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MormaPope · Feb 19, 2015

Wabba said:
I wouldn't put The Last of Us in a linear category. The story and the progression is linear, but the way you play it is not. But according to the question i think that the market is big enough for different kind of games. I don't want every game to be open world games, but again i want even the linear games to give me choices to tackle the situation in a different manner. Games like The Walking Dead is super scripted but they give me the illusion that it is me that makes the decision.

It certainly is, and I think a lot of games have spoken for themselves. Shit, Telltale is working on four separate linear/dialog focused games at once, in different IPs and brands nonetheless. David Cage is probably working on something, indie games are still incredibly varied and linear storytelling is still very much a thing. Life is Strange has gotten a lot of hype.

Really don't get why The Order is the poster boy for linear, cinematic games, when other games are doing those aspects better and are successful to boot.

KingJ2002 · Feb 19, 2015

Hmmm... my guess is sony knew of the fallout that would come from this game considering their initial release calendar had blood borne come within a week or two... sending a signal that this game would be sent to die.

I honestly believe that this game ... for what it's trying to accomplish as a cinematic experience.. achieved that... but I guess with many titles promising a ton of features it just makes this game look like it's not worth 60 dollars... and it will review poorly.

I still plan on grabbing the title through gamefly and make the judgement call myself if it's worth a complete purchase... or remaining a rental.

Toxi · Feb 19, 2015

Archaix said:
The amount of people who have warped the narrative to say that RAD and The Order are being punished for being innovative is mind-boggling. This is the most bland, riskless, straightforward game you could possibly design. It is so devoid of risk as to make me wonder whether there's actually been a portal opened to another dimension where a paint-by-numbers cover corridor shooter is a brave new voice in gaming. NeoGAF is the center of some singularity puncturing through to that other world and we're seeing this bizarroGAF's discussion about the innovative "Wait here and shoot the guys who walk back and forth for no reason other than to give you a better shot" rooms.

One of the things that shocked me about the youtube walkthrough is how goddamn uninspired the game looks. This is a game about fighting werewolves in Victorian London, and yet 99% of the time it's basically indistinguishable from other third-person shooters. You shoot hordes of braindead human AI with mostly generic weapons in hallways with conveniently placed cover. Sometimes there are stealth sequences with lame QTE kills. There's even that ridiculous red vision effect when you're low on health seen in way too many games.

Bl4ckSunsh1n3 · Feb 19, 2015

meanspartan said:
OT complaining about lack of "professionalism" from reviewers.

I dunno, while I guess some of the mocking in tweets may cross the line a bit, I far FAR prefer that over just handing out a minimum of 8s for being a AAA game.

You can score it a 4/10 without being a giant asshole.

QaaQer · Feb 19, 2015

Steel said:
Really? Linear shooters are still pretty dime a dozen. The campaign of COD/BF, The Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears, wolfenstein, Bioshock, etc. are all very much still relevant.

You cannot see the change to open world + multiplayer centric games?

Only linear single player retail console games in 2014 were Alien Isolation and Wolfenstein.

All I'm saying is that this is not 2010 anymore.

IzzyF3 · Feb 19, 2015

I wonder if any reviewers post their review and came straight to gaf to watch the bloodbath?

If what we see in the trailers is what we get, I think I'll still play it and have fun. I wonder how many people will just watch the game through streams and not play it for themselves though.

Doctor_Thomas · Feb 19, 2015

Jingo said:
in all this 114 pages bashing the game, is there anyone here that already, you know, actually played the game?

I'm playing it right now.

It's not the most innovative game in the world but I'm enjoying it.

Its biggest crime is that it's fairly derivative. I can't comment on length because I haven't completed it, but I can't fault it for being a third person shooter.

ryuken-d · Feb 19, 2015

Deadpool_X said:
Come on, now. I mean, the guy has a bit of a point. Look at the metacritic page for the game. Here you go. It currently sits at a Metacritic score of 65. However, thst number is being vastly inflated by fansites and bloggers, not the sites commonly trusted when it comes to reviews. For as much as some people want to talk about websites having bias against Sony exclusives, they don't want to dismiss Sony fansites that have given the game top-marks.

Ultimately, what you think of the game is up to you, but if metacritic went based on professional sites only, and not fansites, the score would be significantly lower.

