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[shinra-bansho]

The idea of "recovery" is always nebulous, as no one really ever puts forward what they'd define as recovery.

But again, don't take this to mean that everything at Nintendo is peachy and they should just keep on the same path they're on with the Wii U. Something has to change. I think it will actually be rather exciting trying to figure out what that change should be over the next few years. If you find such talk depressing, that's fine, you don't need to join sales or market analysis threads.

Noted it in a different thread, but it may have been more prudent for them to instead forgo the "core" market entirely, and instead aimed squarely at other markets.

A home console aimed squarely at the child/toy market, for instance. No unnecessary "innovations." Their properties and brand that already positions them well with such a market. And above all, a low cost of entry.

 

[catstronaut]

I just dont understand this logic at all other than killing brain cells

It's not complicated. The 3DS was too expensive, faced an image problem, and lacked games. So Nintendo dropped the price and released some great games for the system, which cleared up the image problem on its own. Now the 3DS is selling well.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

The idea of "recovery" is always nebulous, as no one really ever puts forward what they'd define as recovery.
Noted it in a different thread, but it may have been more prudent for them to instead forgo the "core" market entirely, and instead aimed squarely at other markets.

A home console aimed squarely at the child/toy market, for instance. No unnecessary "innovations." Their properties and brand that already positions them well with such a market. And above all, a low cost of entry.

This is probably the best path for them to take - although I would say the family market rather than the child market (local multiplayer experiences, easy to play but depth etc)

Very few people on GAF are wanting to admit this though

 

[prag16]

Well, Vita has been on the market for significantly longer, so almost by default Wii U deserves some modicum of benefit of the doubt beyond what that platform gets. The first-party titles coming this holiday and early next year will result in some sort of recovery, however limited.

That said, the fundamental problems the system faces are clear and significant enough that I don't find Opiate's posts at all premature.

If the Wii U gets trounced by all four competing systems this holiday I'll be at the front of the line writing the epitaph. I'm not blind or unreasonable. On the other hand if Wii U outsells all competition things get a lot more interesting provided they don't fall off a cliff again in January.

Though with no Kart until 2014 and xbone's 180, this scenario isn't as likely as I thought before E3. At that point I saw a decent chance of that considering possible PS4 supply constraints. Nobody knows for sure how much Nintendo's rest-of-2013 lineup will move the needle. Probably not enough, (and either way opiate is right, Nintendo will need to make big changes regardless) but I'm willing to wait that long to find out. Opiate isn't. Agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Opiate]

The idea of "recovery" is always nebulous, as no one really ever puts forward what they'd define as recovery.
Noted it in a different thread, but it may have been more prudent for them to instead forgo the "core" market entirely, and instead aimed squarely at other markets.

A home console aimed squarely at the child/toy market, for instance. No unnecessary "innovations." Their properties and brand that already positions them well with such a market. And above all, a low cost of entry.

I largely agree, although they've had a ton of success with older people, as well, and fairly recently (Brain Age, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, etc.) If I recall correctly, the DS (and now the 3DS) actually have older average users than the PSP/PSV have. They just achieved those averages very differently -- Nintendo had a huge section of 8 year olds but also 50 year olds, while Sony's demographic was comprised much more exclusively of young adults. In the studies I've seen, casual gamers are actually more affluent educated than "hardcore" gamers.

I don't think Nintendo has to be "kiddy baby times." They can be -- maybe that's a good step forward -- but we have recent evidence of Nintendo doing well with mature gamers that's worth exploring.

 

[Nirolak]

I largely agree, although they've had a ton of success with older people, as well (Brain Age, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, etc.) If I recall correctly, the DS (and now the 3DS) actually have older average users than the PSP/PSV have. They just achieved those averages very differently; Nintendo had a huge section of 8 year olds but also 50 year olds, while Sony had a huge bulge of 16-35 year olds.

I don't think Nintendo has to be "kiddy baby times." They can be -- maybe that's a good step forward -- but we have recent evidence of Nintendo doing well with mature gamers that's worth exploring.

I do think a lower cost system that doesn't target the "core gamer" market does work well for both audiences though since they're both more likely to be price sensitive.

It's not like such a system would really disservice Nintendo fans either given most seemed happy with the DS, 3DS, and Wii in the end.

