StarPlatinumTheWorld
Member
UHD Blu-ray is far better quality than 4K streaming from Amazon and Netflix, I bought the Xbox One S mainly for the UHD player as well as games obviously, would have got the PS4 Pro if it had one.
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
I don't remember specifically which thread but it was stated that the cost for a UHD BD drive is about $15 per unit, not sure how economy of scale affects that. That is a non-trivial amount across millions of units. This is from the company that was so in the red that many people predicted they wouldn't exist anymore by the end of this generation. The same company that used SATA II and 2.4GHz WiFi in their market leading console in 2013. Any costs cut vs potential lost sales is likely worth it to them when the analysis is all said and done.
That was well done by MS. I went and bought a One S the day that they stated they're working on bitstreaming whereas I would have stuck with launch XB1 and PS4 Pro.
Sony has a high end UHD Blu-ray player coming out next year that is not for the mass market it's for high end users & of course they make UHD Blu-rays that's as simple as pressing the movies on the disc but I don't feel like they are fully behind the UHD Blu-ray format because they was working on a 4K disc format that would work on older Blu-ray drives with a firmware update but the format that needed new hardware is the format that hit the market. I censored myself because I was just using an expression & some people don't want to see words like that when they are on a gaming forum.
Why would this matter to Sony as far as PS4 is concerned? If all these cheaper UHD Blu-ray players will be out at normal prices & giving people a place to play their UHD Blu-rays that will mostly be better players than PS4 why should Sony be pushing to break the format? Sony would still be able to sell their 4K content to users even if they don't have a UHD Blu-ray drive in the PS4.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
While it seems that UHD blu-ray is doing alright, it still has a long way to go before it becomes mainstream, if it gets there at all because even now, dvd is still more popular than standard blu-ray and there has been a fall in dvd + blu-ray sales recently, also digital streaming was looking set to overtake physical media in sales this year.
So as much as I would have liked a UHD blu-ray in the Pro too, with digital becoming more popular and UHD blu-ray only a very tiny percentage of the market, it makes sense to save the money instead.
So as much as I would have liked a UHD blu-ray in the Pro too, with digital becoming more popular and UHD blu-ray only a very tiny percentage of the market, it makes sense to save the money instead.
Kaleinc
Banned
Going with your logic why add niche 4k, 720(1080)p is far more popular.
Now that you have an S, does the Pro not having one stop you wanting it? Or do you like me only want one console?
What you fail to realize is that with UHD Blu-ray you are buying a different disc but with PS4 Pro they are still selling you the same disc.
You would have a point if Sony was trying to sell PS4 Pro games & not PS4 games that work on all PS4s.
mitchman
Gold Member
Pretty much all? Samsungs don't have it yet and they are market leaders in sales.
Malcolm9
Member
4K gaming is alot more popular than UHD Blu Ray's, and newsflash, the PS4 Pro is a games machine and it's the best games console on the market. They don't need to add a UHD Blu Ray player to wave their virtual willy about on social media to look relevant.
The Artisan
Member
fuck, that is a valid point. although like Ponn said this is new territory so who knows.
This doesn't really make sense...from what I'm gathering from your post,
Sony says 4K streaming isn't for high end users (since pro includes 4K streaming & therefore isn't for high end users), but 4K blu ray is? And that's why they didn't include it in the pro? 4K is 4K, if Sony boasts the pro as a 4K system then they shoud've went all out with it and included physical 4K media on it too,
considering the fact that, I'm pretty sure, the xbone S isn't supposed to be considered a "high end" console; even though it is an upgrade from the OG xbone including 4K blu ray, it is still the same price as the Ps4 slim. while the scorpio is supposed to be the console for high end users come next year which will likely also include a 4K blu ray player, making 4K blu ray a push for a standard, one that the pro skipped.
fair enough. I guess I can appreciate that.
Exactly, I think not including a UHD Blu Ray drive in the Pro was a huge misstep by Sony, and it's a decision that doesn't make any sense considering the market they're targeting. 4k TV owners are more likely than not to be interested in UHD Blu Ray movies to watch on their shiny new 4K TVs.
I know the One S is extremely popular with the enthusiast market and will probably become even more popular once the update with bitstream support is available. For less than a $100 more than the cheapest UHD player, you get a fully capable media hub with UHD Blu Ray support and a couple of games.
So many concerned over Sony saving money on their own format as opposed to getting more entertainment value and utility for their consoles. Damn. It would have cost Sony less to implement their own developed drives and standards than it does for MS with the Xbox One S where they pay Sony licensing fees to use UHD Blu-ray.