Maybe, but I think it would go both ways. I'm sure there are some scores (like 20 or less) that didn't come from professional sites. Unless the game was broken or a complete mess the Order doesn't deserve such bullshit. Nor do we deserve over inflated scores from fanbois.

TsuWave · Feb 19, 2015

ChuChuRocket said:
MetaCritic 64

So even sony cant release it on IGC, what a waste of money. I really like RAD, they made two excellent GOW, but this time too much hope in the director (this Asien guy), sony had better stopped the development. ND Space game was in development canceled, Shu Keep your eyes open.

?????

ShockingAlberto · Feb 19, 2015

Qwark said:
Pushed by who, EA? I've never heard of this before. The initial look of Fuse, Overload(?) definitely looked right up Insomniac's alley. I could see the retooling being forced on them though.

Yes, retooling was pretty obviously forced by EA.

There's even a mission in Sunset Overdrive where evil corporate robots and focus groups are attacking you with slogans like "This looks focused on fourteen year olds, any way we can redesign the characters to appeal to fifteen year olds?"

ArkkAngel007 · Feb 19, 2015

hohoXD123 said:
TB also arrogantly assumes that everyone has the same idea of value as him. He's mostly ok but sometimes can be pretty annoying with stuff like this.

To me, TB is only really good when part of a panel/group discussion. It at least brings out the better parts and leaves out the....snobbish(?) bits.

Alienous · Feb 19, 2015

meanspartan said:
Yes I agree with all of this actually.

My post wasn't trying to make excuses. They fucked up, and it is their fault. But it wasn't because they didn't try or didn't care, at least thats how it seems to me. Seems like they did work hard and give it a ton of love, but they made some crucial design mistakes in the core of the game.

I'm not saying the reviews are unjustified or anything like that. It seems to be a mediocre game by most accounts. Guess I just wanted to show a bit of empathy? I dunno.

In the off chance any RAD guys read this post, you'll get em next time guys, I truly believe that. One artistic misfire should not be the death of a studio, especially a studio behind some great PSP games.

Absolutely. RAD isn't going to roll over and die. Their console debut produced the best graphics we have ever seen on consoles. They have that notch on their belt. And thanks to current technology they don't have to wait 2 years to prove themselves. They can make a DLC pack that shows what they have learnt from The Order: 1886, and they can show people that their next project will improve on that still.

I really do wish them the best of luck, because they are a clearly talented team.

NullPointer · Feb 19, 2015

Steel said:
Really? Linear shooters are still pretty dime a dozen. The campaign of COD/BF, The Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears, wolfenstein, Bioshock, etc. are all very much still relevant.

There's linear and then there is REALLY linear. Reviews seem to say that The Order is more linear than most. At least in games like TLOU, Wolfenstein, Bioshock and others there is a good deal of choice in how to tackle each encounter. What cover to use, what weapons, optional stealth opportunities to use before going loud, what opportunities exist in the environment to exploit, opportunities to set up ambushes, etc.

The demo we all got to see over and over again showcased the lack of options, but there was a consensus at the time that we were seeing the early game and could expect to see things really open up as the game progressed. Maybe it does to some extent, but I don't get that impression from these reviews.

Valentus · Feb 19, 2015

Exile20 said:
Destiny had the multiplayer to back it up.

Single player only games is a harder sell.

Bioshock was a massive seller, everybody give it 10s, and still is single player without MP, and very little replay value.

meanspartan · Feb 19, 2015

Deadpool_X said:
Come on, now. I mean, the guy has a bit of a point. Look at the metacritic page for the game. Here you go. It currently sits at a Metacritic score of 65. However, thst number is being vastly inflated by fansites and bloggers, not the sites commonly trusted when it comes to reviews. For as much as some people want to talk about websites having bias against Sony exclusives, they don't want to dismiss Sony fansites that have given the game top-marks.

Ultimately, what you think of the game is up to you, but if metacritic went based on professional sites only, and not fansites, the score would be significantly lower.

Well, to be fair, Gameinformer and Gametrailers gave it about 8s and are pretty mainstream. I could see this game getting a minority of gamers who really like it despite the majority not being fans.

Gammacide · Feb 19, 2015

Pretty surprised the scores are so low but it sounds like I am going to be having a really fun night and day off tomorrow immersing myself in the apparently luscious atmosphere Which is what I've been craving lately. I also can see myself playing and replaying this just because there will be so much I want to stare at closely and slowly in detail. I love adventure games though so I'm biased towards interesting stories told linearly. My gripes will not be like a lot of people's gripes I imagine.

