nugget on one of the most discussed aspects of the infamous Shenmue budget:

http://www.seganerds.com/2015/01/22/polygons-matt-leone-speaks-to-yu-suzuki-in-new-interview/

When asked if Shenmue's budget ever soured relationship between Yu Suzuki and Sega, Yu Suzuki had the following to say:

When Leone asked if Shenmue losing money hurt his chances to create another game of that scale, Suzuki “acknowledges that Sega took a loss on the game but says the company ‘easily recouped’ Shenmue‘s development budget with profits from Virtua Fighter 3 and 4.”

This is interesting, because most people take Shenmue and Yu Suzuki's projects in isolation. But it seems the man himself was paying very much attention to how his projects did, and, ultimately, his work for Sega was a very big profit earner.

What's most interesting, however, is this speaks about the sales earning potential of Virtua Fighter - if VF3 and VF4's profits could "easily recoup" the cost of Shenmue, which, as a series cost about $47 million to make - that would speak incredibly well of their earning potential. Naturally, they have longer legs than a typical console game given that they were arcade games released at a high point for arcades in japan, but surely if those games were profitable like he says, another Virtua Fighter should be coming one day... right?

 

[Tizoc]

Nobody plays Virtua Fighter doe.

On a serious note, that was then, this is now, a new VF game making a good buck back for SEGA is unknown at this point.
Tekken and the upcoming Pokken are more than likely to be bigger highlights in the arcade fighting scene in Japan.

Then again we are getting a new BB game, so wtf yeah maybe a new VF could do bring in a good profit for SEGA, but looking at the current market...

They should pull a DoA Last Round with VF and watch the moola roll in.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Nobody plays Virtua Fighter doe.

Sad, but true. Part of the reason is Sega's lack of pushing the game and staggered releases.

 

[Krejlooc]

Nobody plays Virtua Fighter doe.

That's because the last VF game was released 5 years ago and didn't get a home port until 2 years later that was a digital download only title. Hard to cultivate an audience like that.

At it's height, Virtua Fighter was one of the most popular fighting game franchises around.

 

[Man God]

3D fighters took a bath when it came to sales last gen. I think the slow start of the PS3 really didn't help them.

 

[Ray Down]

Sad, but true. Part of the reason is Sega's lack of pushing the game and staggered releases.

Yep, would kill for a new Virtua fighter now.

but...

 

[Krejlooc]

What SHOULD happen, if we lived in a just world, is that Namco and Tecmo would cross over with Sega, and we'd get Fighters Megamix 2 - Virtua Fighter vs Tekken vs Dead or Alive.

We don't live in a just world, unfortunately.

Also, outrun 3. And Daytona USA 3.

 

[Creaking]

Then how about making a Virtua Fighter 6 to recoup the losses on a Shenmue 1 & 2 HD collection?

 

[Man God]

VF in general has a very checkered history with home console releases. VF 4 was the first one to go off without a hitch it seems. Also despite how much better it seems over in Japan its not like their arcade market hasn't contracted as well in the past 15 years.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

What SHOULD happen, if we lived in a just world, is that Namco and Tecmo would cross over with Sega, and we'd get Fighters Megamix 2 - Virtua Fighter vs Tekken vs Dead or Alive.

We don't live in a just world, unfortunately.

Also, outrun 3. And Daytona USA 3.

Or at least release VF5FS on Steam/XBO/PS4. Something.

 

[Krejlooc]

Then how about making a Virtua Fighter 6 to recoup the losses on a Shenmue 1 & 2 HD collection?

If Yu Suzuki was calling the shots at Sega, I have no doubt we'd have VF6 by now.

Of course, if Yu Suzuki was calling the shots at sega, we would have gotten Shenmue 3 and 4 years ago.

 

[lucebuce12]

What SHOULD happen, if we lived in a just world, is that Namco and Tecmo would cross over with Sega, and we'd get Fighters Megamix 2 - Virtua Fighter vs Tekken vs Dead or Alive.

We don't live in a just world, unfortunately.

Also, outrun 3. And Daytona USA 3.

Also add Bloody Roar 5, a new Blood Reign and a new Impossible Creatures. (not owned by Sega but whatever)

 

[Tizoc]

Then how about making a Virtua Fighter 6 to recoup the losses on a Shenmue 1 & 2 HD collection?

Only if they do it to what I suggested in my post XP

 

[Skilletor]

Sad, but true. Part of the reason is Sega's lack of pushing the game and staggered releases.

If you're in America, maybe. My understanding was that they were huge earners in Japanese arcades and very popular over there.

 

[Krejlooc]

VF 4 was the first one to go off without a hitch it seems.

uh.....

