Wonder if anyone in the previews was informed about the major thing that's never been done before in a game if you import Ground Zeroes into TPP.
Would be cool if say you didn't import the files, the events of GZ never exist in TPP. Kind of feel like deleting my GZ saves the first time playing just to see how it impacts my overall play through.
Looks like there is a whole ton of mixed and misinformation going around, I could see where Microtransaction could be a part of the game in a way that makes sense.
But I would imagine that stuff to be in regards to online aspects and not regular gameplay, I have a hard time believing Kojima would riddle the game with that stuff without thinking it through.
I wish the iDroid app worked for PC, I've been collecting and extracting every soldier I can in every GZ mission in preparation for Phantom Pain.
The OP should update the first post with some of these MGSV features.
Does anyone know if Konami are still going to host an event for reviewers to play the game to completion before release or if this was it in a condensed form? Those were always some heady times for Metal Gear fans. The MGS4 preview event especially coming to mind, seeing Shane get to play the game early and the excitement afterward was very fun to watch.
Kojima not being there is super saddening. Usually these are times for people to get a chance and speak with him after actually playing a good portion of the game and get his opinion. Not wanting the story to be about the turmoils inside Kojima Productions is basically the worst sign about future projects.
This ranking aligns with my tastes quite a bit (although Max Payne style monologues are 2nd for me), but I still dislike tapes more than the codec. I've never been a fan of the near illogical nature of the concept (again, outside of a setting where finding hours of recordings makes sense). Just feels like a cheap way to flesh out something that either should've been shown to the player directly, implied via other means, or left out of the game. It's like story that the devs couldn't be bothered to find a better way to implement, so here it is on a tape that was recording the entire time and didn't get lost, or break, or get found by anyone else.
Oh and they're spread all over the place for you to find because videogames. Or not, maybe you'll just find one on a bench somewhere because Bioshock.
To be honest, traditional Codec conversations aren't great either, but I'd prefer optional ones with some back and forth dialogue to tapes *shudder*
In Ground Zeroes the tapes had pretty solid narrative reasons for existing (even if their locations were gamey). Idk if that will hold true for TPP's use of them, though.
Tapes instead of codec is one of the worst things to happen to the franchise in recent times, agreed. I don't dislike them, but codec was freaking iconic, man. Freaking iconic.
Man.
I'm not thrilled with all this "the cutscenes are shorter and more sporadic than you'd think!" going around, but I made my peace that this was the likeliest scenario literally years ago. My favorite style of presentation -- in-your-face cinematics coming at you from every side -- just doesn't jive well with most gamers, who tell me I should be reading a book instead if I want narrative urgency and frequency so desperately.
In truth though, "more sporadic" is almost a necessity given how much gameplay is being offered on the table here with MGSV. And that's totally fine. Because, yeah, MGSV's gameplay looks aces, just aces, all-around. Can't wait. As for "shorter", well, how much shorter? In any case what I'm hoping for is that toward the end there'll be a marked uptick in cutscene frequency and length and some more linear situations. That'd please me greatly and make me feel better about the game overall. My dream right now is Prologue->Afghanistan "whoa, so big!"->Africa "whoa, so big!"->one or two smaller-scale endgame situations with lots of MGS4-tier story hits.
I need my story hits, y'all.
Digress, though. Other than that + Big Boss being so damn silent (which runs the risk of the story feeling weirdly passive to me, knowing my tastes) everything is the bomb. The game is going to play fantastically and MGO is going to be had by all.
I think the real thing we'll lose with TPP is the sense of adventure.
I've inadvertently gone into a rant here, bear with me.
On some level, MGS games were always Metroidvanias. You progressed through one singular world with one singular high-level objective. In this world were obstacles and road blocks. You had to find new paths, gadgets or use niche abilities to surpass these challenges.
MGS3 had less of this than MG1-MGS2, but still featured one long adventure in one big place. The thread of the adventure was intact and you always felt like you were on one, epic mission.
MGS4 ruined this and ruined the 'legend on an infiltration mission' vibe. We played an old supersoldier who went globetrotting on 5 short, disparate missions. There were no roadblocks. No puzzles. No backtracking to access new areas and crannies.
Peace Walker pushed us even further away from the original 'one location, one adventure' sense of the originals, but it had more depth in terms of using gadgets and abilities to surpass road blocks. It was a nice game, but twisted MGS into a strategy game with tiny 5-10 minute missions.