HMD · Feb 19, 2015

KingJ2002 said:
Hmmm... my guess is sony knew of the fallout that would come from this game considering their initial release calendar had blood borne come within a week or two... sending a signal that this game would be sent to die.

I don't think there's a conspiracy here, it's just stupid to have two exclusives compete with each other.

antitrop · Feb 19, 2015

Valentus said:
Bioshock was a massive seller, everybody give it 10s, and still is single player without MP, and very little replay value.

Are you referring to the one that came out 8 years ago or the one that sunk the studio?

SlasherJPC · Feb 19, 2015

antitrop said:
But are you a part of the inner circle? I'm referring specifically to mainstream game reviewers. My bad for not being clear.

I feel like mainstream game reviewers have different expectations from games than almost anyone else.

Having done youtube for 8 years and now moved into a small site, I'm still not apart of this inner circle. lol I don't think I want to be either. Interesting observation though.

system11 · Feb 19, 2015

Untalkative_Bunny said:
You cannot see the change to open world + multiplayer centric games?

Only linear single player retail console games in 2014 were Alien Isolation and Wolfenstein.

All I'm saying is that this is not 2010 anymore.

Yeah, two of my favourite games from 2014, for exactly the reason that they weren't more open world shovelware. OW is the new lazy design.

Frillen · Feb 19, 2015

Korten said:
A breeding ground for cyncisim and hate, where being excited or happy is actively discourage.

So we should be excited for a mediocre product?

N30RYU · Feb 19, 2015

Someone came up with a clever solution with the game lenght... play it retro mode...

Play it on hard... and if you get killed... just start over.

Famous-characters-Troll-face-Challenge-accepted-140949.jpg

HMD · Feb 19, 2015

TsuWave said:
?????

Pretty sure he meant SMS's $100 million space game.

TsuWave · Feb 19, 2015

Lactose_Intolerant said:
The game reviewers posting shit about the game on social media are pretty bad. It is like every once in a while they think it is acceptable to all dog pile on a game if everyone is in agreement. Then it back to overhyping the next game so they can get more clicks.

Just review the game, we don't need the snarky twitter posts. I have gaf for that.

fully in agreement with this. pretty bad form from them, really unprofessional imo.

joecanada · Feb 19, 2015

Doctor_Thomas said:
I'm playing it right now.

It's not the most innovative game in the world but I'm enjoying it.

Its biggest crime is that it's fairly derivative. I can't comment on length because I haven't completed it, but I can't fault it for being a third person shooter.

Ya your a rare one. I'm ignoring basically every comment in this thread that doesn't start with " I played it "

Mr. Giggles · Feb 19, 2015

meanspartan said:
This is a review thread.

Except for people who got their hands on it earl, or in cases where the embargo is after the release, this is exactly what review threads are.

Yup. I've been lurking GAF for a while and review threads are usually very posted on.

This one has a little more fire in its belly though.

JAYSIMPLE · Feb 19, 2015

joecanada said:
Except most of them do that already. I bought cod aw since it seemed a step in right direction. ... Based on impressions.
Mp is unplayable due to lag, hit detection.
sp boring as hell
In short played two days, now it's a coaster. I don't even have to look up reviews to know it probably scored 8 s

Edit - but if reviews are getting tougher in general I don't have a problem they just seem random

Just because you didn't like AW doesn't mean the majority of people may have liked it. I think it's great and I am naturally a fan of cod. Great technical achievement for these consoles

ChuckNyce · Feb 19, 2015

M.Prashanth said:
Driveclub was poorly received by most gaming outlets, yet the game has surprised the heck out of me. It's been my most played game since December 2014. But did I get it at launch? No actually since I wasn't sure if the game's car handling would suit my taste. So many in GAF kept saying the racing is fun, the handling is fun, but I was still not convinced. Then the weather update went live, Amazon was generous enough in offering the full game as a digital download for $39 and I decided to immediately jump on board. Can't believe how much fun and intense the racing aspects of Driveclub is, despite the game not featuring nitro/turbo/takedown type stuff which I love from non GT/Forza based racing games. Races are all intense, fighting against your own best time, competing on community challenges have all been crazy levels of fun and challenging. And Evolution deserves a lot of support and praise as they are continually improving the experience by releasing free cars, tracks, gameplay and visual enhancements.