You guys are mistaken on how much the simple inclusion of UHD drives on Xbox One S are moving the console. Everyone who purchases a 4K television is looking at or has bought one because it is one of the cheapest and best options. Even visit a 4k tv for PS4 Pro thread and you have peoplr who don't give two shits about Halo or Gears or MS gaming wanting to pick up an Xbox One S. You can buy more than 100+ UHD discs from Amazon. Netflix has maybe 2-3 4K movies like Ghostbusters or Adam Sandler Netflix original films.
You guys are mistaken on how much the simple inclusion of UHD drives on Xbox One S are moving the console. Everyone who purchases a 4K television is looking at or has bought one because it is one of the cheapest and best options. Even visit a 4k tv for PS4 Pro thread and you have peoplr who don't give two shits about Halo or Gears or MS gaming wanting to pick up an Xbox One S. You can buy more than 100+ UHD discs from Amazon. Netflix has maybe 2-3 4K movies like Ghostbusters or Adam Sandler Netflix original films.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Is it possible to rent 4K movies trough PS Store? If yes, it's kinda obvious why they didn't include a 4K player. It's the same situation as EA Access. They didn't include it because it is "poor value", but we all know that they want us to buy EA games trough their service.
Or, people are just buying the Slim at the same rate they were buying the Xbone last year (which I believe is the case?), and the drive has nothing/little to do with it on the wider scale.
Don't get me wrong, I'd have loved to see a UHD drive in the Pro, I really would. I just think people are attributing far too many sales of the S to its inclusion, in essence doing a disservice to the price, the games and the experience that MS have manage to grind out of the original Xbone launch.
Malcolm9
Member
If you are an enthusiast you'd be better off getting a stand alone player if that's the case, it wouldn't be for the games which are normally at a lower resolution on the Xbox One.
Thats a good question. I've never tried
By that logic, why bother outputting in 4K at all? 1080/720 will be more popular for a long while.
Malcolm9
Member
Because 4K gaming is far more popular than 4K movies right now.
draftingscotch
Member
I have a PS4 and an XBox One, and I just ordered a Samsung KS8000 65" that's on it's way. I also have a capped Comcast internet connection.
Because of my new 4k TV, I want to jump into 4k movies, and since I have a capped connection (and streaming isn't the highest quality anyway), I'll be buying physical discs.
Thanks to Sony's boneheaded decision not to include a UHD drive, my choice of which console to upgrade to 4K has been made VERY easy. With the XBox One S, I'll spend less money, get to play HDR games, AND get a free UHD player tossed in, too.
It's nuts because, before this revelation, I was set on getting the PS4 Pro, since the PS4 is my primary gaming system and most of my friends have one...
Because of my new 4k TV, I want to jump into 4k movies, and since I have a capped connection (and streaming isn't the highest quality anyway), I'll be buying physical discs.
Thanks to Sony's boneheaded decision not to include a UHD drive, my choice of which console to upgrade to 4K has been made VERY easy. With the XBox One S, I'll spend less money, get to play HDR games, AND get a free UHD player tossed in, too.
It's nuts because, before this revelation, I was set on getting the PS4 Pro, since the PS4 is my primary gaming system and most of my friends have one...
Herp Derpington
Member
Do you have proof that streaming 4k is far more popular than UHD? I'd probably say it's just the opposite given the state of broadband in the US. You add a niche function because it's a niche console. It's high end and it's a silly oversight to not include UHD. It is possible to admit Sony screwed up ya know. That doesn't take away from it being a decent mid gen uograde; they just made a mistake. We'll see how much it bites them in the ass by the time Scorpio launches.
uh what? Samsungs have had Netflix HDR for a loooong time.
Malcolm9
Member
How will it bite them in the ass, have you seen how good games look on the Pro which have been patched for it, definitely worth the purchase.
It just comes across incredibly salty people stating they won't touch it as it hasn't got a UHD Blu Ray player, yet buy a console which runs games predominantly lower than 1080p.
Incedible logic.
That's not really equivalent to what you're saying though...
You said 'why include UHD BD since DVD/BD will be more popular for a long time'. I'm saying, in that case why include 4K at all since 1080/720 (gaming OR movies) will be more popular for a long time.
Malcolm9
Member
Because 4K gaming is making it relevant, and if you don't have that then you also get downsampling at 1080p which also looks pretty sweet.
Caayn
Member
You can't even rent/buy movies through the PS store where I live in Europe. Should I be able to?
You know you can just set up an account, say you're in a different region during registration, and hey ho. I buy basically everything through a US account, just buy PSN credit from Amazon to pay for your stuff instead of using your credit card or PayPal.
Except for bragging rights and being able to say I have a 4k blu-ray player it makes zero sense.