Phantom Pain... Who knows. I was hoping 'open world' meant we would have one long mission in one gigantic place with nice side missions – like if we were playing MGS1 but with the entirety of Shadow Moses there – but it sounds like we're getting an experience as fractured as Peace Walker – but not as fractured as MGS4. It sounds like there will be plenty of roadblocks and obstacles to overcome in unique ways.
They worked perfectly well in Ground Zeroes. If anything they were better than cutscenes or CODEC convos, because you could overlay them while you were replaying the missions. The gameplay was never broken (and far better for it) because we could listen to dialogue while playing.
Imagine if you could replay MGS2 or 3 but instead of having to sit through/skip the cutscenes you could just listen to them while you enjoyed the deep gameplay you're replaying. It doesn't break the gameplay flow at all, and you still experience the story. Just like audiobooks. This is especially pertinent if you could listen to CODEC calls rather than cutscenes specifically – because there was no reason we couldn't listen to CODEC calls while in gameplay already!
It'll add hours of replayability imo and make sure the story still has insane amounts of depth as MGS stories always do.
I'm super unbelievably happy the long cutscenes are gone. The sign of terrible writing when you can't get things across in a short period of time.
MGS always had really high highs, and fantastic ideas/story structure, but most of the narrative was flawed as fuck. "Telling rather than showing" etc.
Looks like there is a whole ton of mixed and misinformation going around, I could see where Microtransaction could be a part of the game in a way that makes sense.
But I would imagine that stuff to be in regards to online aspects and not regular gameplay, I have a hard time believing Kojima would riddle the game with that stuff without thinking it through.
I wish the iDroid app worked for PC, I've been collecting and extracting every soldier I can in every GZ mission in preparation for Phantom Pain.
Yeah if they had to add mircotransactions they should limit it to cosmetic stuff in MGO, would be the best way to go about it if they must have it in the game. As for Kojima not wanting them in single player I agree I'd have a hard time believing he would put them in, I don't have a hard time believing that Konami would have them put in though.
We don't really know that the story will be any better at conveying itself because the cutscenes are briefer. I get the thinking behind that idea, totally, but there's no way of knowing Kojima won't just come across as rushed with some of his treatment. If people thought he struggled to get to the point in 40-minute sequences then 4-minute sequences might just trip over some points entirely.
Re: people being crazy for complaining about lengthy cutscenes and then backpedaling now that they're out, I've had MGS4 as a top ten game for seven years and counting. If I had ten bucks for every time someone criticized me for "liking a movie LOL" I wouldn't be looking for a summer job right now. I'm sad they're (largely, anyway) gone now but 'tis what 'tis and I'm hopeful the latter portions of the game bring them back somewhat.
As for what's being said about the idea of replaying the earlier games in the series with audio versions of cutscenes, yikes, no way... but I admit that's a me thing. I don't replay these games as often as most of y'all; I only replay games when sufficient time has passed so that the story feels somewhat fresh again. MGS gameplay is wonderful and probably my favorite gameplay in gaming, but it still isn't enough for me to dive back in more than every two years or so.
Still... novel idea, and I totally, totally agree that it'd be great to have MGS2/3 codec conversations move along while I am playing.
Funnily enough, I always found the codecs absolutely destroyed immersion. There's nothing less likely than sitting taking a call and conversing for 4-5 minutes whilst a boss is in the same room as you and aware of your presence.
There was a rumor from someone that attended the preview event, but now is confirmed: the game has microtransactions (http://www.tmag.it/?p=57626).
The italian pre-order's page on the PSN says “Acquisti in-game opzionali”, that in english stands for “Optional in-game purchases”.
I loved the tons of easter eggs in the them and the how they would comment on whatever it is you're doing at the moment. How am I gonna get a moment were the Colonol and Rose are feeling sorry for me because a guard is pissing on my head with these dumb tapes? Stuff like that was what MGS was to me
- Any Outer ops missions, weapon/item upgrades, or modification to the base takes time.
- Want to do things normally? Wait....a lot
- Want this shit now? Pay up bitch
Almost certain the micro-transactions are Konami being Konami. I don't mind that they're there as long as they don't interfere with my personal experience with the game.
In regards to tapes vs codec, i'll admit that i'm going to miss the codec but if I can listen to tapes while tinkering around mother base and customizing stuff I don't really mind. Especially if it's true that driving from one strut to another can take about 5 minutes. Seems like prime time to listen to them. Not to mention that as previews have shown, this is not like GZ where you're constantly surrounded by enemies. I'm sure there will be lots of time to listen to these while not actively engaging with enemies while also not sitting around waiting for them to end.