Thus I have a strong feeling I am going to enjoy The Order 1886 as well!

I won't go into details but this is pretty much my line of thinking as well. I LOVE Driveclub despite it's horrid critical reception (admittedly some of which was likely due to the servers being on fire at launch).

I personally have no idea if The Order is a steaming pile of dung or if it'll be a contender for my GOTY 2015, but I do know that after considering the impressions I've read here (from those who have, ya know, actually played it), my expectations for the game (a heavily cinematic 3rd person shooter with gorgeous visuals), and the pros/cons from professional reviews, I'm still down to give The Order a spin.

Your $60 purchase does not need to be validated by others. Judge a game based on your own personal tastes as only you truly know what you do and do not like. Hell my 2014 GOTY, The Evil WIthin, is currently sitting at a 75 on metacritic. Fuck it, bring on The Order.

Jim Sterling · Feb 19, 2015

IzzyF3 said:
I wonder if any reviewers post their review and came straight to gaf to watch the bloodbath?

*Raises hand, kinda*

I tend to check out NeoGAF review threads, just because the reactions can be interesting/entertaining and I'm always into the discussion around videogame reviews.

In this case, though, I wasn't expecting things to go the way they went. I was dreading being something of an outlier and having to deal with the associated baggage that always brings to my front yard. Surprised to see The Order itself was at the center of the carnage.

RoboPlato · Feb 19, 2015

Alienous said:
Absolutely. RAD isn't going to roll over and die. Their console debut produced the best graphics we have ever seen on consoles. They have that notch on their belt. And thanks to current technology they don't have to wait 2 years to prove themselves. They can make a DLC pack that shows what they have learnt from The Order: 1886, and they can show people that their next project will improve on that still.

I really do wish them the best of luck, because they are a clearly talented team.

A standalone $15 companion game like First Light that has a short story, some challenge rooms, and can easily be given away on Plus down the line might be a good route for them to go.

Duxxy3 · Feb 19, 2015

Alienous said:
Absolutely. RAD isn't going to roll over and die. Their console debut produced the best graphics we have ever seen on consoles. They have that notch on their belt. And thanks to current technology they don't have to wait 2 years to prove themselves. They can make a DLC pack that shows what they have learnt from The Order: 1886, and they can show people that their next project will improve on that still.

I really do wish them the best of luck, because they are a clearly talented team.

Honestly if they just made a horde mode and multiplayer expansion that would help out a ton. Small price as DLC ($15-20) and package it into the box in the future.

TheSadRanger · Feb 19, 2015

MaximusPayne said:
really does make you wonder about the hype train that is Bloodborne...

Bloodborne is not going to fail us. From has shown off plenty of the game and it looks amazing. 1886 has had wayyyy more negative buzz before release.

timetokill · Feb 19, 2015

Korten said:
Before the Order OT, finding a positive thread on it was like finding a needle in a hay stack, and there were games before it too.

A lot of people foresaw the issues this game was going to have. Are those people supposed to just keep quiet in favor of positivity? Should criticism of a developer's statements or what they've shown the public be off-limits?

We used to have OTs several weeks before a game came out and they were basically just hype threads where dissent was severely frowned upon. Maybe you miss those days?

Frillen · Feb 19, 2015

Jingo said:
in all this 114 pages bashing the game, is there anyone here that already, you know, actually played the game?

Got the game yesterday. Beat it just a few minutes ago, along with the platinum. That says a lot.

antitrop · Feb 19, 2015

SlasherJPC said:
I'm still not apart of this inner circle. lol I don't think I want to be either.

Unless you've ever sent a resumé to IGN, Gamespot, Polygon, or any of those, I doubt you want to be.

SlasherJPC said:
I have at one time or another. Would I do it again though? Honestly not.

Sure, circumstances change over time.

Japanmanx3 · Feb 19, 2015

SunhiLegend said:

The legend returns.

SkylineRKR · Feb 19, 2015

Steel said:
Really? Linear shooters are still pretty dime a dozen. The campaign of COD/BF, The Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears, wolfenstein, Bioshock, etc. are all very much still relevant.

Are they? More and more ignore the campaign of CoD and BF and jump into MP right away.

Uncharted and Wolf have replayability. TLoU was fun on the hardest mode, but had a reasonably strong MP too. Bioshock Infinite was fun to me to replay in 1999 mode. But it had little filler anyway, most of it was gameplay. These games simply offer more bang for your buck than The Order seems to do, and are less linear to begin with.