EDIT: Hey look, Ryo is using the move his father taught him on Lan Di right there on the cover! lol

 

[ClutchAnderson]

Yep, would kill for a new Virtua fighter now.

but...

This post sums up how I feel completely :/

 

[Rymuth]

But then what recouped the development budget of Virtua Fighter 3 & 4? :/

 

[Slayven]

Am I crazy but that doesn't sound like a good thing, don't you want all your products to turn some kind profit?

 

[Sumio Mondo]

^It's basically putting to bed the idea that Suzuki had his relationship soured with Sega management because Shenmue didn't become the massive hit they wanted it to. Dreamcast being the faltering platform being the key here as to why. It was going to not sell well either way, since the install base just wasn't there. It wasn't Suzuki's fault there...

But then what recouped the development budget of Virtua Fighter 3 & 4? :/

...Virtua Fighter 3 & 4? Virtua Fighter used to be BIG for Sega back in the day, especially in arcades. Arcades used to generate a lot of money for them, especially games that AM2 worked on.

 

[Nyoro SF]

If you're in America, maybe. My understanding was that they were huge earners in Japanese arcades and very popular over there.

We could collectively write a 10-page thesis on how Sega has failed to engage their global market

 

[Krejlooc]

But then what recouped the development budget of Virtua Fighter 3 & 4? :/

assuming Shenmue's cost was "easily recouped" by the VF games, and they didn't have nearly the budget Shenmue had, one would assume they recouped their cost as well.

 

[Man God]

uh.....

EDIT: Hey look, Ryo is using the move his father taught him on Lan Di right there on the cover! lol

That did beat out the Genesis version, didn't it? 4 is the first one then where all of the home console releases were good.

 

[Krejlooc]

Am I crazy but that doesn't sound like a good thing, don't you want all your products to turn some kind profit?

Most of Shenmues budget went to the creation of tools and engines that Sega would have used in the future. Shenmue's budget was basically Sega building a foundation for future games that never got used.

In that instance, Shenmue was supposed to be a loss to make money in the future.

But people concentrate on Shenmue, claming it's the reason Sega went under. Like Shenmue killed Sega, essentially. That clearly isn't the case, when the guy behind Shenmue had other enormous profit earning projects.

 

[TheSpoiler]

If you're in America, maybe. My understanding was that they were huge earners in Japanese arcades and very popular over there.

I remember it getting a lot of attention at Gods Garden, I think? And arcade profits would make sense - it took forever for the consoles to get updates though.

But worldwide it just kinda petered off. I hope Sega starts promoting it overseas and giving it legs instead of just keeping it insular in Japan.

Much like Gundam VS. Bring Gundam VS over, Namco Bandai.

Come on.

 

[Skunkers]

That's because the last VF game was released 5 years ago and didn't get a home port until 2 years later that was a digital download only title. Hard to cultivate an audience like that.

At it's height, Virtua Fighter was one of the most popular fighting game franchises around.

True.

I don't have numbers, but IIRC, Virtua Fighter 4 did surprisingly well in the West (nowhere near Tekken/SC well, but it beat expectations) following the great word of mouth it got for the graphics and single-player modes/tutorials. But yeah, it's otherwise been a tough sell here, largely due to bad management (tough platform for 1 & 2, terrible outsourced port for 3, too little too late release for 5).

 

[G0523]

Then how about making a Virtua Fighter 6 to recoup the losses on a Shenmue 1 & 2 HD collection?

All of this NEEDS to happen!

I wonder how well Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution and all of the versions of Virtua Fighter 5 did.

 

[Rymuth]

assuming Shenmue's cost was "easily recouped" by the VF games, and they didn't have nearly the budget Shenmue had, one would assume they recouped their cost as well.

I was being semi-sarcastic. Still, its incredible to think their profits covered 4 games (S+S2 & VF3/4)

 

[Krejlooc]

That did beat out the Genesis version, didn't it? 4 is the first one then where all of the home console releases were good.

People love to talk shit about the Genesis port of Virtua Fighter 2... but it's actually pretty good if you play it, you know, like an actual Virtua Fighter game.

Same with Virtua Fighter Animation, actually. Although that's way, way less extensive.

 

[Crayon]

uh.....

EDIT: Hey look, Ryo is using the move his father taught him on Lan Di right there on the cover! lol

gat dam I love to just watch this game run when I have a saturn hooked up. Seeing it run for the first time was like witnessing a miracle. Plays like a dream and is perfectly timeless. Anyone thinking of getting a saturn should be thinking of this perfectly common game along with the unicorns.