Sadly micro-transactions shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point. Of course this game was going to have it. The base management stuff sounds like it is right up that alley.
- Any Outer ops missions, weapon/item upgrades, or modification to the base takes time.
- Want to do things normally? Wait....a lot
- Want this shit now? Pay up bitch
- Any Outer ops missions, weapon/item upgrades, or modification to the base takes time.
- Want to do things normally? Wait....a lot
- Want this shit now? Pay up bitch
Have to get the PC version with the hope of modding out microtransactions if the time frame is far too long for each mission. Which is most definitely going to be the case, cause you don't put in microtransactions on a system like this if you're not going to fuck with the length of it to encourage it's use.
So, since I didn't see this mentioned - some news from the other side - a bit more negative. Popular russian blogger posted his preview of MGS5 - http://alogvinov.com/2015/06/2-dnya-s-metal-gear-solid-v-phantom-pain/ . Long story short - while being a big fan of MGS series, he didn't liked it. The core mechanics are good, but he felt like it's more of a modern open world sandbox game and less of Metal Gear Solid that we know - with lots of "cheap" missions like "blow 8 tanks in 12 minutes" and "destroy that tower". And the story is barely here - he only saw 2-3 story event during his time with the game. He completed around 20 missions and was almost done with Africa - which as he heard "from QA" was around 35-40% of the game. He hopes that the story will become more important later.
Now, take this all with a grain of salt though - this guy is kinda famous for putting his emotions first, facts second.
So, since I didn't see this mentioned - some news from the other side - a bit more negative. Popular russian blogger posted his preview of MGS5 - http://alogvinov.com/2015/06/2-dnya-s-metal-gear-solid-v-phantom-pain/ . Long story short - while being a big fan of MGS series, he didn't liked it. The core mechanics are good, but he felt like it's more of a modern open world sandbox game and less of Metal Gear Solid that we know - with lots of "cheap" missions like "blow 8 tanks in 12 minutes" and "destroy that tower". And the story is barely here - he only saw 2-3 story event during his time with the game. He completed around 20 missions and was almost done with Africa - which as he heard "from QA" was around 35-40% of the game. He hopes that the story will become more important later.
Now, take this all with a grain of salt though - this guy is kinda famous for putting his emotions first, facts second.
We don't really know that the story will be any better at conveying itself because the cutscenes are briefer. I get the thinking behind that idea, totally, but there's no way of knowing Kojima won't just come across as rushed with some of his treatment. If people thought he struggled to get to the point in 40-minute sequences then 4-minute sequences might just trip over some points entirely.
Re: people being crazy for complaining about lengthy cutscenes and then backpedaling now that they're out, I've had MGS4 as a top ten game for seven years and counting. If I had ten bucks for every time someone criticized me for "liking a movie LOL" I wouldn't be looking for a summer job right now. I'm sad they're (largely, anyway) gone now but 'tis what 'tis and I'm hopeful the latter portions of the game bring them back somewhat.
As for what's being said about the idea of replaying the earlier games in the series with audio versions of cutscenes, yikes, no way... but I admit that's a me thing. I don't replay these games as often as most of y'all; I only replay games when sufficient time has passed so that the story feels somewhat fresh again. MGS gameplay is wonderful and probably my favorite gameplay in gaming, but it still isn't enough for me to dive back in more than every two years or so.
Still... novel idea, and I totally, totally agree that it'd be great to have MGS2/3 codec conversations move along while I am playing.
I never meant the 'audio versions of cutscenes' as 'removing the cutscenes'. I meant this as an option. Eg you can go into a menu and play cutscene dialogue like a cassette tape, optionally, if you don't want to sit and do nothing while a whole cutscene (you've seen before) plays out.
I agree that the cutscenes were great in many ways, especially in MGS2 and 3 where they were all pretty meaningful. MGS4 had a couple of terrible threads which brought down the cutscenes on the whole, but a lot of it was still good shit. My problems with MGS4 lie mainly with the game's structure and (imo) erroneous game design and mechanic decisions.
Re the story being in short cutscenes maybe tripping over itseld – imo the story already tripped over itself in 30+ minute cutscenes. It's a lesser evil if it does so in 5-10 minute cutscenes.