It also makes the system an easier sell as a box you buy in addition to your core gamer box for audiences who are definitely buying a PS4 or Xbox One as well.

 

[thefit]

Ding ding ding. ZombiU was developed as a throwback to the old RE/Silent Hill/Fatal Frame games, none of which sold spectacularly well except, briefly, for RE. Looking back, FF games are all commercial failures, ditto with modern Silent Hill, and REmake barely topped a million sales.

Fact of the matter is that genuine survival horror is very, very niche, and pouring a AAA budget into a survival horror game is a mistake. Why Ubisoft expected ZombiU to outsell the games it wishes to emulate, especially being a launch title, is beyond me. Even if the Wii U weren't selling fucking horribly, or even if it were multi-plat, ZombiU would be doomed to bomb.

Your so wrong Resident Evil invented survival horror over night but it wasn't just that that made it a huge success it was the 3d mechanics (over static backgrounds at first) no game had done the same so successfully before I know because after I finished RE on my psx it left me with some serious joensing for something else like lit and the closest thing to that was Fade to Black wich was released the same year. To call it a niche genre is just so dismissive just because Zombie U didn't sell well. If the genre was so niche why has every one else had it so bad to emulated RE since.

 

[Father_Brain]

The idea of "recovery" is always nebulous, as no one really ever puts forward what they'd define as recovery.

On a trajectory to sell 16-20 million worldwide by the end of 2017, instead of below 10 million. Entirely possible that the former is too optimistic, though.

 

[Hooflung128]

Nintendo shot themselves in the foot with the online thing. They made it way too cumbersome on Wii and DS. Well, the 3DS is still bad, and I haven't played a WiiU.

I love online play, and I only ever went online with the Wii and DS a handful of times.

Except for the lack of people there is absolutely nothing wrong with wii u online. It works flawless and even when playing me 3 with British gamers the voice chat and lag is next to nothing. Wii u just hasn't sold enough game units. Black ops 2 zombie mode was fine too... Except for the lack of people. To me it seems that there are too many kids with wii u if mii verse is anything to go by. Kids that don't play online competitive or coop.

Honestly though I cannot see how ea, ubi or activision haven't done massive price drops to increase units sold to bring those multiplayer numbers up. Sitting on store shelves ain't gonna help and eventually they'll be bargain bin units anyways.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Oh my, even the mods have the fever. As bad as the Wii U is currently performing I'm not willing to lump it in the abject failure category just yet, or the Vita for that matter. The popular narrative here smacks of the same old Nintendo is doomed motif, regardless of how much you compare and contrast with something like the Dreamcast (context!) or pretty it up it with a superficially dispassionate analysis.

It's not that mysterious what the Wii U needs to do to turn around. Price cut (make sure it's at least $100 less than PS4), software (already en route this holiday, we'll see if they can keep it coming), and a smart advertising blitz (not especially confident about this one, but hey, anything is better than nothing). I don't think there's going to be any single revelation for the system in the foreseeable future, but the initially pushed back "launch" software hurt the system considerably. Now it has the chance to help it considerably if Nintendo can release it at a steady clip in concert with a more attractive price and a more conspicuous approach to marketing.

Finally, Nintendo needs to ween themselves off simply repeating a successful formula ad nauseum. It's possible to be true to a series without adhering to the established aesthetic like a stenographer. Mario doesn't have to look like the same CGI rendition used since SM64 in every game, you know? They need to also jettison the idea that the same old IPs should always be used to showcase new gameplay mechanics or concepts just because they happen to fall within an established genre. People are desperate for some new blood, so why make another NSMB when you could give young up-and-coming talent a taste of the pride that comes with inventing a completely new platformer? While I have deep respect for the likes of Miyamoto and Tezuka it would seem the old guard at Nintendo fosters a culture in which their ideas are always at the forefront. Imo there should be a better balance of traditional stuff like NSMB and completely new IPs. It doesn't have to be something all esoteric and different to justify it either. Sometimes your next big action/adventure doesn't have to be Zelda or Metroid. Not every platformer needs to be a bubbly mascot like Mario or Kirby.

