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Resident Evil HD Remaster confirmed for PS3/PS4/360/XB1/PC
- Thread starter Mpl90
- Start date
JonathanPower
Member
Even if it looks bad it does not mean it was upscaled. It may just be the limit of the source material. I mean, a shitty texture will still look shitty even at 4k.
I'm not talking about the texture, I'm saying it's clearly visible that it is upscaled from a lower resolution background image
JonathanPower
Member
It's the same. A shitty background will still look shitty even at 4k. If the source asset is created poorly, bumping the resolution will just make its flaws even more evident.
Again, that's not what I'm talking about, it isn't the same.
There's a difference between models with low res textures rendered at 1920x1440, and models with low res textures rendered at 640x480 upressed to 1920x1440
JonathanPower
Member
That is my point. The lower quality of some of the backgrounds does not mean they were necessarily upscaled from lower resolution images.
Yes, but "lower quality" isn't a binary quantifier. There can be specific things about something that give it a lower quality look, and some of the backgrounds look lower quality because they look upscaled, and other examples look lower quality because they're not great texture work on sharper looking models.
Backgrounds like this are definitely upscaled. The door and paintings have very apparent aliasing, and you would not get that kind of aliasing if the renders were of a high resolution. Low res textures or simple mesh geometry would make it look bad in a different way.
I to can't wait to run face forward into walls when trying to run for my life.
Nice to see the train sequence got a lot of loving
Insanely great graphics for 2002.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Is the Wii version REALLY that blurry ?
also, looks like PS3/360 4 : 3 is 960x720 going by the image.
Still, would much rather play it in the full 16 : 9 perspective, scrolling seems to be just fine going by previous videos.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Looking at these screenshots reminds me that while Jill is one of the best character designs of that era of gaming, pre-RE5 Chris is the most boring looking dude of all time.
JonathanPower
Member
Backgrounds like this are definitely upscaled. The door and paintings have very apparent aliasing, and you would not get that kind of aliasing if the renders were of a high resolution. Low res textures or simple mesh geometry would make it look bad in a different way.
This is not a direct feed screen. What you are seeing here are likely the artifacts introduced when they resized the original image. And besides aliasing, upscaling from 640 x 480 to 1080p would also introduce some noticeable pixellization, which I don't see here.
They're trying to avoid the look of scaled up blurry pixels by various techniques (various filters, sharpening, and some parts are probably touched up by hand or redone). And yeah, that isn't a screenshot, but it is a screengrab from an HD video. The real game will look clearer, but not very different from that.
I think this is an even better example:
http://40.media.tumblr.com/df13fcd539a9215b22eb8bb144ef6403/tumblr_na3mznB1dP1tiz823o7_1280.png (REmake)
http://40.media.tumblr.com/101b2680c757f6a0bc219f04a137749e/tumblr_na3mznB1dP1tiz823o4_1280.png (REmaster)
Look at the wall behind Chris. The reflection on the wall is extremely aliased, and you can even recognize the same pixels on both versions.
JonathanPower
Member
It's not that easy. And why going through all that effort to upscale low resolution images, when you can simply render them from the source file and be done with it with no effort at all? We really need to make a comparison with direct feed screens before jumping to conclusions.
plagiarize
Banned
Erm, because they clearly don't have the source files to re-render from.
Because what we're seeing are clearly touched up versions of the exact background images used in the Gamecube version. They've done a pretty good job on some of the backgrounds, but that is clearly what they have done.
We're not jumping to conclusions here. It's apparent. Look at the comparisons. You can see the *exact same* stepping in them. That's as if it wasn't possible to recognize what an upscaled image looks like vs a scene with low resolution textures. Which it is.
The last screenshots linked to are screenshots, not screen grabs from video. If you want even more, here's a bunch I took a couple of months ago, and they're all based on official screenshots:
http://quackfluffy.tumblr.com/post/93881607532/comparisons-of-remaster-with-remake-wii
http://quackfluffy.tumblr.com/post/93882202437/some-more-comparisons-of-remaster-and-remake
http://quackfluffy.tumblr.com/post/94347226792/so-i-decided-to-take-even-more-comparison
http://quackfluffy.tumblr.com/post/94347455577/and-heres-the-remaining-screenshots-i-took
They've done a pretty good job with some of the backgrounds, but it's very obvious majority has been upscaled with minimal work. I imagine they applied the same filters and settings to all backgrounds with a batch operation, and then touched up specific ones which required extra attention.
JonathanPower
Member
So you work for Capcom and know this sure? Because if you don't then yes, you are jumping to conclusions here. And when you say "we" are you talking about other people as well? Because other people here are saying that some backgrounds look upscaled, while some clearly don't.