I don't want to wear out my system from playing movies. I use it for games and if the drive fails... If history should have taught us anything it's that the moving parts in these consoles don't last forever. There are countless stories of PS2, PS3, Xbox (360) Blu-ray/DVD drives failing to read discs or stop working completely.
How many 4k blu-ray movies are even available? Blu-ray.com shows 152 in it's database. Even if they are available do you own the blu-ray already? Are you going to re-buy that blu-ray? How many times are you going to re-watch it? If it's also on a streaming service you have access to are you going to start up the Blu-ray player and get the disc out or just click play on Netflix (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, ...)? I found myself using Netflix (Apple TV, Chromecast) even if I owned the blu-ray discs.
I just sold all my blu-ray and other media and it's glorious. Blu-ray is far superior in terms of quality to streaming, but it got to the point I didn't care. Accessibility, convenience, and less clutter won me over. I did keep a few anime and The Matrix, but that's it.
Many people don't care about 4k. Does 4k make a bad movie good or more entertaining? I love blu-ray, but I'm fine and happy watching a good movie on my iPad or laptop. It doesn't wreck the experience for me. I can't be alone. I see and hear the same as everyone else.
Who buys a gaming console for a disc drive? That sounds ridiculous. Did people buy a Wii for it's DVD drive?
I don't want to wear out my system from playing movies. I use it for games and if the drive fails... If history should have taught us anything it's that the moving parts in these consoles don't last forever. There are countless stories of PS2, PS3, Xbox (360) Blu-ray/DVD drives failing to read discs or stop working completely.
How many 4k blu-ray movies are even available? Blu-ray.com shows 152 in it's database. Even if they are available do you own the blu-ray already? Are you going to re-buy that blu-ray? How many times are you going to re-watch it? If it's also on a streaming service you have access to are you going to start up the Blu-ray player and get the disc out or just click play on Netflix (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, ...)? I found myself using Netflix (Apple TV, Chromecast) even if I owned the blu-ray discs.
I just sold all my blu-ray and other media and it's glorious. Blu-ray is far superior in terms of quality to streaming, but it got to the point I didn't care. Accessibility, convenience, and less clutter won me over. I did keep a few anime and The Matrix, but that's it.
Many people don't care about 4k. Does 4k make a bad movie good or more entertaining? I love blu-ray, but I'm fine and happy watching a good movie on my iPad or laptop. It doesn't wreck the experience for me. I can't be alone. I see and hear the same as everyone else.
Who buys a gaming console for a disc drive? That sounds ridiculous. Did people buy a Wii for it's DVD drive?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...ve-the-mistake-sony-had-to-make/#ee83fe639b9d
with 81 page and going in this thread, it has probably already been posted, but this article has an interesting theory that even if sony had planned to put a UHD drive in its pro, it may have been in no position to do so...
with 81 page and going in this thread, it has probably already been posted, but this article has an interesting theory that even if sony had planned to put a UHD drive in its pro, it may have been in no position to do so...
JonathanPower
Member
What exactly is the hw missing from the Pro that does not allow it to read UHD discs? If it's just a license issue, Sony could just release an app or something that you can buy to add the UHD functionality.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Their argument was that they didn't include the player because streaming have become more popular, so yes.
ThatOneGrunt
Member
So lets say the PS4 Pro could play UHD's; would everyone here downplaying the feature refuse to use it? You wouldn't even try a UHD movie?
AngelOFDeath
Member
Unless I'm blind, iFixit's teardown unfortunately did not state the Pro's drive, not even if it is the same in the OG (it could be, but no confirmation). If its a different drive, there could be a chance for UHD playback (see Xbox One S teardown for drive model).
Not trying to hope or think anything is different than it already is, but who knows maybe they are holding off support for like what everyone has been saying, because of their standalone players releasing next year. No clue, just trying to make sense of it all
Not trying to hope or think anything is different than it already is, but who knows maybe they are holding off support for like what everyone has been saying, because of their standalone players releasing next year. No clue, just trying to make sense of it all
I'd be willing to bet you 4K streaming will be very very regional. It's not even feasible where I live due to data caps and then there is the why. Why even bother when the quality isn't up to standard and I get better audio on a standard bluray.
Your argument also makes no sense since if they are upgrading from 1080p bluray 4K streaming will just seem like more of the same and not an upgrade. 4K streaming is only an upgrade from regular HD streaming.
In the Playstation teardown video I believe the guy said its the exact same drive as in the PS4.
And a UHD BD player in an iteration of one of the most popular BD players on the market would make 4K movies more relevant, too.