That said, I don't think the long term picture is necessarily as dire as it's been repeatedly painted in this and other threads. People just like to take a limited set of data and extrapolate the entire future of a console, usually cherry picking whatever nuggets support their existing bias. And while the Wii U has been embarrassingly slow out of the gate, I still find a lot of the maudlin conjecture over the top. If anyone wants to quote me as some nutty optimist down the line, feel free to cite my prediction that the Wii U will attain at least N64 range numbers, not the sub-Gamecube sales that have been bandied about. Coming off the Wii that's still a pretty precipitous drop, but I don't think Nintendo is going to sit out this generation without putting up a fight, nor do a believe any system's future is set in stone in the first year.

 

[FauX]

I'll hope Nintendo get afloat this Gen, they've been abandoned by everyone.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I largely agree, although they've had a ton of success with older people, as well, and fairly recently (Brain Age, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, etc.) If I recall correctly, the DS (and now the 3DS) actually have older average users than the PSP/PSV have. They just achieved those averages very differently -- Nintendo had a huge section of 8 year olds but also 50 year olds, while Sony's demographic was comprised much more exclusively of young adults. In the studies I've seen, casual gamers are actually more affluent educated than "hardcore" gamers.

I don't think Nintendo has to be "kiddy baby times." They can be -- maybe that's a good step forward -- but we have recent evidence of Nintendo doing well with mature gamers that's worth exploring.

Yeh, that was just one possibility. There's certainly a market for a system for older adults.

The concept of a console aimed exclusively at the 15 and under market though was interesting, in that for instance, it could be taken to an extreme of only allowing titles rated E or T. Parents could buy such systems for their children, in secure knowledge that the software on it was always suitable for their age group.

Just one possibility. Although, as Nirolak noted above, a low cost system can be easily made to concurrently appeal to price-sensitive parents looking for something for their child and older adults looking for a suitable entertainment box in their living room for social occasions and family bonding.

 

[rschauby]

You can totally tell Zombi U bombed. Just look at the eShop... $60. It's been on sale once for about $45 on the eShop.

If you want to know how to go out of business in the digital age, these developers have written the while damn book.

 

[Hooflung128]

Your so wrong Resident Evil invented survival horror over night but it wasn't just that that made it a huge success it was the 3d mechanics (over static backgrounds at first) no game had done the same so successfully before I know because after I finished RE on my psx it left me with some serious joensing for something else like lit and the closest thing to that was Fade to Black wich was released the same year. To call it a niche genre is just so dismissive just because Zombie U didn't sell well. If the genre was so niche why has every one else had it so bad to emulated RE since.

Who has emulated resident evil? I want to know because I want to play those games. Or do you mean resident evil 4... The most unresident evil pre-hd? The game that inspired gears of a dozen clones war.

There were survivor horror games prior to resident evil too FYI. Resident evil didn't invent shit.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Price cut (make sure it's at least $100 less than PS4)

The entry price is already $100 less than the PS4.

It doesn't need to be price competitive with the PS4 though (although the low cost does make the Wii U look less value for money), it needs to be price competitive with the PS3 and 360, since it's the low end market that it's competing for now.

 

[iidesuyo]

If Nintendo fans want me to say something nice, I can point out that Nintendo's bottom line will almost assuredly never look close to as bad as Sony's did in the early years of the PS3.

Take solace in the fact that Nintendo's financials are just "poor" rather than "epically disastrous". They'll be fine, they won't have to cut literally tens of thousands of jobs like Sony did.

Why should I care about something like that? As a gamer I want great games. Like in the old days. I don't care if they keep jobs or not.

If Nintendo spends all its billions to send all their staff to holiday for five years, I would give a shit. No games would be released and to me as a gamer Nintendo would be dead, but all the staff would keep their job, whoohoo.

 

[KU_]

Shame. Loved ZombiU, and was looking forward to a sequel.

 

[Opiate]

Why should I care about something like that? As a gamer I want great games. Like in the old days. I don't care if they keep jobs or not.

Lots of people seem pleased with their Wii Us, as evidenced above. If you don't agree, that's fine, but this is a market analysis thread, and as such your personal feeling that Nintendo is not delivering is not really of interest.