ResidentDante
Member
Judging by screens I don't think Capcom has the possibility to render the backdrops at crystal clear high resolutions at least. But they may have some screens that are of better quality than the Gamecube/Wii ones, that we don't know.
If they could re-render at 1080p or higher, they would be boasting it like hell with really crisp and clear screenshots.
If they could re-render at 1080p or higher, they would be boasting it like hell with really crisp and clear screenshots.
JonathanPower
Member
So what you are saying is that this jump in image quality is possible with some minimal work.
Well, then we can agree to disagree.
Yeah I think that's the best thing about this release. No more buggy Dolphin playthroughs, and as a person who never owned a GameCube, but almost did thanks to this game, I really look forward to properly playing through this game.
Novum_Veritas
Member
Where is the Dolphin emulation buggy?
Just curious, because I played it very often on Dolphin, and everything worked fine.
I also have played it on original Gamecube, couldn't see any buggy mess.
Jawmuncher
Member
Maybe he kept forcing 60FPS which the game can't do?
Novum_Veritas
Member
Well that would figure because this game was running at 30 fps.
Capcom does not change the fps in the remaster right?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Z order bug is fixed already on 4.0 and forward.
I think Motion Blur is there already too. Nothing you can really do with the 16:9, since the BG were designed 4:3.
Novum_Veritas
Member
One of the reasons I were curious about what have been buggy with Dolphin Emulation, I always use the latest dev. build.
plagiarize
Banned
Some backgrounds have had more work on them than others. I don't need to work for Capcom to know that, I just need to know what the original backgrounds look like. Your gif shows a background that has had more than minimal work done on it, but the person you quoted didn't even suggest that *all* the backgrounds have just had minimal work done on them.
There is clear evidence in front of us of what has been done. We have the start result and the end result, and you don't have to work for Capcom to tell the difference between the backgrounds that have had more work done on them than the ones which have received a simple upscale.
They don't have the assets to rerender the backgrounds. Again, you just need to look at the clear evidence we have to see that.
Looking at this shot I can tell you for a fact that the background has been upscaled, that the contrast has been tweaked and that a sharpening filter has been applied:
For a fact.
There is actually slightly *less* detail in this version of the background than in the original versions.
If they had rerendered them they would look like this:
This angle just happens to be the one area that there has ALWAYS been a high resolution render of from back when the original game came out.
IF they still had the files to rerender the backgrounds from, the backgrounds would have perfect image quality like that shot. There would be no sharpening. No jaggies. No compression artifacts.
They don't still have the files. If they did, and the backgrounds look like they do now, they would have done a terrible job. Since they only have the original backgrounds to work with, I actually think they're doing a good job.
We aren't being negative. We aren't being pessimistic. We aren't jumping to conclusions.
The evidence is perfectly clear.
It's a shame they can't rerender the backgrounds because it would make a massive difference, but I have replayed all of REmake in HD using Dolphin with the original backgrounds just stretched and not retouched, and even that is a good experience. With the retouching, with the 16:9 option (which I won't use, but which it's great to have), with the new controls (which again, I won't touch, but it's great to have) this is looking like the best version of the game we could have hoped for under the circumstances.
Backfoggen
Banned
I think it's obvious that they're upscaling and then going through the game and fixing the spots where it looks the worst. They probably add detail to close to the camera objects etc.
Can somebody explain what´s going up with the controls?
The character moves pretty fast, it looks strange for someone who played the original with the tank controls, which BTW gave the character a better feel of weight.
If they ditched the tank controls, do you have to readjust the direction everytime the camera angle changes?
The character moves pretty fast, it looks strange for someone who played the original with the tank controls, which BTW gave the character a better feel of weight.
If they ditched the tank controls, do you have to readjust the direction everytime the camera angle changes?
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
It's just the scrub game "journalists" playing with the new controls which butcher the animations completely.
Original tank controls are still an available option though.
Thanks. I´ll be playing with the tank controls for aforementioned reasons.
JonathanPower
Member
Sorry but not even the wizards at Capcom can magically create detail that was never there. It's obvious that this was not produced by upscaling a low resolution image. And if by "more work" you mean they had to basically redraw the whole thing, then this would be equal to creating new high resolution assets.
#ControlTypeC4Lyfe
Still waiting for Play-Asia to update when the Asia version drops. This tentative "November" is killing me.
plagiarize
Banned
No.
There is no magic being done. We are only seeing more detail in a handful of the backgrounds and only in specific areas of them. I haven't seen any that have been completely redrawn (though there might be). There is nothing redrawn about the screen I posted, for example. No extra detail there.
Most likely they are taking the upscaled backgrounds and where there is something that looks particularly bad, simply just painting over it. That's why you're seeing spots that are more detailed. But they're just that... spots. Of some of the backgrounds.