 

[JCX]

Am I crazy but that doesn't sound like a good thing, don't you want all your products to turn some kind profit?

Ideally, but I think with Sega being a manufacturer at the time, they wanted to have a breadth of games. TLG probably won't be profitable for Sony, but it earns goodwill from fans.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Sega got some serious Nepotism right now. Although not necessarily a bad thing. Look at Nintendo.

 

[Man God]

People love to talk shit about the Genesis port of Virtua Fighter 2... but it's actually pretty good if you play it, you know, like an actual Virtua Fighter game.

It's better than VF 1 on Saturn. How was the PC version? I never got around to that. My favorite home version of VF 1 is on the 32x.

Also VF 1 and 2 must have been insanely expensive to develop. No doubt they made a ton of money but they were groundbreaking back then.

 

[Alienous]

Unless Virtua Fighter 3 & 4 couldn't have existed without Shenmue I'm not getting the point here.

 

[Krejlooc]

gat dam I love to just watch this game run when I have a saturn hooked up. Seeing it run for the first time was like witnessing a miracle. Plays like a dream and is perfectly timeless. Anyone thinking of getting a saturn should be thinking of this perfectly common game along with the unicorns.

Screenshots and youtube videos just don't do it justice. Seeing it on an actual CRT TV, at 60 fps, in high resolution is amazing. Soooo silky smooth.

 

[_Ryo_]

Shenmue is like 1/6th Virtua Fighter as it is... Which makes me question. Why didn't they just add Ryo to VF (yes, I know his akira BG) to build up a fan base for him? Then if they wanted they should just have made another Shenmue game but with the Virtua Fighter title.

Virtua Fighter: Shenmue.

Yes, I know. It's the worst idea and I am the worst.

 

[AwRy108]

What SHOULD happen, if we lived in a just world, is that Namco and Tecmo would cross over with Sega, and we'd get Fighters Megamix 2 - Virtua Fighter vs Tekken vs Dead or Alive.

We don't live in a just world, unfortunately.

Also, outrun 3. And Daytona USA 3.

Hell, I have my wallet ready and waiting for them to just bring PSO2 state-side; but today's SEGA cares little for what their fans want.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Shenmue is like 1/6th Virtua Fighter as it is... Which makes me question. Why didn't they just add Ryo to VF (yes, I know his akira BG) to build up a fan base for him? Then if they wanted they should just have made another Shenmue game but with the Virtua Fighter title.

Virtua Fighter: Shenmue.

Yes, I know. It's the worst idea and I am the worst.

Screw Ryo, I would have wanted to play as Lan Di! And Xiuying!

 

[Krejlooc]

It's better than VF 1 on Saturn. How was the PC version? I never got around to that. My favorite home version of VF 1 is on the 32x.

Also VF 1 and 2 must have been insanely expensive to develop. No doubt they made a ton of money but they were groundbreaking back then.

PC version of VF1? Well, there are two versions - the normal version everyone plays uses DirectDraw and its rough around the edges. The NV-1 version, however, which is extremely rare, looks like a Sega Saturn game running in high resolution. Better framerate, higher resolution. It's nice, but both of them are based off of Virtua Fighter Remix, which itself was a second port of VF1 (this time to the ST-V, which itself is just a Sega Saturn in an arcade board).

VF2 got a PC port as well, but it's identical to the saturn version and runs with DirectX 3. Funnily enough, you need to use 16-bit color to make it run, not 24 or 32.

I have the actual Model 1 board for VF1, but I can't play it. It's a medium resolution game, and all my monitors are just standard JAMMA. Medium Resolution is a problem with quite a few System32 and Model 1 and Model 2 games for people who are home collectors of arcade hardware.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Hell, I have my wallet ready and waiting for them to just bring PSO2 state-side; but today's SEGA cares little for what their fans want.

I don't think it's so much as Sega as more the corporate heads at Sammy.

I mean just recently the one of the Sammy corporate folks admitted that making "good games" should have been the focus rather then getting the game done regardless of it's quality.

The fact this had to be admitted in the first place is a serious problem that speaks volumes of an even bigger issue.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1076356

 

[jerry1594]

I'll buy a PS4 or Xbone for VF6. Honestly the only thing that would make me want a new console. I'm sure the countless VF players out there would too.

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't think it's so much as Sega as more the corporate heads at Sammy.

I mean just recently the one of the Sammy corporate folks admitted that making "good games" should have been the focus rather then getting the game done regardless of it's quality.

The fact this had to be admitted in the first place is a serious problem that speaks volumes of an even bigger issue.