If you don't personally care about market analysis, that's fine. I'd advise leaving this thread, because that's what this thread is about. Just know that financial results have real consequences and Sony's layoffs have real, tangible effects on their output (to make sure you're aware, most but not all of those layoffs came outside the gaming sector).

 

[FLEABttn]

Saying there's a different context that the Dreamcast failed under doesn't really excuse Nintendo. There were at least better reasons for Sega to do so poorly and Nintendo isn't afforded the excuse of three failed consoles in a row to explain their shortcomings.

 

[LTWood12]

Well I just bought one. Wouldn't have considered it before e3. Since then I'd bought epic yarn and dkcr to play with my wife on Wii. We're having such a good time with them.

Seeing as how we can continue to play those games, and then their sequels it was worth it to me.

That said, I'm part of the problem, because I'll still buy all multiplats on PS3/4.

 

[catstronaut]

Saying there's a different context that the Dreamcast failed under doesn't really excuse Nintendo. There were at least better reasons for Sega to do so poorly and Nintendo isn't afforded the excuse of three failed consoles in a row to explain their shortcomings.

In what world is the Wii a failed console?

 

[LTWood12]

In what world is the Wii a failed console?

No kidding, though I think he/she probably meant specifically with regard to 3rd party support.

 

[Hooflung128]

No kidding, though I think he/she probably meant specifically with regard to 3rd party support.

I counted 42 wii games in my library which is still growing. I have about 10 actual nintendo titles the rest are third party and every single one worth owning. The wii is a very misunderstood console.

 

[kswiston]

Are you suggesting that a home console literally could not possibly be successful without the backing of Activision/Ubisoft/etc.? Because I don't agree. Saying, "well, the 3DS is a bit different" isn't very helpful input unless you literally mean to suggest that Nintendo has no possible way to be successful in the home console realm.

This bit wasn't part of your post when I started replying to it above. I would never say that there is no possible way for Nintendo to be successful with a home console in the future. The Wii proved that there is no real way to know what will happen going forward. However, I think that the 3 examples you listed of platforms succeeding in spite of weak support from the major third parties are not really analogous to the position Nintendo is currently in with the Wii U.

The PC was in a transitional state around the time of the 360 launch in North America. Broadband internet brought on a spike in software piracy, which in turn brought on some of the worst DRM in software history. Many developers were still targeting the latest and greatest in computer hardware even though average home computer users were transitioning to less powerful laptops around that time. Digital distribution wasn't anywhere near maturity. Despite all of this, PC still had pretty good support from publishers. Not the level of support it had in 1999, but much better than the Wii U, or even the Wii post 2009.

The 3DS had a lot of support in Japan right from launch. Western support has been minimal, but Western support has never been all that great for handhelds. Potential buyers for the 3DS are not really missing out on the types of software they would have had in previous generations. The only thing that was holding it back was the price and increased competition from mobile platforms (which Nintendo can't really avoid).

It's hard to separate the rise of iOS gaming from the success of the iPhone as a smartphone. I'm not really sure what lesson Nintendo could take from the success of iOS other than the fact that people like cheap software. While some people buy phones for games, there are plenty of reasons to own a smartphone besides gaming. Regardless of your reason for jumping in, once you have a smartphone, it becomes a natural gaming device since it's almost always on your person. It's easier to get people to try a game if they already own the device (a fact that PC also benefits from).

Perhaps Nintendo should instead look at what Sony did with the original Playstation and what Microsoft did with the Xbox 360. Both companies spent a lot of energy building third party relationships and securing exclusives. Both companies have continued to do this with subsequent systems. While you see some cooperation between Nintendo and third parties, it has never been to that same level. I'm not saying that Nintendo needs to spend billions of dollars brute forcing a console to success, but there's a large middle ground between "We'll design great first party games and the third parties will follow!" and Microsoft-level moneyhats.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I believe the Wii U is impossible to turn around. It will wind up selling at best, slightly above the gamecube. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't know, but the release date of Mario Kart 8 being out in 2014 nearly on the 3rd anniversary of the Wii U's unveiling (its fourth E3 appearance mind you) is an indication that Nintendo does not have the resources to create enough compelling content to entice gamers.

Third parties have abandoned the system nearly completely.