MormaPope · Feb 19, 2015

Untalkative_Bunny said:
*console* space, i.e. big retail games. I'm not going to get into a list ware, but iirc we have three main categories now. military multiplayer, sports, and open world w/ rpg mechanics. Most of the releases fit into that, not all, but most.

What does this have to do with how reviewers tackle reviewing videogames? I thought that was the context of what you're saying, that people's tastes have changed over the past few years. Indie games and PC gaming in general continue to grow, shit, B tier retail games have disappeared, anything having to do with the B tier is flourishing on PC.

anexanhume · Feb 19, 2015

Frillen said:
Got the game yesterday. Beat it just a few minutes ago, along with the platinum. That says a lot.

Did you enjoy your time with it?

SlasherJPC · Feb 19, 2015

antitrop said:
Unless you've ever sent a resumé to IGN, Gamespot, Polygon, or any of those, I doubt you want to be.

I have at one time or another. Would I do it again though? Honestly not.

Valentus · Feb 19, 2015

antitrop said:
Are you referring to the one that came out 8 years ago or the one that sunk the studio?

The only bioshock that get 9,5 or 10s for everybody was the first one.

Maxim726X · Feb 19, 2015

Frillen said:
Got the game yesterday. Beat it just a few minutes ago, along with the platinum. That says a lot.

Yikes, one day platinum.

Astral Dog · Feb 19, 2015

116 pages!?
What would happen if Uncharted 4 gets an 87 on Metacritic?

Heartfyre · Feb 19, 2015

Sweep14 said:
The Order still at #7 in Amazon's best seller chart. That doesn't mean everything but still...

Likewise, The Order is actually #1 in the PC & Video Games category on Amazon.co.uk. Similarly meaningless, but interesting.

Exile20 said:
Destiny had the multiplayer to back it up.

Single player only games is a harder sell.

Good point. Multiplayer is an effective way of selling copies. I still think there's a lot of demand for this game, though how much it will meet those expectations is indeed questionable.

il Diavolo · Feb 19, 2015

Honestly this really does remind me of Ryse, which got shat on for being a short and shallow experience as well, although it was also visually stunning. However, I'm one of those who enjoyed Ryse anyways while completely understanding why it was received the way it was.

Although reviews aren't what some hoped they'd be, people buying know full well now what kind of experience they'll be getting when they play it tomorrow. Hopefully most of those people are happy with what The Order has to give, as I was with Ryse. And if RaD are given another shot, hopefully now that the groundwork has been set from a technical perspective they'll be able to deliver a more fleshed out sequel.

Crimsonclaw111 · Feb 19, 2015

Sub Boss said:
116 pages!?
What would happen if Uncharted 4 gets an 87 on Metacritic?

Uncharted 3 review thread redux.

MormaPope · Feb 19, 2015

Jim Sterling said:
*Raises hand, kinda*

I tend to check out NeoGAF review threads, just because the reactions can be interesting/entertaining and I'm always into the discussion around videogame reviews.

In this case, though, I wasn't expecting things to go the way they went. I was dreading being something of an outlier and having to deal with the associated baggage that always brings to my front yard. Surprised to see The Order itself was at the center of the carnage.

Your Deadly Premonition review is one of my favorite reviews in this medium and why I look forward to your reviews, whether or not you enjoy the same shit I enjoy.

Frillen · Feb 19, 2015

anexanhume said:
Did you enjoy your time with it?

Somewhat. Solid gunplay, spectacular graphics, great voice acting. That's about it.

There's absolutely zero replay value. Like, there nothing to do after you beat it. Literally. There's also way to much hand holding and it's super linear.

Alienous · Feb 19, 2015

RoboPlato said:
A standalone $15 companion game like First Light that has a short story, some challenge rooms, and can easily be given away on Plus down the line might be a good route for them to go.

I think so. A 6-8 month development cycle. Focusing on improving on the formula before they commit to their next big project. They have the technology. Hopefully they can push past the reviews and allow them to motivate addressing some of the perceived faults. "Ok, we nailed everything from performances, to graphics, to animation. We're going to create an smaller experience, nail gameplay too, then move onto our next project".

Doug Heffernan · Feb 19, 2015

Ouch.
Those reviews are rough.

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