I loved the tons of easter eggs in the them and the how they would comment on whatever it is you're doing at the moment. How am I gonna get a moment were the Colonol and Rose are feeling sorry for me because a guard is pissing on my head with these dumb tapes? Stuff like that was what MGS was to me
So, since I didn't see this mentioned - some news from the other side - a bit more negative. Popular russian blogger posted his preview of MGS5 - http://alogvinov.com/2015/06/2-dnya-s-metal-gear-solid-v-phantom-pain/ . Long story short - while being a big fan of MGS series, he didn't liked it. The core mechanics are good, but he felt like it's more of a modern open world sandbox game and less of Metal Gear Solid that we know - with lots of "cheap" missions like "blow 8 tanks in 12 minutes" and "destroy that tower". And the story is barely here - he only saw 2-3 story event during his time with the game. He completed around 20 missions and was almost done with Africa - which as he heard "from QA" was around 35-40% of the game. He hopes that the story will become more important later.
Now, take this all with a grain of salt though - this guy is kinda famous for putting his emotions first, facts second.
So, since I didn't see this mentioned - some news from the other side - a bit more negative. Popular russian blogger posted his preview of MGS5 - http://alogvinov.com/2015/06/2-dnya-s-metal-gear-solid-v-phantom-pain/ . Long story short - while being a big fan of MGS series, he didn't liked it. The core mechanics are good, but he felt like it's more of a modern open world sandbox game and less of Metal Gear Solid that we know - with lots of "cheap" missions like "blow 8 tanks in 12 minutes" and "destroy that tower". And the story is barely here - he only saw 2-3 story event during his time with the game. He completed around 20 missions and was almost done with Africa - which as he heard "from QA" was around 35-40% of the game. He hopes that the story will become more important later.
Now, take this all with a grain of salt though - this guy is kinda famous for putting his emotions first, facts second.
It seems like most of the people who reached Africa had done 14 or so missions.
This dude says he had done 20, so he might have just gotten further than most people, so maybe the game starts to indicate that you're done as far as the main story is concerned in Africa, or maybe he asked someone.
He asked Konami people. It states so in article.
He also mentions how uninspiring cutscenes are - lacking choreography and missing camera work - and how cutscenes in trailers don't mesh into game at all.
This news definitely sour my hype for the game. GZ was perfect - it was short, well-executed and to the point with no filler in-between. Now it seems like a drawn-out game for 50 hours with a sparse story.
Re the story being in short cutscenes maybe tripping over itseld imo the story already tripped over itself in 30+ minute cutscenes. It's a lesser evil if it does so in 5-10 minute cutscenes.
Theoretically you'll be able to tap L1 and these things will still happen. CODECS aren't gone per se they're just streamlined
Truncated your message because I-don't-know-why (actually, because I have an ancient laptop that lags a lot and I accidentally deleted half your post and don't wanna dare press back) but anyway, yeah, read the whole thing of course. Gotcha, I see what you mean now.
I'll agree that MGS4 had some highly questionable story threads. It also had some fantastic ones, yeah. It's like the best-and-worst season of a favorite television show. When there's so much good and epic capoff I can kind of forgive the weird wonky "why did this ever, ever happen?" elsewhere.
Battlestar Galactica's fourth/final season is a prime example of this formula for me, if you've ever seen it. (A lot of people who have seen it tend to think of its entirety as Bad News, though, so it's not the most... universal example.)
Anyway, I guess I'm just more willing to embrace the unnecessarily-long than the fairly-brief until shown the final product. Maybe it's got something to do with the brevity of so many other developers when it comes to cutscenes. Most games I play these days, I'm just floored with how frequently I find myself thinking that the cutscenes should have been a bit longer. I'm talking story-driven games here, even. Kojima was like this total grey-area of "well sure, while I'm actually playing MGS4 I sometimes get antsy over how pointlessly glacial cinematic conversations can be, but it's refreshing to feel that way instead of just... blinking and missing cinematics all the time."
I'm ranting for no real reason and I apologize, haha. It's just a really big thing to me re: gaming at-large. I'll stick to hoping Kojima delivers the goods, because one way or another, to varying extents, he always does.
The comparisons to Assassin's Creed Unity are probably apt then.
In Unity you could pay to immediately get access to certain weapons or upgrades – but an hour or two of (usually very fun) gameplay would get you said weapons or upgrades without a payment in sight.
Some people have less time to invest in games, and as long as systems like this aren't forced in your face and down your throat, then it's mainly okay.
I'll agree that MGS4 had some highly questionable story threads. It also had some fantastic ones, yeah. It's like the best-and-worst season of a favorite television show. When there's so much good and epic capoff I can kind of forgive the weird wonky "why did this ever, ever happen?" elsewhere.
Battlestar Galactica's fourth/final season is a prime example of this formula for me, if you've ever seen it. (A lot of people who have seen it tend to think of its entirety as Bad News, though, so it's not the most... universal example.)