Any sales of the Wii U will rely wholly on Nintendo's output of games and their appeal to gamers. Being so slow to create content is the nail in the coffin.

I simply cannot believe what an effective job Nintendo did at killing all hype early on with their system. From the early reveal with no games, to a lackluster launch line-up and seeing key titles being delayed. Its no wonder practically no one cares about the Wii U.

 

[Poimandres]

In what world is the Wii a failed console?

He didn't say anything about the Wii being a failed console. He said that Sega had 3 failed consoles in a row leading up to the Dreamcast, but Nintendo doesn't have that "excuse".

 

[x3sphere]

The entry price is already $100 less than the PS4.

It doesn't need to be price competitive with the PS4 though (although the low cost does make the Wii U look less value for money), it needs to be price competitive with the PS3 and 360, since it's the low end market that it's competing for now.

Yeah, and the PS4 comes with a 500GB HDD. So does PS3. I'm mostly all digital now so the flash storage on either Wii U SKU isn't going to be enough in the long term, I'd have to buy an external which will set me back around $50-60. So really, the price difference to me is only $40-50 bucks. One of the reasons why I haven't bought a Wii U, not to mention Nintendo's backwards stance that has content tied to the system and not account. It'd have to be $200 for me to consider it.

 

[catstronaut]

He didn't say anything about the Wii being a failed console. He said that Sega had 3 failed consoles in a row leading up to the Dreamcast, but Nintendo doesn't have that "excuse".

Ah, I see that now. The English language is a fickle beast.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I'll buy the game when I buy a Wii U... which will be when X comes out.

 

[ALM5252]

I did not like ZombiU, but mainly because it just isn't my style of gaming. (played the DEMO)
The game had great idea's for the Wii U Gamepad, but like I said, just wasn't my cup of tea.

I honestly would have preferred Killer Freaks because it was supposed to play similar to the Left 4 Dead series (which I love), but it does stink that for the people who really loved the game, they will not get a sequel, at least not anytime soon, and maybe not for Wii U.

 

[matm666]

So ZombieU is now a great game? i remember talking shit when first came out. Any way it got lots of mixed reviews, Im not getting the game untils is 30dls or 20dls

 

[Gormless Noodle]

In what world is the Wii a failed console?

Actually, I'd argue that it is something of a failure in this one. Yes it's true it sold near 100 million units and that certain titles did amazingly well on it. But it's also true that we've never before seen such a turn around in sales and image. Microsoft and Sony both managed to catch up very well and in some territories are actually overtaking Nintendo. This is unprecedented. Usually a market leader stays that for the generation by a significant margin.

Then the image of the Wii. In hardcore circles it turned into a laughing stock, in casual circles no one cares any longer. So instead of expanding their markets they ended up shrinking it significantly, which is also a reason why the Wii U is in the position it is. And it's also a reason why I think things will not turn around for them. They're still hopelessly disconnected from their (ex-)fanbase and casuals are not coming back since they got a nice Ipad/pod/phone now.

tl;dr
The Wii had massive success on a short term basis, but long term it may prove to have actually wrecked Nintendo's home console business.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

The entry price is already $100 less than the PS4.

It doesn't need to be price competitive with the PS4 though (although the low cost does make the Wii U look less value for money), it needs to be price competitive with the PS3 and 360, since it's the low end market that it's competing for now.

I should have specified the Deluxe (aka not as gimped version). Nintendo might as well cut the Basic completely and just introduce a white Deluxe sku. Where I live Deluxe units would sell through rather quickly while Basics languished on the shelf.

Personally, I think Nintendo should shoot for a Deluxe sku a tick below $300 where they can hold firm for a while. $250 would be great, but I doubt Nintendo is willing to swallow the loss on hardware, but something around $269-$279 might be enough of margin to make it more attractive during and after the holiday once more software is available.

I'd have to disagree about it competing only with the 360/PS3 though, unless the adoption rate for all next gen consoles is abysmal. The best dev teams will be working on next gen material almost immediately. The PS3 and 360 will probably see a smattering of serviceable ports in the near future, but while those systems wind down the Wii U is going to be getting new Nintendo caliber software. I don't see Wii U competing any more with those systems after a year or year and a half any more than Wii competed with PS2, which is to say negligibly and only for the budget focused gamer.