The heads at Sega Sammy, just a few years after Sega was purchased from CSK, were asked in an interview where they saw Sega headed as a brand. They were specifically asked which other gaming company they hoped Sega would be most compared to going forward.

Their answer was "THQ."

EDIT: Ah, here's the interview:

Sega: We don't want to be Activision, we want to be THQ

It was 2008, way later than I remember.

 

[Tizoc]

The heads at Sega Sammy, just a few years after Sega was purchased from CSK, were asked in an interview where they saw Sega headed as a brand. They were specifically asked which other gaming company they hoped Sega would be most compared to going forward.

Their answer was "THQ."

You need to be more specific here; by a few years ago do you mean before THQ went kaput or after THQ went kaput?

 

[Krejlooc]

You need to be more specific here; by a few years ago do you mean before THQ went kaput or after THQ went kaput?

2008, before they went Kaput. Or rather, right when they started to go kaput.

We're actually really happy where we are. We can be small and agile and yet extremely profitable and successful. It really feels like this year we're competing with the next tier up, and THQ is a good company for us to model ourselves on and go after in terms of market share.

 

[Spaghetti]

^It's basically putting to bed the idea that Suzuki had his relationship soured with Sega management because Shenmue didn't become the massive hit they wanted it to. Dreamcast being the faltering platform being the key here as to why. It was going to not sell well either way, since the install base just wasn't there. It wasn't Suzuki's fault there...

yeah. the idea was never to make a profit on the first game anyway. the investment in shenmue was as a series rather than on game by game basis. develop tools, systems, and the engine up front and use that as the skeleton for multiple releases that builds upon it each time.

it's how yazuka is made now. hell, even something like COD or assassin's creed also works on that same idea in certain places.

it's sad that sega mothballed suzuki to use him as a scapegoat. i've actually heard people say in all seriousness that shenmue sunk sega. that's bullshit. three successive hardware flops is what killed sega, not a $43 million dollar investment that was recouped by the time shenmue II came out.

 

[Krejlooc]

yeah. the idea was never to make a profit on the first game anyway. the investment in shenmue was as a series rather than on game by game basis. develop tools, systems, and the engine up front and use that as the skeleton for multiple releases that builds upon it each time.

it's how yazuka is made now. hell, even something like COD or assassin's creed also works on that same idea in certain places.

it's sad that sega mothballed suzuki to use him as a scapegoat. i've actually heard people say in all seriousness that shenmue sunk sega. that's bullshit. three successive hardware flops is what killed sega, not a $43 million dollar investment that was recouped by the time shenmue II came out.

The 32X was a flop, but it wasn't a costly flop. It came at Sega's most successful period in company history when they were flush with money.

No, what really basically killed Sega's home division was the Sega Saturn, even though the Dreamcast lost them more money. The Saturn became an albatross for Sega, such that they had to release the Dreamcast in the first place. Had the Saturn had better uptick, they wouldn't have had to take the massive hit they took on the dreamcast in the first place, and they wouldn't have lost all their wealth seemingly overnight.

And I say that as someone who deeply loves the Saturn.

 

[Aki-at]

I really don't see Virtua Fighter 6 not happening, I just don't know what format its coming out in. F2P? Arcade first than console? It's really hard to predict right now.

Hell, I have my wallet ready and waiting for them to just bring PSO2 state-side; but today's SEGA cares little for what their fans want.

It's a bit of a clusterfuck especially as SEGA America/Europe didn't feel the need for certain brands and SEGA Japan doesn't really impose them to localised all their projects.

The heads at Sega Sammy, just a few years after Sega was purchased from CSK, were asked in an interview where they saw Sega headed as a brand. They were specifically asked which other gaming company they hoped Sega would be most compared to going forward.

Their answer was "THQ."

That wasn't anyone at SEGA Sammy at all, infact that quote came way after they were merged with Sammy. It was by SEGA America President Simon Jeffrey, who wasn't all too liked by the board either.

You need to be more specific here; by a few years ago do you mean before THQ went kaput or after THQ went kaput?

To add to that, he was fired for his terrible and disastrous reign at the American branch.

 

[AmyS]

Bring it home...

Spoiler

VF3 Team Battle on Dreamcast done by Genki does not count!

 

[Krejlooc]

Bring it home...

Spoiler

VF3 Team Battle on Dreamcast done by Genki does not count!

They brought the most important parts of VF3 home already:

I would much rather have FMM2... or maybe for footage of the supposedly "almost complete" port of VF3 to the Saturn.

 

[balohna]

VF4 was pretty big at its height, at least in gaming circles. It was often regarded as THE 3D fighter.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Thanks for allowing Shenmue to tarnish Virtua Fighter Yu. Good work.