Again, look at the two screens I posted. NOTHING in the new backgrounds looks like a high resolution render. Because they aren't. Because they don't have the original assets to rerender from.
If you want to keep hoping they've rerendered from the original assets, I'm not going to bother talking about the clear evidence that demonstrates that your hopes are wrong, because if you're going to ignore clear evidence, then there is no point.
Enjoy your disappointment when you find out that the backgrounds are just upscaled and touched up in the final version.
JonathanPower
Member
That's not at all what we are seeing.
What evidence? You only posted a screen that is not even 1080p. Is that from the final game? Do you know for a fact that this is how the final game will look? Then again, please provide actual PS4 direct feed 1080p screens if you want to make a serious comparison.
So what you are saying is that this jump in image quality is possible with some minimal work.
Well, then we can agree to disagree.
I said majority of backgrounds has been upscaled with minimal work done to them.
plagiarize
Banned
It's one thing to hope for something. It's another thing to keep hoping for it when evidence clearly demonstrates that it's not going to happen.
You think it just might be a coincidence that the screens people have posted show the exact same aliasing as the original backgrounds. Maybe it's just youtube compression artifacts giving EVERY background the SAME aliasing in the majority of every screenshot. That's what you're going with.
I don't need direct feed 1080p screens to show you aliasing from an upscaled 480p background. It's right there. In every screenshot.
When we can *clearly* see that the pre rendered backgrounds have *less* detail on them than the real time elements of the scenes, we know they haven't rerendered the backgrounds.
Or at least we should if we aren't being blinded by hope.
You're right, it's not that easy, and that's why we can easily notice the backgrounds that are upscaled.
My assumption is that they either have higher resolution versions of SOME of the backgrounds, or that they were able to re-render SOME backgrounds but it takes time and either they haven't finished all of them, or they don't have all of the original backgrounds to render out again.
What I do 100% absolutely know is that you can look at the video with Jill and tell without a doubt that at least SOME of the backgrounds are not rendered at the native resolution and are in fact scaled up from a lower res.
I'll even give you an example of me upscaling an image myself using a similar method to what they seem to be doing, and you tell me if you think the one in the video is upscaled.
Here is the original background
Looking at it, you can tell that there is a high detail pattern visible on the lower part of the walls, and you can see that it's aliased because of all of the detail they're trying to fit into such a small space. This evidences that in the original, high quality render, that pattern had much more detail in it and thus, an upscaled version would be able to actually show off what the pattern looks like.
Here is their background, shown in the video (and which is to me very clearly upscaled).
As you can see, the pattern is still a pretty unintelligible mush. Lets compare that to using my own scaling method that's meant to be similar (not identical) to theirs. Keep in mind that my method is inherently lossy, in that there is a step involved that purposely loses some detail to help get rid of the jaggyness and artifacting present in the original backgrounds. Even with that being so, look how similar it is to the new REmaster backgrounds.
And now, the REmaster version overlaid by my upscaling of the original low resolution background.
As you can see, they both suffer from many of the same issues. The mushy, very low detail pattern on the walls, the top right wall section gaining no additional detail, the odd aliasing in the lamp shades inner supports.
That is upscaled, and there is really no denying it.
I just did a full playthrough on Dolphin and if you set everything up right, it is perfectly emulated - bar one single room.
There was one room that I was in where for some reason Jill was not visible on it. It was a very small room, with no enemies and no items, just a small pathway that you walk down only once. Other than that bug, everything else was perfect.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
ResidentDante
Member
I'd think Capcom would be amazing us with super sharp 1080p screens boasting their re-rendered backgrounds if they did.
"oh, they're serious? Let me laugh even harder"
plagiarize
Banned
There is no other solution for providing widescreen, and it's entirely optional. You couldn't just widen the camera angles because in many cases that would clip into walls and reveal things you aren't supposed to see. They were all framed for 4:3, you'd have to have all the assets to rerender from, and you'd have to hand tweak every camera angle in the game to avoid issues.
The game is meant to be in 4:3. They're providing a good option for people who don't want to put up with the black bars. That's the reality of the situation.
Its a good solution to a difficult problem.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah .. not even Blupoint games could do anything else here heh. You can't just manipulate 2D drawings without either skewering them or redrawing them entirely.
no
and hell no
RE4 is a great game, awesome but a crappy RE like the others sequel (5,6 ...)
JonathanPower
Member
Yeah, but you didn't play the final game so you don't actually know whether the majority of backgrounds have been upscaled or not.
Of course he hasn't played the final game, no one has, because the game isn't finished. No one has been talking about the final game dude, we've been talking about the gameplay video they showed off and we're wondering what it holds in store for the final release of the game, if they will be re-rendered out or if many will end up staying their upscaled version which are currently present in the builds they're showing off videos of.