 

[Notor!ousG]

tl;dr
The Wii had massive success on a short term basis, but long term it may prove to have actually wrecked Nintendo's home console business.

Well said!

Nintendo really should stop begin self-centered, open their eyes and realise that the industry has changed.

They got very lucky with the Wii, something even they were not anticipating.

Calling the WiiU a WiiU was their first big mistake. I just don't have the feeling that I'm playing on the successor of the Wii, it feels like a total new console to me.

Oh well... maybe it's a good thing for Nintendo. Gives them something to think about.
I'm hoping that their next console just will be a basic console. Traditional controller, decent online (but without heavy features like MS or Sony) and just give us games.

 

[ShadyJ]

Price cut doesn't need to happen, it needs Nintendo's full support and good handful of games.

If there are games, people will buy it.

Simple.

 

[MercGH]

I largely agree, although they've had a ton of success with older people, as well, and fairly recently (Brain Age, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, etc.) If I recall correctly, the DS (and now the 3DS) actually have older average users than the PSP/PSV have. They just achieved those averages very differently -- Nintendo had a huge section of 8 year olds but also 50 year olds, while Sony's demographic was comprised much more exclusively of young adults. In the studies I've seen, casual gamers are actually more affluent educated than "hardcore" gamers.

I don't think Nintendo has to be "kiddy baby times." They can be -- maybe that's a good step forward -- but we have recent evidence of Nintendo doing well with mature gamers that's worth exploring.

Your missing one thing: games per console ratio. If that is even true, which I don't think of Nintendo having 50+ demographic is the reality is they don't spend money on games. They rarely buy games and certainly not core games like ZombiU. Also the Xbox One with Kinect being the fastest selling accessory with games like Nike Fitness, Kinect Sports, are also putting a major dent into Nintendo's family/older demographic

 

[Burai]

Oh my, even the mods have the fever. As bad as the Wii U is currently performing I'm not willing to lump it in the abject failure category just yet, or the Vita for that matter. The popular narrative here smacks of the same old Nintendo is doomed motif, regardless of how much you compare and contrast with something like the Dreamcast (context!) or pretty it up it with a superficially dispassionate analysis.

It's not that mysterious what the Wii U needs to do to turn around. Price cut (make sure it's at least $100 less than PS4), software (already en route this holiday, we'll see if they can keep it coming), and a smart advertising blitz (not especially confident about this one, but hey, anything is better than nothing). I don't think there's going to be any single revelation for the system in the foreseeable future, but the initially pushed back "launch" software hurt the system considerably. Now it has the chance to help it considerably if Nintendo can release it at a steady clip in concert with a more attractive price and a more conspicuous approach to marketing.

Finally, Nintendo needs to ween themselves off simply repeating a successful formula ad nauseum. It's possible to be true to a series without adhering to the established aesthetic like a stenographer. Mario doesn't have to look like the same CGI rendition used since SM64 in every game, you know? They need to also jettison the idea that the same old IPs should always be used to showcase new gameplay mechanics or concepts just because they happen to fall within an established genre. People are desperate for some new blood, so why make another NSMB when you could give young up-and-coming talent a taste of the pride that comes with inventing a completely new platformer? While I have deep respect for the likes of Miyamoto and Tezuka it would seem the old guard at Nintendo fosters a culture in which their ideas are always at the forefront. Imo there should be a better balance of traditional stuff like NSMB and completely new IPs. It doesn't have to be something all esoteric and different to justify it either. Sometimes your next big action/adventure doesn't have to be Zelda or Metroid. Not every platformer needs to be a bubbly mascot like Mario or Kirby.

That said, I don't think the long term picture is necessarily as dire as it's been repeatedly painted in this and other threads. People just like to take a limited set of data and extrapolate the entire future of a console, usually cherry picking whatever nuggets support their existing bias. And while the Wii U has been embarrassingly slow out of the gate, I still find a lot of the maudlin conjecture over the top. If anyone wants to quote me as some nutty optimist down the line, feel free to cite my prediction that the Wii U will attain at least N64 range numbers, not the sub-Gamecube sales that have been bandied about. Coming off the Wii that's still a pretty precipitous drop, but I don't think Nintendo is going to sit out this generation without putting up a fight, nor do a believe any system's future is set in stone in the first year.