Anyway, I guess I'm just more willing to embrace the unnecessarily-long than the fairly-brief until shown the final product. Maybe it's got something to do with the brevity of so many other developers when it comes to cutscenes. Most games I play these days, I'm just floored with how frequently I find myself thinking that the cutscenes should have been a bit longer. I'm talking story-driven games here, even. Kojima was like this total grey-area of "well sure, while I'm actually playing MGS4 I sometimes get antsy over how pointlessly glacial cinematic conversations can be, but it's refreshing to feel that way instead of just... blinking and missing cinematics all the time."
I think the BSG comparison is okay – but the thing with BSG Season 4 is that, imo, only the ending and one or two mid-season episodes could be considered 'flawed'. I actually quite liked the whole thing, though I don't think they executed the end well (good in principle, not in execution).
Whereas in MGS4, there are thick threads of plot and character development from start to finish which just don't work. And the stuff which does work is given just as much of an impetus as the stuff that doesn't.
Personally, I don't think this will be an issue in MGSV. As a principle of good storytelling, making things more minimal and less bloated is always a good way to go. To paraphrase Geralt in The Witcher 3 – "minimum action for maximum effect". This is a principle which is broadly adhered to in all the greatest creative works.
There is definitely a place for longer cinematics, I won't disagree with you there. But I wouldn't call it one of the medium's strengths, and developers certainly need to make sure things work as an interactive experience first and foremost. GZ's and TP's cassette tapes are a great compromise on this.
I don't expect there to be more than 4 'regions' in this game, and if Afghanistan/Africa is 35-40%, that would mean there's 2 other regions.
Also, the 14% completion means nothing without knowing what the context is. The story missions for Peace Walker was only 33 'missions' out of a total of 128 missions. One could complete the story, and probably be at only 50% completion or less.
The lack of choreography and camerawork thing is worrying indeed. Weird and worrying. But I think maybe it stems from Kojima's big single-camera approach thing (or whatever it was); I remember feeling like a couple of bits in GZ (basically, the Chico part especially) were oddly anti-cinematic.
Edit: Wanted to add, re: percentages. Ground Zeroes... complete the main mission and what do you get? Like... 9%? I've always held the belief that Phantom Pain is going to follow a similar route, so 14% at 15 hours hasn't really made me feel like this is some infinitely story-rich experience or anything. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but yeah. So if he's using a blanket term like "35-40% of the game" in regards to how far into the story he is, as it appears he is indeed doing, then 15 hours makes sense to me.
There is definitely a place for longer cinematics, I won't disagree with you there. But I wouldn't call it one of the medium's strengths, and developers certainly need to make sure things work as an interactive experience first and foremost. GZ's and TP's cassette tapes are a great compromise on this.
I was speaking especially of a couple of BSG's fourth-season subplots being odd calls that wound up going nowhere and feeling awkward, yet being surrounded by some pretty brilliant television. But yeah, I get you. (Don't want to go too in-detail on the comparison in an MGS thread, haha.)
Doesn't sound entirely ridiculous. Some games with percentage completion stats can show around 50-65% to actually finish the game with the last 50-35%based on collectables and unlockables.
I don't expect there to be more than 4 'regions' in this game, and if Afghanistan/Africa is 35-40%, that would mean there's 2 other regions.
Also, the 14% completion means nothing without knowing what the context is. The story missions for Peace Walker was only 33 'missions' out of a total of 128 missions. One could complete the story, and probably be at only 50% completion or less.
And I made a follow-up post to what Brazil said the other day saying that "14%" completion is probably doing a handful of missions to C grade or less, ignoring side objectives and side missions, etc. Presumably A grades and S grades count for a significant part of your percentage, like 1-2% at least per mission.
However, Brazil did say he was very thorough, with very high standards, and he was at 14% after 15 hours. He also reached Africa at least. Although I suppose maybe if you double that for Africa that probably is about 30% to finish Africa.
Tapes are basically codec sequences, but without the old 'see faces of those talking.'
Sure, you lose the magic of 'activating a codec sequence in a specific situation', but you gain the benefit of it being replayable at any time.
Also, for those who says that tapes of people talking are unrealistic, codec where you sit in a burning room and talk for 5 minutes is just as unrealistic.
The Russian journalist is the only one who comments negatively on a lot of things the other previews are unanimously positive about. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
So far everything points to an awesome game... Those microtransactions though, really hope it's either like Unity (completely optional and useless after a few hours) or MGO related (XP bonus or whatever). Please don't shove Mother Base evolution behind a paywall.