The truth is, Sony wanted to include a UHD player but the timing wasn't right for them. Their big push for the post-BD era will be next year, and they couldn't afford to put a player in PS4Pro if they wanted to get it out in time for Christmas at a palatable price for consumers.*
And that makes sense. It's a perfectly fine business decision to make. But this whole excuse-making on Sony's behalf, trying to swing the "UHD would be pointless, no one wants/uses it" argument.... it's just ridiculous.
Edit: *Read Elandyll's post further up the page for evidence of this (I won't quote the whole thing):
Your argument is no one cares about picture quality so why would these buyers even get a pro in the first place? Or even own a 4K tv? Lol
UHD drives are barely more than bluray drives. Cost isn't the issue.
I can literally guarantee you the same people who bought a 4K tv and are savy enough to buy a pro also care about 4K movies if they like movies in general. They go hand in hand. There wouldn't be a huge outcry if that wasn't the case.
15$ can affect production cost.
True but its not the cost of just dropping the drive in there today. It's the cost of including it when taping out the console 2 years ago. But more importantly than cost, it's just not in Sony's plans to push physical UHD discs this year (as evidenced in the post I quoted in my edit)
Bottom line, Sony could have done it, but didn't want to because reasons. The argument that they didn't include it because it's pointless and no one wants it and somehow they are doing us all a favour is just nonsense.
Caayn
Member
No. I refuse to split my purchases over multiple accounts for one platform. Keeping track of what I own digitally is already a pain in the ass with the sheer multitude of different platforms.
Fair point and I agree with you. But it was an honest question
I wasn't aware that PS store offered movies in other countries.The Artisan
Member
well the pro does 4K streaming, so even though games of course is what it's made for, they clearly wanted to offer 4K media to go with it. it sounds like any way it is explained, the exclusive of 4K blu ray was a mistake.
i'm afraid i don't understand...
It's because the PS3 gutted its own stand alone sales and Sony didn't want that happening again. Game consoles make for cheap movie players. They would rather charge you twice.
Not when you consider UHD sales and volume. Or losing sales to xbone S. To save $15 Sony lost a sale from me, yearly psn sub, digital game money and game sales. So atleast in my case to save $15 they probably lost $300+
You care about movies, i don't. And Sony had a good reason not to break 399$ price point.
Did you not have an Xbone or PS4 before the S?
To counter your anecdote, the PS4 Pro has ended up making me spend £300 on it, £60 on a bunch of games in the sale, £1600 on a new Sony TV and £300 on a new Pioneer HDR receiver.
Sony's mistake from my point of view was not having an HDR capable receiver readily available in the UK when their competitors do, as otherwise I'd have got one of those over the Pioneer.
Had it had a UHD player as well then great, but I'm not that fussed right now. Maybe when Planet Earth 2 comes out on disk I might be but standalone player costs are coming down.
As I said before, largely I think people attributing the UHD drive in the S as the reason for the sales in NA/UK just does a disservice to what MS have accomplished with the rest of the machine and what it offers for the price.
As said earlier, I wish they had put one in as it would save me at a later date buying another bit of kit.
I realize I'm anecdotal but I also know the kind of buyer that buys the pro to begin with. They are the enthusiast buyer. You want as many of those as you can because they tend to spend money. I had a PS4 but when the pro announced with those specs I just built a gaming PC and stand alone player. I won't be back because even if destiny 2 only releases on consoles I'll pick up a Scorpio instead.
I'm pretty bummed about the lack of player. I didn't care much before, but now that I have a 4K/HDR set, I do care.
However, what I need in a UHD player the PS4 would never provide: an HDMI out for 1.4. I can sacrifice loseless audio for games, but I won't for movies. I'm stuck getting a separate player regardless. It is either that or upgrade my receiver, but that's far more costly.
However, what I need in a UHD player the PS4 would never provide: an HDMI out for 1.4. I can sacrifice loseless audio for games, but I won't for movies. I'm stuck getting a separate player regardless. It is either that or upgrade my receiver, but that's far more costly.
test_account
XP-39C²
That fair. If you dont have a PS4 and was very unsure what to get between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One S, and the 4K Bluray player is what made you decide between those two systems, then they might have lost a sale there indeed. On the flipside though, going for that $399 pricetag by keeping the production costs cheaper might also have brought it more consumers as well. In those cases, they would make more money.
EDIT: I see your reply above here. Sounds to me that it was more about the whole package of the PS4 Pro that made you buy a PC and a standalone player istead, not just the lack of a 4K Bluray player, but i might be wrong.
shouamabane
Member
It's still a stunning omission.
The Artisan
Member
but you care about 4K, right?
i'm sure that is what the vast majority of potential Ps4 pro owners care about. how do we know most of them aren't like gatti man?