Think the writing is well and truly on the wall. The problem with having no third party support is that you've got massive gaps in the library and nobody buys a full-priced console if it doesn't tick most if not all the boxes. Wii Sports may have sold the Wii singlehandedly, but I don't know anyone who bought one who didn't pick up a third party game like FIFA or Need for Speed to supplement it. Madden may not sell consoles, but no Madden could certainly cost a sale.

You would need a very narrow taste in games if Wii U can give you everything you want from video games without making you want to look elsewhere. It's like paying for a premium cable package but only getting Cartoon Network whilst other cable providers will give you every channel for the same money.

No matter how much software Nintendo releases, they still haven't got anything to fill those genre gaps and, most damningly, there's no appealing gimmick and supporting software to help them sidestep the problem as they had with the Wii. The price is far too high for it to be able to fill the "secondary console" role that the Wii and especially the GameCube had. I just don't see where this miraculous turnaround is going to come from.

 

[Sean*O]

Big surprise, you made an adult game on a system that's most appealing to a family with young children and it didn't sell. The only reason I would get a U is for my kids, and the last game I would be buying for them is a bloody survival horror.

And EA will be lucky to have a future with their whole "online only" business model they seem hell bent on pushing. I will never buy a game from them that's paywalled or built around not giving me the whole game unless I pay extra for it.

 

[x3sphere]

Price cut doesn't need to happen, it needs Nintendo's full support and good handful of games.

If there are games, people will buy it.

Simple.

The big difference is that the Wii and GameCube were much cheaper - spending $300-350 just for Nintendo games isn't as easy to swallow for most people. And the Basic model is kind of worthless (barely any storage) so I consider $350 to be the real entry point.

 

[Dreaver]

The Wii U is such a failure. The fact that even ZombiU was a failure and ruins the chances for future third party games is REALLY troublesom for Nintendo. I really can't see the situation getting much better. I think holiday will be the final test to see if there is at least a little bit of life left in the console, but I doubt it

It is a vicious circle:
> Gamers won't buy a Wii U because there aren't any games for it
> Devs won't make games because there there isn't any install base

 

[onipex]

Think the writing is well and truly on the wall. The problem with having no third party support is that you've got massive gaps in the library and nobody buys a full-priced console if it doesn't tick most if not all the boxes. Wii Sports may have sold the Wii singlehandedly, but I don't know anyone who bought one who didn't pick up a third party game like FIFA or Need for Speed to supplement it. Madden may not sell consoles, but no Madden could certainly cost a sale.

The Wii U needs strong first party titles to sell hardware. It launched with just about all the gaps filled. What it lacked was a steady stream of strong software to make gamers jump in. First party software works better imho because it is exclusive. Nintendo may or may not have the games to really gets sales going over the next 6 months. It is getting many of the third party games that will be released too and even some multiplats the PS4 and X1 are not getting. It will also have third party exclusives and the games not exclusives will have exclusive features. There will be very little gaps in the lineup over the next 6 months.

Actually, I'd argue that it is something of a failure in this one. Yes it's true it sold near 100 million units and that certain titles did amazingly well on it. But it's also true that we've never before seen such a turn around in sales and image. Microsoft and Sony both managed to catch up very well and in some territories are actually overtaking Nintendo. This is unprecedented. Usually a market leader stays that for the generation by a significant margin.

Then the image of the Wii. In hardcore circles it turned into a laughing stock, in casual circles no one cares any longer. So instead of expanding their markets they ended up shrinking it significantly, which is also a reason why the Wii U is in the position it is. And it's also a reason why I think things will not turn around for them. They're still hopelessly disconnected from their (ex-)fanbase and casuals are not coming back since they got a nice Ipad/pod/phone now.

tl;dr
The Wii had massive success on a short term basis, but long term it may prove to have actually wrecked Nintendo's home console business.

I love when someone tries to blame the Wii for the the Wii U failing. First of all the Wii was never treated like the console leader by the industry so its no surprise that the consoles that got the industry leader type support actually were able to catch up in sales in some regions. This was helped by the Wii having more traditional life cycle as far as when sales peak and start to decline while the PS3/360 both had very slow starts and delayed peaks. Of course Nintendo and just about every other publisher only released about 2 games a year for it from 2010 onwards and it never got the price drop down to $99 it should have had when that happened.

The Wii U is where it is at now because Nintendo fucked up the launch in a major way. The reveal was mess, all the E3's it had were a mess, there was no build up to the release, there was no steady stream strong software to sell, the price is too high, the name is confusing, and people almost a year later are still not sure what it is or not care.
This far removed from the Wii.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm sorry but even if Nintendo turns the Wii U around to GC sales it will still be a failure. Less of a failure sure, but still a failure. The level of sales the Wii U is at right now worldwide isn't just something that is magically fixed by a few first party games unless those games become CoD level succeses. The system is selling less than 100k a month worldwide right now. It's selling worse than Vita did 8 months after launch and while Wii U probably won't languish at that level it's not likely to maintain a high level of success either even if it miraculously manages to start selling over 100k a month in the US, Nintendo can't sustain a platform by themselves without relying on a miracle. So yes I really don't think it's too early to start calling WiiU a failure. The PS3 is still a failure with all the money it lost and marketshare for Sony. Being a failure doesn't mean you can't have fun with a device, but if people didn't have such low expectations right now if anyone told people how Wii U would be doing right now and how the future looked 3rd party wise I doubt anyone would disagree

 

[ymmv]

I'm sorry but even if Nintendo turns the Wii U around to GC sales it will still be a failure. Less of a failure sure, but still a failure.

It will actually be more of a failure. The development costs of a Wii U game are much higher than a GC/Wii game. Selling the same amount of games on the Wii U as on the GC will mean far less profit.

If Wii U hw/sw sales remain as they are Nintendo should cut their losses and put their development teams on 3DS games that are cheaper to make and sell more copies. But I doubt they'd want to do that out of stubborn pride. (The same thing goes for Sony with the Vita BTW)

 

[metalslimer]

It will actually be more of a failure. The development costs of a Wii U game are much higher than a GC/Wii game. Selling the same amount of games on the Wii U as on the GC will mean far less profit.

If Wii U hw/sw sales remain as they are Nintendo should cut their losses and put their development teams on 3DS games that are cheaper to make and sell more copies. But I doubt they'd want to do that out of stubborn pride. (The same thing goes for Sony with the Vita BTW)

I meant less of a failure than it is right now on track to sell like 10 million units with a healthy lifespan.

 

[xJavonta]

Put it on consoles people actually have and you'll probably make a profit.

I really wanted to play it, but not enough to drop $300 on a Wii U with no other compelling exclusives released for it.

Maybe once all the E3 titles are released, sales on the Wii U will pick up and ZombiU might see some more sales too.

 

[Rashid]

Bollocks, man

The game was great. Put a sequel out on consoles that people actually own and you might be pleasantly surprised.

Well, what do they call it? ZombiU 2 on an xbone? ZombiOne 2? All sorts of issues.

 

[SolarPowered]

Well, what do they call it? ZombiU 2 on an xbone? ZombiOne 2? All sorts of issues.

They can pull a Dark Souls. Just make it a spiritual successor that hits current gen, next gen consoles and the PC.

 

[Interceptor]

You do exactly what's harming them and what needs to be changed the most. No system can survive without third-party support, no one ever did. If you believe what you're doing is helping them, you're delusional.

Reading posts like this just confirm my idea that Nintendo needs to change their direction and target a new userbase because their current userbase are only there to play Nintendo games, the big IP's, and anything else. This is a dangerous cycle of diminishing returns and if they not release new experiences or introducing new people to the franchises you have and for third-party games on your system, then your numbers can only go down.

Hmm you just read what you want to read hm? I said I BUY them for Nintendo stuff. I never said I buy only Nintendo games. Hell I even bought the zombiu bundle and it's my favorite survival horror game in a decade. But yea, I guess I am part of the problem.

the real problem is people that only read what they want to read and then are jumping to conclusions.

 

[ahm998]

I don't know why many company complaining about Wii U !!

Did Ubisoft forget this and how it is selling?

 

[fart town usa]

I don't know why many company complaining about Wii U !!

Did Ubisoft forget this and how it is selling?

lol